Guild Wars 2

This pretty much goes for the whole game, not just PvP. I honestly feel the amount of condi-removal needed to fight condi builds is simply unobtainable. Which leads to the fact that the current amount of condi removal can’t help mitigate the amount of a headache there is fighting condi based builds as power. It’s simply coming down to the classic phrase, “If you can’t beat them, join them”.

tried to evade ?

What professions are you using, OP?

I used to use condi necros like I already knew tomorrow wouldn’t exist

I switched from condi to power for the sheer fact that ive come across condi cleansing thieves, engis, warriors, and ofc guardians, eles, and revs

It seemed like the more I used it, the more people switched to condi cleansing builds

So I’m not sure wym when you say that those builds are too strong, I used to love nothing more than condi bombing tf out of someone and watching them melt

That is no longer the case so I’m not sure what to tell you

Engi, necro can easilly deal with condi. DH can spec to deal with them.

Look at it this way – you fight a power build and you get hit. You take damage immediately and you know how to react to that. All is fine and all is good, even if you die in 2 secs.

With condi, you take LOTS of hits, but you take slower damage, over time (It can still tick high because you get hit with lots of attacks). Keep in mind if this was incoming power damage, you’d ALREADY been dead.
But this is condi… so what do you do here? You cleansed unwisely before so now you get caught with your pants down and suddenly you watch your health slowly degenerate down….and down.. and down… and you get irritated. Then you go to the forum and release your irritation into a “I hate condis” post.

MethaneGas.8357:

Look at it this way – you fight a power build and you get hit. You take damage immediately and you know how to react to that. All is fine and all is good, even if you die in 2 secs.

With condi, you take LOTS of hits, but you take slower damage, over time (It can still tick high because you get hit with lots of attacks). Keep in mind if this was incoming power damage, you’d ALREADY been dead.
But this is condi… so what do you do here? You cleansed unwisely before so now you get caught with your pants down and suddenly you watch your health slowly degenerate down….and down.. and down… and you get irritated. Then you go to the forum and release your irritation into a “I hate condis” post.

That’s not counter play. Saying you have to wait by default to take damage…and then oh you messed up continue to take that same damage is not counter play. It’s Broken by design.

WRONG: You take 19 instances from rev torment in one hit. <——That’s not “slow damage”
Guard: 8+ burns <—-Not slow damage
Mesmer You take 3-4 instances per hit <———Not slow damage.
Necro you take all of the conditions in 1 hit. <——Not slow damage
Warrior same crap <—-Not slow damage
Ranger same crap
Thief you take 3 instances of conditions per hit/application.

How many times do you get to cleanse? maybe 2 or 3 times.
each one removing 1 or 2 conditions.

Either Classes need to be able to clear all conditions with 1 cleanse and need to have their number of cleanses increased by 2.
Or EVERY profession in the game needs to lose access to 2 damaging conditions and 3 non damaging conditions.

I don’t have trouble cleansing condis on a fresh air core ele.

You can also evade the hits ,you know ?

You can dodge obvious setups, or hold your cleanses until they condi-burst. Burn Guard is obvious (torch, fire ring, don’t clump), and Condi Mes as well. Necro can be a bit more icky because of corrupts but try to kite that Shroud.

Sometimes you see a lot of conditions on you but it can be mostly non-damaging conditions or low stacks. It can be tempting to just cleanse immediately but you need to watch for players that count your CD and wait for you to use up your cleanses.

If it’s an outnumbered situation and you feel you might get bombed, it’s okay to leave point, LoS/kite and try not to get hit by conditions.

Condi builds beside meta Condi Mes are fairly squishy and die quickly to focus, so they aren’t perfect.

Taltevus.3289:

MethaneGas.8357:

Look at it this way – you fight a power build and you get hit. You take damage immediately and you know how to react to that. All is fine and all is good, even if you die in 2 secs.

With condi, you take LOTS of hits, but you take slower damage, over time (It can still tick high because you get hit with lots of attacks). Keep in mind if this was incoming power damage, you’d ALREADY been dead.
But this is condi… so what do you do here? You cleansed unwisely before so now you get caught with your pants down and suddenly you watch your health slowly degenerate down….and down.. and down… and you get irritated. Then you go to the forum and release your irritation into a “I hate condis” post.

That’s not counter play. Saying you have to wait by default to take damage…and then oh you messed up continue to take that same damage is not counter play. It’s Broken by design.

WRONG: You take 19 instances from rev torment in one hit. <——That’s not “slow damage”
Guard: 8+ burns <—-Not slow damage
Mesmer You take 3-4 instances per hit <———Not slow damage.
Necro you take all of the conditions in 1 hit. <——Not slow damage
Warrior same crap <—-Not slow damage
Ranger same crap
Thief you take 3 instances of conditions per hit/application.

How many times do you get to cleanse? maybe 2 or 3 times.
each one removing 1 or 2 conditions.

Either Classes need to be able to clear all conditions with 1 cleanse and need to have their number of cleanses increased by 2.
Or EVERY profession in the game needs to lose access to 2 damaging conditions and 3 non damaging conditions.

for the damage conditions do I agree remove all condi with one cleanse skill

Anet please ignore this thread.

Ralkuth.1456:

You can dodge obvious setups, or hold your cleanses until they condi-burst. Burn Guard is obvious (torch, fire ring, don’t clump), and Condi Mes as well. Necro can be a bit more icky because of corrupts but try to kite that Shroud.

Sometimes you see a lot of conditions on you but it can be mostly non-damaging conditions or low stacks. It can be tempting to just cleanse immediately but you need to watch for players that count your CD and wait for you to use up your cleanses.

If it’s an outnumbered situation and you feel you might get bombed, it’s okay to leave point, LoS/kite and try not to get hit by conditions.

Condi builds beside meta Condi Mes are fairly squishy and die quickly to focus, so they aren’t perfect.

Exactly what I used to do, id just stack bleed and use the plague signet on them and hope to panic them to cleanse it, the second they did that’s when Id actually condi bomb them

At that point theyre screwed cause my might stacks are already high.

Its all really understanding other classes and how everything works

And like I said, I switched from condi to power just due to the fact that it seemed like everyother spvp team ran a condi cleanse build and this was just recently

So my thoughts were, what do all of these ppl know that OP doesn’t ?

I play around with more or less condi removal. And it´s not the removal it´s dodging and blocking. I did´t recognize better condi defence using a good cleanse over a good block utility … In fact the block can also absorb CC and power hits … You need cleanses but like stunbreakers two good are usually enough you have to avoid more hits and you can´t survive anything.

Taltevus.3289:

Necro you take all of the conditions in 1 hit. <——Not slow damage

When people say stuff like this, I can’t help but think they have no idea what they are talking about. Sadly, this is how the whole “I hate condi” crowd is. Pretty much just arguing with a brick wall.

actually a necro can bomb with his transfer in one hit … So we come back to block, dodge, blind , …. a power hit can also hit you for 10k … If the necro hits you you propably end up with 2-3k per second …

If you see a necro a with a plague signet save your cleanse if you have some kind of brain.
Or blind the necro.

A condi bomb only hurts if you cleanse and hit aimlessly.

Taltevus.3289:

MethaneGas.8357:

Look at it this way – you fight a power build and you get hit. You take damage immediately and you know how to react to that. All is fine and all is good, even if you die in 2 secs.

With condi, you take LOTS of hits, but you take slower damage, over time (It can still tick high because you get hit with lots of attacks). Keep in mind if this was incoming power damage, you’d ALREADY been dead.
But this is condi… so what do you do here? You cleansed unwisely before so now you get caught with your pants down and suddenly you watch your health slowly degenerate down….and down.. and down… and you get irritated. Then you go to the forum and release your irritation into a “I hate condis” post.

That’s not counter play. Saying you have to wait by default to take damage…and then oh you messed up continue to take that same damage is not counter play. It’s Broken by design.

WRONG: You take 19 instances from rev torment in one hit. <——That’s not “slow damage”
Guard: 8+ burns <—-Not slow damage
Mesmer You take 3-4 instances per hit <———Not slow damage.
Necro you take all of the conditions in 1 hit. <——Not slow damage
Warrior same crap <—-Not slow damage
Ranger same crap
Thief you take 3 instances of conditions per hit/application.

How many times do you get to cleanse? maybe 2 or 3 times.
each one removing 1 or 2 conditions.

Either Classes need to be able to clear all conditions with 1 cleanse and need to have their number of cleanses increased by 2.
Or EVERY profession in the game needs to lose access to 2 damaging conditions and 3 non damaging conditions.

only the OR, the first is going further in the " condi weapon race" in this moments the game have a loot of mass condi removals available, condis to be “usefull” have to became bursty, adding more condi cleans —-→>>condis need to be more bursty and become near instant as it was power dmg, only solution is slow down and reduce condi removal and condi acces to all classes

Honestly I don’t see the big fuss. The only class that can apply a lot of different condi’s at the same time is Necro, and that’s either the condi’s your team put on him or through wells. Kind of an easy counter (if you’re condi, don’t focus the necro out of shroud).

All the other classes either have a burst, so you can watch the stacks on yourself and time your cleanses to take 6+ stacks away, or apply many different ones but not as many at the same time.

As some have said before, this is delayed damage. It seems annoying because it gets you even if they’re running away or downed, whilst power builds could have spiked you down already if you’re caught that much off-guard.

Also ele’s. Ele on your team? Stay near it if they’re playing the support build. Conditions become worthless with an ele on your side.

Taltevus.3289:

That’s not counter play. Saying you have to wait by default to take damage…and then oh you messed up continue to take that same damage is not counter play. It’s Broken by design.

What? If you get hit by a few attacks with power and take 10k damage, that’s fine. But if you take a few hits from condi and take 10k damage over 5-10 secs, all of the sudden that’s broken design? At least condis give you some time to react. You still got hit by a bunch of attacks and you should most definitively pay for it.

Taltevus.3289:

WRONG: You take 19 instances from rev torment in one hit. <——That’s not “slow damage”
Guard: 8+ burns <—-Not slow damage
Mesmer You take 3-4 instances per hit <———Not slow damage.
Necro you take all of the conditions in 1 hit. <——Not slow damage
Warrior same crap <—-Not slow damage
Ranger same crap
Thief you take 3 instances of conditions per hit/application.

19 torment in one hit? Please provide video. I play condi rev sometimes and while it can stack a LOT of torment, it takes a lot more than 1 hit (Maybe you’re referring to Unyielding Anguish? That requires someone to stay in the AoE circle for full 4 secs). And then we get to the problem that Condi Rev has – it has basically only Torment as it’s damaging condi. If you let him stack it on you in a combo and use a cleanse, suddenly all of his damage is gone. You wipe away his whole combo with 1 button or 1 sigil.

Same thing with Guard. While their damage can be really high with burns, it’s just that – a burn. They don’t bleed you, poison, etc. They have only 1 damaging condi and 1 button can cleanse all of it. Suddenly, when they use their full combo and you press 1 button to cleanse all of it… you realize that they’re just one trick poneys that are easily countered.

My main is condi Necro and I’m not sure what you mean but to stack ALL condis on someone, I have to either
1) try pretty kitten hard and it takes much more than 1 button or
2) the enemy has to be dumb and just lets you hit them freely.
Either way, it’s never one button, unless it’s Plague Signet… in which case feel free to blame your teammate for stacking condis on a Necro with Plague Signet.

Anyway…

Taltevus.3289:

How many times do you get to cleanse? maybe 2 or 3 times.
each one removing 1 or 2 conditions.

Either Classes need to be able to clear all conditions with 1 cleanse and need to have their number of cleanses increased by 2.
Or EVERY profession in the game needs to lose access to 2 damaging conditions and 3 non damaging conditions.

Most meta builds can actually deal with condis pretty easily. DHs, Druids, Ele, Thief, , Mes… Warriors… even smart Revs. On top of that, lottttss of cleanse is just AoE so while you may not have much cleanse in your own build for whatever reason, together with your team, you will have a LOT of ways to deal with condis – too much in my opinion… especially with an Ele spamming cleanse left and right.

In short – there’s lots of condis, there’s lots of cleanse.

in the end. Don´t duel mesmer or condi warrior if you are not prepared for it … Necro is possible 1:1 if you bring high preassure and good cc even if you do´t have loads of cleanse (should bring one emergency annyways …)

the reason condi are too strong, is that differently from power build, you cant outkite them. Lets say you eat a power burst, even if you survive at 15% of hp, you can still recover by kiting, block, use your evade frames skills ecc…, cuz to kill you power build will have to hit you again after their burst. Instead, against condi builds, if you eat the burst AND you have not enough condi cleanses, you are gonna die, since condi will tick when you are kiting, and since every farth condi players do, will still apply others little condis!

oh also i want to add that a build that is mean to do dot, should be the one kiting, and not be able to burst. Instead in fact in this game there’s no difference between burst gimmick power builds and condi damage on time, since they both can burst… the only difference is that power build have only a fast hard to land combo then they are done, so they are all in, condi build instead are just forgiving. People keep repeating condi are fine and that is a l2p issue… i just see condi dmg is the real reason for this game failing to be entertaining, just because they are not damage on time….

Shala.8352:

the reason condi are too strong, is that differently from power build, you cant outkite them. Lets say you eat a power burst, even if you survive at 15% of hp, you can still recover by kiting, block, use your evade frames skills ecc…, cuz to kill you power build will have to hit you again after their burst. Instead, against condi builds, if you eat the burst AND you have not enough condi cleanses, you are gonna die, since condi will tick when you are kiting, and since every farth condi players do, will still apply others little condis!

Problem with this biased hypothetical scenario is that the power build doesn’t do enough damage to kill you yet the condi build does. If you eat a sufficient amount of attacks from either damage type you will die. If you get hit by enough attacks that cause you to tick out and die you would have already been downed by a power player.

Being hit by strong attack(s) and taking an instant 6k damage and then kiting to survive is no different by being hit by strong condi attack(s) then taking 1~2k damage over the next 3~6k. Kiting or not the damage has technically already been dealt.

you know why burst condi is so much stronger then burst power in general?

because it’s mostly instant
just like why power thief is so good, because steal backstab is instant burst

burn guard is instant burn burst, condi thief is instant, trap ranger is instant
which is frustrating to play against

And the problem is, it has to be instant or else it doesn’t work. The existence of good condi cleanse on a lot of builds means condi builds need to either be very spammy (condi mes), very bursty (burn guar, condi engi), or both (thief).

Then, these builds completely overwhelm ‘normal’ builds that have an average or poor amount of condi cleanse. Then people come whine about it on the forums.

I’ve said it before. Remove condition removal and rebalance around DoT.

Only way to save people from themselves.

Shaogin.2679:

Taltevus.3289:

Necro you take all of the conditions in 1 hit. <——Not slow damage

When people say stuff like this, I can’t help but think they have no idea what they are talking about. Sadly, this is how the whole “I hate condi” crowd is. Pretty much just arguing with a brick wall.

Too bad I have necro too. You’re attempt at dismissal…only dismissed yourself with that pointless statement.

Read…I didn’t say remove all conditions I offered alternatives. I understand conditions need to be there. Their is no disputing the fact that conditions have been a problem.

HOWEVER it’s these moments when they destroy build diversity theses wave of Condi players emerge. There’s nothing better. Prior Alacrity nerf And the nerf to quickness and some other boon effects on Skills most Mesmers didn’t run moa and didn’t run condition builds. I called that kitten out instantly the second they nerfed Alacrity either all the power mesmers left or they rerolled condition builds.

Taltevus.3289:

Shaogin.2679:

Taltevus.3289:

Necro you take all of the conditions in 1 hit. <——Not slow damage

When people say stuff like this, I can’t help but think they have no idea what they are talking about. Sadly, this is how the whole “I hate condi” crowd is. Pretty much just arguing with a brick wall.

Too bad I have necro too. You’re attempt at dismissal…only dismissed yourself with that pointless statement.

Nice logic. I can only assume you are referring to plague signet, since that is the only way someone could perceive being “condi-bombed” by a Necro in one hit.

However, I assume for the sake of your argument you don’t want to include that for this one-hit wonder combo to work, the necro needs the enemy to unwittingly stack him full of conditions despite being able to clearly see he has plague signet ready.

It requires set-up, it’s not some magic free kill button. But hey, what do I know, you could be speaking of some other mysterious one-button condi combo. But probably not. The whole “Condi OP” crowd usually doesn’t deal with facts or logic and instead likes to over-dramatize things. Sweet comeback though, really got me good. Feeling so dismissed over here.

the only real effective condi build , as list in spvp is mesmer, for all the other 8 profession power builds are better than condi ones so i don’t really see where condi builds are too strong .

All these people defending condi,lol.

Caedmon.6798:

All these people defending condi,lol.

How many condi build do you see in high level except mesmer and some necro ? tell me. … how many condi guardia, condi warrior, condi ele, condi engi , condi thief do you count ? if u play something different than mesmer and you are a little bit good the power version is better . I play condi engi for fun a lot in spvp and in wvw. … ok it is fun but if i want to win I usually take mender or paladin scrapper … and i do the same with mesmer … if i want to have fun i play power, if i want to win i play condi … .give us some numbers instead of complaing on

PierPiero.9142:

Caedmon.6798:

All these people defending condi,lol.

How many condi build do you see in high level except mesmer and some necro ? tell me. … how many condi guardia, condi warrior, condi ele, condi engi , condi thief do you count ? if u play something different than mesmer and you are a little bit good the power version is better . I play condi engi for fun a lot in spvp and in wvw. … ok it is fun but if i want to win I usually take mender or paladin scrapper … and i do the same with mesmer … if i want to have fun i play power, if i want to win i play condi … .give us some numbers instead of complaing on

Condi is broken,its easymode cheese play that people can play with one hand,what more do you want to know ? I main a warri where i also have a condi build thats stupidly broken.Besides where was i exactly complaining ?

Caedmon.6798:

PierPiero.9142:

Caedmon.6798:

All these people defending condi,lol.

How many condi build do you see in high level except mesmer and some necro ? tell me. … how many condi guardia, condi warrior, condi ele, condi engi , condi thief do you count ? if u play something different than mesmer and you are a little bit good the power version is better . I play condi engi for fun a lot in spvp and in wvw. … ok it is fun but if i want to win I usually take mender or paladin scrapper … and i do the same with mesmer … if i want to have fun i play power, if i want to win i play condi … .give us some numbers instead of complaing on

Condi is broken,its easymode cheese play that people can play with one hand,what more do you want to know ?

Can u tell me one build condi easymore cheese ?

PierPiero.9142:

Caedmon.6798:

PierPiero.9142:

Caedmon.6798:

All these people defending condi,lol.

How many condi build do you see in high level except mesmer and some necro ? tell me. … how many condi guardia, condi warrior, condi ele, condi engi , condi thief do you count ? if u play something different than mesmer and you are a little bit good the power version is better . I play condi engi for fun a lot in spvp and in wvw. … ok it is fun but if i want to win I usually take mender or paladin scrapper … and i do the same with mesmer … if i want to have fun i play power, if i want to win i play condi … .give us some numbers instead of complaing on

Condi is broken,its easymode cheese play that people can play with one hand,what more do you want to know ?

Can u tell me one build condi easymore cheese ?

Im talking about condi builds in general,as i just mentioned in my previous post where i said i main a warri where i also have a condi build thats stupidly broken,i already mentioned one besides the fact you know condi mesm is also broken.I dont see the need to go in depth about every class and every condi builds possible.Its all just as easymode.

Just remove resistance and rebalance condition application around that.

Unpopular opinion but
you can take anti-condi runes and sigils if you’re really struggling.
Sure you’re DPS is lower but not dying is better, right?