Guild Wars 2

Counterplay against power:

1. dodge, block, blind etc
2. protection
3. high toughness
4. high vitality

Counterplay against condi:
1. dodge, block, blind etc
2. resistance
3. high vitality
4. condi cleanse
5. condi transfer or boon conversion
6. heals

people should stop to see condi as something that suddenly blinks on your bar and kills you. every condi build has to land some key skills to apply condi damage. reaper executioner scythe? guard torch throw? engis blowtorch? you need to play around those heavy hitting condi skills like you would play around ranger’s rapid fire or warriors hundred blades.
most condi builds have really few hard hitting skills. for condi guard, it is 3 sources of burning: zealots fire (the torch throw), purging flames (the blue fire ring) and their blocks. don’t hit into block like an idiot, and both purging flames and zealots fire have obvious animations..
also don’t burn al your condi cleanse on single bleed stacks. necro auto bleeds deal around 1k dmg over 10 seconds, which is less than most power autos and easily bypassed by regen and your healing skill. don’t waste your condi cleanse on this.

Yeah, you go from 0 to 5k per second with a couple of kittened skills, but sure, my 45s cd cleanse will take care of it after if taken 225000 points of damage from it.

You dont even have to remain offensive, conditions stay there, face it dude, conditions are kittened right now.

Conditions tick harder and more often than melee characters can actually hit you, that should tell you how kittening kittened they are.

The benefit of condis is that they allow you to be offensive and defensive simultaneously. With that said, one thing power specs have over condi is that they aren’t rendered completely useless by things such as resistance and high cleanse uptime (guardians and elementalists).

Apolo.5942:

Yeah, you go from 0 to 5k per second with a couple of kittened skills, but sure, my 45s cd cleanse will take care of it after if taken 225000 points of damage from it.

You dont even have to remain offensive, conditions stay there, face it dude, conditions are kittened right now.

Conditions tick harder and more often than melee characters can actually hit you, that should tell you how kittening kittened they are.

Could you detail which profession is limited to one cleanse on a 45 second cooldown?

Apolo.5942:

Yeah, you go from 0 to 5k per second with a couple of kittened skills, but sure, my 45s cd cleanse will take care of it after if taken 225000 points of damage from it.

You dont even have to remain offensive, conditions stay there, face it dude, conditions are kittened right now.

Conditions tick harder and more often than melee characters can actually hit you, that should tell you how kittening kittened they are.

No class can apply conditions without interacting with you. If you eat every condi skill avaible in the game, you are dying as fast as aginst any power build. Just think: They are both the same, both deal damage, just power hits you imidately while condi does delayed damage. You still need to dodge both kind of attacks.

the problem isnt conditions themselves, its how overloaded specs have become. you get hit with 3+ conditions just for being near a necro changing form. I remember the days of lb sw/sw warrior, it had 3 key abilities that did a lot of damage by applying conditions (lb 6, sword 4 and wildfire) there was counterplay. Now its just a battle of who can kitten out the most abilities without dieing first and hoping you can dodge one of their 10 big abilities

Kuya.6495:

The benefit of condis is that they allow you to be offensive and defensive simultaneously. With that said, one thing power specs have over condi is that they aren’t rendered completely useless by things such as resistance and high cleanse uptime (guardians and elementalists).

I would heavily disagree with that. Condi is just delayed damage, you still need to land attacks to apply them in the first place. COndi does not allow you to play more agrresive or defensive, it is all about the amount of damage you can deal with it, in both case. If you kill someone with condi, you have beaten them in the moment you applied these condis, not at the moment they go into down state.

generally condi has less obvious animations on a shorter cd. I think the qq comes from this and that condis can outpace cleanses.

UBcktieDL.5318:

Counterplay against power:

1. dodge, block, blind etc
2. protection
3. high toughness
4. high vitality

Counterplay against condi:
1. dodge, block, blind etc
2. resistance
3. high vitality
4. condi cleanse
5. condi transfer or boon conversion
6. heals

So the thing you’re missing out on is that Blocks, Protection and Blind are the only three under Power counterplay that require skills, and when it comes down to it those tend to be found on viable weapons anyway.

Meanwhile, almost all of the listed condi counterplay requires slot skills and traits that are not found on terribly ideal traitlines. With typically only three slot skills available, sacrificing even one can severely cut down on your ability to respond to other major parts of the meta.

That’s also putting aside that there’s very few condi clears etc that remove more than three. I know of only one or two professions that inflict less than three damaging conditions, and they still have access to other conditions. So what happens if you have Vulnerability, Chill, 1 stack Burning, and 15 stacks of Bleeding? Fire off your – at best – three-cleanse… And depending on what order things happened in, there’s a good chance you’ll walk away with 15 stacks of bleeding and your cleanse on cooldown.

Then you factor in every class with a condition on an auto-attack… You’ll probably have all three of the useless things you just cleansed back on you right away.

Oh yeah, and then you have to heal up too. So you’re punished three times to a mechanic that is, just for the salt on wounds, backed up by a single stat.

In short: Sure, there’s more options to counter condi than power has, but it’s not easier to counter, and it’s definitely not as convenient in any way.

If anet’s listening, I feel like at the very least, conditions should be converted into a temporary “immunity” effect to each condition cleansed. Something short and sweet, just a couple seconds to make {insert condi build} back off for a second. It’s the barest minimum that can be done towards toning back the condi meta.

yes, but consider this OP; as soon as you admit you’re bad complaining becomes less fun.

everything applies conditions. even power and support builds.

an ele uses flash freeze/feel the burn on his team and sit in your aoe/melee and you take conditions from it.

conditions are supposed and should deal damage and not be completely negated like everyone here wants them to by cleanse alone. however conditions are not exclusive to only condition builds. it is now applied by everything active and passive. blame HoT elite specs?

Abilities that apply condition damage deal usually around 2-3 times more dmg (total) than power builds. However, even if they hit they have a chance to deal exactly 0 condi dmg because of cleanse or resistance. Balance kept
Some builds are really strong against condi dmg (guardians, eles, druids) while other are really weak (revs and thieves). On average condi is about as strong as power but less versatile. Also conditions are rather weak in teamfights due to many, many Aoe cleanses.
I just feel like some people are really against sacrificing some fun/dmg traits and utylity for cleanse and then complain because they don’t have a good way to remove condi. Others just don’t want to accept that GW2’s 1v1 is basically rock paper scissors with extra steps.

As to cleansing only 2-3 condis: just pay attention to the order of condis applied, it works every time 80% of the time.

Guys, stop this power vs condi complaining wars. It’s annoying. The game balance is in an OK place right now, except for low build diversity. If it wasn’t there would be only 5 or 6 builds in top 100…
They are both good for different things and suit different playstyles. They both can be abused by different team comps and builds in different ways and in different ranks.
That’s the end of it!

It’s pretty clear to me that the people generally doing the complaining about condis are usually players who main classes who are the weakest against condis (revs, thfs, rngs, engis, etc). Same thing happens when there’s a thread complaining about guardians. It’s usually good to bet it’s a thf or mes main doing the whinning. Same thing when a thread pops up whinning about thfs. You can also bet it’s probably a necro, mes or ele main.

Kuya.6495:

It’s pretty clear to me that the people generally doing the complaining about condis are usually players who main classes who are the weakest against condis (revs, thfs, rngs, engis, etc)

Yep. It would be like if I lost in rock-paper-scissors and started complaining that rock is too overpowered and only cancerous players use it. Try using something that takes skill like paper or scissors!

I think the qq comes from this and that condis can outpace cleanses.

That’s one of the points.

@UBcktieDL.5318

I’m completely on your side. Currently the necro that i run has enough life gain to deal with conditions, i have a mass condi clear, and Life fore that takes damage in shroud. It’s a power tank.

Right now everyone and their mother plays a condition build. Every fresh kid into pvp these days is either a 1,000 block and burn guard or maybe a condition and run teef.

There are amulets in pvp that have a great advantage against condi. For instance since necro is a light armor, I just swapped from Mauraders to Barbarian tho now even power builds can now do mass dmg to me since i have no armor lol. i can watch for them and counter but mainly conditions do nothing to me.

Still pushing this BS line? people play conditions in WvW AND PvP thats how kittening kittened they are.

I like how ‘heals’ is listed as a counter to condi, and not to power LMAO. Can’t heal power damage boys

aerodynamique.5267:

I like how ‘heals’ is listed as a counter to condi, and not to power LMAO. Can’t heal power damage boys

Should really be the other way around, since power dmg does not affect healing capacity, whilst condition does. Poison anyone? Counters healing pretty darn well.

zalt.8937:

aerodynamique.5267:

I like how ‘heals’ is listed as a counter to condi, and not to power LMAO. Can’t heal power damage boys

Should really be the other way around, since power dmg does not affect healing capacity, whilst condition does. Poison anyone? Counters healing pretty darn well.

One stack of poison can counter healing and poison available to power builds. It is not the DAMAGE fron the poison that inhibits the heal by a third, it the mere presence of poison. Power thieves have used poison in their builds for a long time just as they have used conditions like Immob blind weakness and cripple.

aerodynamique.5267:

I like how ‘heals’ is listed as a counter to condi, and not to power LMAO. Can’t heal power damage boys

You take power damage and the damage is already done. Howver if you eat a condi attack, it applies a DoT and you can use your heal to mitigate damage. let’s say you have 5k Health and get hit by either a 6k Power Attack or a 10k Condi attack over 5 seconds. You’ll be downed from the power attack but you can press your heal and survive the condi attack.

I talk only about condi as a damage over time tool in this thread. Power builds also apply condis, but more to support their damage output or to weaken the enemy rather than straight up damage. Thief poison stacks? DH blinds? Ele chill and cripple stacks anyone?

Apolo.5942:

Still pushing this BS line? people play conditions in WvW AND PvP thats how kittening kittened they are.

As a solo roamer to small group havoc. Currently small scale WvW belongs to the condi thugs me. On my Condi Chrono or Reaper. Players would have to be 2 to 3 times more skilled and better then me to win. Other then that I kills them because condis are completely balanced.

Nope I’m not going back to power in small scale till things change. Dire, and Trailblazer too good to pass up atm. Condition damage builds are too good to pass up atm. Hell I’m even starting to see Condi Eles, like wtf? Lol

I think it’s evident by the fact that most people are playing condi that condi is not easier to counter. It is a much easier way of applying an extreme amount of damage to a player, in a short period of time, or long period of time.

Even if someone wins against a non condi user, matches are small enough that the conditions will persist long enough to keep them in combat until another member of their team come and kills them.

Not to mention, even soft CC benefit condi users more cause they usually have stats that increase condition duratioin. So you’re crippled, chilled, blinded, slowed, feared, immobilized, and have weakness almost 40% longer than when a power user tries to apply the same soft CCs to you.

Hot Boy.7138:

most people are playing condi

[citation needed]

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Hot Boy.7138:

most people are playing condi

[citation needed]

just my experience in over 300 matches this season so far

1-2 condi builds in average per match on oposing team. Can’t say it exact. Seems to lean more to the 2. Basically 90% of the mesmers and about 50% of war/necro play condi. Maybe more condi war/necros in lower divisions. Then 20-30% of the guardians are burn and some condi thiefs.
This means you will face a dangerous condi oponent in each match and this means you face the following mentioned by Kadj:

With typically only three slot skills available, sacrificing even one can severely cut down on your ability to respond to other major parts of the meta.

And people often can´t stand this. I have the same problem. I can change my utilities depending on needs. If i put in the condi remover instead of the block i might stand the condi build but get killed by the CC+Power spike if i use the block i have to avoid dueling the condi build knowing i loose in the long run.

Bad? No … Not for me. It´s actually good.

Much more frustrating is the low build diversity within the classes but overall balance is OK.
Of course people that dislike rock/paper/scissor systems will not get warm with such a concept that leans a bit to build wars….

Kuya.6495:

The benefit of condis is that they allow you to be offensive and defensive simultaneously. With that said, one thing power specs have over condi is that they aren’t rendered completely useless by things such as resistance and high cleanse uptime (guardians and elementalists).

Sadly this is a feature that got introduced with HOT across power-, and condibuilds and is part of the reason i dont really enjoy fighting HOT-Specs. Meta powerscrapper for example has in 3 of his 5 weaponskills a defensivmechanism build in but they all do dmg. This leads to a more rotationheavy gameplay and given the short cds to a sort of spammy and less contextual style.

ppl just dont get the design of condis, but thx for tryin OP. +1 #casualwars2

UBcktieDL.5318:

Counterplay against power:

1. dodge, block, blind etc
2. protection
3. high toughness
4. high vitality

Counterplay against condi:
1. dodge, block, blind etc
2. resistance
3. high vitality
4. condi cleanse
5. condi transfer or boon conversion
6. heals

These are kind of all in the same category of “condi cleanse” although I guess Resistance is a “invlun that only affects active condis.” Either way this is clear overlap just to prove a point.

Also Heals? If you get an Ranger to half HP with a power build and they heal how is that any a exclusive counter to condi?

Even if clense is considered a big enough counter, condi is a single stat investment to be effective.

Also Power Shatter is much easier to counter than condi chrono, and condi chrono has 4 ways to stack condis, while power shatter has 1 decently strong burst.

People don’t understand what the real problem is.

Condition damage is always(even after all the buff) an inferior way of dealing damage than power. It gives players a second chance and more time to react to it.

However, condition spam makes condition management too hard and too random at the moment. It is not just the condition damage build. Many of the power-based build and also very good at spamming condition. For example, power reaper is actually more popular and easier to play than condition reaper as power reaper can spam conditions just as well.

Condition spam(too many types of condition at a time) is strong not condition damage.

Kuya.6495:

The benefit of condis is that they allow you to be offensive and defensive simultaneously. With that said, one thing power specs have over condi is that they aren’t rendered completely useless by things such as resistance and high cleanse uptime (guardians and elementalists).

You do realize that in sPvP this is a completely false statement right? It’s no different from power builds. I always see this argument about how a condi build can stack conditions on you then play defensively.

Well guess what, that condi build had to hit you in order to achieve this, with attacks, likely multiple attacks to get everything stacked, and that damage will tick over time instead of all at once.

How is that different from a power build? A druid for example, landing a rapid fire and bristleback combo on you, then going defensive with Astral Form to heal up, stealth, and position for the next burst?

Some may say the difference is that the condi player still has damage ticking over time while playing defensively. Well of course he does (unless it was completely negated by a cleanse) because the condi player’s damage needs to tick over time to reach its full potential. That power player, it’s done. He landed his damage, he doesn’t have to worry about cleanses or anything, he got his damage in.

It’s really amazing how people fail to understand such a simple concept.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Apolo.5942:

Still pushing this BS line? people play conditions in WvW AND PvP thats how kittening kittened they are.

As a solo roamer to small group havoc. Currently small scale WvW belongs to the condi thugs me. On my Condi Chrono or Reaper. Players would have to be 2 to 3 times more skilled and better then me to win. Other then that I kills them because condis are completely balanced.

Nope I’m not going back to power in small scale till things change. Dire, and Trailblazer too good to pass up atm. Condition damage builds are too good to pass up atm. Hell I’m even starting to see Condi Eles, like wtf? Lol

When has WvW ever been balanced?

Daishi.6027:

Also Power Shatter is much easier to counter than condi chrono, and condi chrono has 4 ways to stack condis, while power shatter has 1 decently strong burst.

And Condi Scrapper is much easier to counter than Power Scrapper, Condi Druid is much easier to counter than Power Druid. I really don’t get your point there. Just because a build may be unbalanced, doesn’t mean conditions as a whole are OP or whatever.

I play Power Scrapper, Shoutbow Druid, Hybrid Shoutmancer Reaper, and Symbolic Dragonhunter. Maybe everything I play has some next level condi defense that isn’t available to what the rest of the people complaining here play, but I don’t have a hard time with conditions at all. I mostly die to power builds, which is also what I mostly come across in PvP. Teams are generally 1-2 condi, 3-4 power, and maybe 1 support, maybe.

its a pve problem that is borking up the entire game….and ANet is careless on the stats values, add the awfull balance/class design.

players that want to make damage output should go squishy some classes due the pve balance and class feel for pve are bit broken.
Wich results in removing stats from pvp…

Shaogin.2679:

Daishi.6027:

Also Power Shatter is much easier to counter than condi chrono, and condi chrono has 4 ways to stack condis, while power shatter has 1 decently strong burst.

And Condi Scrapper is much easier to counter than Power Scrapper, Condi Druid is much easier to counter than Power Druid. I really don’t get your point there. Just because a build may be unbalanced, doesn’t mean conditions as a whole are OP or whatever.

I play Power Scrapper, Shoutbow Druid, Hybrid Shoutmancer Reaper, and Symbolic Dragonhunter. Maybe everything I play has some next level condi defense that isn’t available to what the rest of the people complaining here play, but I don’t have a hard time with conditions at all. I mostly die to power builds, which is also what I mostly come across in PvP. Teams are generally 1-2 condi, 3-4 power, and maybe 1 support, maybe.

That was more of a direct comment to the title, in the context of meta my statement was irrelevant I guess.

I actually do think that condis are more reasonable right now than the hyperbole about it, however I feel like the list in the OP has overlap, and it’s a bit more even than claimed.

Condi is easier to apply, reapply and can be either active or passive. There is a reason why the condi meta has been around for quite some time now.

Kuya.6495:

It’s pretty clear to me that the people generally doing the complaining about condis are usually players who main classes who are the weakest against condis (revs, thfs, rngs, engis, etc). Same thing happens when there’s a thread complaining about guardians. It’s usually good to bet it’s a thf or mes main doing the whinning. Same thing when a thread pops up whinning about thfs. You can also bet it’s probably a necro, mes or ele main.

Traditionally in every pvp game that a hit and run class, are the ones who complain most of all.

They believe that jumping like a monkey is “skill” and that pvp is mario bros or sonic. It’s all about jumping and running.

No. Not at all.

I don’t play condi because it feels cheap as hell. I’ve played it, it’s lame. Pressure, wait for cleanse, reapply, gg. End of story. Condi is easier to counter than power? Lmao. Power has to apply consistent damage, often staying in melee or keeping their distance (either of which is difficulty to upkeep) in group fights, cycling through both defensive and offensive skills while maintaining pressure on their target constantly.

Every condition builds relies on a one-two knockout punch and is able to apply many more conditions than there are cleanses. Animations are horrid, and in that one or two seconds they can apply upwards of 10s of power damage on a target and the counter to that is a CD. Don’t have it? Go ahead and /gg as soon as you see your oponent. I’d even go as far as to say that 98% of the time I check the logs after a death, it’s something ridiculous like 20k poison, 30k burn, 15k bleed… and 3k power damage.

Conditions are kittened in this game and take away any semblance of skill in pvp.

Condi can be countered with dodge?
wish i could counter the 11 stacks of burn with a dodge when a gua applied them

Menyus.4610:

Condi can be countered with dodge?
wish i could counter the 11 stacks of burn with a dodge when a gua applied them

some classes clear condi on dodge roll. as a warrior i can remove those burn stacks by weapon swapping, so easy counter.

otherwise just dodge roll the attacks that apply the burns. its not ultra hard dude.

===

to all yall who think power burst is harder to do…. are yall just terrible? burst on warrior, DH & thief are all pretty dang easy to pull off. like is vault- bound- vault really a hard way to apply 20k+ dmg? like its it really that difficult to headbutt- arcing slice- rifle butt- gufflame?

condi just seems hard to fight because you havnt learnt any tells & you never learnt to manage condi. i was once like you, but i spent a lot of time on 1v1 arenas & wvw fighting condi builds so i know how to do it. 1v1s with feedback make a huge difference.

Weakness?

Also i can gain condi by simply hitting someone…

Reaper Alim.4176:

Apolo.5942:

Still pushing this BS line? people play conditions in WvW AND PvP thats how kittening kittened they are.

As a solo roamer to small group havoc. Currently small scale WvW belongs to the condi thugs me. On my Condi Chrono or Reaper. Players would have to be 2 to 3 times more skilled and better then me to win. Other then that I kills them because condis are completely balanced.

Nope I’m not going back to power in small scale till things change. Dire, and Trailblazer too good to pass up atm. Condition damage builds are too good to pass up atm. Hell I’m even starting to see Condi Eles, like wtf? Lol

Dire necros are beasts in wvw.

choovanski.5462:

Menyus.4610:

Condi can be countered with dodge?
wish i could counter the 11 stacks of burn with a dodge when a gua applied them

some classes clear condi on dodge roll. as a warrior i can remove those burn stacks by weapon swapping, so easy counter.

otherwise just dodge roll the attacks that apply the burns. its not ultra hard dude.

===

to all yall who think power burst is harder to do…. are yall just terrible? burst on warrior, DH & thief are all pretty dang easy to pull off. like is vault- bound- vault really a hard way to apply 20k+ dmg? like its it really that difficult to headbutt- arcing slice- rifle butt- gufflame?

condi just seems hard to fight because you havnt learnt any tells & you never learnt to manage condi. i was once like you, but i spent a lot of time on 1v1 arenas & wvw fighting condi builds so i know how to do it. 1v1s with feedback make a huge difference.

Headbutt and arc slice are fairly telegraphed and easier to avoid I believe

Solstace.2514:

choovanski.5462:

Menyus.4610:

Condi can be countered with dodge?
wish i could counter the 11 stacks of burn with a dodge when a gua applied them

some classes clear condi on dodge roll. as a warrior i can remove those burn stacks by weapon swapping, so easy counter.

otherwise just dodge roll the attacks that apply the burns. its not ultra hard dude.

===

to all yall who think power burst is harder to do…. are yall just terrible? burst on warrior, DH & thief are all pretty dang easy to pull off. like is vault- bound- vault really a hard way to apply 20k+ dmg? like its it really that difficult to headbutt- arcing slice- rifle butt- gufflame?

condi just seems hard to fight because you havnt learnt any tells & you never learnt to manage condi. i was once like you, but i spent a lot of time on 1v1 arenas & wvw fighting condi builds so i know how to do it. 1v1s with feedback make a huge difference.

Headbutt and arc slice are fairly telegraphed and easier to avoid I believe

Headbutt nerf sucks, but we warriors have to work w what we got :’(

At least the stun is long enough to ensure a burst if it lands…

UBcktieDL.5318:

Apolo.5942:

Yeah, you go from 0 to 5k per second with a couple of kittened skills, but sure, my 45s cd cleanse will take care of it after if taken 225000 points of damage from it.

You dont even have to remain offensive, conditions stay there, face it dude, conditions are kittened right now.

Conditions tick harder and more often than melee characters can actually hit you, that should tell you how kittening kittened they are.

No class can apply conditions without interacting with you. If you eat every condi skill avaible in the game, you are dying as fast as aginst any power build. Just think: They are both the same, both deal damage, just power hits you imidately while condi does delayed damage. You still need to dodge both kind of attacks.

That’s not entirely true here, different game mode, same skills – in wvw I was killing my self on mh DH pew pewing with LB and an ele was sharing frost aura, I got chilled from hitting the reaper and there I was bleeding, I interacted with him, not the other way around and I was getting bleed stacks. Ok not sure if pvp builds use such combos like that but I don’t see why not.

I am not what I consider an elite player. I am older than most here and do not have those reflexes. I still hunt and peck when I type oftimes in battle hitting the wrong key on my keyboard when wanting to use a certain skill (as In oops weapon swap , I did not want that I wanted the AA).

In any case when I first came to WvW I hated the SB as I could not use it like others seemed to do. I found it awkward as heck . The rapid movement across the map or to switch elevations was something others seemed to do with ease while beyond my skills. I just decided to play SB exclusively for weeks on end no matter how bad and awkward it felt and no matter how many times I died on it until i got better. Now I am fine with it.

The same is true when facing condition builds. I started by overloading on cleanses and then slowly peeling them off in the build as I got better. When I really wanted a challenge I stripped to the barebones in the same so as to hone avoidance skills and learn when best to use those limited cleanses.

This hardly makes me immortal , nor would I expect it to , but there still a whole lot that IS under the players control and given my own experience it my feeling that if there any issues with Condition versus power or vice versa it limited to very specific skills or traits on very particular builds and is not “universal”.

You CAN counter Condition builds.

babazhook.6805:

I am not what I consider an elite player. I am older than most here and do not have those reflexes. I still hunt and peck when I type oftimes in battle hitting the wrong key on my keyboard when wanting to use a certain skill (as In oops weapon swap , I did not want that I wanted the AA).

I HATE when this happens. Im ready to stealth burst someone as a thief, when I steal for back-stab then mash my auto, I swap to my other weps and screw my backstab up with a stealth pistol auto

Shaogin.2679:

Kuya.6495:

The benefit of condis is that they allow you to be offensive and defensive simultaneously. With that said, one thing power specs have over condi is that they aren’t rendered completely useless by things such as resistance and high cleanse uptime (guardians and elementalists).

You do realize that in sPvP this is a completely false statement right? It’s no different from power builds. I always see this argument about how a condi build can stack conditions on you then play defensively.

Well guess what, that condi build had to hit you in order to achieve this, with attacks, likely multiple attacks to get everything stacked, and that damage will tick over time instead of all at once.

How is that different from a power build? A druid for example, landing a rapid fire and bristleback combo on you, then going defensive with Astral Form to heal up, stealth, and position for the next burst?

Some may say the difference is that the condi player still has damage ticking over time while playing defensively. Well of course he does (unless it was completely negated by a cleanse) because the condi player’s damage needs to tick over time to reach its full potential. That power player, it’s done. He landed his damage, he doesn’t have to worry about cleanses or anything, he got his damage in.

It’s really amazing how people fail to understand such a simple concept.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Apolo.5942:

Still pushing this BS line? people play conditions in WvW AND PvP thats how kittening kittened they are.

As a solo roamer to small group havoc. Currently small scale WvW belongs to the condi thugs me. On my Condi Chrono or Reaper. Players would have to be 2 to 3 times more skilled and better then me to win. Other then that I kills them because condis are completely balanced.

Nope I’m not going back to power in small scale till things change. Dire, and Trailblazer too good to pass up atm. Condition damage builds are too good to pass up atm. Hell I’m even starting to see Condi Eles, like wtf? Lol

When has WvW ever been balanced?

Daishi.6027:

Also Power Shatter is much easier to counter than condi chrono, and condi chrono has 4 ways to stack condis, while power shatter has 1 decently strong burst.

And Condi Scrapper is much easier to counter than Power Scrapper, Condi Druid is much easier to counter than Power Druid. I really don’t get your point there. Just because a build may be unbalanced, doesn’t mean conditions as a whole are OP or whatever.

I play Power Scrapper, Shoutbow Druid, Hybrid Shoutmancer Reaper, and Symbolic Dragonhunter. Maybe everything I play has some next level condi defense that isn’t available to what the rest of the people complaining here play, but I don’t have a hard time with conditions at all. I mostly die to power builds, which is also what I mostly come across in PvP. Teams are generally 1-2 condi, 3-4 power, and maybe 1 support, maybe.

Maybe WvW never was totally balanced. But hell it was in better shape for the roaming scene. Roaming is D.E.A.D. as it stands. Bacc when it was power meta, roaming was a great part of WvW and it was often a good selling point on reddit with some great youtubers posting great roaming videos.

In PvP, you got the lesser version of condi cancer since they banned some condi runes along with condition stats set (trailblazer and Dire).

But even without those best in slot itemization, condi is still limiting everyone to be a cleanse machine in term of utility choice. The meta had anti condition tools built-in with almost ever class… be it cleanse,resist or condition transfer, they all aim at countering condition application.

The golden age of pvp was when there were usually 1 condition build per team, 1 mobility class (thief or mesmer) and then the rest would a mix (usually 1 bunker/support and 2 dps).