Guild Wars 2

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

A good example of op condi damage is when condi rev enters the battle and the first second of that fight the rev applies 9 stacks of confusion, 7 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of burning doing 2k-3k damage per second which last for 7s approx.

Another example is how necro can spam every condi in the game especially chill that does a bit too much damage and if the necro takes correct traits it gets full deathshroud (blood magic?) everytime it enters to deathshroud while doing constant damage and tanking huge amount of damage multiple times.

Also conditions all debuff direct damage dealers and doesn’t reduce condition damage. If I would do something to conditions it would either to be 30% damage reduce overall or then make weakness to affect the condition damage as well.

Weakness

Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%. 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage). Stacks duration.

Weakness is a condition that decreases the rate of endurance regeneration and turns half of all hits into glancing blows (that deal 50% less damage). Stacks of weakness increase the duration of the condition. Only stacks up to 5 times.

Conditions should be only debuffs like reverse effect of boon and not debuffs with huge damage.

Anet isn’t going to completely rework conditions mechanically. To be honest, bunkers are easier to play than condition builds. Power builds really aren’t that far off in difficulty either. Build difficulty is just a poor man’s excuse for having the improper build to counter said build variant.

In retrospect, condi builds is not easy to utilize at all amongst the higher tier division teams. It’s actually more difficult to make viable that power builds, believe it or not. We just have too many counters vs a syncronized team comp with condi clears thrown everywhere.

Revs are not condi builds, they’re hybrid built. Don’t put them in the same catagory. Likewise, there’s still numerous offmeta builds that counters condi builds. So if you’re on a team full of zerk or marauder dps builds without a necro, guard, ele, cleansing the team… it’s not that opposing condi guard, necro or rev’s fault for countering you all.

Ur way of describing necros condi application and mechanics are quite vague, as if spoken by someone watching from the outside without knowing whats inside

Saiyan.1704:

Anet isn’t going to completely rework conditions mechanically. To be honest, bunkers are easier to play than condition builds. Power builds really aren’t that far off in difficulty either. Build difficulty is just a poor man’s excuse for having the improper build to counter said build variant.

In retrospect, condi builds is not easy to utilize at all amongst the higher tier division teams. It’s actually more difficult to make viable that power builds, believe it or not. We just have too many counters vs a syncronized team comp with condi clears thrown everywhere.

Revs are not condi builds, they’re hybrid built. Don’t put them in the same catagory. Likewise, there’s still numerous offmeta builds that counters condi builds. So if you’re on a team full of zerk or marauder dps builds without a necro, guard, ele, cleansing the team… it’s not that opposing condi guard, necro or rev’s fault for countering you all.

I wasn’t really talking about condi builds more than sayig that those condi builds that can counter blocks and invulns will skyrocket when bunker amulets are removed.

Currently in top tier everybody uses condi revs because of the high mobility and their conditions passing blocks and embrace the darkness passing even dodges so i guess those aren’t so hard to utilize either.

The main focus tho is on condition damage. Ofc full condition build is a poor build and like you said just a poor man’s excuse for having the improper build to counter said build variant. But if we look at new incoming amulets and look at the condi hybrid builds I have a feeling we might have a problem with these hybrids ruleing the pvp and making everything else not worth to run because of the conditions being too strong on them.

nacario.9417:

Ur way of describing necros condi application and mechanics are quite vague, as if spoken by someone watching from the outside without knowing whats inside

You are correct. This is based on what I have encountered so far after hot release.

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

Also conditions all debuff direct damage dealers and doesn’t reduce condition damage. If I would do something to conditions it would either to be 30% damage reduce overall or then make weakness to affect the condition damage as well.

Good idea.

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

What are you talking about? It takes skill . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

it would be nice.
death sentence to condition spammers!

Blue Hare.8612:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

What are you talking about? It takes skill . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

Wow. This is quite ridiculous.

Too many boons —> Instead of shaving their amount/duration, boons are nerfed.

That’s the laziest approach you can get. It doesn’t fix anything, it’s just a band-aid to cover the mess it has become.

Now, you want to do the same thing with conditions. Oh I’m confident ANet will support this approach 100%. The game will just keep on agonizing to power creep, and becoming more and more difficult and time consuming to shave.

Blue Hare.8612:

What are you talking about? It takes skill . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

Rofl! Gotta love Bik.

I do agree with the thread tho. Anet has been pushing conditions to be more and more equal to power damage. Never seem the term of condi burst be used until june-16 patch and now with those new amulets I am quite intrigued to what will become not only for conditions but in overall but, somehow, doesn’t look too much good.

How many classes have a viable condi build? 2 out of 9? Better nerf all condibuilds then …

UmbraNoctis.1907:

How many classes have a viable condi build? 2 out of 9? Better nerf all condibuilds then …

You are complaining but that’s it.
Condition are kitten for spvp, way more a “full zerk meta”, cause you can spam em and when they land enemy is kinda k i t t e n e d.

And usually a condition build is a tanky one.

Unlike you, I’m not complaining, nor making useless arguments without any justification.

Not a complain yeah… my fault at reading…

Blue Hare.8612:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

What are you talking about? It takes skill . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

look like that ranger it s braindead,just pet on his own kills necro with that build.
Same on other duels too.

When I look at which builds are in meta and which are not, condi doesnt seem to be the problem.

Are there any good pure condi builds at all? So many things just shut them down that its hard for me to imagine complaints like this are real.

displacedTitan.6897:

When I look at which builds are in meta and which are not, condi doesnt seem to be the problem.

Are there any good pure condi builds at all? So many things just shut them down that its hard for me to imagine complaints like this are real.

The meta in NA is 2 condi revs, 2 bunker mesmers and ele. The meta in EU also has 2 revs and at least 1 condi.

displacedTitan.6897:

When I look at which builds are in meta and which are not, condi doesnt seem to be the problem.

Are there any good pure condi builds at all? So many things just shut them down that its hard for me to imagine complaints like this are real.

Only Condi Reaper is good as a pure condi build, but right now, Diamond Skin Tempests shut them out entirely.

Wait you are compaining about 2 classes, one of which doesn’t even make meta and you want a global mechanic change? On top of that you don’t even know how the classes function? I also assume you don’t know how mechanics like block interact with conditions since you say conditions eliminate invuls and blocks. How can I even take this serious?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

displacedTitan.6897:

When I look at which builds are in meta and which are not, condi doesnt seem to be the problem.

Are there any good pure condi builds at all? So many things just shut them down that its hard for me to imagine complaints like this are real.

Only Condi Reaper is good as a pure condi build, but right now, Diamond Skin Tempests shut them out entirely.

Is condi reaper even pure condi? I mean you always have shroud which has some power modifiers and a minor investment of power due to carrion boosted by might and vuln application. Staff isn’t the greatest condi weapon either. Chill of death does a nice chunk of power damage same with locust swarm. I always considered it hybrid a bit more to condi but still hybrid.

weakness definetly should drop condi damage by 30-50% , or condi damage as a whole needs a 30% damage nerf

Tim.6450:

Wait you are compaining about 2 classes, one of which doesn’t even make meta and you want a global mechanic change? On top of that you don’t even know how the classes function? I also assume you don’t know how mechanics like block interact with conditions since you say conditions eliminate invuls and blocks. How can I even take this serious?

Well some condition skills are unblockable and condi revs all the traits and banish enchantment goes through block. Embrace the darkness on condi rev goes through everything even while dodging or invuln.

The Ace.9105:

Tim.6450:

Wait you are compaining about 2 classes, one of which doesn’t even make meta and you want a global mechanic change? On top of that you don’t even know how the classes function? I also assume you don’t know how mechanics like block interact with conditions since you say conditions eliminate invuls and blocks. How can I even take this serious?

Well some condition skills are unblockable and condi revs all the traits and banish enchantment goes through block. Embrace the darkness on condi rev goes through everything even while dodging or invuln.

So power skills have some unblockables as well. The rest seems more like a rev problem not a condition problem. So why need GLOBAL condition damage a nerf?

Tim.6450:

The Ace.9105:

Tim.6450:

Wait you are compaining about 2 classes, one of which doesn’t even make meta and you want a global mechanic change? On top of that you don’t even know how the classes function? I also assume you don’t know how mechanics like block interact with conditions since you say conditions eliminate invuls and blocks. How can I even take this serious?

Well some condition skills are unblockable and condi revs all the traits and banish enchantment goes through block. Embrace the darkness on condi rev goes through everything even while dodging or invuln.

So power skills have some unblockables as well. The rest seems more like a rev problem not a condition problem. So why need GLOBAL condition damage a nerf?

Because all the debuffs are affecting only to normal damage and because condi damage is too close to normal damage currently.

The Ace.9105:

Tim.6450:

The Ace.9105:

Tim.6450:

Wait you are compaining about 2 classes, one of which doesn’t even make meta and you want a global mechanic change? On top of that you don’t even know how the classes function? I also assume you don’t know how mechanics like block interact with conditions since you say conditions eliminate invuls and blocks. How can I even take this serious?

Well some condition skills are unblockable and condi revs all the traits and banish enchantment goes through block. Embrace the darkness on condi rev goes through everything even while dodging or invuln.

So power skills have some unblockables as well. The rest seems more like a rev problem not a condition problem. So why need GLOBAL condition damage a nerf?

Because all the debuffs are affecting only to normal damage and because condi damage is too close to normal damage currently.

And that has any meaning how? Condition damage and normal damage are fundamently so different it is not even funny. For instance I’m still waiting for my power cleanse or power transfer (Oh the lolz that would be) or my power resistance. Different types of damage, different tools to counter.

If certain traits or skills are op or broken, it doesn’t justify the nerf of a whole mechanic, which isn’t even used that much by most classes.

Let’s be honest, many players dislike condi builds for whatever reason and just want this playstyle to be deleted when they talk about “balance”. But balance means, that everything should have its place. Including condi builds.

There’s a lot of conditions in the game, more or less every cele build use both direct and condition damage, but that cele condi damage isn’t so high.

The only Pure condition class I know in sPvP is the Reaper “Frostfire” and is highly countered by conditio cleaner classes (ranger, some old guardians, ele, even the thief can clean a lot of conditions for himself and evade enough condi skills to kill a necro, if good).

The Reaper is also a class that have only 2 “burst” condition skills: scepter 3 and RS 4. Out of that is all low condition damage and every more damage is given by transfer conditions and corrupt boons (that grant only few damage conditions).

The Revenant Mallyx isn’t a total condition build, is more a perfect hybrid that kill you with both direct and condi damage. Mace/Axe for condi and Sword/Shield for direct damage and defence, that’s why is really really strong.

But there’s only 2 classes that really use conditions and only one is in meta!

About conditions I can tell to you how all the people cryed before HoT for the Burn Guardian that wa sable to inflict “insane” burn damage. Do you see any Burn Guardian, now?
A lot of people posted screens where he died after 80-90k of Burn damage, screaming that Burn inflict too much damage, don’t thinking that more damage they need to be killed more slowly they had been killed!

Condition is good but is a lot of time that I don’t see a good player “Bursted” down by condition damage, unless had been focused (but then He will be dead anyway, or ways better if focused by direct damage classes).
The last time I seen a enemy killed fast by my conditions is when a really bad revenant spent all his energy to spam confusion and torment on me, stacking resistance to protect himself. I simply corrupted the Resistance and transfered back all his conditions, with some other cute conditions of myne. But he was really a bad reve.

The Condi damage is high, sometimes really high, and a condition damage class can kill you. Expecially if counter you.
But think if you reduce that damage by 30%. No one will ever play a condition class and you deleted a entire kind of damage from the spvp game.

Actually isn’t so easy kill someone with only conditions why where your skills inflict 8k in 5 seconds your enemy inflict to you 8k in 1 second with direct damage. The direct damage is easier to block/avoid, but is also IMMEDIATE. Not always stronger, but always Immediate. That will make you really burst down someone (think about a good DH, a thief that find you under 50%hp, a good scrapper, the insane damage of a Berserker Hammer Revenant or a shatter mesmer).

They’re Different damage sources and there’s Different ways to ignore/remove/reduce they’re damage.

Protection grant you 33% direct damage reduction, yes, but if you active a Condi Clean Skill when the enemy spam all his conditions you can reduce his damage by 80-90%. And there’s also resistance that help.
And block, blind, dodge, work also against condition skills. (only the necro have staff skills Unblockable if Traited).

Conditions don’t need nerfs at all.

Blue Hare.8612:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

What are you talking about? It takes skill . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

…Lol

For the record burn guardian takes 100x more skill than this… my goodness wha..what happend to you necros…

Bad player doesn’t want to trait or use utilities etc to clear condis, screaming about how broken they are, when the class designed to be the master of condis is not even meta? Guess the noob got killed by some classes he doesn’t play and thinks that they need to be nerfed until they are easy even for bads like him to beat.

The Ace.9105:

Tim.6450:

The Ace.9105:

Tim.6450:

Wait you are compaining about 2 classes, one of which doesn’t even make meta and you want a global mechanic change? On top of that you don’t even know how the classes function? I also assume you don’t know how mechanics like block interact with conditions since you say conditions eliminate invuls and blocks. How can I even take this serious?

Well some condition skills are unblockable and condi revs all the traits and banish enchantment goes through block. Embrace the darkness on condi rev goes through everything even while dodging or invuln.

So power skills have some unblockables as well. The rest seems more like a rev problem not a condition problem. So why need GLOBAL condition damage a nerf?

Because all the debuffs are affecting only to normal damage and because condi damage is too close to normal damage currently.

pretty much this

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

I’d really like to know where this comon misconception about condi being applied through invul and blocks comes from.

You know condi applies when you hit something, right ?

I like you and yes, imo u’re 100% correct! Also protection doesn’t defend vs condis (and prot is everywhere T.T)

chibbi.3706:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

I’d really like to know where this comon misconception about condi being applied through invul and blocks comes from.

You know condi applies when you hit something, right ?

At least condi revs mallyx elite skill pulses conditions through everything while also triggering condition traits that passes through also. It doesn’t matter if you dodge, block, invuln, stealth… the torment from this skill will always apply to you. Also necro and rev has both unblockable conditions. You can test these by yourself if you want.

Obindo.6802:

I like you and yes, imo u’re 100% correct! Also protection doesn’t defend vs condis (and prot is everywhere T.T)

Exactly. The condi damage is too close to normal damage and normal damage has so many things affecting to it.

The Ace.9105:

chibbi.3706:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

I’d really like to know where this comon misconception about condi being applied through invul and blocks comes from.

You know condi applies when you hit something, right ?

At least condi revs mallyx elite skill pulses conditions through everything while also triggering condition traits that passes through also. It doesn’t matter if you dodge, block, invuln, stealth… the torment from this skill will always apply to you. Also necro and rev has both unblockable conditions. You can test these by yourself if you want.

So this is a problem with rev, not conditions.

And only unblockable condi on necro are marks, which besides chillblains are absolutely not heavy hitters.

The Ace.9105:

Obindo.6802:

I like you and yes, imo u’re 100% correct! Also protection doesn’t defend vs condis (and prot is everywhere T.T)

Exactly. The condi damage is too close to normal damage and normal damage has so many things affecting to it.

How about resistance negating all conditions instead of just reducing them by 33% ?

How about condi clears, removing all the burst you just did ?

There are more means to defend yourself vs condi than vs power damage. And this is why condi hits more than power (also because it does damage over time).

chibbi.3706:

The Ace.9105:

Obindo.6802:

I like you and yes, imo u’re 100% correct! Also protection doesn’t defend vs condis (and prot is everywhere T.T)

Exactly. The condi damage is too close to normal damage and normal damage has so many things affecting to it.

How about resistance negating all conditions instead of just reducing them by 33% ?

How about condi clears, removing all the burst you just did ?

There are more means to defend yourself vs condi than vs power damage. And this is why condi hits more than power (also because it does damage over time).

I guess we could rework protection to affect condi damage and remove resistance. Also what comes to cleansing use weakness and protection to tank normal damage.

Conditions applied before invuln procs do damage while normal damage doesn’t. Traits and runes all reduce only normal damage. Only exceptions are the engi and rev trait but those also affect normal damage as well.

Then there is also toughness that reduces normal damage.

Protection is already a very powerful boon. No need to buff it even further. Builds shouldn’t be good against everything with such low investment.

An alternative could be, to reduce the efficiency of current resistance from 100% to something lower (30-50% maybe) and make it more aviable to some classes. It shouldn’t be as spammable as protection currently is.
Btw, nerfing protection uptime could be a reasonable way to indirectly nerf condibuilds (by buffing power dmg), without introducing more powercreep.

Edit: Some runes reduce condi duration.
If you use block/invuln after getting hit by direct dmg, it won’t reduce this dmg afterwards.

Most complaints about condis refer to specific skills/traits/builds (sometimes justified, sometimes not), yet many want to nerf all conditions, while ignoring the fact, that many condi builds are quite underwhelming currently.

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

A good example of op condi damage is when condi rev enters the battle and the first second of that fight the rev applies 9 stacks of confusion, 7 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of burning doing 2k-3k damage per second which last for 7s approx.

Another example is how necro can spam every condi in the game especially chill that does a bit too much damage and if the necro takes correct traits it gets full deathshroud (blood magic?) everytime it enters to deathshroud while doing constant damage and tanking huge amount of damage multiple times.

Also conditions all debuff direct damage dealers and doesn’t reduce condition damage. If I would do something to conditions it would either to be 30% damage reduce overall or then make weakness to affect the condition damage as well.

Weakness

Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%. 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage). Stacks duration.

Weakness is a condition that decreases the rate of endurance regeneration and turns half of all hits into glancing blows (that deal 50% less damage). Stacks of weakness increase the duration of the condition. Only stacks up to 5 times.

Conditions should be only debuffs like reverse effect of boon and not debuffs with huge damage.

NO, just no! Horrible suggestion!

How many times I got to say this… You cant balance the whole game around necros or others If their condi was out of control, then you hurt other classes and specs!

Just nerf those said classes, If they are to op! And I dont agree condi is out of control in this game, at all!

chibbi.3706:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

I’d really like to know where this comon misconception about condi being applied through invul and blocks comes from.

You know condi applies when you hit something, right ?

I don’t think that was the point. If you’re loaded with condis and then go invulnverable, you’ll still take damage from the condis. Doesn’t work for power damage, obviously. In a way conditions ignore invulnerabilities.

Laraley.7695:

I don’t think that was the point. If you’re loaded with condis and then go invulnverable, you’ll still take damage from the condis. Doesn’t work for power damage, obviously. In a way conditions ignore invulnerabilities.

Invulnerabity ignores the current hits, that’s all it does. There is no difference between power or conditions. The DoT nature off conditions just messes with the timing of people. If you die through condies when invulnerable, you would have been dead by power before you activated it in a similar situation.

The point here is that if your team faces a team with 2-3 necros and 2-3 condi revs you almost certainly lose that match with a comp like 2x druid or druid ele + dps rev + scrapper + bunker mesmer just because the amount of conditions is too much and they do too much damage. Also condi builds need 1 stat for their damage and they can focus on building survivability while dps needs 3 stats to be effective.

The Ace.9105:

The point here is that if your team faces a team with 2-3 necros and 2-3 condi revs you almost certainly lose that match with a comp like 2x druid or druid ele + dps rev + scrapper + bunker mesmer just because the amount of conditions is too much and they do too much damage.

Again class problem, not mechanic problem.

Also condi builds need 1 stat for their damage and they can focus on building survivability while dps needs 3 stats to be effective.

Condi builds have different stats to boost its effectiveness: condition damage, expertise/condition duration and depending on trait setup precision. Second is that stats aren’t the only investment: traits, skills, rune effects , sigils, … are all possible investments for power or condi. Lastly even if there more options to invest in power then condi doesn’t mean that condi is more powerfull, it could just mean that power has a higher damage ceiling.

Tim.6450:

The Ace.9105:

The point here is that if your team faces a team with 2-3 necros and 2-3 condi revs you almost certainly lose that match with a comp like 2x druid or druid ele + dps rev + scrapper + bunker mesmer just because the amount of conditions is too much and they do too much damage.

Again class problem, not mechanic problem.

Also condi builds need 1 stat for their damage and they can focus on building survivability while dps needs 3 stats to be effective.

Condi builds have different stats to boost its effectiveness: condition damage, expertise/condition duration and depending on trait setup precision. Second is that stats aren’t the only investment: traits, skills, rune effects , sigils, … are all possible investments for power or condi. Lastly even if there more options to invest in power then condi doesn’t mean that condi is more powerfull, it could just mean that power has a higher damage ceiling.

But still at the moment stacking conditions is way more efficient way to do damage in pvp compared to normal damage.

The Ace.9105:

Tim.6450:

The Ace.9105:

The point here is that if your team faces a team with 2-3 necros and 2-3 condi revs you almost certainly lose that match with a comp like 2x druid or druid ele + dps rev + scrapper + bunker mesmer just because the amount of conditions is too much and they do too much damage.

Again class problem, not mechanic problem.

Also condi builds need 1 stat for their damage and they can focus on building survivability while dps needs 3 stats to be effective.

Condi builds have different stats to boost its effectiveness: condition damage, expertise/condition duration and depending on trait setup precision. Second is that stats aren’t the only investment: traits, skills, rune effects , sigils, … are all possible investments for power or condi. Lastly even if there more options to invest in power then condi doesn’t mean that condi is more powerfull, it could just mean that power has a higher damage ceiling.

But still at the moment stacking conditions is way more efficient way to do damage in pvp compared to normal damage.

Nope.

Most dps build in PvP right now are power or hybrid.

Condi rev and necro are the only classes which can deal with the insane amout of boon spam of current meta (bunker) builds. It has absolutely nothing to do with condis generally being superior to direct dmg.

And if a pure necro/rev condi comp would be better than anything else, as you claim, why isn’t this comp used by all pro teams? (Actually no serious team uses a pure condi comp).

Please, stop ignoring the fact, that the majority of condibuilds suck as much as the majority of powerbuils (maybe even more).