Guild Wars 2

I didn’t read the entire thread, but I wanted to throw my two cents in.

Most condition builds I go up against are extremely tanky. It doesn’t seem fair to me that condition users can be so tanky whilst dealing so much damage.

Someone said that people are just mad that conditions kill you slowly. But I can die pretty quickly to a stacks of conditions that are quickly applied. And cleansing isn’t always an option since it gets reapplied more often than my cleanse skill recharges.

Meta build Eles.

Burn guards.

Trap Rangers (they pile their traps on top of each other. just walking on it is enough to down me without any other actions from them if my cleanse is on CD for even 5 to 6 sec.

Engineers to an extent.

I just don’t like that they can apply a lot of stacks in a very short period of time, and if you don’t clear it within 5 seconds, without any other actions from them, you’re down. It’s just not feasible to always have a cleanse within 5 seconds of being ready to use again.

I personally think that base condition damage should be nerfed and should scale with ferocity and precision. That way condi users also have to make a choice between defense and damage. Overall, there should be not much of a change with condition damage output the way it is now if a person chooses to go full into damage stats.

That people think Condition builds are strong right now is more a symptom, not the cause. Actual Condition builds are fairly weak at the moment, other than Condition Mesmer having an ok spot as a gimmick solo queue build.

Truthfully, a lot of the problems people are having with conditions right now are from damaging, durable builds that spit out conditions INCIDENTALLY. D/D Ele is a big offender in this department.

At first I sensed a lot of animosity in this thread but it seems to be dwindling now. I played condi when I first started and then realized it wasn’t a viable focus because conditions were too easily removed before they could serious damage and the defensive stats didn’t compensate for how slowly you killed people. Now, in my perspective at least, condi burst and power burst are nearly comparable unless you consider players with cleanses and higher reaction time. That’s when condi falls short.

I’m totally loving that damage conditions are scary at the moment. I LOVE DoT classes and I always have in any MMO or RPG I’ve ever played.

Well, mostly Burn and Confuse to be honest. Bleed and Poison leave a lot to be desired in the damage department right now, and only a couple of builds can stack them reliably. Poison’s heal reduction is always useful, though.

Additionally I believe the ease of playing one spec over another is largely based on the environment. In my case I play traps. And it’s a lot easier to kill someone if they’re not willing to move away from me. Sometimes people just aren’t aware that standing in fire long will only get you burned more. Lol. Idk what it is but people seriously love to stand in bonfire. MOST power builds don’t offer you a positional way out of taking their full damage unless you can LoS ranged burst or, I guess, cleave clones?

OK, just some thoughts here:

Player C plays Carrion with a condi build.

Player B plays Barbarian with a power build.

Who has bigger burst? (player B obviously)

They all have the same HP.

The burn can be reduced to 10% by using one or two condi cleanse ability in the first 15 seconds of the fight. And be dodged (apart of JI which is tricky to dodge I agree)

If I slot no stunbreak, invul, evade, distortion, godknows ability my build would be condidered CRAP!!! What the hell keeps you away from traiting or slotting a condi cleanse ability or trait?

Any other mortals had to do this since launch but it was: stunbreak, invuln, evade, distortion, stealth etc…

And now at this very second you have to use something else to protect your bottom you start to cry…

Every single player since launch were forced to use some counterplay against power-burst

And you are complaining that you have to defend yourself against something else too?

But I mean… Really?

EDIT: and don’t you think that a condi player surely slots some condi cleanse and this makes them weaker against power burst then before?

No Pulse.2967:

Shala.8352:

ragnarokda.1805:

I run into warriors with soldier runes on often enough to consider them. And it’s not like bunker guards are uncommon, either. I still don’t understand where you’re getting this “double experience” stuff with power builds? What builds are you talking about that are so much more complicated than condi builds? I honestly want to know because I feel like I wanna play those ones since there is so much more prestige in playing power over condi.

Scrubs play condi? I guess? No idea.

well question is another: did condi players started by playing condi builds or power builds? And why they switched to condi players then? not enough fast, or just easy gameplay? just make 2+2 man, is very easy to understand that condi gameplay is much more easy.

Also i dont consider soldier a power build, is a tank build. Guards bunker as you mentioned are not power build either, they are just hibrid. I think of this since the fun thing is that the main dps of a bunker guardian will come out from the burning instead of the direct damage XD XD XD.
Also celestial that should be an hibrid, since should have both power and condi, is in fact carried by condi too.

What?

Have you ever played against a soldier/clerics necro auto-ing you with dagger or DS?

Ever got hit by a cleric’s guard intellgence sigil mace counter?

Do you even know how WEAK conditions are if you have 0 condi damage?

Celestial doesn’t get carried by condi, but might stacking…

yup, this is why eles (legit ones not using vampire rune bug) prefer either strength or hoelbrak instead of balthazaar.

I just think that burning needs to be nerfed, and bleeding needs to be buffed. The difference between their damage potential is way too great. Instead of having burn be 4.5 times as powerful as bleeding, make it more like a 2 times difference. That way you could buff bleed and nerf burn without making shaving it so much that burning becomes weak.

ragnarokda.1805:

At first I sensed a lot of animosity in this thread but it seems to be dwindling now. I played condi when I first started and then realized it wasn’t a viable focus because conditions were too easily removed before they could serious damage and the defensive stats didn’t compensate for how slowly you killed people. Now, in my perspective at least, condi burst and power burst are nearly comparable unless you consider players with cleanses and higher reaction time. That’s when condi falls short.

I’m totally loving that damage conditions are scary at the moment. I LOVE DoT classes and I always have in any MMO or RPG I’ve ever played.

A single condi can be cleared. Any good condi player hits with multiple condis. Even better if they can use those other condi to cover their burns.

Anyone who doesn’t realize that condi builds are easier to play is just fooling themselves. Condis do too much damage given that someone can also spec defensively with that condi build.

style.6173:

ragnarokda.1805:

At first I sensed a lot of animosity in this thread but it seems to be dwindling now. I played condi when I first started and then realized it wasn’t a viable focus because conditions were too easily removed before they could serious damage and the defensive stats didn’t compensate for how slowly you killed people. Now, in my perspective at least, condi burst and power burst are nearly comparable unless you consider players with cleanses and higher reaction time. That’s when condi falls short.

I’m totally loving that damage conditions are scary at the moment. I LOVE DoT classes and I always have in any MMO or RPG I’ve ever played.

A single condi can be cleared. Any good condi player hits with multiple condis. Even better if they can use those other condi to cover their burns.

Anyone who doesn’t realize that condi builds are easier to play is just fooling themselves. Condis do too much damage given that someone can also spec defensively with that condi build.

So, why don’t we see them in tourneys? If their skill : reward ratio is so low, we should see the really skilled ones dominating. And I can garuntee you that there are really skilled condition players.

PU, Turret Engi, same garbage.

I don’t know why ANET doesn’t get rid of these things so the game will be fun. D/D ele is up there but that’s easy to nerf without gutting it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

style.6173:

ragnarokda.1805:

At first I sensed a lot of animosity in this thread but it seems to be dwindling now. I played condi when I first started and then realized it wasn’t a viable focus because conditions were too easily removed before they could serious damage and the defensive stats didn’t compensate for how slowly you killed people. Now, in my perspective at least, condi burst and power burst are nearly comparable unless you consider players with cleanses and higher reaction time. That’s when condi falls short.

I’m totally loving that damage conditions are scary at the moment. I LOVE DoT classes and I always have in any MMO or RPG I’ve ever played.

A single condi can be cleared. Any good condi player hits with multiple condis. Even better if they can use those other condi to cover their burns.

Anyone who doesn’t realize that condi builds are easier to play is just fooling themselves. Condis do too much damage given that someone can also spec defensively with that condi build.

So, why don’t we see them in tourneys? If their skill : reward ratio is so low, we should see the really skilled ones dominating. And I can garuntee you that there are really skilled condition players.

You probably need to watch tournaments more often. dd ele and burn guardian are both considered meta.

Nier.8741:

PU, Turret Engi, same garbage.

I don’t know why ANET doesn’t get rid of these things so the game will be fun. D/D ele is up there but that’s easy to nerf without gutting it.

I haven’t seen a turret engi since the nerf hammer o_o
PU mesmers… well.. who in their right mind would engage them 1v1?

style.6173:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

style.6173:

ragnarokda.1805:

At first I sensed a lot of animosity in this thread but it seems to be dwindling now. I played condi when I first started and then realized it wasn’t a viable focus because conditions were too easily removed before they could serious damage and the defensive stats didn’t compensate for how slowly you killed people. Now, in my perspective at least, condi burst and power burst are nearly comparable unless you consider players with cleanses and higher reaction time. That’s when condi falls short.

I’m totally loving that damage conditions are scary at the moment. I LOVE DoT classes and I always have in any MMO or RPG I’ve ever played.

A single condi can be cleared. Any good condi player hits with multiple condis. Even better if they can use those other condi to cover their burns.

Anyone who doesn’t realize that condi builds are easier to play is just fooling themselves. Condis do too much damage given that someone can also spec defensively with that condi build.

So, why don’t we see them in tourneys? If their skill : reward ratio is so low, we should see the really skilled ones dominating. And I can garuntee you that there are really skilled condition players.

You probably need to watch tournaments more often. dd ele and burn guardian are both considered meta.

Only burn guardian is a condition build. D/D ele is a hybrid build. And Burn Guardians really don’t do fantastically in those tourneys either.

The build is hard-countered by a sigil. That people consider it “meta” is amazing in light of that fact.

Saiyan.1704:

Nier.8741:

PU, Turret Engi, same garbage.

I don’t know why ANET doesn’t get rid of these things so the game will be fun. D/D ele is up there but that’s easy to nerf without gutting it.

I haven’t seen a turret engi since the nerf hammer o_o
PU mesmers… well.. who in their right mind would engage them 1v1?

I have seen 1 and on his team was a trap thief they were paired with a pretty good group of 3. The rage was real lulz they lost so bad I have never fought such weak builds. On PU if you can’t solo them the team usually outrotate them they are more annoying then efficient. I’m not sure what’s the point of this thread though and the prejudice on condition specs.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

kdaddy.5431:

There is literally no reason atm to run a dps character except on thief or mesmer. Rangers and warriors are not legit options on higher tier play teams and the rest is sustain with minimal damage from condi. thats the game at the moment.

There is literally no reason atm to run a condi charakter except on … uhm … guard maybe?

Burn guardians/trap rangers/ some venom sharing thiefs and some mesmers.

I would say cele players get everything but what makes them so strong is the ability to stack might and apply condi dmg. You look at d/d eles who can apply 3-8 stacks of burn with 20 stacks of might. Thats basically the same as a pure condi burn guardian that can apply 4-6 stacks but he doesnt have the defensive skills or dps burst abilities. Cele necros as well have the ability to have 15 stacks of might and apply bleeding/psn/chill/ etc.

I like burn guardians atm. Maybe a slight lowering of burn dmg simply cause there can be bursted down easily. Trap rangers arent really a huge thing simply because bleeds and psn stacks dont do nearly as burns/confusions/torment.

Back to the point though, if you watch the AG/ESL tourneys any dps player is always tag teamed with a bunker and simply put every team usually has 2 d/d eles. Your seeing some rangers but you can see 1 match there a big help and the next utterly useless. You can though see condi mesmers/thieves/guardians far more often tried in these tourneys because its easier for these builds to survive and apply dmg.

kdaddy.5431:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

kdaddy.5431:

There is literally no reason atm to run a dps character except on thief or mesmer. Rangers and warriors are not legit options on higher tier play teams and the rest is sustain with minimal damage from condi. thats the game at the moment.

There is literally no reason atm to run a condi charakter except on … uhm … guard maybe?

Burn guardians/trap rangers/ some venom sharing thiefs and some mesmers.

I would say cele players get everything but what makes them so strong is the ability to stack might and apply condi dmg. You look at d/d eles who can apply 3-8 stacks of burn with 20 stacks of might. Thats basically the same as a pure condi burn guardian that can apply 4-6 stacks but he doesnt have the defensive skills or dps burst abilities. Cele necros as well have the ability to have 15 stacks of might and apply bleeding/psn/chill/ etc.

I like burn guardians atm. Maybe a slight lowering of burn dmg simply cause there can be bursted down easily. Trap rangers arent really a huge thing simply because bleeds and psn stacks dont do nearly as burns/confusions/torment.

Back to the point though, if you watch the AG/ESL tourneys any dps player is always tag teamed with a bunker and simply put every team usually has 2 d/d eles. Your seeing some rangers but you can see 1 match there a big help and the next utterly useless. You can though see condi mesmers/thieves/guardians far more often tried in these tourneys because its easier for these builds to survive and apply dmg.

I have an easier time applying burns than bleeds and poison consistently in sPVP as trap ranger. While bleed is clearly meant to be our top damage condi, it just kills too slowly even at high stacks. Additionally with all of my evades it’s fairly easy to hold a point 1v2 for a long duration and apply a lot of area pressure while I do it. I think my worst match up is trying to decap a point from DD ele because if they’re played well we basically stalemate until I get +1’d.

Idk, I’ve never felt particularly useless…. But maybe I just haven’t been in that scenario yet?

we either need more condi clears that prioritize burning, or adjust burning in general. Burning stacks with cover condis is the problem

Hot Boy.7138:

I didn’t read the entire thread, but I wanted to throw my two cents in.

Most condition builds I go up against are extremely tanky. It doesn’t seem fair to me that condition users can be so tanky whilst dealing so much damage.

Someone said that people are just mad that conditions kill you slowly. But I can die pretty quickly to a stacks of conditions that are quickly applied. And cleansing isn’t always an option since it gets reapplied more often than my cleanse skill recharges.

Meta build Eles.

Burn guards.

Trap Rangers (they pile their traps on top of each other. just walking on it is enough to down me without any other actions from them if my cleanse is on CD for even 5 to 6 sec.

Engineers to an extent.

I just don’t like that they can apply a lot of stacks in a very short period of time, and if you don’t clear it within 5 seconds, without any other actions from them, you’re down. It’s just not feasible to always have a cleanse within 5 seconds of being ready to use again.

I personally think that base condition damage should be nerfed and should scale with ferocity and precision. That way condi users also have to make a choice between defense and damage. Overall, there should be not much of a change with condition damage output the way it is now if a person chooses to go full into damage stats.

That is incorrect.

you do have cleanses available every 5 seconds or less, in fact, you have many continuous cleanses available on a 1 per second basis. In addition, you not only have condition cleanses but transfers and converts. Remember this is a team game. It takes only 2-3 out of 5 people in a team to achieve this.

Also, you do not need to have 100% condi cleanse, just enough to outpressure your opponent, a good example of this are stance warriors. Yes they will not be able to maintain the cleansing, but they dont need to as vast majority of condi players will be down by the time their health is down to around 30%-50% range unless they are extremely poorly played, which is a different matter.

Now, if you and your team choose not to build correctly then the fault is 100% with you and your team.

In case of solo que this is of course random and you end up with vastly more incorrect builds and incorrect team comps due to the PvE “zerker” influence and the fact that new players are nearly all advised / told to build “berserker” while leveling by the ignorant PvE players. then they come here and experience somewhat of a “shock” as the yet completely and utterly destroyed in most forms of PvP combat.

This is where the true problem lies in this game.

I feel A-Net should at least touch up on build variety and what different types of builds offer via some sort of “new player” tutorial, just to counter the influence of that “berserker” minded PvE crowd.

So i just got jumped by an Engi out of Toss Elixir S with a crate.
That single crate dropped 15 stacks of burning + poison on me thanks to flame turret and incendiary ammo and probably IP as well.
I immediately pop Blinding powder to breakstun and gain invis to clear it BUT……….
Surprise poison cleared instead. Now i have to wait 3 seconds before i get another condi clear.

I was down by the second tick.

How is this considered skill?
Had i dodged the invis crate somehow, IP and Incendiary and doom proc would still have hit me. Still not much i can do.

So explain to me SOMEONE how this is considered healthy for the game? Because really.

GrandHaven.1052:

So i just got jumped by an Engi out of Toss Elixir S with a crate.
That single crate dropped 15 stacks of burning + poison on me thanks to flame turret and incendiary ammo and probably IP as well.
I immediately pop Blinding powder to breakstun and gain invis to clear it BUT……….
Surprise poison cleared instead. Now i have to wait 3 seconds before i get another condi clear.

I was down by the second tick.

How is this considered skill?
Had i dodged the invis crate somehow, IP and Incendiary and doom proc would still have hit me. Still not much i can do.

So explain to me SOMEONE how this is considered healthy for the game? Because really.

You have already complained that SE is not working for you but you continue to rely on it.

Run one of the many other condi clears thief has access to( ShadowStep, Sword 2, Tricks, SoA, Generosity sigil, Purity sigil, Pain response trait).

It honestly sounds like you refuse to run anything but your planned build and want things changed/adjusted because they do not fit your play style(inb4 your a d/p cookie cutter thief). If this is the case you have a LTP issue, considering you have access to having every single one of your utilities to cleanse conditions + a weapon that has condi clear built in.

Edit:Here you go I’ll even include a picture for you.

Flame turret = 1 stack, Incendinary Ammo = max. 6 stacks (3 hits), Incendinary Powder = 2 stacks. Crate alone can’t stack 15 stacks of burning. Unless you keep sitting between the turrts and the engie uses IA twice. Crate and IA are on long cooldowns and thief is currently the class with worst defense and can be “oneshot” by many things, with much lower cooldown.

IA and doom can be avoided though dodging. IP theoretically too as long you are able to avoid every single hit. Which is not realistic of course, so IP is indeed kind of unavoidable. I don’t like this trait, but condi engi in general is not op and nerfing IP would require some buffs for compensation to keep condi engi somewhat viable.

GrandHaven.1052:

So i just got jumped by an Engi out of Toss Elixir S with a crate.
That single crate dropped 15 stacks of burning + poison on me thanks to flame turret and incendiary ammo and probably IP as well.
I immediately pop Blinding powder to breakstun and gain invis to clear it BUT……….
Surprise poison cleared instead. Now i have to wait 3 seconds before i get another condi clear.

I was down by the second tick.

How is this considered skill?
Had i dodged the invis crate somehow, IP and Incendiary and doom proc would still have hit me. Still not much i can do.

So explain to me SOMEONE how this is considered healthy for the game? Because really.

As people above have already pointed out your L2P issues and went over them I will not do so.

However, I will also add that when an engi like that blows everything in such manner then he/she will be out of literally everything for a LONG time.

In fact, its such a long time that when this happens to me on rare occasion I simply run back and kill the now spent engi and take the node, I can do it twice over most of the times before his/her CDs are back up. So thats actually bad play and a “panic” move on part of the engi as in the longrun in loses points for his/her team, not gains them.

So much noob on this thread. Are people actually trying to say that trap rangers are op? They have no stun breaks, a passive condi clear every 10 seconds (useless), and run rabid. Which in this so called condi meta equates to full glass.

If you are dying to trap rangers, venom thieves, burn guards = you suck.

Sube Dai.8496:

So much noob on this thread. Are people actually trying to say that trap rangers are op? They have no stun breaks, a passive condi clear every 10 seconds (useless), and run rabid. Which in this so called condi meta equates to full glass.

If you are dying to trap rangers, venom thieves, burn guards = you suck.

What I loved was the guy saying that trap thieves were out of control.

Do any thieves even use traps? Ever?

ragnarokda.1805:

kdaddy.5431:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

kdaddy.5431:

There is literally no reason atm to run a dps character except on thief or mesmer. Rangers and warriors are not legit options on higher tier play teams and the rest is sustain with minimal damage from condi. thats the game at the moment.

There is literally no reason atm to run a condi charakter except on … uhm … guard maybe?

Burn guardians/trap rangers/ some venom sharing thiefs and some mesmers.

I would say cele players get everything but what makes them so strong is the ability to stack might and apply condi dmg. You look at d/d eles who can apply 3-8 stacks of burn with 20 stacks of might. Thats basically the same as a pure condi burn guardian that can apply 4-6 stacks but he doesnt have the defensive skills or dps burst abilities. Cele necros as well have the ability to have 15 stacks of might and apply bleeding/psn/chill/ etc.

I like burn guardians atm. Maybe a slight lowering of burn dmg simply cause there can be bursted down easily. Trap rangers arent really a huge thing simply because bleeds and psn stacks dont do nearly as burns/confusions/torment.

Back to the point though, if you watch the AG/ESL tourneys any dps player is always tag teamed with a bunker and simply put every team usually has 2 d/d eles. Your seeing some rangers but you can see 1 match there a big help and the next utterly useless. You can though see condi mesmers/thieves/guardians far more often tried in these tourneys because its easier for these builds to survive and apply dmg.

I have an easier time applying burns than bleeds and poison consistently in sPVP as trap ranger. While bleed is clearly meant to be our top damage condi, it just kills too slowly even at high stacks. Additionally with all of my evades it’s fairly easy to hold a point 1v2 for a long duration and apply a lot of area pressure while I do it. I think my worst match up is trying to decap a point from DD ele because if they’re played well we basically stalemate until I get +1’d.

Idk, I’ve never felt particularly useless…. But maybe I just haven’t been in that scenario yet?

Oh no i was simply stating a observation in some of the AG tournaments ive seen. Some matches no matter the the ranger he seems like some all powerful warrior able to impose his will on match.

Then literally the next game hes getting bursted down easily or forced into corners, i dont play ranger alot to say why this happens but they have a front runners ability to dominate in winning situations and simply crumble most other situations.

So forum warriors, if playing condi is easy, and playing a power build is cheeseball, what do you pro’s run that is so difficult/does an appropriately low amount of dd/can help your team win? See what I did there? It’s obviously not you and your build; it must everyone else effectively using the changes in gameplay and build optimization. The nerve!! <3 tryhards that can’t produce. Stop coming to forum to complain, work at it if you care so much.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

style.6173:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

style.6173:

ragnarokda.1805:

At first I sensed a lot of animosity in this thread but it seems to be dwindling now. I played condi when I first started and then realized it wasn’t a viable focus because conditions were too easily removed before they could serious damage and the defensive stats didn’t compensate for how slowly you killed people. Now, in my perspective at least, condi burst and power burst are nearly comparable unless you consider players with cleanses and higher reaction time. That’s when condi falls short.

I’m totally loving that damage conditions are scary at the moment. I LOVE DoT classes and I always have in any MMO or RPG I’ve ever played.

A single condi can be cleared. Any good condi player hits with multiple condis. Even better if they can use those other condi to cover their burns.

Anyone who doesn’t realize that condi builds are easier to play is just fooling themselves. Condis do too much damage given that someone can also spec defensively with that condi build.

So, why don’t we see them in tourneys? If their skill : reward ratio is so low, we should see the really skilled ones dominating. And I can garuntee you that there are really skilled condition players.

You probably need to watch tournaments more often. dd ele and burn guardian are both considered meta.

Only burn guardian is a condition build. D/D ele is a hybrid build. And Burn Guardians really don’t do fantastically in those tourneys either.

The build is hard-countered by a sigil. That people consider it “meta” is amazing in light of that fact.

Now I understand. Since dd ele is best at burning, best at sustain and best at condi clear, they don’t count exclusively as a condi build. Interesting logic, but ok.

style.6173:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

style.6173:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

style.6173:

ragnarokda.1805:

At first I sensed a lot of animosity in this thread but it seems to be dwindling now. I played condi when I first started and then realized it wasn’t a viable focus because conditions were too easily removed before they could serious damage and the defensive stats didn’t compensate for how slowly you killed people. Now, in my perspective at least, condi burst and power burst are nearly comparable unless you consider players with cleanses and higher reaction time. That’s when condi falls short.

I’m totally loving that damage conditions are scary at the moment. I LOVE DoT classes and I always have in any MMO or RPG I’ve ever played.

A single condi can be cleared. Any good condi player hits with multiple condis. Even better if they can use those other condi to cover their burns.

Anyone who doesn’t realize that condi builds are easier to play is just fooling themselves. Condis do too much damage given that someone can also spec defensively with that condi build.

So, why don’t we see them in tourneys? If their skill : reward ratio is so low, we should see the really skilled ones dominating. And I can garuntee you that there are really skilled condition players.

You probably need to watch tournaments more often. dd ele and burn guardian are both considered meta.

Only burn guardian is a condition build. D/D ele is a hybrid build. And Burn Guardians really don’t do fantastically in those tourneys either.

The build is hard-countered by a sigil. That people consider it “meta” is amazing in light of that fact.

Now I understand. Since dd ele is best at burning, best at sustain and best at condi clear, they don’t count exclusively as a condi build. Interesting logic, but ok.

Celestial builds by definition are hybrid. Yes, D/D eles are best or near best at pretty much everything but boon removal (their direct damage is pretty strong too), but that doesn’t change the fact it is still a hybrid build. OP, sure, but still hybrid.

Just the title of this thread is clear enough indication of the prejudice a towards condi builds. It’s like condi players have no right to climb MMR ladder.

I disagree with the idiotic belief that noobs play condi and pros play dps.

Do you guys even remember the medi guard pre June 23 patch? That was a cheeseball easy build to play, way cheesier than today’s burn guardian, it’s not even fair to compare the two. You can easily deny the condi guardian’s damage through intelligent, properly timed cleansing and dodges. It’s harder negating physical damage.

In higher tiered, organized matches, you can’t win with a team that does very little physical damage and all condi givers but you can win with a team of all dpsers that does very little condition damage.

basz.6129:

So forum warriors, if playing condi is easy, and playing a power build is cheeseball, what do you pro’s run that is so difficult/does an appropriately low amount of dd/can help your team win? See what I did there? It’s obviously not you and your build; it must everyone else effectively using the changes in gameplay and build optimization. The nerve!! <3 tryhards that can’t produce. Stop coming to forum to complain, work at it if you care so much.

I agree with this sentiment. GW2 is a pretty simple game when it comes to mechanics. Its just the rotations of conquest that most people fail at.

Most meta builds are considered meta because they excel both in 1v1 and in teamfights, and many of them become easy to play due to their strengths after gaining some experience.

Tongku.5326:

GrandHaven.1052:

So i just got jumped by an Engi out of Toss Elixir S with a crate.
That single crate dropped 15 stacks of burning + poison on me thanks to flame turret and incendiary ammo and probably IP as well.
I immediately pop Blinding powder to breakstun and gain invis to clear it BUT……….
Surprise poison cleared instead. Now i have to wait 3 seconds before i get another condi clear.

I was down by the second tick.

How is this considered skill?
Had i dodged the invis crate somehow, IP and Incendiary and doom proc would still have hit me. Still not much i can do.

So explain to me SOMEONE how this is considered healthy for the game? Because really.

As people above have already pointed out your L2P issues and went over them I will not do so.

However, I will also add that when an engi like that blows everything in such manner then he/she will be out of literally everything for a LONG time.

In fact, its such a long time that when this happens to me on rare occasion I simply run back and kill the now spent engi and take the node, I can do it twice over most of the times before his/her CDs are back up. So thats actually bad play and a “panic” move on part of the engi as in the longrun in loses points for his/her team, not gains them.

What you are missing is the fact that it was 1 tick. Thats faster than any power build while most likely using most likely carrion or rabid gear.which are both quite a.bit more tanky than any power build capabel of even half that kind of dmg.

Not healthy.

I am NOT saying it is OP to run conditions and more specifically burning. I am saying that the story i drtailed earlier and the mechanics behind it are broken and unhealthy for a game where the comat system promotes skillful play and should not passive procs unavoidable procs.

So stop calling l2p loke a bunch of seaguls screaming “mine” and think about the implications of these mechanics.

1. It is not possible to instantly stack 15 stacks of burning with one single skill
2. Even if you had 15 stacks on you, those would tick for about 6-7k dmg per second.
If you die to one tick you had less than 7k hp and would have died to pretty much every sort of burst. 2 ticks mean still under 14k health, which can be bursted down by many power builds in less than 2 seconds.
3. I agree with your complain about passive and/or unavoidable procs, but those have nothing to do with conditions in general. There are similar direct dmg procs and passive defensive mechanics in the game too.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

1. It is not possible to instantly stack 15 stacks of burning with one single skill
2. Even if you had 15 stacks on you, those would tick for about 6-7k dmg per second.
If you die to one tick you had less than 7k hp and would have died to pretty much every sort of burst. 2 ticks mean still under 14k health, which can be bursted down by many power builds in less than 2 seconds.
3. I agree with your complain about passive and/or unavoidable procs, but those have nothing to do with conditions in general. There are similar direct dmg procs and passive defensive mechanics in the game too.

1. I believe the added stacks came from a guardian that procced F1 on the engi or something. It was quite literally 15 stacks just on crate and subsequent AOE, i broke it and SSd out of crate range. Also incendiary ammo can be popped twice in quick succession when running tools.

2. I misspoke, it was obviously 2 ticks as one on application and one on first second.
You are just counting the burning, I had 17K hp, crate and a bit of power from it and other sources was enough to drop the extra 3K HP. Still 1-2 seconds before death at zero skill level.
Still using carrion or rabid, this shouldnt be possible, the only other power classthat can 100-0 you in 2 seconds is mesmers perfect shatter but its DODGE-ABLE. Had I dodge the crate the random procs would still have been there, albeit a few less stacks.

3. I agree it is not just conditions that suffer from this terrible mechanic, however the biggest culprits Fire/Air already got nerfed.

GrandHaven.1052:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

1. It is not possible to instantly stack 15 stacks of burning with one single skill
2. Even if you had 15 stacks on you, those would tick for about 6-7k dmg per second.
If you die to one tick you had less than 7k hp and would have died to pretty much every sort of burst. 2 ticks mean still under 14k health, which can be bursted down by many power builds in less than 2 seconds.
3. I agree with your complain about passive and/or unavoidable procs, but those have nothing to do with conditions in general. There are similar direct dmg procs and passive defensive mechanics in the game too.

1. I believe the added stacks came from a guardian that procced F1 on the engi or something. It was quite literally 15 stacks just on crate and subsequent AOE, i broke it and SSd out of crate range. Also incendiary ammo can be popped twice in quick succession when running tools.

2. I misspoke, it was obviously 2 ticks as one on application and one on first second.
You are just counting the burning, I had 17K hp, crate and a bit of power from it and other sources was enough to drop the extra 3K HP. Still 1-2 seconds before death at zero skill level.
Still using carrion or rabid, this shouldnt be possible, the only other power classthat can 100-0 you in 2 seconds is mesmers perfect shatter but its DODGE-ABLE. Had I dodge the crate the random procs would still have been there, albeit a few less stacks.

3. I agree it is not just conditions that suffer from this terrible mechanic, however the biggest culprits Fire/Air already got nerfed.

if you had used shadow step it would have saved you

as an aside, signet of agility really should,d be 2 condis per ally.

choovanski.5462:

if you had used shadow step it would have saved you

Didn’t have a chance to step back for the removal.

GrandHaven.1052:

choovanski.5462:

if you had used shadow step it would have saved you

Didn’t have a chance to step back for the removal.

it doesn’t have a cast time. shadowstep > return > dodge roll > stealth > backstab, could have been a good manoeuvre.

choovanski.5462:

GrandHaven.1052:

choovanski.5462:

if you had used shadow step it would have saved you

Didn’t have a chance to step back for the removal.

it doesn’t have a cast time. shadowstep > return > dodge roll > stealth > backstab, could have been a good manoeuvre.

240 ping is a quarter of a second. Not quite the best of reaction time is possible.
Besides its beside the point of what i was trying to get accross.
Too much passive dmg in too little time with tanky builds promoting unskilled play.

GrandHaven.1052:

choovanski.5462:

GrandHaven.1052:

choovanski.5462:

if you had used shadow step it would have saved you

Didn’t have a chance to step back for the removal.

it doesn’t have a cast time. shadowstep > return > dodge roll > stealth > backstab, could have been a good manoeuvre.

240 ping is a quarter of a second. Not quite the best of reaction time is possible.
Besides its beside the point of what i was trying to get accross.
Too much passive dmg in too little time with tanky builds promoting unskilled play.

I play on 200 ping also. I’ve had 14 burn stacks from guards and cleansed them with abilities that have cast times.

you aren’t really sure what hit you, but it seems like an Engi and a guard with crate out of stealth. you goofed your condi clear and died. you claim too much damage, well it was two people- but here’s the thing you could have avoided most of the damage with condi clear. still, you did get attacked by two players out of stealth… and they burnt elite skills. that should kill most people, 2v1 stealth burst is hardcore.

choovanski.5462:

GrandHaven.1052:

choovanski.5462:

GrandHaven.1052:

choovanski.5462:

if you had used shadow step it would have saved you

Didn’t have a chance to step back for the removal.

it doesn’t have a cast time. shadowstep > return > dodge roll > stealth > backstab, could have been a good manoeuvre.

240 ping is a quarter of a second. Not quite the best of reaction time is possible.
Besides its beside the point of what i was trying to get accross.
Too much passive dmg in too little time with tanky builds promoting unskilled play.

I play on 200 ping also. I’ve had 14 burn stacks from guards and cleansed them with abilities that have cast times.

you aren’t really sure what hit you, but it seems like an Engi and a guard with crate out of stealth. you goofed your condi clear and died. you claim too much damage, well it was two people- but here’s the thing you could have avoided most of the damage with condi clear. still, you did get attacked by two players out of stealth… and they burnt elite skills. that should kill most people, 2v1 stealth burst is hardcore.

The guard didnt engage on me.

I have tried to recreate this situation and noticed that hits from the turrets don’t proc IA. So crate counts only as one hit and can apply max. 5 stacks of burning (2 from IA, 2 from IP, 1 from flame turrret, which hits 1 second after crate was dropped). Guard F1 only adds one single stack. You must have been hit by other attacks too (most likely Blowtorch and maybe something else).
Crate was actually a huge waste, just to kill a single thief. 2x IA + Blowtorch + some other (auto)attacks can stack 15 stacks. It requires some timing to apply IA 2x consecutively and it takes a few seconds to reach this amount of burning. Enough time to react and only the 2 stacks from IP are (sort of, not even fully) passive and unavoidable.

Also rabid amulet does not necessarily mean tanky build. Most survability comes from traits and skills, not from defensive stats. Rabid offfers only high armor but low health (rabid engi has less hp than your marauder thief). A engi who completely focus on “burn burst” is pretty much only a “one-trick-pony” with high cooldown on the burst (which can be easily cleansed by most classes) and far from great survability.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I have tried to recreate this situation and noticed that hits from the turrets don’t proc IA. So crate counts only as one hit and can apply max. 5 stacks of burning (2 from IA, 2 from IP, 1 from flame turrret, which hits 1 second after crate was dropped). Guard F1 only adds one single stack. You must have been hit by other attacks too (most likely Blowtorch and maybe something else).
Crate was actually a huge waste, just to kill a single thief. 2x IA + Blowtorch + some other (auto)attacks can stack 15 stacks. It requires some timing to apply IA 2x consecutively and it takes a few seconds to reach this amount of burning. Enough time to react and only the 2 stacks from IP are (sort of, not even fully) passive and unavoidable.

Also rabid amulet does not necessarily mean tanky build. Most survability comes from traits and skills, not from defensive stats. Rabid offfers only high armor but low health (rabid engi has less hp than your marauder thief). A engi who completely focus on “burn burst” is pretty much only a “one-trick-pony” with high cooldown on the burst (which can be easily cleansed by most classes) and far from great survability.

I don’t disagree at all.
The mechanics behind stacking that much burning so quickly is whats ridiculous.

GrandHaven.1052:

I don’t disagree at all.
The mechanics behind stacking that much burning so quickly is whats ridiculous.

So let me get this straight; just for the record:

• Your complaining about condition damage.
• You continue to rely on a single form of condi clear that you have already established to be unreliable.
• You expect condi players to not be a threat when not taking tools to deal with them.
• You dont think that players should be allowed to climb the ladder because they use condition damage.
• You refuse to take any advice on various skills to cleanse conditions.
• You blame high ping for delays in skills and use this as a reason not to use the above skills.
• You agree that stacking up condi takes time. Which means you have time to cleanse it.
• You expect anet to change the flow/balance of the game because of the above.
• You expect to do well in a competitive game mode with no reaction time, foresight or adaptability.

Seriously, my self included people have given you some solid advice. You refuse to take any of it. I don’t know what to type or say anymore other than good luck.

Eval.2371:

GrandHaven.1052:

I don’t disagree at all.
The mechanics behind stacking that much burning so quickly is whats ridiculous.

So let me get this straight; just for the record:

• Your complaining about condition damage.
• You continue to rely on a single form of condi clear that you have already established to be unreliable.
• You expect condi players to not be a threat when not taking tools to deal with them.
• You dont think that players should be allowed to climb the ladder because they use condition damage.
• You refuse to take any advice on various skills to cleanse conditions.
• You blame high ping for delays in skills and use this as a reason not to use the above skills.
• You agree that stacking up condi takes time. Which means you have time to cleanse it.
• You expect anet to change the flow/balance of the game because of the above.
• You expect to do well in a competitive game mode with no reaction time, foresight or adaptability.

Seriously, my self included people have given you some solid advice. You refuse to take any of it. I don’t know what to type or say anymore other than good luck.

I appreciate the advice, but you are still missing the point.

The potential dmg on burning from ONE stat is too high.

GrandHaven.1052:

Eval.2371:

GrandHaven.1052:

I don’t disagree at all.
The mechanics behind stacking that much burning so quickly is whats ridiculous.

So let me get this straight; just for the record:

• Your complaining about condition damage.
• You continue to rely on a single form of condi clear that you have already established to be unreliable.
• You expect condi players to not be a threat when not taking tools to deal with them.
• You dont think that players should be allowed to climb the ladder because they use condition damage.
• You refuse to take any advice on various skills to cleanse conditions.
• You blame high ping for delays in skills and use this as a reason not to use the above skills.
• You agree that stacking up condi takes time. Which means you have time to cleanse it.
• You expect anet to change the flow/balance of the game because of the above.
• You expect to do well in a competitive game mode with no reaction time, foresight or adaptability.

Seriously, my self included people have given you some solid advice. You refuse to take any of it. I don’t know what to type or say anymore other than good luck.

I appreciate the advice, but you are still missing the point.

The potential dmg on burning from ONE stat is too high.

So your biggest complaint is that burning is OP? In which case, everyone knows that and pretty much agrees, and other condition users, including myself, hate that because it creates a false view of conditions being OP, when poison, torment, and all the othe damaging Conditions do only about a third of the damage of burning.

Solution is simple:

Make Condi builds require 3 non tank stats for optimal damage to achieve the condi bomb.

I’m sure eveyone would be ok with high condi damage if the player applying it is as glassy as a DPS burst player.

Bleed, poison, torment, and confusion all need damage buffs. The only build where burning is a problem is d/d ele because they get too much condi damage for the amulet they are in. The solution to this is to lower the amount of stacks eles can output on that one build, not to nerf burning in general (maybe a tiny little nerf, but nothing excessive like 1/3 of it’s damage like many suggest). If your dying to condi builds, your either not running enough condi clear, or are not using your defense well enough.

If you think condi ranger, condi mes, condi engi, condi guard, condi war, condi necro, or condi ele are a problem you need to l2p. No one good runs any of those builds with the possible exception of condi guard, and even that is at best balanced and realistically still pretty easy to counter.

Also, I want to iterate this again, burning burst is not even close to power burst in a 1 second timeframe (As in, you can never apply enough burning in 1 second to keep up with what thieves and mesmers can do in 1 second). Anything beyond that and you can react to it, so it isn’t really burst it’s just more damage in a shorter time than it used to be when burning would take 30+seconds to kill someone.

@Traw condition builds already require 4 stats to keep up with zerker damage. Those four stats are power/precision/condition damage/condi duration. In pvp, there isn’t even an option to take all those stats (outside cele I guess). Someone with just condition damage or even condi damage+precision or condi damage+power does not keep up with zerker damage at all currently.

T raw.4658:

Solution is simple:

Make Condi builds require 3 non tank stats for optimal damage to achieve the condi bomb.

I’m sure eveyone would be ok with high condi damage if the player applying it is as glassy as a DPS burst player.

Precision, condition damage and condition duration? Also do you have any proof that dire builds outdamage soldier builds by a significant margin?

Tim.6450:

T raw.4658:

Solution is simple:

Make Condi builds require 3 non tank stats for optimal damage to achieve the condi bomb.

I’m sure eveyone would be ok with high condi damage if the player applying it is as glassy as a DPS burst player.

Precision, condition damage and condition duration? Also do you have any proof that dire builds outdamage soldier builds by a significant margin?

Numerical proof and calculations is what we’re looking for, not stories.