Guild Wars 2

As the title states. Condi meta is the worst that could’ve happened to this game. Condi-heavy pvp makes it uninteresting. You have super tanky builds that spew aoe traps of death and just kite around until their opponent has been ticked down to death. And what’s worse, Gw2’s combat invalidates errors with dodges. Dodges are ineffective against condis. Its ridiculous to have burn/poison/whatever to do same DPS as physical attacks or more, over time.

In my humble opinion melee combat is dead. Unless you thief. And that only because they can shadow step away if kitten gets too serious.

I hope ANet addresses this eventually. PvP is just unfun now.

What’s worse at this point, i have absolutely no suggestions on how to improve it without making the condi suck ups cry all over. But steps toward balance must be made.

Please don’t leave the melee/physical combat in the gutter like you did with underwater combat in favor of damage over time kite combat. It’s not even fun to watch. So for the time being i dont even feel like watching the ESL weekly cups, much less the WTS later in August. Every team runs 2 cele eles now and burn guards. :c

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

Sounds like your problem is more with burning that anything else, and it’s agreed by the majority that burning damage is broken at the moment, with the “new and improved” stacking system, that will get fixed in time.

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

I agree. That’s not the case atm though. With the amount of tankyness condi makes … and the only viable condi defense being …. stacking more vitality <o> its ludicrous

As a hybrid guardian I agree Burning is on Rampage now…

However the damage nerf would destroy the condition builds.
My suggestion:
reduce the multistack burning’s applications (Purging Flames, Drake’s Breath, Judge’s Intervention, etc…) by a third and extend their duration by 33%.

This yields the same damage but spreads it out so there is more counterplay.
I do not prefer the “Protection-against-condition” suggestion. The bunker’s are the builds who have the most access to protection and they usually use multiple condition removals anyways. Making them basically immune to condition damage is a bad idea IMHO.

yah i would have suggested reducing the silly stacking going on aswell, mainly because abilities that stack one burn, like dhuumfire, are sortof bad at the moment, there’s definitely a problem when you see cele eles doing 1.7k burning damage to you and yet be able to 6k firegrab your butt if they manage yo catch you :p (i’d be fine with the latter if it wasn’t for the condi damage)

The only thing that needs nerfing atm is Guardians burning and Ele might stacking. Everyone else’s burning is fine. If a Ranger can get you to stand in the fire for more than a few seconds, then you probably did something wrong.

Its the worst so lets nerf more power builds how about grenades again yay

who plays condi in pvp now?

Dirame: exactly!

the problem is not the burn itself…. it’s the amount some professions can dish out in less then 1 second. Applying 6-10 stack of burn IS the problem. My preferred class is one of them (that’s why I do not play Burn guardian rather a hybrid) and the elementalist comes second.

Dirame.8521:

The only thing that needs nerfing atm is Guardians burning and Ele might stacking. Everyone else’s burning is fine. If a Ranger can get you to stand in the fire for more than a few seconds, then you probably did something wrong.

here’s the problem with that. I’m not saying the fire circle is spammable but its close. If you don’t enter to do damage the ranger will safely heal. If you don’t enter you’ll lose the cap.

Condi rangers are tanky as f… and while you are outside the fire circle, they have little to no issue to throw condi axes at your face. Which is fine since its not as lame as ele or guardi’s burning. Meanwhile you have 5 condis with multiple stacks ticking you down. You cleanse them, you go at that ranger again, he drops the fire circle again.

Pretty much your most safe bet is to call the mesmer and just move on. You simply cannot melee condi oriented build.

Every build that forces you to ignore it (like the turret engineer back in the day) should be eradicated. You should either be tanky with low damage or you should do high damage but be paper. Condi builds have the best of the both worlds

This is not right ^

Aggrostemma.1703:

Dirame: exactly!

the problem is not the burn itself…. it’s the amount some professions can dish out in less then 1 second. Applying 6-10 stack of burn IS the problem. My preferred class is one of them (that’s why I do not play Burn guardian rather a hybrid) and the elementalist comes second.

I totally agree.
Old burning was kinda useless against most profs when they could cleanse a 12 sek Burn after 3sek. The way it deals now DMG now, seems much more fair than before. Now u can create “Condiburst”. And tbh walking trough the firewall of an ele is not the eles fault ….
The old pew pew Meta was even more kittenty cause thief > all other zerkerspecs.

Thief is still only hardcountered by mediguard in 1on1 berserker fight.

Silly post, condi’s are by and large just like power, they aren’t magically applied, they come from enemies hitting you with their skills just like power. Yes condi can get damage boosts from random procs like incendiary powder, but you know what, same thing with power. When rngsus is in power’s favor and they land a crit, they do way more damage than they would have all because they stacked precision and got lucky. That condi build doesn’t benefit from precision unless they are traited for a proc which helps to make up for the lack of critical condition damage.

Some people claim power is more skillful with better telegraphs and more counter play. Often though the opposite is true. Power has tons of instant unavoidable damage such as fire and air, stealth bursts, meditations, fresh air, spinal shivers. Meanwhile on condi even if you do get hit by the unavoidable stuff, there actually is a counter, called cleansing. Sure you can’t cleans all of the condis and they can also be reapplied but you shouldn’t be able to do that. If you want to cleanse all conditions from all sources all the time, then you just want to straight up hard counter all condition builds. How about we also have a way to straight up hard counter all power builds like protection now applies endure the pain and reduces all incoming direct damage to zero. Then have some builds that actually have perma protection like hammer guardian and voila balance.

Of course all this rambling has nothing to do with actual balance, where conditions can actually be over powered. Frankly they aren’t right now. Burning damage is pretty crazy right now, but so is direct damage, and right now the most popular amulets are zerk or marauder. That seems to indicate that if condi damage needs to be shaved, then power damage needs to be shaved even more since it is still the stronger option.

ArthurDent.9538:

Silly post, condi’s are by and large just like power, they aren’t magically applied, they come from enemies hitting you with their skills just like power.

lulz good joke there. Burn Guard does absolutely nothing but blocking through passive play and they’ll still apply 5+ stacks of burning that tick for 2k/s There is absolutely zero active play involved in some condi builds & runes. Condi builds are supposed to be damage over time whilst power builds are frontloaded burst damage. Currently theres barely any difference between condi burst and power burst and if burn ticks for more than 1k/s you know something is wrong with the game.

So far, I’ve played ele and war in pvp since the patch. I thought that maybe, since I had only played ele since patch that I may have been bias. But I don’t see much problem with burning. Most classes were given extra cleanses and if you slot them during this meta, easy peasy, at least for warrior and elementalist. My warrior plays often with only 1 condi cleanse too, and it works out fine. (on weapon swap) But I also slot beserker stance, which, for a zerker build, is even better than a cleanse. So I’m taking advantage of my traits and utilities and find I don’t die to conditions any more often than I do to direct damage. I basically die when I’m out of position with no way out, regardless of how my enemies are bringing me down.

On my cele ele build, I can shrug off conditions easily. But, with my lower hp, I notice when I get hit for one tick of burning from a guard (6-12 stacks), but I’ll usually cleanse before even that one tick.

On my new bunker warrior. I barely have to move and I feel nearly invincible. I think this will actually become the meta warrior build (or some variant). I can offer great team support with cleanses, heals, fury, perma regen, some might, vigor, swiftness, and banner. I’m always the last one to die, and it takes usually three to force me off a point. (although lack of stability is the builds weakness) But with high mobility, I play like a mobile support class. And it works amazingly.

Condition builds will either get nerfed, or mostly forced out of play by all the classes that can sneeze condtions off themselves. I know warrior and ele can survive forever 1v1 against anything. (ele can even do some decent damage) The warrior can even protect his teamates from conditions, while the ele build cant protect his teamates directly, instead focuses on cc and hard rezes/stomps.

Overall, I’m having fun in this meta, but I’m still unsure of what class I’m going to focus on for HoT. Specializations will probably dictate that. In fact, forget condition damage, lets hear about the new specializations!! No more waiting!

So why are there almost always more burst than condi classes when condis are so op?

laquito.5269:

ArthurDent.9538:

Silly post, condi’s are by and large just like power, they aren’t magically applied, they come from enemies hitting you with their skills just like power.

lulz good joke there. Burn Guard does absolutely nothing but blocking through passive play and they’ll still apply 5+ stacks of burning that tick for 2k/s There is absolutely zero active play involved in some condi builds & runes. Condi builds are supposed to be damage over time whilst power builds are frontloaded burst damage. Currently theres barely any difference between condi burst and power burst and if burn ticks for more than 1k/s you know something is wrong with the game.

The blocks aren’t automatic aside from the random virtue of courage every 65 seconds, where that one tick wont kill you. The other blocks are active skills generally well telegraphed and to counter the burning all you need to do is stop attacking. Perhaps you need to stop bursting into shelter.

I think the new condi is great. It removes Berserker from Overlord and levels the field a bit for other play styles.

Thank you for that ANET.

Condition meta is powerful.

Oh, wait, no condition builds in tournaments.

The last time Anet got a chubby for conditions pvp lost players and streamers started quitting. It was condi-nuking necros and spirit rangers pushing zerkers out of the meta with hambow warrior countering the other 2. It was funny how the necros/rangers complained more than the other classes….but it was a terrible time for this game.

(skip to 34min in to see the “petting zoo”)
^^That’s what happens when “condi builds are as viable as power builds”. Literally every person in that match is a tank except the thief on sync. Now, this meta isn’t even a week old so there’s no way of knowing what will be top tier. But those desiring a condi-filled meta should be careful what they wish for.

There is no condition meta.

I think the title of the thread should be “Bringing condi cleanse and having to dodge condi application is the worst”. I’m pretty sure that’s the issue.

The only thing wrong with condition is that a single class is able to apply quick/high stacks of burning. Tone down burning just a bit and this game is super balanced.

If there was a condi meta you’d see signet necros in tournaments. Or you know, an actual condi build.

I just think burning and confusion hits too hard and bleeding is too weak.

Burning is a simple fix, but confusion needs to be split for PvP and PvE. Leave confusion as it used to be for PvP.

Conditions got a big buff, and yet still power builds dominate.

Damage in general is over the top imo, not just conditions. Conditions should get a nerf and so should power, and power needs a bigger slash than conditions.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Dirame.8521:

The only thing that needs nerfing atm is Guardians burning and Ele might stacking. Everyone else’s burning is fine. If a Ranger can get you to stand in the fire for more than a few seconds, then you probably did something wrong.

here’s the problem with that. I’m not saying the fire circle is spammable but its close. If you don’t enter to do damage the ranger will safely heal. If you don’t enter you’ll lose the cap.

Condi rangers are tanky as f… and while you are outside the fire circle, they have little to no issue to throw condi axes at your face. Which is fine since its not as lame as ele or guardi’s burning. Meanwhile you have 5 condis with multiple stacks ticking you down. You cleanse them, you go at that ranger again, he drops the fire circle again.

Pretty much your most safe bet is to call the mesmer and just move on. You simply cannot melee condi oriented build.

Every build that forces you to ignore it (like the turret engineer back in the day) should be eradicated. You should either be tanky with low damage or you should do high damage but be paper. Condi builds have the best of the both worlds

This is not right ^

Condi Ranger is easy to beat but smart players know how to mess with their opponents idea of spacing. Even Mesmers have a hard time dealing with them and all they need to do is spam 1 from range but don’t ask me why they don’t do that.

With a restriction like “I can only really fight you in melee” is it really fair to nerf what power they do have? When the real culprit is the classes that can spam Zealot’s Flame every 10s on crit (I’m still dazzled at how that even went live after they said they’d nerf it on stream) or 25 might stack and punch you in the face with a 6k flame touch? and if you really knew what you were doing, you could totally migh-stack with Guardian as well and get an even more insane amount of burning damage. I mean seriously, those guys need to get cut down.

I mean come on. Look at the other classes; Necro can’t even do burning properly, Engineer can get high stacks but, that’s not a smart way to play, Mesmers have a ton of condis but they have other problems that don’t have anything to do with condis, Thieves never play the condi build and Warrior’s condi build is too slow to write home about.

You really want to lop all those classes into one box because 2 classes are outliers? That’s just lazy.

there is no condi meta man, no one is running condis in top MMR. engies aren’t viable, condi necros aren’t viable, condi rangers are better but still meh. burn guards are probably the closest to viable, but are mostly rallybait if anyone slots a few condi cleanses which people tend to.

also stop misusing word meta. meta wont appear until a few months after HoT release.

Eh, what “condi meta”?

The only condi builds that remotely compete with power are the insane burning eles/guards.

Otherwise power is still top.

Here to say what many others have already said.

There is currently no such thing as condi meta lol

Sure, condi builds are stronger, but they are still far from “meta”. Burning is another thing but that’s not “condi meta”

Curunen.8729:

Eh, what “condi meta”?

The only condi builds that remotely compete with power are the insane burning eles/guards.

Otherwise power is still top.

Truth.

In competetive PvP, there are rather fewer condi-based builds than before, except that D/D-Eles are on the rise again.

Engis are used less often and when they are used, they often don’t have the added burning or even use soldier-runes and not cele.

Also, we don’t really see Shoutbow anymore, which did a lot of burning-dmg.

Yes, some Necro/Ranger builds that are condition-based could be somewhat viable, but they are still not seen that often.

Besides, almost every class got more condi-removal, so I really don’t see why any1 should complain abaout a condi-meta.

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

Xillllix.3485:

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

So, you want to say that e.g. Necro Scepter AAs are passive, while Thief Dagger AAs are not? Nonsense.
Condi aren’t passive by any means, they are applied by skills same as Power damage, the only real difference is that Condi damage is delayed and requires more time to have certain effect. Also, same way you can dodge Condi burst skills like you dodge Power burst skills…

Morwath.9817:

Xillllix.3485:

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

So, you want to say that e.g. Necro Scepter AAs are passive, while Thief Dagger AAs are not? Nonsense.
Condi aren’t passive by any means, they are applied by skills same as Power damage, the only real difference is that Condi damage is delayed and requires more time to have certain effect. Also, same way you can dodge Condi burst skills like you dodge Power burst skills…

Yes I mean you can totally dodge fire ring or ele’s fire rush. You can absolutely do this. And lose the capture point c:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Morwath.9817:

Xillllix.3485:

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

So, you want to say that e.g. Necro Scepter AAs are passive, while Thief Dagger AAs are not? Nonsense.
Condi aren’t passive by any means, they are applied by skills same as Power damage, the only real difference is that Condi damage is delayed and requires more time to have certain effect. Also, same way you can dodge Condi burst skills like you dodge Power burst skills…

Yes I mean you can totally dodge fire ring or ele’s fire rush. You can absolutely do this. And lose the capture point c:

So the problem are AoE effects (there are also AoE power effects) that cover points, not Condi damage? ;-)

Xillllix.3485:

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

How have years passed, and people still don’t realize you can dodge condi application?

Cogbyrn.7283:

Xillllix.3485:

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

How have years passed, and people still don’t realize you can dodge condi application?

Problem is, they nerfed endurance/vigor regen while NOW you need the higher dodge uptime. You can’t expect someone to dodge condies AND dodge power abilities . Sure you can condi cleanse! Although from what I gather (haven’t been much active in pvp lately because its boring to me) the condis do maximum damage in the first 2-3 seconds. While giving the caster a sick survival meanwhile.

At least power builds, the viable ones, are super squishy. Make no mistake, I consider D/D cele ele a condi build. The damage it is doing is off the chart. The sustain it pulls is unmatched by any other class (perhaps maybe bunker guard heals better, but yeah … bunker guard would fight me for a week before having the chance to win me)

Condi ranger is very tanky and applies condition pressure passively on low cooldowns.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Xillllix.3485:

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

How have years passed, and people still don’t realize you can dodge condi application?

Problem is, they nerfed endurance/vigor regen while NOW you need the higher dodge uptime. You can’t expect someone to dodge condies AND dodge power abilities .

I don’t get your problem. If you’re fighting condi build, you dodge condi abilities. If you’re fighting power build, you dodge power abilities… there is no reason for condi abilities to be less viable than power ones.

Morwath.9817:

Xillllix.3485:

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

So, you want to say that e.g. Necro Scepter AAs are passive, while Thief Dagger AAs are not? Nonsense.
Condi aren’t passive by any means, they are applied by skills same as Power damage, the only real difference is that Condi damage is delayed and requires more time to have certain effect. Also, same way you can dodge Condi burst skills like you dodge Power burst skills…

This,

Morwath.9817:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Xillllix.3485:

Morwath.9817:

Condi builds should be as viable as Power builds.

No it shouldn’t. Condis are passive, you just stack them up and numbers win for you instead of skill. MMOs where passive skills are too strong are the most boring ones to play and are more unbalanced (for example ESO, where a single guy can take out a whole zerg).

Power skills requires your opponent to dodge every single burst and promotes active gameplay which relies on reflexes and skill.

How have years passed, and people still don’t realize you can dodge condi application?

Problem is, they nerfed endurance/vigor regen while NOW you need the higher dodge uptime. You can’t expect someone to dodge condies AND dodge power abilities .

I don’t get your problem. If you’re fighting condi build, you dodge condi abilities. If you’re fighting power build, you dodge power abilities… there is no reason for condi abilities to be less viable than power ones.

and this.

Adapt or get stomped, but don’t whine.

Well, no power build can pressure as much as condi builds while being viable. A typical power build would walk in, burst and hope for AA crits. If the burst was somewhat blocked/dodged/interrupted a typical power user would activate a blocking ability and try to run away.

Most condi builds spew conditions while running … so that’s that. On top of having sick survival. Conditions are unblockable for protections like Endure Pain and correct me if I’m wrong but Protection isn’t really affecting condi damage.

It has really low counter play. Every condi cleanse ability has huge cooldown while the condi application has half that. Unless you run some shouter build with trooper runes

P.S: Not to mention that condi duel is super uninteresting to watch. Why do people watch League of Legends? Most of the damage is done close-up and its fun to watch animations with weight on them. kitten is caltrop dodge that kills? <o>

If condi ends up becoming a thing, it will be like a huge middle finger to all animators that ever worked at arena net. Just my 2 cents.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Well, no power build can pressure as much as condi builds while being viable. A typical power build would walk in, burst and hope for AA crits. If the burst was somewhat blocked/dodged/interrupted a typical power user would activate a blocking ability and try to run away.

Really? Is every power build a backstab thief? If my burst is mitigated I keep the pressure on and try again.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Most condi builds spew conditions while running … so that’s that. On top of having sick survival. Conditions are unblockable for protections like Endure Pain and correct me if I’m wrong but Protection isn’t really affecting condi damage.

It has really low counter play. Every condi cleanse ability has huge cooldown while the condi application has half that. Unless you run some shouter build with trooper runes

Untrue. In any case, this [non]issue is mitigated if you have more than one way to remove conditions. And if you don’t have that, I assume it’s because you favored some other utility/trait over it, in which case: You can’t have it all…

Ravenmoon.5318:

Although from what I gather (haven’t been much active in pvp lately because its boring to me) the condis do maximum damage in the first 2-3 seconds. While giving the caster a sick survival meanwhile.

The game gave certain classes/builds the ability to stack a lot of burns in 2-3 seconds, which then start ticking heavily over the next 2-3 seconds. So in about 5-6 seconds you’ve taken the full damage from the abilities.

Many other classes build up bleeds/poisons/add in some burning over time. It often takes more than 2 – 3 seconds to even get conditions rolling. The whole point of conditions is to be difficult to kill while doing damage over time.

Most of the time, either people just want the game to be super fast-paced where people die easily, or they don’t pay attention to the build-up phase and just see when everything is rolling, then think it all happened passively or something.

Back in the day, I wasn’t a fan of conditions either, so I started looking them up. I did some math, compared to Power abilities, and did a complete 180 on my opinion of conditions after looking at the numbers.

Salamander.2504:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Well, no power build can pressure as much as condi builds while being viable. A typical power build would walk in, burst and hope for AA crits. If the burst was somewhat blocked/dodged/interrupted a typical power user would activate a blocking ability and try to run away.

Really? Is every power build a backstab thief? If my burst is mitigated I keep the pressure on and try again.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Most condi builds spew conditions while running … so that’s that. On top of having sick survival. Conditions are unblockable for protections like Endure Pain and correct me if I’m wrong but Protection isn’t really affecting condi damage.

It has really low counter play. Every condi cleanse ability has huge cooldown while the condi application has half that. Unless you run some shouter build with trooper runes

Untrue. In any case, this [non]issue is mitigated if you have more than one way to remove conditions. And if you don’t have that, I assume it’s because you favored some other utility/trait over it, in which case: You can’t have it all…

I didn’t mean thief in particular. I’m pretty sure no power build can stay and pressure (by power you should understand marauder/berserker) as much as condi build. It takes half a second to have all conditions reapplied within few seconds while a typical power build can have its abilities blocked by a freaking weapon ability. Most classes have access to blocks on weapons. Even more so on utilities.

I can’t have it all? Well, before the patch it felt like having it all AND playing the way I wanted to play. Now? Now I have to flip a coin and wonder where the team is running full condi or full power and skill accordingly

No thanks. Silverwastes, here I come /o/

Ravenmoon.5318:

I didn’t mean thief in particular. I’m pretty sure no power build can stay and pressure (by power you should understand marauder/berserker) as much as condi build. It takes half a second to have all conditions reapplied within few seconds while a typical power build can have its abilities blocked by a freaking weapon ability. Most classes have access to blocks on weapons. Even more so on utilities.

No way. If you just cleared 20 stacks of bleed, you just mitigated an enormous amount of damage, because now the opponent needs to ramp up again, during which you’re still wacking away at them. If they apply a bunch of conditions at once, you can be sure that either (1) its a variety of conditions (i.e., blind, cripple, bleed, poison), in which case the DPS takes awhile to ramp up, or (2) you’ve got a lot of stacks of burning from a Guard or Ele, in which case clearing it should be trivial since these classes won’t typically apply lots of other conditions.

Ravenmoon.5318:

I can’t have it all? Well, before the patch it felt like having it all AND playing the way I wanted to play. Now? Now I have to flip a coin and wonder where the team is running full condi or full power and skill accordingly

No thanks. Silverwastes, here I come /o/

Before the patch conditions were unviable, which is wrong, broken, and removes build diversity. The fact is, none of us should have been able to “have it all”, so we all need to adapt our builds to be more balanced around conditions and power. This is a really good thing— it makes the game less one-dimensional.

Agreed, you shouldn’t have ever felt like you had it all. If you did, then it was an imbalance. Also, you shouldn’t feel like you have to be able to bring it all yourself. That’s what teamplay is for, and certain classes/builds excel at helping allies remove conditions.

Teamplay is like the great white buffalo in this game. No one sees it for so long that they forget it even exists, only in this case, coordination is an integral part of the balance design.

Rym.1469:

Condition meta is powerful.

Oh, wait, no condition builds in tournaments.

Most people here don’t play in high level tournaments. They only care about what impacts them directly. You should know that.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Well, no power build can pressure as much as condi builds while being viable. A typical power build would walk in, burst and hope for AA crits. If the burst was somewhat blocked/dodged/interrupted a typical power user would activate a blocking ability and try to run away.

Most condi builds spew conditions while running … so that’s that. On top of having sick survival. Conditions are unblockable for protections like Endure Pain and correct me if I’m wrong but Protection isn’t really affecting condi damage.

It has really low counter play. Every condi cleanse ability has huge cooldown while the condi application has half that. Unless you run some shouter build with trooper runes

P.S: Not to mention that condi duel is super uninteresting to watch. Why do people watch League of Legends? Most of the damage is done close-up and its fun to watch animations with weight on them. kitten is caltrop dodge that kills? <o>

If condi ends up becoming a thing, it will be like a huge middle finger to all animators that ever worked at arena net. Just my 2 cents.

Well at least you understand what I was saying.

Thanks for explaining it in better words.

Xillllix.3485:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Well, no power build can pressure as much as condi builds while being viable. A typical power build would walk in, burst and hope for AA crits. If the burst was somewhat blocked/dodged/interrupted a typical power user would activate a blocking ability and try to run away.

Most condi builds spew conditions while running … so that’s that. On top of having sick survival. Conditions are unblockable for protections like Endure Pain and correct me if I’m wrong but Protection isn’t really affecting condi damage.

It has really low counter play. Every condi cleanse ability has huge cooldown while the condi application has half that. Unless you run some shouter build with trooper runes

P.S: Not to mention that condi duel is super uninteresting to watch. Why do people watch League of Legends? Most of the damage is done close-up and its fun to watch animations with weight on them. kitten is caltrop dodge that kills? <o>

If condi ends up becoming a thing, it will be like a huge middle finger to all animators that ever worked at arena net. Just my 2 cents.

Well at least you understand what I was saying.

Thanks for explaining it in better words.

Welp, I guess I prefer watching someone die to highly telegraphed eviscerate or well placed backstab, rather than burning applied 15 seconds ago. Sue me

my only problem with condis is lack of resistance and some classes lack of condi clear. especially since most invul skills don’t work on condis, if we got some more condi clear and/or resistance that would settle many of my complaints.

However i have a rather intense vendetta against condis so it’s pretty likely my opinion is rather sqewed.