Guild Wars 2

They literally are getting carried to higher levels of play because lower tiers do not know how to deal with conditions and so they become more common across most tiers.

Fighting a team with 4 condi heavy players makes the game completely unfun, whether they win or not. Conditions promote bad play and pollute the game.

Its simply not fun to have face such condi heavy comps.

Despite popular belief conditions have LESS counterplay than power.

Conditions are too effective at lower tiers and needs to be adjusted on a PER build/skill basis. Thank you.

EDIT :
Source for this :

I run a guild that teaches PvP. We are not pros but we can handle ourself.

MOST if not all of the new players default to condi heavy builds because they are easier and more forgiven and then quickly and consistently face players that are completely above their skill level to such an extend that they don’t even have a chance in 1v1 or even the slightest idea how to play PVP.

imo condis have more counterplay, and can be defended while you are afk. this is because AOE cleanses exist and you can just have a bunk guard clear all the condis.

evades, blocks, and most invuns work against condi damage, and you have resistance and cleanses. there are plenty of ways to deal with condis, all you have to do is learn when to clear stacks. sure new players are new and get owned all the time, but isn’t that just how they are vs everything? perhaps you should teach them how to manage condi clears, or just teach a few of them bunk guard.

nerfing condis because noobs can’t handle them is not something I would like to see happen. it leads to a slippery slope where everything that owns noobs is looked at to be nerfed, and that would cause many problems imo.

choovanski.5462:

imo condis have more counterplay, and can be defended while you are afk. this is because AOE cleanses exist and you can just have a bunk guard clear all the condis.

evades, blocks, and most invuns work against condi damage, and you have resistance and cleanses. there are plenty of ways to deal with condis, all you have to do is learn when to clear stacks. sure new players are new and get owned all the time, but isn’t that just how they are vs everything? perhaps you should teach them how to manage condi clears, or just teach a few of them bunk guard.

nerfing condis because noobs can’t handle them is not something I would like to see happen. it leads to a slippery slope where everything that owns noobs is looked at to be nerfed, and that would cause many problems imo.

The problem is the spamming nature.
Honestly i dont care if its nerfed or not, but it needs to promote skillful play.

That’s for anet to figure luckily.

The game has more skills which cause direct dmg than skills which inflict condis. So direct dmg is spammed even more. Why is this not a problem?

“Spam” is such an overused term and doesn’t make any sense most of the time. The real problem is all this passiv and unavoidable stuff, offensive and defensive -and this is not (only) a condi problem.

In my experience, most people who complain about condis are inexperienced.

As a condi player, fighting the following classes can be a complete pain in the kitten because of such high spammable condi removal that playing condi can be really irritating at times:
-Fire-specced ele – a disgusting amount of cleanses. Good luck making your condis stick.
-Mantra Mesmer – crazy amount of cleanses – good luck with making your condis stick.
-Shout Warrior – AoE cleanse.
-Shout Guardian – AoE cleanse
-Shadow Arts thief – go into stealth and all of the sudden all your damaging condis fall right off
-Signet Necros transfer it all back to you

People hate condis because they slowly kill you… but I’m sorry, if you’re not bringing any condi cleanse on your team, that’s just the way it’s going to be. Imo unless you’re a condi Mesmer and maybe burn guard, playing condi in sPvP is not faceroll at all. In WvW it may be, but in sPvP it’s not, especially at “higher tier” fights.

Just for fun I played my s/w shout warrior recently (theyre not as powerful as they used to be but I wanted to take a break from my rampage warr)

Against a burn guard mid fight, I actually felt bad for him for not even scratching the surface of my armor. Cleanses are great but dodging obvious tells allows you save your precious cleanses.

MethaneGas.8357:

In my experience, most people who complain about condis are inexperienced.

As a condi player, fighting the following classes can be a complete pain in the kitten because of such high spammable condi removal that playing condi can be really irritating at times:
-Fire-specced ele – a disgusting amount of cleanses. Good luck making your condis stick.
-Mantra Mesmer – crazy amount of cleanses – good luck with making your condis stick.
-Shout Warrior – AoE cleanse.
-Shout Guardian – AoE cleanse
-Shadow Arts thief – go into stealth and all of the sudden all your damaging condis fall right off
-Signet Necros transfer it all back to you

People hate condis because they slowly kill you… but I’m sorry, if you’re not bringing any condi cleanse on your team, that’s just the way it’s going to be. Imo unless you’re a condi Mesmer and maybe burn guard, playing condi in sPvP is not faceroll at all. In WvW it may be, but in sPvP it’s not, especially at “higher tier” fights.

Conditions are shaping the meta to a much larger extend than ever before, its one of the main factors that limit diversity. Think on that.

Also thieves. I think you don’t understand how ineffective Shadows embrace has become. 1 condition every 3 seconds, NOT damaging conditions. if 6+ stacks of burning isn’t removed with the initial clear after stealthing, 3 seconds is more than enough to screw the thief over

Thieves, warrior, Engis (although elixirs are keeping them relatively ok) and rangers do not have near as much cleanse.

I have said this so many times, balancing around JUST premade teamcomps is foolhardy and ultimately pushes people from pvp.

Most singular condi builds are not a problem(some burning amounts on ele and such are stupid) but in a overwhelming condi comp, it gets impossible to deal with and its effectively ROFLStomping the lower/medium and more importantly SOLOQ games levels of play. Since this is 90%+ of the PvP community, i believe SOMETHING needs to be done.

Pimsley.3681:

Just for fun I played my s/w shout warrior recently (theyre not as powerful as they used to be but I wanted to take a break from my rampage warr)

Against a burn guard mid fight, I actually felt bad for him for not even scratching the surface of my armor. Cleanses are great but dodging obvious tells allows you save your precious cleanses.

Burn guard isn’t a problem other than their defense that i feel is too high for their possible free counterpressure. 3 on a team though, ouch.

GrandHaven.1052:

MethaneGas.8357:

In my experience, most people who complain about condis are inexperienced.

As a condi player, fighting the following classes can be a complete pain in the kitten because of such high spammable condi removal that playing condi can be really irritating at times:
-Fire-specced ele – a disgusting amount of cleanses. Good luck making your condis stick.
-Mantra Mesmer – crazy amount of cleanses – good luck with making your condis stick.
-Shout Warrior – AoE cleanse.
-Shout Guardian – AoE cleanse
-Shadow Arts thief – go into stealth and all of the sudden all your damaging condis fall right off
-Signet Necros transfer it all back to you

People hate condis because they slowly kill you… but I’m sorry, if you’re not bringing any condi cleanse on your team, that’s just the way it’s going to be. Imo unless you’re a condi Mesmer and maybe burn guard, playing condi in sPvP is not faceroll at all. In WvW it may be, but in sPvP it’s not, especially at “higher tier” fights.

Conditions are shaping the meta to a much larger extend than ever before, its one of the main factors that limit diversity. Think on that.

Also thieves. I think you don’t understand how ineffective Shadows embrace has become. 1 condition every 3 seconds, NOT damaging conditions. if 6+ stacks of burning isn’t removed with the initial clear after stealthing, 3 seconds is more than enough to screw the thief over

Thieves, warrior, Engis (although elixirs are keeping them relatively ok) and rangers do not have near as much cleanse.

I have said this so many times, balancing around JUST premade teamcomps is foolhardy and ultimately pushes people from pvp.

Most singular condi builds are not a problem(some burning amounts on ele and such are stupid) but in a overwhelming condi comp, it gets impossible to deal with and its effectively ROFLStomping the lower/medium and more importantly SOLOQ games levels of play. Since this is 90%+ of the PvP community, i believe SOMETHING needs to be done.

Conditions decrease diversity? Such nonsense. There are more viable builds at metabattle sins months.
Bunkerguard is back.
After long time there is a Necrobuild, that made it to the current meta.
We now can add some viable conditionbuilds to the extisting directdamage builds.
Finally stealth is not a free combat-reset mechanic.
Mesmer/Thief Paintrain now cannot rule the whole match.

Three Years around a berserker and later celestial meta and now you are scared that conditions can also take a part in it?
Most of the conditions are applied by skills that can be dodged. The different to direct damage is that conditons can completly be negated by condiremove. And we got aoe condiremove like candy in this game. Protection reduce 33% of the incoming directdamage, but every condiremove reduce the conditiondamage about 90%, if you use it in the right moment. And since resistance is around there is another mechanic that negate conditiondamage completly. Is there a boon that has a similiar effect to directdamage?

And your argument that most of the lowtier in pvp cannot deal with conditions… shall we also nerf the mesmer to the ground because lowtier gamer cannot deal with the clones? And iam sure that also rampage is really op in lowtier. Maybe we should nerf it. It is the best idea to balance our skills around lowtierpvp.

And before your start with the argument, that conditionbuilds can use more defense:
Most bersekerclasses uses a secondary mechanic to get access to some kind of defense.
Thief and Mesmer are using Stealth and ports.
Warriors have even after healingsignetnerf an incredible passive heal, great hp-pool and some good basearmor.

Its also the reason that many other classes never made it to the metastandard with an viable bersekerbuild. For example the Powernecro or the Pew-Pew-Ranger. No access to viable ports or viable stealth so that every failure is punished ( without a chance to faceroll resest in stealth or port to higher ground).

There are some builds that, while not overpowered, are supremely frustrating to newer players. These builds—such as Condi Mesmer—might not be a problem on balanced team compositions where people know how to deal with them (and have options to do so), but when 2-3 members of the enemy team are playing them against your randomly matched pickup team, it can still be problematic. Another argument in favor of setting a one per team profession limit for solo queue, in my opinion.

Personal option: Condi patch ruined PvP for me… Every game those days got like 3-2 condi users that just spam (not even knowing what their skills do most of the time) condis on u and u just melt.
while u condi cleanse skill got 40-60 secs CD their condi spam skills got at least half of that time so they just keep applying it without any skills …
I mean come on that fact u can apply around 2.5k ticks worth of condis every 15 secs on some classes its just so broken rofl

Are you the same guy who complained about MM Necromancers being OP in regular PvP?

Rym.1469:

Are you the same guy who complained about MM Necromancers being OP in regular PvP?

Nope. I did make a thread about it. But clearly people dont read.
Never said it was OP just that it should get the same treatment as turret engi did and grt gutted.

So? That’s called metagaming and it’s a legit strategy to benefit from the lack of preparation of other players.

Why shouldn’t I run a condi-build if I notice that ppl are playing builds that suck against it?

There is more than enough counterplay to conditions, it’s not my problem that ppl don’t run it.

Lets face it, some of us are having difficulties against Malice (fact that it can be easily applied) while a lot of us are sluggish enough to read in Official gw2 wiki and that is why a lot of us (myself included) does not really know how Condition Damage scale as of now.

Perhaps the more total Armor i has should be a bit useful and deduct its damage? or if any of you has the knowledge, i’ll politely appreciate the help (Devs included, math is difficult).

I agree with most of the posts here. Condi class builds are more of a problem when an inexperienced player meets one. Or as i suspect, many players may still be playing glassy burst builds with no stability or condi cleanse.

Shout guard and shout warriors have no real problems facing condi classes. Have one or both in your team and you can drastically reduce the effectiveness of your average condi playing team.

GrandHaven.1052:

Also thieves. I think you don’t understand how ineffective Shadows embrace has become. 1 condition every 3 seconds, NOT damaging conditions. if 6+ stacks of burning isn’t removed with the initial clear after stealthing, 3 seconds is more than enough to screw the thief over

Thieves, warrior, Engis (although elixirs are keeping them relatively ok) and rangers do not have near as much cleanse.

Ranger/Theif main chiming in.

Ranger has plenty of condi clear via wilderness survial. In fact my all my rangers utilities(save SoH) and elite all clear condi (TU, LR, QZ or MT & Entangle). Yes you are somewhat piggon holed into it but they are decent skills anyways. To say ranger has no condi clear is a huge understatement.

Another option for ranger is going shouts and taking runes of the soldier(which works very well with settlers or clerics). Guard and SoTP can keep 100% upkeep of regen and swiftness for your team while having cleanses basically always up.

As for theif, if you should be running signet of agility the moment you suspect condi builds. Shadow step clears 3 conditions. Tricks if traited for cleanse conditions. Sword 2 has condi clear. Then there is shadows embrace. Thief has a lot of tools to get rid of conid. Your more than likely only using SE.

If your struggling to cleanse condi on either of those classes you have a LTP issue or your refusing to take tools that you need for more damage.

All of that said tho, burning in particular is very overbearing due to the high application that two classes have. I do agree that the number stack application for certain skills needs to be looked at.

GrandHaven.1052:

MethaneGas.8357:

In my experience, most people who complain about condis are inexperienced.

As a condi player, fighting the following classes can be a complete pain in the kitten because of such high spammable condi removal that playing condi can be really irritating at times:
-Fire-specced ele – a disgusting amount of cleanses. Good luck making your condis stick.
-Mantra Mesmer – crazy amount of cleanses – good luck with making your condis stick.
-Shout Warrior – AoE cleanse.
-Shout Guardian – AoE cleanse
-Shadow Arts thief – go into stealth and all of the sudden all your damaging condis fall right off
-Signet Necros transfer it all back to you

People hate condis because they slowly kill you… but I’m sorry, if you’re not bringing any condi cleanse on your team, that’s just the way it’s going to be. Imo unless you’re a condi Mesmer and maybe burn guard, playing condi in sPvP is not faceroll at all. In WvW it may be, but in sPvP it’s not, especially at “higher tier” fights.

Conditions are shaping the meta to a much larger extend than ever before, its one of the main factors that limit diversity. Think on that.

Also thieves. I think you don’t understand how ineffective Shadows embrace has become. 1 condition every 3 seconds, NOT damaging conditions. if 6+ stacks of burning isn’t removed with the initial clear after stealthing, 3 seconds is more than enough to screw the thief over

Thieves, warrior, Engis (although elixirs are keeping them relatively ok) and rangers do not have near as much cleanse.

I have said this so many times, balancing around JUST premade teamcomps is foolhardy and ultimately pushes people from pvp.

Most singular condi builds are not a problem(some burning amounts on ele and such are stupid) but in a overwhelming condi comp, it gets impossible to deal with and its effectively ROFLStomping the lower/medium and more importantly SOLOQ games levels of play. Since this is 90%+ of the PvP community, i believe SOMETHING needs to be done.

I have been thinking about that and you are 100% incorrect. In fact, I have been thinking about that for around 3 years now while playing power based builds, how about you ?

Having power based damage and power based meta for 3+ years IS THE LACK OF DIVERSITY. I have zero issues with power based crap dying out and being replaced with a DOT / attrition game style which has been severly lacking in this game.

The meta needs to be rotated. Power builds had 3 years, now its something elses turn for 3 years, then so on and so forth.

Tongku.5326:

GrandHaven.1052:

MethaneGas.8357:

In my experience, most people who complain about condis are inexperienced.

As a condi player, fighting the following classes can be a complete pain in the kitten because of such high spammable condi removal that playing condi can be really irritating at times:
-Fire-specced ele – a disgusting amount of cleanses. Good luck making your condis stick.
-Mantra Mesmer – crazy amount of cleanses – good luck with making your condis stick.
-Shout Warrior – AoE cleanse.
-Shout Guardian – AoE cleanse
-Shadow Arts thief – go into stealth and all of the sudden all your damaging condis fall right off
-Signet Necros transfer it all back to you

People hate condis because they slowly kill you… but I’m sorry, if you’re not bringing any condi cleanse on your team, that’s just the way it’s going to be. Imo unless you’re a condi Mesmer and maybe burn guard, playing condi in sPvP is not faceroll at all. In WvW it may be, but in sPvP it’s not, especially at “higher tier” fights.

Conditions are shaping the meta to a much larger extend than ever before, its one of the main factors that limit diversity. Think on that.

Also thieves. I think you don’t understand how ineffective Shadows embrace has become. 1 condition every 3 seconds, NOT damaging conditions. if 6+ stacks of burning isn’t removed with the initial clear after stealthing, 3 seconds is more than enough to screw the thief over

Thieves, warrior, Engis (although elixirs are keeping them relatively ok) and rangers do not have near as much cleanse.

I have said this so many times, balancing around JUST premade teamcomps is foolhardy and ultimately pushes people from pvp.

Most singular condi builds are not a problem(some burning amounts on ele and such are stupid) but in a overwhelming condi comp, it gets impossible to deal with and its effectively ROFLStomping the lower/medium and more importantly SOLOQ games levels of play. Since this is 90%+ of the PvP community, i believe SOMETHING needs to be done.

I have been thinking about that and you are 100% incorrect. In fact, I have been thinking about that for around 3 years now while playing power based builds, how about you ?

Having power based damage and power based meta for 3+ years IS THE LACK OF DIVERSITY. I have zero issues with power based crap dying out and being replaced with a DOT / attrition game style which has been severly lacking in this game.

The meta needs to be rotated. Power builds had 3 years, now its something elses turn for 3 years, then so on and so forth.

Burning build not attrition based though. Even the meta burning guard is called burst.

Ah don’t worry, if things get outta hand just call in The necromancer’s.

Sorry I must have missed the bit with the facts and the evidence. All I hear is “waaa waaa I’m losing to condition builds”.

There are so many options for removal, on every class.

The problem is that you refuse to change your build.

Regarding the original topic. It’s not bad design to have low skill rewarding competitive elements in the game. This video sums up the general idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

I think the problem is that dying from a condition load feels more frustrating than dying from a damage burst because you have this “clock ticking” effect.

Burn guard is I believe a very balanced condi build. It is only one condi, meaning it is easy to cleanse in 1v1 (and in 5v5, AOE cleanse would solve all problems anyway) + it is a burst. So you die in 5s from a condi guard burst? Well you could have died in the same time from a power thief or mesmer burst too. And condi guard is usually on a carrion amulet, which is far from tanky (it mostly fixes the low HP pool of guardian). Also, contrary to thief or mesmer, the guard has very few disengage. So the burn guard is very fragile between his bursts.

And clearly I don’t see how someone can say condis have less counterplay than power. The only real problem is that you can run high condi damage and be tanky, but usually classes doing that are not that bursty, so it makes up for it (D/D elementalists is a know issue)

Sube Dai.8496:

Sorry I must have missed the bit with the facts and the evidence. All I hear is “waaa waaa I’m losing to condition builds”.

There are so many options for removal, on every class.

The problem is that you refuse to change your build.

Sigh. Another person who completely misses the point. Condi spam is skill-less. It is easy. Most of it is AOE in nature. Oh, and by the way, you can also spec defensively and still have a spike condi burst.

Condi is the easier way to play PvP and therefore the easiest way to gain MMR. There is no arguing that.

style.6173:

Sube Dai.8496:

Sorry I must have missed the bit with the facts and the evidence. All I hear is “waaa waaa I’m losing to condition builds”.

There are so many options for removal, on every class.

The problem is that you refuse to change your build.

Sigh. Another person who completely misses the point. Condi spam is skill-less. It is easy. Most of it is AOE in nature. Oh, and by the way, you can also spec defensively and still have a spike condi burst.

Condi is the easier way to play PvP and therefore the easiest way to gain MMR. There is no arguing that.

The same thing could be said about power builds, honestly. Its not like this game is hard. Most of every build is AOE in nature. I can’t really argue with you about the defensive part, though. That does tend to go hand in hand with conditions.

Power aoe spam is skill-less. Do you aim a firestorm, really? A warrior burn field? Spam is the name of the game in GW2. There’s no energy penalty for doing it and therefore no real reason not to.

Yes, you have to manage cd’s a little. That really isn’t enough to restrict the “push the combo buttons really fast” meta.

The argument that condition builds aren’t skilled doesn’t hold water. Power builds are subject to the same complaint.

Most condition builds don’t take a lot of skill because you can have your defensive stats on your amulet while still having high condition damage.
It’s quite simple. If you are a PU mesmer using rabid, carrion or settler amulet or some other abomination, you not only have stealth, clones, range (you will play with scepter, staff), you also have the additional defensive stat from the amulet.
Something similar goes for thieves that just dodge in stealth, laying caltrops.

You kill unprepared people with it, sure. You also have to consider (since some here wish for a condi meta) how it would look if we had one. Let’s say 1v1 between two PU condi mesmers, going through their rotations mentioned here and cleansing and running around and… nothing would happen. Similarly to the duels between celestial dd eles. Sounds fun eh?

Condi: You need to know how to survive when your condi continually (or immediately) gets cleared.
Choosing targets and knowing when to engage is crucial.

Power: You need to know how to survive when your engagements doesn’t down the target as fast as you’d hoped.
Choosing targets and knowing when to burst is crucial.

Condi builds are more difficult to make work against higher competitive teams. They are “easier” builds because of the passive mechanic that condi is.
Example: Place a trap and wait for it to trigger and have it do all the work

Power builds are equally cheese because of their bursty nature.
Example: Guardian teleporting and instantly delivering a 10k+ aoe damages. Mesmer’s instant 7k bursts, or Thieves instant 6k backstabs that’s equally unpredictable.

For what ever the reason, it’s just easier to blame condi instead of power builds. They’re both equally cheesy.

Condi builds are probably doing well because not enough people are playing d/d ele and cele necro. /s

Honestly, condi builds aren’t unfun inherently. They are unfun when they continually condi-burst due to a million auto-procs that can’t be avoided. Procs and instants are the worst part of the combat system.

Not to mention that power creep has occured such that you now either have:
- All the condi removal and condi builds are 100% worthless
- Not enough condi removal and just get stomped

The rate of application is so high that using single condi clears intelligently does nothing. The only way they could balance this would be to:
-reduce condi cleanse capability a lot, so that people can only cleanse at very select times
- Reduce condi application rate at the same time, back towards the early days of pre-dhuumfire necro. Back then, you had to chain a few skills to build bleed stacks, then intelligently cover those bleeds to force damage.

Now you just spam abilities and a bunch of crap happens. The only abilities that are thoughtfully applied are cc’s.

Eval.2371:

As for theif, if you should be running signet of agility the moment you suspect condi builds. Shadow step clears 3 conditions. Tricks if traited for cleanse conditions. Sword 2 has condi clear. Then there is shadows embrace. Thief has a lot of tools to get rid of conid. Your more than likely only using SE.

While that is a summary of the total condition cleanses available to the Thief, it is a little disingenuous to lay it out that way. Traiting for Trick cleanse is hard to justify due to the VITAL nature of Bountiful Theft’s boon strip on Steal. Likewise, Shadow’s Embrace is hard to fit in when a competing choice significantly lowers the cooldown of Shadowstep and Shadow Refuge, the two most implacable abilities on your bar.

The sad fact of the matter is that Thief continues to suffer from the lowest core durability in the game, and that affects the usability of certain skills and traits. People often think that Thief is durable because it has a decent amount of evades. The problem is that evades are damage mitigation, not raw durability, so when your evades run out you still explode like a ripe pinata. Until this is addressed, few things with Thief will change.

The way the game is turning it seems like PvP is getting super boring.

No power builds because power cannot do anything vs condi unless they spec for condition removals.

Literally snoozefest.

Let us all take a moment to thank Anet for not including Dire amulet in PvP.

IMO, the primary reason people have problem with condis is because they’re still stuck in the mindset of overfilling their build with offensive stuff and leaving themselves with almost no defense. In that sense I think condi builds are a good thing: it shakes up the meta and may reverse the trend of “go completely glass or bust”.

I’d love to see balanced builds being the norm in PvP, instead of pure glass and the occassional bunker (let’s forget d/d Cele Ele exists for a moment).

For the record, as Mesmer who runs Inspiration, I have no more issues with condi builds than I do with power builds; as I actually devote some of my build to defence.

style.6173:

Sube Dai.8496:

Sorry I must have missed the bit with the facts and the evidence. All I hear is “waaa waaa I’m losing to condition builds”.

There are so many options for removal, on every class.

The problem is that you refuse to change your build.

Sigh. Another person who completely misses the point. Condi spam is skill-less. It is easy. Most of it is AOE in nature. Oh, and by the way, you can also spec defensively and still have a spike condi burst.

Condi is the easier way to play PvP and therefore the easiest way to gain MMR. There is no arguing that.

That is why you stack on vitality instead of protection. The Maurader’s Amulet is perfect for that.

I have always been in the high MMR so I don’t know how much of a problem it really is but, many of the really powerful condition builds require you to be in a specific position (like traps). The only other deadly conditions I have seen are burns from guardians.

You don’t even see many engineers anymore because the coditions they apply aren’t that great anymore, everyone is focusing on burns.

funassistant.6589:

The way the game is turning it seems like PvP is getting super boring.

No power builds because power cannot do anything vs condi unless they spec for condition removals.

Literally snoozefest.

I just don’t understand this mentality. So more than one type of stat set is capable of killing effectively and has plenty of counters and that equates to boring? You know what was boring? Being two shot from 100% by thieves, thieves and guards.

I also fail to see how slotting defensive skills hurts anyone? “Oh no I have to make choices by myself on how to not die to the thing that I keep getting pooped on by!”

Help me understand how diversity is boring in a game like this? Because I don’t.

style.6173:

Sube Dai.8496:

Sorry I must have missed the bit with the facts and the evidence. All I hear is “waaa waaa I’m losing to condition builds”.

There are so many options for removal, on every class.

The problem is that you refuse to change your build.

Sigh. Another person who completely misses the point. Condi spam is skill-less. It is easy. Most of it is AOE in nature. Oh, and by the way, you can also spec defensively and still have a spike condi burst.

Condi is the easier way to play PvP and therefore the easiest way to gain MMR. There is no arguing that.

Is this a way that power build players justify losing to condi builds? “My build takes more skill so even if I lose I can still feel good!” ?? Playing super offensively is brainless. Doesn’t matter if it’s condi or power based. But in higher MMR you’re going to get punished by playing that way. Period.

Were at a point in pvp with GW2 that, for the longest time, people could basically ignore conditions. Like seriously… Before they buffed burning did you ever care about immediately moving out of burning rush or bonfire? Probably not. And most people are having a hard to accepting that conditions can be dangerous and as a result they don’t being cleanses and die easily to them. It’ll get better. This needs to happen. The game will be better for it in the long run.

I don’t think you know how skilled you have to be to play a condi build and win against a decent shout warrior or guard… I dread it every time I see one.

It’s not conditions.
It’s specifically burn procs.

There have been plenty of threads in here that were well written and well discussed on this topic. Burning is widely recognized as a broken game mechanic in it’s current state. The core of the problem is that the game’s original design never intended for burning to stack. They designed many fire field spam attacks around the idea that burning does not stack and now that burning does indeed stack, there are simply too many sources for burning procs.

They need to turn down the amount of burn stacks that fire fields grant.
→ problem solved

ragnarokda.1805:

style.6173:

Sube Dai.8496:

Sorry I must have missed the bit with the facts and the evidence. All I hear is “waaa waaa I’m losing to condition builds”.

There are so many options for removal, on every class.

The problem is that you refuse to change your build.

Sigh. Another person who completely misses the point. Condi spam is skill-less. It is easy. Most of it is AOE in nature. Oh, and by the way, you can also spec defensively and still have a spike condi burst.

Condi is the easier way to play PvP and therefore the easiest way to gain MMR. There is no arguing that.

Is this a way that power build players justify losing to condi builds? “My build takes more skill so even if I lose I can still feel good!” ?? Playing super offensively is brainless. Doesn’t matter if it’s condi or power based. But in higher MMR you’re going to get punished by playing that way. Period.

Were at a point in pvp with GW2 that, for the longest time, people could basically ignore conditions. Like seriously… Before they buffed burning did you ever care about immediately moving out of burning rush or bonfire? Probably not. And most people are having a hard to accepting that conditions can be dangerous and as a result they don’t being cleanses and die easily to them. It’ll get better. This needs to happen. The game will be better for it in the long run.

I don’t think you know how skilled you have to be to play a condi build and win against a decent shout warrior or guard… I dread it every time I see one.

Ehhh it’s pretty much that and the fact that thieves and Mesmer can uber abuse Conditions with their stealth. I play a necro, so people hate us because we punish their boon spam and turn it into condition spam. Always found it funny how hardly anyone has a problem with boons but absolutely despises conditions. I do think burning definitely needs to be toned down though, and bleeding brought up to compensate, because right now the only competitive Condi Classes are the ones who can apply lots and lots of burning.

Do you guys really expect that in a random match making system like this there will always be a pug who brings aoe condi cleanse? Myself I really loathe this current meta, and barely play this game mode anymore. I even tried the celestial necro build and found it extremely boring to play

I would only be okay with burning being toned down if bleed, poison and torment were to hit harder.

i think people who are writing in this topic have no clue on what they are talking about, or they are just all progamers with a pro premade party well organized… rlly shout warrior???? are you kidding me? where do you see a shout warrior in a solo ranked?? are we playing the same game?
Condition build are easy and cheap, means they not require that hard set up and burst with a fast sequence of skills, thats the only reason why condi players are having better MMR nowadays, its very simple: easy gameplay, easy success.
Off course as people said, if they meet a shoutbow warrior they will be in trouble, but i dont think that much in trouble since to me actualy shoutbow warrior is kinda useless.
But of course the opposite team must know you are playing heavy condition, so i dont think its that easy even for a premade to chose to go “shoutbow warrior cleanser bot”.

Still i think condi players have heavy advantage in 1v1, and in solo ranked 1v1 scenario are happening more often than you tought. A power build player has to get double the experience and double the skill to defeat a condi player. And off course has to be faster than opponent, since the more the duel goes on the more condi become effective.

oh i also have to add this: the current condi meta is not fun at all, forcing build done like its more important to have cleanse than offensive/movement/alteration skills, it’s really sad and flat game.

I run into warriors with soldier runes on often enough to consider them. And it’s not like bunker guards are uncommon, either. I still don’t understand where you’re getting this “double experience” stuff with power builds? What builds are you talking about that are so much more complicated than condi builds? I honestly want to know because I feel like I wanna play those ones since there is so much more prestige in playing power over condi.

Scrubs play condi? I guess? No idea.

Shala.8352:

Condition build are easy and cheap, means they not require that hard set up and burst with a fast sequence of skills, thats the only reason why condi players are having better MMR nowadays (wtf, since when it is possible to see MMR?), its very simple: easy gameplay, easy success.

Power builds are easy and cheap, means they don’t require hard set up and burst with a fast sequence of skills, thats the only reason why power players are having better MMR (wtf, since when can we see MMR?) nowadays, its very simple: easy gameplay, easy success.

This condi meta does not exist. Most meta builds are power or cele. Fact.

ragnarokda.1805:

I run into warriors with soldier runes on often enough to consider them. And it’s not like bunker guards are uncommon, either. I still don’t understand where you’re getting this “double experience” stuff with power builds? What builds are you talking about that are so much more complicated than condi builds? I honestly want to know because I feel like I wanna play those ones since there is so much more prestige in playing power over condi.

Scrubs play condi? I guess? No idea.

well question is another: did condi players started by playing condi builds or power builds? And why they switched to condi players then? not enough fast, or just easy gameplay? just make 2+2 man, is very easy to understand that condi gameplay is much more easy.

Also i dont consider soldier a power build, is a tank build. Guards bunker as you mentioned are not power build either, they are just hibrid. I think of this since the fun thing is that the main dps of a bunker guardian will come out from the burning instead of the direct damage XD XD XD.
Also celestial that should be an hibrid, since should have both power and condi, is in fact carried by condi too.

Did power players started by playing power builds or condi bulds? And why did they switch to power player then? Not fast enough or just easy gameplay? …

Cele is carried by might stacking.

condi is so much easier simply cause you get the condi and the defense. Warriors/guardians have to give up so much on stats now to do enough dmg to down people. Warrior also has no range so no need to play a class that will struggle to hit its target.

Name a condi and its easy for a build set up, trap ranger- 3 traps with entangle and make sure to daze once in the traps, the dps player dies immediately.

Cele necro- places marks on the ground the melee dps character has to close the distance. Now with chill sigil you get hit switch weapons and start running the melee character cant keep up and you simply just let the condi take its time.

Guardian thats condi just use focus that way you can apply shelter for invulnerability and then 3 blocks after with 2-3 dodge rolls. You can time a rampage or a mesmer mind wreck with these abilities. While smashing the 1 button will apply a burn on them constantly.

There is literally no reason atm to run a dps character except on thief or mesmer. Rangers and warriors are not legit options on higher tier play teams and the rest is sustain with minimal damage from condi. thats the game at the moment.

Shala.8352:

ragnarokda.1805:

I run into warriors with soldier runes on often enough to consider them. And it’s not like bunker guards are uncommon, either. I still don’t understand where you’re getting this “double experience” stuff with power builds? What builds are you talking about that are so much more complicated than condi builds? I honestly want to know because I feel like I wanna play those ones since there is so much more prestige in playing power over condi.

Scrubs play condi? I guess? No idea.

well question is another: did condi players started by playing condi builds or power builds? And why they switched to condi players then? not enough fast, or just easy gameplay? just make 2+2 man, is very easy to understand that condi gameplay is much more easy.

I started condi, then switched to Power. Why? Power was so much easier to win with against competent opponents. I didn’t have to worry about cleanse spam and my damage output was higher anyway.

kdaddy.5431:

There is literally no reason atm to run a dps character except on thief or mesmer. Rangers and warriors are not legit options on higher tier play teams and the rest is sustain with minimal damage from condi. thats the game at the moment.

There is literally no reason atm to run a condi charakter except on … uhm … guard maybe?

Shala.8352:

ragnarokda.1805:

I run into warriors with soldier runes on often enough to consider them. And it’s not like bunker guards are uncommon, either. I still don’t understand where you’re getting this “double experience” stuff with power builds? What builds are you talking about that are so much more complicated than condi builds? I honestly want to know because I feel like I wanna play those ones since there is so much more prestige in playing power over condi.

Scrubs play condi? I guess? No idea.

well question is another: did condi players started by playing condi builds or power builds? And why they switched to condi players then? not enough fast, or just easy gameplay? just make 2+2 man, is very easy to understand that condi gameplay is much more easy.

Also i dont consider soldier a power build, is a tank build. Guards bunker as you mentioned are not power build either, they are just hibrid. I think of this since the fun thing is that the main dps of a bunker guardian will come out from the burning instead of the direct damage XD XD XD.
Also celestial that should be an hibrid, since should have both power and condi, is in fact carried by condi too.

What?

Have you ever played against a soldier/clerics necro auto-ing you with dagger or DS?

Ever got hit by a cleric’s guard intellgence sigil mace counter?

Do you even know how WEAK conditions are if you have 0 condi damage?

Celestial doesn’t get carried by condi, but might stacking…