Guild Wars 2

I know this has been mentioned before, but i feel the need to mention it again in case the devs missed it.

Apart from the fact that it has no counter 1v1, the only counterplay is to outrotate the said build. Unfortunately for me, my team mates feel the need to 2/3v1 said build on home node every game.. Unsuccessfully. I really can’t do much alone or even with a friend when that happens.

Let’s also bring up the fact that most defensive amulets were removed to prevent bunker builds from dominating like in S1. All in all, such a build shouldn’t even exist tbh. At the very most, if it’s going to be a bunker build, at least make it not be able to dish out damage (like paladin guard) and just be able to hold a node. Cheers.

DH and warrior can beat that build 1v1 and scrapper can stalemate it.

I’ve seen some top 50 players easily handle maygi’s thief but most people can’t do it.

Honestly I’d like to see it nerfed just because it’s so infuriating trying to time your stuns in those small evade frames when you have 300 ping.

Simplest way to beat a condi thief spamming evades on the point: get off the point and make him cap it. Seriously. He’s a sitting duck and you can pot shot away while he recognizes his mistake. Sure it gets your point decapped but you just cap it right back and you get 5 pts for your trouble.

No need to balance here.

Sigh… people have seriously already forgot the counter to this? So much misinformation everywhere. Not once have I even see anyone mention retaliation this season. Seriously, there are so few match ups dagger/dagger condi thief wins, it’s hilarious.

there are plenty of non kittens that either stalemate or farm maygi when he pushes far. for example pretty much any esl player, naru snaffled hitzer mone jeff mobs edison are the people that i can name off the top of my head or have played with recently. the only person ive seen straight up die 1v1 to maygi was kittening halfdevil lmao

I love when people see a D/D condi thief wipe their team and they go to the forums to complain

Claiming that top players can beat Maygi with x build is a moot argument. I agree that there are builds that can stall d/d condi evade but beating it when played properly? Nada.

I can twist it around and tell you to 1v1 Kronos on a node when he’s using d/d condi evade. You’ll never win regardless what you use.

Alphabet.7392:

there are plenty of non kittens that either stalemate or farm maygi when he pushes far. for example pretty much any esl player, naru snaffled hitzer mone jeff mobs edison are the people that i can name off the top of my head or have played with recently. the only person ive seen straight up die 1v1 to maygi was kittening halfdevil lmao

I love this arugment

“Four guys in the entire game, and the best of the best at that can beat it. It’s fine!”

Lol XD

Evade frames and ping is a legit complaint btw. It’s like fighting someone in the dark. You know they’re there, but hitting them is a… stab in the dark.

ReaperJr.5967:

Claiming that top players can beat Maygi with x build is a moot argument. I agree that there are builds that can stall d/d condi evade but beating it when played properly? Nada.

I can twist it around and tell you to 1v1 Kronos on a node when he’s using d/d condi evade. You’ll never win regardless what you use.

Killing them is not about build, it’s about getting a daze / stun / grab / pull at the end of dodges. But as stated before you are better doing something else than fighting a d/d thief

Well timed burst destroys the build. The simple fact you have frames where you are SOL if you get attacked is the balance.

I personally don’t agree with the build though

Alphabet.7392:

there are plenty of non kittens that either stalemate or farm maygi when he pushes far. for example pretty much any esl player, naru snaffled hitzer mone jeff mobs edison are the people that i can name off the top of my head or have played with recently. the only person ive seen straight up die 1v1 to maygi was kittening halfdevil lmao

Tfw she’s beaten all these people at-least once. Nevertheless this build isn’t invincible, everyone needs to just adapt and learn how it works. DH, Warrior, Scrapper, Staff Acro/ Any type of Acro Teef will all counter it.

So what does everyone think is a legitimate nerf/buff/fix for this build?

In my opninion, the best fix would be to remove the evade from D/D skill 3, up the condi application on it by quite a bit (so that it turns into more of a condi-burst if you land it multiple times), possibly increase initiative cost and heavily decrease the after-cast of the skill. This would give D/D a legitimate condi bomb and actually allow it to 1v1 (b/c lets be real, if you don’t play with high ping and know when to land your bursts, you eat this build for breakfast, lunch and dinner) but give it plenty of counterplay since it wouldn’t be able chain high amounts of evade frames together.

Vault on staff could stand to have the same applied to it as well.

I honestly don’t know why people are complaining so much. I’m not a “top player” and I’m willing to bet I can beat the d/d evade spam build on any class.

There are so many counters to it, but most people seem to think it’s OP just because they decide to sit on the point and tank the damage while spamming their skills hoping to hit the thief.

Ranged damage and kiting. Just don’t stand underneath them and they do no damage. If they are trying to take a point and you are standing off point shooting them they will go down fairly quickly.

GladConcept.4650:

I honestly don’t know why people are complaining so much. I’m not a “top player” and I’m willing to bet I can beat the d/d evade spam build on any class.

There are so many counters to it, but most people seem to think it’s OP just because they decide to sit on the point and tank the damage while spamming their skills hoping to hit the thief.

So how much are you willing to bet? Im willing to put 300g on the line.

Or just stick condis on it and stop attacking. . .done.

ReaperJr.5967:

So how much are you willing to bet? Im willing to put 300g on the line.

So grab your d/d evade thief.

GladConcept.4650:

ReaperJr.5967:

So how much are you willing to bet? Im willing to put 300g on the line.

So grab your d/d evade thief.

Hmu in game. We’ll arrange it there.

It’s not just condi thief it’s all acro staff.
The main problem is acrobatics lines crazy synergy with daredevil creates crazyyyy evade up time which is broken not relevant in top tier matches and is all around just a troll build used by 1v1rs and trolls to trigger the community.

I agree Jeff, but you can’t balance the game around the 1%.

The simple fact is, builds whose skill-floor is SO LOW they effectively boost a player’s “apparent skill,” (i.e., they can compete in tiers far above what their mechanical skill would otherwise allow) should be looked at and adjusted.

Same reason hambow got the nerf-bat a couple years ago. Was it OP vs “top-tier” players? Of course not, those players will always learn to play around fotm builds anyways.

But we see this stuff happen every time some OP build is discovered! Try to think of a player who had single digit winrate until turret engi was discovered. They were probably seen around high-tier matches a lot of the time. Add them to your friend list now; I gurantee you they’re stuck in gold or silver.

How can you ever equalize hambow with that thief build? Hambow warriors were literally everywhere and it was highly effective. While I’ve met like 3 or 4 dd condi thieves on the whole way from low bronze to high gold. And I’m sure these guys are autists. There is no way someone will play this build for a long time if he is not an autist. It is sooooooo boring. I don’t have right words to tell you how exactly boring it is.

Arcaedus.7290:

So what does everyone think is a legitimate nerf/buff/fix for this build?

In my opninion, the best fix would be to remove the evade from D/D skill 3, up the condi application on it by quite a bit (so that it turns into more of a condi-burst if you land it multiple times), possibly increase initiative cost and heavily decrease the after-cast of the skill. This would give D/D a legitimate condi bomb and actually allow it to 1v1 (b/c lets be real, if you don’t play with high ping and know when to land your bursts, you eat this build for breakfast, lunch and dinner) but give it plenty of counterplay since it wouldn’t be able chain high amounts of evade frames together.

Vault on staff could stand to have the same applied to it as well.

the evade is what makes d/d possible, regardless of condi or power. I say remove the bleeds altogether and put them in a traitline.

I think it would be best to raise the bleeding stacks on death blossom to change it from an attrition skill to a burst skill. Maybe from 3 to 9? Remove the evade frames and lower cast and aftercast time. I want condi thf to still exist.

Welcome to HoT off+def same time spam.
You will have your great time to feel the pain.

Acandis.3250:

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Alphabet.7392:

there are plenty of non kittens that either stalemate or farm maygi when he pushes far. for example pretty much any esl player, naru snaffled hitzer mone jeff mobs edison are the people that i can name off the top of my head or have played with recently. the only person ive seen straight up die 1v1 to maygi was kittening halfdevil lmao

Tfw she’s beaten all these people at-least once. Nevertheless this build isn’t invincible, everyone needs to just adapt and learn how it works. DH, Warrior, Scrapper, Staff Acro/ Any type of Acro Teef will all counter it.

Is that seriously your defense? Come on.

First of all just because she’s “beaten those people at-least once,” doesn’t mean she beats them regularly. In fact, it’s the opposite, maybe once in a while she’ll catch them with low CDs, or they make a mistake, but from what I’ve seen, the people listed 1v1 that build with 90%+ efficacy.

Does it have counterplay? Yes.
Should a person that spams 1 button, occasionally pressing 3-4 others, have that much success with it, despite having 0 awareness? No.

I don’t think the build needs to be gutted, there are certainly other builds out there that are clearly designed for vegetables (DH), but you can’t sit here claiming that win games with d/d condi thief = good at game. The build very clearly needs adjustment.

You’re a cool dude and all, but you must be watching her stream with drunk-goggles or something, because all I see is someone who would struggle to earn victories in gold-tier, if they played a build that wasn’t so stupidly busted.

I get she’s your friend and what not, but if I see someone who has very little feel for the game’s PvP mechanics but is being very successful despite that, it desperately screams OP build.

Just because I said, “she’s beaten them once” isn’t my only defense lol. What I mean is that the reason why she makes it work is because she knows the match up and has knowledge of the other classes. Sure she might not be able to beat those players consistently, but she is the only CONSISTENT one to beat them.

I’ve seen at least 20 people who have attempted this build and die in less than 20 seconds. Ex: Aunt Susan

The difference is knowing match ups, ADAPTING.

It has counter play, it’s just people aren’t willing to learn how to play other things. I’m not saying it’s not broken, because it is still easy to pick up, but along with all the other meta builds. The build is only as good as the person playing it. The build needs adjustments mainly in acro, but there are alot of things in this game that needs more fixing. I’m not claiming d/d condi winning games = good at game? Where was that stated. I just said you need to adapt.

It’s a strong build, but it has counters. Adapt friends, it needs a Nerf probably, but not to be gutted. I agree with what you’re saying, but i’m not defending the build. I’m just saying people need to understand how it works.

Basing placements based on a stream is kinda far fetched. Just because you haven’t seen someone played a “meta build” or something else that’s optimal doesn’t determine where they would place. If she got this far using this build, it shows a lot on the mechanical level of our region. People aren’t forced to play “meta builds” , and even the meta builds are meta because they’re more optimal. Does that make them not busted? No? More skillful? No, nearly everything has busted mechanics, but honestly it’s just knowledge of how the builds work. Not defending builds, but just stating this out here.

Just because she’s my friend, doesn’t mean i’m defending the build. I agree with a lot of issues.

Just my two cents.

It definitely resembles the turret engi, only its not a strong build, its a troll build. It baits bad players REAL hard. I’d say the real counter to this weak build is letting go of ur ego.

But I dont believe you should be able to get to legend by literally spamming dodges and evades, or pushing far off respawn, regardless of how numerically weak the build may be.

For example, another class that likes to fulfill that same role is Mesmer, far pusher wanting to get outnumbered. Look at how mechanical a Mesmer must play to hold a 2v1, now look at this d/d thief. Notice anything? The difference in input is astonishing. If a mesmer were to put as little input into the fight as this d/d thief, he would die within the first 8-10 seconds.

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Alphabet.7392:

there are plenty of non kittens that either stalemate or farm maygi when he pushes far. for example pretty much any esl player, naru snaffled hitzer mone jeff mobs edison are the people that i can name off the top of my head or have played with recently. the only person ive seen straight up die 1v1 to maygi was kittening halfdevil lmao

Tfw she’s beaten all these people at-least once. Nevertheless this build isn’t invincible, everyone needs to just adapt and learn how it works. DH, Warrior, Scrapper, Staff Acro/ Any type of Acro Teef will all counter it.

The way to beat a thief is bring another thief or some equally broken class like warrior.

“We didn’t like BM ranger having so many dodges or vanilla thief having feline grace, so we nerfed them; and then we decided for the xpac to give that version on steroids to one class while upping its damage and mobility to boot.”

if u think condi evade thief has no counter u havent seen a good symbolic DH

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

if u think condi evade thief has no counter u havent seen a good symbolic DH

And clearly no one has brought up DH’s or warriors as being problem classes either.

It’s not fun when 3 classes are so vastly ahead of the rest.

I don’t get condi evade problems, they feel like an annoying fly to me if anything.

I mostly play Ele, Dh, War, Necro and Mes though, all are very efficient in dealing with Condi evades. I’m also an Aussie player, so I have a 300 ping and generally about 25 FPS, still don’t have an issue with them.

Ele is ele and will cleanse without even trying.
Dh is the same.
Warrior is the same, just f1 and berserkers stance.
Necro has marks and transfers, so transfer and DON’T attack the thief. Can’t evade, can’t cleanse.
Mes clears condi from shatters, you could also trait from glamour and null field, that really screws up their game.

I am not defending the build (it is probably one of the stupidest things produced by HoT) but can someone actually tell me how it is any different from current warrior or DHs meta builds? They have even more point presense than thief, as much if not more survuvability, just as low skill floor. Why do i not see you crying for nerfs for those classes? Why are they fine?

As far as counters go, i can deal with those thieves just as fine scrapper or necro. As thief (i play dp) i would have to give up point ew a bit but 1-2 burst is usually enough to finish those thieves off.

Cynz.9437:

I am not defending the build (it is probably one of the stupidest things produced by HoT) but can someone actually tell me how it is any different from current warrior or DHs meta builds? They have even more point presense than thief, as much if not more survuvability, just as low skill floor. Why do i not see you crying for nerfs for those classes? Why are they fine?

As far as counters go, i can deal with those thieves just as fine scrapper or necro. As thief (i play dp) i would have to give up point ew a bit but 1-2 burst is usually enough to finish those thieves off.

We’ve seen plenty of threads about DH and how brain dead easy it is so it’s kind of been done to death but by all means open another thread. Berserker is also stupid but we see less posts about that, the few I’ve seen have all talked about nerfing adrenal healing but really the culprit is spammable T3 burst skills.

Perhaps if you ask Henry he will make one about warriors, guaranteed to get a lot of attention and discussion.

apharma.3741:

Cynz.9437:

I am not defending the build (it is probably one of the stupidest things produced by HoT) but can someone actually tell me how it is any different from current warrior or DHs meta builds? They have even more point presense than thief, as much if not more survuvability, just as low skill floor. Why do i not see you crying for nerfs for those classes? Why are they fine?

As far as counters go, i can deal with those thieves just as fine scrapper or necro. As thief (i play dp) i would have to give up point ew a bit but 1-2 burst is usually enough to finish those thieves off.

We’ve seen plenty of threads about DH and how brain dead easy it is so it’s kind of been done to death but by all means open another thread. Berserker is also stupid but we see less posts about that, the few I’ve seen have all talked about nerfing adrenal healing but really the culprit is spammable T3 burst skills.

Perhaps if you ask Henry he will make one about warriors, guaranteed to get a lot of attention and discussion.

I’m going to keep saying this until everybody agrees with me: the biggest problem with Berserker is Eternal Champion. I think it should work like necro’s Foot in the Grave rather than pulsing stability throughout Berserk mode. Giving amplified offense and defense at the same time is classic HoT powercreep.

The other thing that should change is the adrenaline generation on Cleansing Ire should have at least a 1s CD. Punishing players for successfully attacking warriors is total bullskritt.

ReaperJr.5967:

I know this has been mentioned before, but i feel the need to mention it again in case the devs missed it.

Apart from the fact that it has no counter 1v1, the only counterplay is to outrotate the said build. Unfortunately for me, my team mates feel the need to 2/3v1 said build on home node every game.. Unsuccessfully. I really can’t do much alone or even with a friend when that happens.

Let’s also bring up the fact that most defensive amulets were removed to prevent bunker builds from dominating like in S1. All in all, such a build shouldn’t even exist tbh. At the very most, if it’s going to be a bunker build, at least make it not be able to dish out damage (like paladin guard) and just be able to hold a node. Cheers.

I think one of the best ways to nerf condi thief would be to make DB a single-hit attack. As of right now it’s not countered by either aegis or blind, which together are used by a wide variety of classes for defensive purposes.

Funny…I stopped playing this build because it has so many counters that just straight up give me 0 chance of winning. Common mesmer, ele, necro, guardian, and some good rangers and warriors. Not to mention other thieves stalemate it at least. That’s too many players; I find I’m only killing the new players or inexperienced players.

anyone got a video of condi evade thief?
nvm, found one
i still prefer my staff acro power thief tbh!

Liewec.2896:

anyone got a video of condi evade thief?
nvm, found one
i still prefer my staff acro power thief tbh!

this is not the maygi build, the maygi build is d/d d/d with signet of malice.