Guild Wars 2

The amount of condi’s flying around now is out of control. They are applied, I remove, they are re-applied in seconds. And instead of being DOT (damage over time), they are used like burst and melt you down in a matter of seconds.

Playing whack a mole condi removal is not fun. All my utilities need to be condi clear, which of course limits build diversity.

There is no longer a feeling of having the familiar archetype roles anymore. Burst, sustain, support, tank, etc. It’s glass dps/burst or condi/burst, or gt-fo. This is not fun to me and hate to think what it’s going to be like when Revenant comes on the scene.

I’m still not sure about the viability of dedicated condition specs in pvp. Now most teams seem to be running at least 1 fire cele ele and either a shout-cleric guard or an earth cele ele, which all bring a lot of AoE cleanse to the table. Shoutbow seems to be less viable now, so that could help, but I still doubt that terrormancers, burn engis/guards or condi survival rangers will really be that useful in the current metagame.

Condi builds work in low to mid tier, but really are ineffective in top tier due to the burst setups good team compositions are able to do with coordination. Although with the death of shout warriors and staff eles not being around (might change) then you might see more condi builds due to lack of AOE cleanse. Not sure though. Just seems like cele / zerker builds do alot better in top tier.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Condi builds work in low to mid tier, but really are ineffective in top tier due to the burst setups good team compositions are able to do with coordination. Although with the death of shout warriors and staff eles not being around (might change) then you might see more condi builds due to lack of AOE cleanse. Not sure though. Just seems like cele / zerker builds do alot better in top tier.

I doubt it, Shoutbows will be prolly just replaced by ShoutGuards. While Staff Eles were never popular compared to Celestial D/D or D/F Eles who got as much AoE cleanse.

I run a settler fire/water/earth burn ele.

Ring of fire + 2x Cleansing fires = everyone on point dead.

To me, it’s burn that is the problem, until they fix that, I will abuse it.

sephiroth.4217:

I run a settler fire/water/earth burn ele.

Ring of fire + 2x Cleansing fires = everyone on point dead.

To me, it’s burn that is the problem, until they fix that, I will abuse it.

Well the other conditions are kind of under performing so I hope they remind themselves of that before going in a circle.

If they wana fix condi, they should either un-do their broken patch that only helps pve players for some reason….. Or actually introduce a stat that is required for condi classes to function. If I run a power build I need power,precision,ferocity…..condi just needs condi lol. I didn’t care before but if your gunna buff stuff this much especially burning, something needs to change.

DevJD.5483:

If they wana fix condi, they should either un-do their broken patch that only helps pve players for some reason….. Or actually introduce a stat that is required for condi classes to function. If I run a power build I need power,precision,ferocity…..condi just needs condi lol. I didn’t care before but if your gunna buff stuff this much especially burning, something needs to change.

So you want to nerf condi so people can continue to run glassy, non-cleansing builds without repercussion? Condi builds are a hairline away from being completely unviable thanks to shoutwars, Guards and Ele’s in TPvP. My Burn Guardian build actually feels like it’s contributing in 2v2+ scenarios…

Saiyan.1704:

DevJD.5483:

If they wana fix condi, they should either un-do their broken patch that only helps pve players for some reason….. Or actually introduce a stat that is required for condi classes to function. If I run a power build I need power,precision,ferocity…..condi just needs condi lol. I didn’t care before but if your gunna buff stuff this much especially burning, something needs to change.

So you want to nerf condi so people can continue to run glassy, non-cleansing builds without repercussion? Condi builds are a hairline away from being completely unviable thanks to shoutwars, Guards and Ele’s in TPvP. My Burn Guardian build actually feels like it’s contributing in 2v2+ scenarios…

You haven’t been playing much tPvP lately. Shoutbows are out of the meta. You are correct though about eles. That class is OP.

An easy fix which ill be ignored as usual.

Make conditions reduced by Armor. As of now Conditions are BEFORE ARMOR.

TO balance out the insane Condition frenzy, Anet needs to make ARMOR factor in.

This title should be called. Forever BETA 2

desertleaf.5403:

An easy fix which ill be ignored as usual.

Make conditions reduced by Armor. As of now Conditions are BEFORE ARMOR.

TO balance out the insane Condition frenzy, Anet needs to make ARMOR factor in.

If you’re going that route then just make Protection effect Conditions instead of Armor..

Saiyan.1704:

desertleaf.5403:

An easy fix which ill be ignored as usual.

Make conditions reduced by Armor. As of now Conditions are BEFORE ARMOR.

TO balance out the insane Condition frenzy, Anet needs to make ARMOR factor in.

If you’re going that route then just make Protection effect Conditions instead of Armor..

Or why not both? I mean protection is supposed to be the opposite of vulnerability. And vulnerability now affects condi damage.

jportell.2197:

Saiyan.1704:

desertleaf.5403:

An easy fix which ill be ignored as usual.

Make conditions reduced by Armor. As of now Conditions are BEFORE ARMOR.

TO balance out the insane Condition frenzy, Anet needs to make ARMOR factor in.

If you’re going that route then just make Protection effect Conditions instead of Armor..

Or why not both? I mean protection is supposed to be the opposite of vulnerability. And vulnerability now affects condi damage.

Careful, you are about to enter the “Conditions can now Crit” zone.

not seeing much condis man, everyone is running power builds. then a few burn guards and lots of cele eles. power builds too stronk.

Burn should not do more than double the damage of every single hit you take put together. Tone down its initial damage or at least the stacking capabilities, and then tone down how it scales from condi damage. 130 on zerk, 400-500 on carrion with a few might stacks. Per stack.

I thought keeping skills to a particular weapon and blah blah blah was suppose to ‘make balancing easier’. I found Guild Wars 1 more balanced than Guild Wars 2. Condition Damage is off the charts now! It is completely unbelievable! The QA team must not be running good PvP builds, because you can’t last 2 seconds with such condition spam going around. I also have to mention that there are a lot of skills that condition players successfully even while blocking [Traps are perfect example!]

I don’t know about the rest of the PvP players in this game, but I been fighting a lot of players that just run in circles on a cap point, spamming conditions. Yea yea yea sure I can just remove them, but lesbi honest, whats 60 or 30 seconds of a ONE time removal going to do against condi that can be applied every 1 second!

OH wait, warriors can remove 1 condition every 5 seconds with weapon swap — which is the biggest joke! Players can team up and apply conditions faster and more frequently than any removal known to this GAME!

Seriously, this game is really starting to bother me. This by far is the most negatively mind blowing update I’ve seen!

Anet, just play a PvP match for goodness sake! See it with your own eyes. Don’t be afraid to start a ranked match without a team. YOU MUST SEE IT!!!!

ps I dont care if my english is so bad, just know my frustration is coming out. I more stressed playing this game! THANKS ANET! WOW

JUST WOW!

Jayce.5632:

jportell.2197:

Saiyan.1704:

desertleaf.5403:

An easy fix which ill be ignored as usual.

Make conditions reduced by Armor. As of now Conditions are BEFORE ARMOR.

TO balance out the insane Condition frenzy, Anet needs to make ARMOR factor in.

If you’re going that route then just make Protection effect Conditions instead of Armor..

Or why not both? I mean protection is supposed to be the opposite of vulnerability. And vulnerability now affects condi damage.

Careful, you are about to enter the “Conditions can now Crit” zone.

^This is my one true fear.

Just revert burning changes and it resolve all problems. Same formula, stack duration. Now in 90% cases you killed with 100500 burning ticks.

I agree that burning is kinda out of control. But many suggestions in this thread are the same as always. Brought up by people who simply wanna nerf condition damage into oblivion.

The point of conditions is, that they bypass armor and work over time (and to survive that long against power burst builds, they need some toughness). Yes atm they do insane burst damage. But ANet already acknowledged this and will work on tuning condies (and I hope especially burning) down.

Every other suggestion I’ve read hear can be traced back to the 1st week of GW2, where people were unable and unwilling to adapt and still are.

desertleaf.5403:

This title should be called. Forever BETA 2

People want condition damage nerfed into the ground because it goes against the game’s design, plain and simple. This game is about actively attacking and defending. ANET’s goal is to go e-sports, but they haven’t even decided what they want to do with the game. If they want more emphasis on builds rather than actual player skill, then they’re going to need a lot more depth when it comes to traits (not as big as diablo, per se, but much larger than what it is now). If they want more emphasis on player skill, they need to remove the cheese. No RNG sigils and runes. The condition damage stat needs to go. You can’t go from one stealth to another (every stealth is followed by a reveal for 50% or so of the original stealth’s duration. Literally everyone should be rocking zerk or, at most, soldier amulets. This is arena based play, not wvw zerging. More skill shots (great example should be in setting up 100b). Auto attacks need to do less damage. Necros, contrary to popular belief, have not been buffed as hard as people claim. The thing is, though, that they honestly are in a good place, its just that there’s so much cheese flying around that it makes it impossible for them to even hold onto the lime light for even a few seconds.

Tl;Dr

Either we get less cheese in our game and go for some actual skill based gameplay so that the PvP could grow, or we could keep everything super casual and keep the cancerous builds.

Everyone wants condi nerfed when the only problematic one is burning lol. Why else is everyone linking 20k burns and not high damaging bleeds or confusion? :^) Everyone fighting the wrong war when condis barely hold a stick to the insta burst and power damage everyone is pumping. Believe me, I played condi this patch and its WAYY better to just go power necro/war/engie or honestly mesmer anything.

SlayerSixx.5763:

People want condition damage nerfed into the ground because it goes against the game’s design, plain and simple. This game is about actively attacking and defending. ANET’s goal is to go e-sports, but they haven’t even decided what they want to do with the game. If they want more emphasis on builds rather than actual player skill, then they’re going to need a lot more depth when it comes to traits (not as big as diablo, per se, but much larger than what it is now). If they want more emphasis on player skill, they need to remove the cheese. No RNG sigils and runes. The condition damage stat needs to go. You can’t go from one stealth to another (every stealth is followed by a reveal for 50% or so of the original stealth’s duration. Literally everyone should be rocking zerk or, at most, soldier amulets. This is arena based play, not wvw zerging. More skill shots (great example should be in setting up 100b). Auto attacks need to do less damage. Necros, contrary to popular belief, have not been buffed as hard as people claim. The thing is, though, that they honestly are in a good place, its just that there’s so much cheese flying around that it makes it impossible for them to even hold onto the lime light for even a few seconds.

Tl;Dr

Either we get less cheese in our game and go for some actual skill based gameplay so that the PvP could grow, or we could keep everything super casual and keep the cancerous builds.

I agree they need to bite the bullet and remove all passives.

And if they wanted to keep conditions in pvp it needed a much bigger overhaul than this.

@SlayerSixx Crit chance/damage is RNG.

@Loyo Dhuumfire would like to have to have a word with you, also condi ele,guard and somewhat war deserves high burn, I honestly think the around 700 condition damage threshold for efficiency is too low the other conditions are lacking.

The less RNG, the better, right? What’s your point?

SlayerSixx.5763:

The less RNG, the better, right? What’s your point?

You’re showing favoritism by not mentioning crit chance/damage. Raw damage (pure power) and conditions are not RNG based traits may be. It may be just me but if cleansing wasn’t a thing I believe conditions would be easier to balance but right now honestly if you don’t have burning your condition spec is weak except necro. Necro is decent because we don’t focus on stacking conditions instead we transfer,corrupt and weaken.

Dhuumfire is hella weak.

Then go ahead and throw crits in there as well. My statement still stands. I’m sorry, should I also have specifically mentioned the random proc traits too?

SlayerSixx.5763:

Then go ahead and throw crits in there as well. My statement still stands. I’m sorry, should I also have specifically mentioned the random proc traits too?

Don’t bait and don’t show favoritism is all. To completely remove RNG in combat is harder than it seems but that would be ideal.

SlayerSixx.5763:

People want condition damage nerfed into the ground because it goes against the game’s design, plain and simple. This game is about actively attacking and defending.

So? What has the one point to do with the other one? Are you claiming condition damage happens passively?

I agree with your points on RNG. But so far your argument wasn’t conclusive concerning condition damage.

TyPin.9860:

SlayerSixx.5763:

People want condition damage nerfed into the ground because it goes against the game’s design, plain and simple. This game is about actively attacking and defending.

So? What has the one point to do with the other one? Are you claiming condition damage happens passively?

I agree with your points on RNG. But so far your argument wasn’t conclusive concerning condition damage.

Many condition applications are on autos or, yes, passive, if you would believe it. Zealots flame is a great example. Mesmer torch unstealth is another. You lay the condition and assuming its ONLY counter in the game isnt used, you forget about it and let it do its work. Sounds passive to me.

@SlayerSixx:
Conditions on AA is passive now? Interesting. So power damage on AA is passive too I guess. And all AAs have power damage. So following this argument, power damage is even more passive than condition damage, because not all AAs have conditions.

Mesmer Torch #4 has also a delayed power component and blast finisher along with the burning (a whole stack of burning. Can u believe it?). Which, if well used, (for example in conjunction with glamor fields, especially if you use Chaotic Dampening and Staff) is a highly active skill, which requires timing and positioning. Also shatter burst builds utilize the delayed blast/power effect of Torch #4. There is so much to it, if you’d actually know how those things can be used skilfully.

My point is, that you are highly selective and what you claim to be passive condition damage can be said about power damage all the same. This argument has been addressed so many times in the forums already.

Condition damage play isn’t more passive than power damage play. Especially after this update.

EDIT:
I can also easily bring a counter example for the guardian. Look at focus (usually a power build weapon):

• 4# has passive bounces which do power damage along with other effects such as blind —> activate it and forget (in your syntax)
• 5# works similar. Activate it and it will do all the work on its own. Either blocking or triggering a delayed power/burst effect. According to your logic, it is also an activate-and-forget skill, aka: it’s passive.

SlayerSixx.5763:

TyPin.9860:

SlayerSixx.5763:

People want condition damage nerfed into the ground because it goes against the game’s design, plain and simple. This game is about actively attacking and defending.

So? What has the one point to do with the other one? Are you claiming condition damage happens passively?

I agree with your points on RNG. But so far your argument wasn’t conclusive concerning condition damage.

Many condition applications are on autos or, yes, passive, if you would believe it. Zealots flame is a great example. Mesmer torch unstealth is another. You lay the condition and assuming its ONLY counter in the game isnt used, you forget about it and let it do its work. Sounds passive to me.

And down goes your credibility.

ANet should fix burning ASAP but wait it will be fixed in a half year…

I think conditions are fine, and I like the way they’ve changed up the meta. The problem is Burning, and their respective Runes and Sigils. The coefficient is utterly hilarious and out paces every single other damage condition by light years.

How this made it into live is a billion dollar question. How is it possible that something like this (Grenade barrage included) escaped so many minds and ended up in actual servers? Either some knew and allowed it to happen due to lack of foresight, or we give way too much credit to development on this game where it isn’t due.

@TyPin

The main component of an auto is power based damage. Every auto does power based damage. Not every auto does condition damage. I’m not being selective, I’m just not interested in listing out

Every.
Single.
Thing.

If you’d like to have a thorough discussion, we can, but as you’ve stated, this topic was thoroughly covered several times before.

As for the focus skills, the first blind is active and the rest is bullkitten. I don’t think that its fair that I can activate a skill and just run in circles while certain specs (see axe or hammer warrior and necro especially) basically do 0 damage. While lich is overpowered in terms of the damage it deals, it isn’t fair that one guardian can literally face tank it with absolute ease.

Same applies to the focus block. The first block is good and well, but the rest is kitten and the damage burst is even more so. I have no idea how times I would purposely activate the shield before the burst (as I’m sure many guardians do) and basically insta gib my target or drop nearly 15k damage and have them run in circles trying to survive.

I will admit that I am a bit biased to power damage, but I agree that the insta gibbing of power builds and the passive bullkitten of condition builds needs to go. Basically, a complete overhaul. Its fine if you don’t agree with me since its your opinion vs mine, but I’m certain I can find hordes of players that will support my opinion vs yours.

i love how everyone change so fast from direct dmg is op to condi is op next week its direct dmg which is op even tho no new patch

what are condi’s??? I hear alot of people complaining about them but never personally seen one, I play a C-Ele if that is relevant =S

@SlayerSixx:
It is not about listing every single thing. You claim condition damage is passive, while you provide no evidence for it.

You are for active play, and I can understand that. But as it stands: Condition damage is as much or less active as power damage.

I for one am glad condi is finally fixed. It’s about time players needed to think about defense, especially against a class like Mesmer.

TyPin.9860:

@SlayerSixx:
It is not about listing every single thing. You claim condition damage is passive, while you provide no evidence for it.

You are for active play, and I can understand that. But as it stands: Condition damage is as much or less active as power damage.

Except you land a condi skill, burst, rotation, proc and then run around while the damage is being dealt. People hear passive and assume I mean that your very presence starts doing damage (does in some cases).

SlayerSixx.5763:

Except you land a condi skill, burst, rotation, proc and then run around while the damage is being dealt. People hear passive and assume I mean that your very presence starts doing damage (does in some cases).

This you call passive? This is more than misleading. The only difference between power and condition damage is that power damage happens instantly while conditions damage happens delayed (which gives you even time to cleanse it). To apply condition damage you need to be as active as with power builds.

What you call passive are delayed effects, nothing more.

Also your wording sounds like you hit only once and this is enough for the fight. This is inaccurate. You need to reapply conditions to keep the damage up (so running around is not enough). This is the same with power builds, who have to reapply their damage too, to keep the pressure up.

Burn guard literally needs to press three buttons and he wins if you don’t cleanse. Condi mesmer just stacks condis and kittens around in stealth while throwing in the occasional teleport. Condi thief literally has a majority of his bleed come from 1, while pressing 3 when anything gets too close to deal, you guessed it, EVEN MORE condition damage. Seriously. How on earth can you compare this to direct, what with the ridiculous disparity in the types of counters to each type of damage?

SlayerSixx.5763:

Burn guard literally needs to press three buttons and he wins if you don’t cleanse. Condi mesmer just stacks condis and kittens around in stealth while throwing in the occasional teleport. Condi thief literally has a majority of his bleed come from 1, while pressing 3 when anything gets too close to deal, you guessed it, EVEN MORE condition damage. Seriously. How on earth can you compare this to direct, what with the ridiculous disparity in the types of counters to each type of damage?

The strong condition damage needs addressing. ANet themselves have acknowledged that. But we weren’t discussing strength but weather either one (direct vs. condition damage) is more passive than the other.

Condi Guardian bursts currently and Power Guardian bursts all the same. Don’t really see a difference there. But this burning burst will be fixed and then we will need to reexamine those builds.

Have you played condi Mesmer? And I mean viable build? It is more than simply stacking condies and kittening in stealth. Do you know what they do to stack conditions? Do you believe it comes really only from clone and Mesmer AAs?.Should we compare that to PU power shatter now? Which can kitten in stealth and throws the occasional shatter into the mix? How is this more active? Or lets talk PU phantasm build. Where the Mesmer hides in stealth for an extended time and lets his phantasms do considerable damage.

Thief condi build is something that is a thing in WvW roaming and that’s about that. In PvP those cheese builds exist, but honestly are more a joke. And again, let’s compare it to Panic Strike Thief, whose biggest damage comes from #1 too and if they get in trouble they go #5 into #2 and “kitten in stealth”, as you put it.

I also don’t understand your complaint, when a class has conditions on their AA? Again, how is spamming AA to do condition damage any different than from spamming AA to do power damage?

Don’t try to divert the discussion from ‘active vs passive play’ to strength, which – again – ANet admitted is too high.

Because MOST power builds don’t rely on autos for most of their damage…?

Burn guard uses two weapon skills while your average power guard uses three to four plus a utility.

I’m somewhat aware of the specifics, but like most players who’ve played for a while, I KNOW what’s going on, I just can’t place a label to it (although I can if you give me a moment to read the skill names).

Power thief’s biggest damage comes from its autos? I’m sorry, I was under the assumption that a majority of their damage came from backstabbing/spamming stealth. I know they chain some CCs and auto, but this is a candle in a firestorm (I think you’re mistaking air/fire procs for their autos which, surprisingly, aren’t that powerful).

If you haven’t understood by now, I’m complaining that they drop an auto+another weapon skill or two and then run in circles while I die while there’s literally one route I can take in regards to counterplay.

desertleaf.5403:

An easy fix which ill be ignored as usual.

Make conditions reduced by Armor. As of now Conditions are BEFORE ARMOR.

TO balance out the insane Condition frenzy, Anet needs to make ARMOR factor in.

Best suggestion ever! Awesome thinking DesertLeaf

SlayerSixx.5763:

Because MOST power builds don’t rely on autos for most of their damage…?

And most Condi builds don’t either. The very suggestion is ridiculous.

Also, Don’t twist my words. Never said Panic Strike Thief relies on AAs. I said #1. It’s the same with P/D, whose biggest damage actually comes from Sneak Attack (also #1).

It remains: Your arguments are very selective. Focusing on cheese builds (like Condi guard, with broken burning atm. or P/D condi Thief – the latter you even misrepresent), which are both not viable in the long run. Condi guard will be nerfed most likely and P/D Thief is a joke in of itself. Other condition builds, such as Terrormancer or Condirupt Mesmer, have to rely on actively using their skills to get their damage across and survive.

There are lazy power builds, there are lazy conid builds, there are less lazy power builds and there are less lazy condi builds. I have yet to see evidence, that in the broad spectrum, condition damage builds are generally the more passive builds.

I myself play Power and Terrormancer Necro as well as Condi Shatter Mesmer and LockDown Power Mesmer (most I play the latter). And in my experience I need to be very active in all of those builds to actually perform consistently. Slacking on any of those builds and relying on passive effects will let me lose in most cases.

FYI….. Guardians can do 4k – 10 K fire condition per second.

Power builds are not as strong with this New Setup. Condition Builds can run in circles while you burn by 10K fire ( BEFORE ARMOR).

You heard correctly. You can keep chasing with your power builds, or keep shooting with all that effort.

I’ll just get 1 shot of fire in you and ill run my kitten off while you die.

Condition Removal??? Well, Guess again. I can apply conditions way quicker than your 30 second cool down.

THIS GAME IS kitten—-ING BROKEN. Armor needs to factor in Condition damage as the quickest and EASIEST FIX.

FOREVER BETA 2 : CONDI WARS EDITION!

P.S. – Pre-purchased HoT and I got this mess.

1 shot engi wins, simple as that, nothing has ever been more over power’d . People are practicing more ways to get it off so no dodge, no nothing . You take it in the FACE. i quit pvp now . So mad they let this happen

desertleaf.5403:

FYI….. Guardians can do 4k – 10 K fire condition per second.

Power builds are not as strong with this New Setup. Condition Builds can run in circles while you burn by 10K fire ( BEFORE ARMOR).

You heard correctly. You can keep chasing with your power builds, or keep shooting with all that effort.

I’ll just get 1 shot of fire in you and ill run my kitten off while you die.

Condition Removal??? Well, Guess again. I can apply conditions way quicker than your 30 second cool down.

THIS GAME IS kittenG BROKEN. Armor needs to factor in Condition damage as the quickest and EASIEST FIX.

FOREVER BETA 2 : CONDI WARS EDITION!

---

P.S. – Pre-purchased HoT and I got this mess.

Do we play the same game?

Condi build’s can’t run in circle anymore thanks to the nerf in condition durations. Everyone is basically forced to use Balthazar runes because of it, even then, burns don’t last long. They’re suppose to deliver quicker damage than Bleeds.

Necro transfers conditions to enemies
Medi zerk guards have self + team cleanses
Shout guards have lots of team cleanses
Ele’s have numerous self cleanses, not counting their DS trait.
Wars have Stances and self cleanses on adrenaline usage.
Ranger transfers conditions to pets and can be invuln to attacks.
(don’t use other classes)

Tell me, which team are you on that can’t handle burns (not conditions) builds?