Guild Wars 2

The game needs more. Condi removal and vitality aint cutting it.

How about, they give vitality condition damage reduction as well ?

Like, going for a full main vitality should give %30 reduction to condition damage which would make basic full vitality builds with about %20 condition reduction, if you take less its %10-%15.

That would also make vitality more useful. Also awesome for classes who lack condition effectiveness.

I’d be okay with that. Or One thing that i like is a trait that “x% less condition damage taken for each unique condition on you.” This would be equal to the things like “x% more damage for each condition on a foe” because right now. Conditions have no hard counter. Evading can only be done so much. Blocks don’t always work.

See pure power vs tougness/armor formula
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Why not somethig similar with Condition Damage and target`s Vitality/Health ?

Be warned that a change like this to the primary game mechanic will turn over to WvW and PvE, rendering condi-builds there useless with bosses having high vit stats.

That would make vitality overpowered, since it works on both conditions and power damage.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

That would make vitality overpowered, since it works on both conditions and power damage.

But conditions aren’t overpowered right now at all huh? Yeah nope they aren’t even OP

No, they are not.

So whenever you die the top cause is never conditions right? I can’t remember across any of my characters where the most damage that killed me wasn’t due to conditions. Conditions are way to strong compared to the ability to mitigate them. There needs to be a better way to mitigate condition damage than what we currently have “condition removal” which is extremely extremely limited in several classes like this, warriors, mesmers, engineers. These classes have the most limited “passive” condition removal such as every x seconds. Compare this to guardians, necros, rangers, eles, and thieves which have some condi removal in a weapon set or several passive condi removal.

Then we also have “vitality” claiming vitality is an adequate defense against conditions is one of the dumbest arguments one can make and Anet and any one that plays this game should know it.
Condition mitigation should be brought up to be at least somewhat comparable to condition application. Because it is laughable on several classes.

It doesn’t work like that. You either have to completely unlink spvp from WvW / PvE, or you just can’t make stuff work as intended in both scenarios.

Think about it, if vit stat would reduce condition damage or duration, you would end up in WvW with ~ -80% condition duration with help of food & runes. There is nothing even close to that regarding direct damage. So condition specs would have no place in WvW since you pretty much would immune all damage just by going vit gear + lyssa + food. PvE is already very bad for condition builds both to design flaws and meta (stack zerker builds to kill super fast) as well as the cap on conditions.

Regarding spvp, mesmer – as you play one, have quite decent condi removal / transfer, but that comes at expense of other utility skills which are better for team support / plays. Then again a class with such good options in builds, mobility, escapes, utility, having what you want regarding condition removal / prevention w/e, would just make it way over the top.

Regarding the ease of applying conditions, well duh, it has to be easy since their damage and effects pay off over time, meanwhile you’re doing no damage. If you could dodge conditions as you can dodge 100b and other burst skills, then the condi player would have no chance ever to even pose a threat.

That’s why peeps are annoyed of conditions. Because there is nothing you can do to avoid getting them on you, like you would denny burst skills via blocks, teleports, invisibility, dodges etc. But – that’s intended. The game is not like a jumping puzzle where as long as you time your dodges / blocks etc nothing can harm you.

So stop looking at conditions in a bad way.

If only there were abilities that let you take no condition damage or just remove them. Or abilities that let you avoid the ability that applied the condition to begin with.
Or a set of runes, and possibly traits, that slash the duration of conditions aswell or just passively remove them.

If only we had any of those…

How about abilities / runes / traits that slash the direct damage or just make you immune to it? Not every class has perma vigor, nor stealth, nor blocks, nor stability, nor teleports.

A very good portion of necro defense comes from applying conditions that weaken / hamper the enemy, like chill, weakness, cripple, blind, fear.

Why do you guys have such big problems in viewing this from a non biassed angle, that includes ALL classes. Everything you complain about or want changed, is pretty much directed against necros.

It has nothing to do with necros directly. But it is ironic that the class that deals the most condition damage in this game has some of the best ways to mitigate said condition damage. I (and several others not just me) feel that condition damage out right needs toned down or a buff on mitigating it in all classes needs to happen. One runeset that does -25% is a joke especially in pvp where the +duration is way greater. The fact is there is no DIRECT COUNTER to condition damage. Removal sucks compared to application and is not evenly spread across all classses. Which it needs to be.

Maybe IF our attacks (for condi weapon sets) also deal increased damage? Because pretty much that’s all there is, without stacking bleeds / poison there is no damage going (not everyone plays dhuunfire).

So the problem is dhuunfire, or the bleeds + poison? If my marks did 2-4k damage when triggered on top of their effects, if my AA on scepter broke 1k dmg, then I’d agree with you. But as it stands, bleeds + poison are the only real damaging things coming from a non-dhuunfire condi necro. This also reduces our terror damage since we don’t have the condi duration a dhuunfire spec has, and for example personally, I don’t play with +50% fear duration trait either, I take the -20% cd on spectral skills and LF on mark triggers (because am positive the bug with summoning minions then changing skills to get some LF at start of a match will be looked at soon).

Necro’s don’t have ways to mitigate condi damage. There is nothing that makes us immune or reduces damage / duration of conditions. What we can do is cleanse or transfer some conditions via weapon skills / utility skills. This is based on class mechanics and intended role of condition / boons manipulation (look at signet of plague for example, you get conditions from nearby allies on yourself, it only makes sense to also give you an option to remove or transfer those conditions).

Regarding the removal of conditions: look at it this way. For a necro putting blind / weakness / cripple / chill is a very important defensive mechanism. Since we have 0 vigor, stability, blocks, invulns, teleports, we mitigate some damage by reducing it’s occurance (chill / cripple / blind) or reducing the damage itself to make it somewhat bearable (weakness / blind / death shroud). Comparing to other classes chain dodges, blocks, invulns, teleports, stealth etc, is like saying I want an ability to negate dodges, blocks, invluns, teleports, stealth since their application is not spread evenly across classes.

So once more, look at it from a non-biased perspective.

I had a cool match the other day where I stood in the window of clocktower and freecast for the entire game. At the end, one of the 3 greatsword guardians who was standing in the middle waving his sword ineffectually in the general direction of my bunker for most of the game shared his enlightened opinion that necros need a nerf.

jportell.2197:

So whenever you die the top cause is never conditions right? I can’t remember across any of my characters where the most damage that killed me wasn’t due to conditions.

Nope. This is a trick of reporting system. You see, the damage done by any attack is reported as being done by that specific attack only. So when you are fighting, say, a guardian who is flipping through greatsword and scepter/focus rapidly throughout the fight, the damage done by each of those is only listed as “symbol of retaliation” “blinding blade” “smite” individually. However, the damage inflicted by conditions and by retaliation are indiscriminate of their source, just listing themselves overall as “conditions” that was done to you as a whole. This often causes the damage done my conditions to be misrepresented as being the highest source of damage, neglecting to mention that it was 8 different skills that inflicted bleeding on you from three different players.

Were the condition damage only given to the skills that inflicted it, with procs being the only “ambient” source of condition damage, it would tell a much different story.

It’s really simple: By the time conditions almost kill you, a power build would have killed you twice over.
I guess it’s just hard to understand that damage over time is sustained damage done over a period of time.

Anelyn.4593:

Maybe IF our attacks (for condi weapon sets) also deal increased damage? Because pretty much that’s all there is, without stacking bleeds / poison there is no damage going (not everyone plays dhuunfire).

Maybe you shouldn’t expect doing much direct damage if you just use a Rabid amulet which is pretty defensive in itself :p Want more? Try the Rampager amulet maybe?

Jport, I saw that u play mesmer. While i rarely play mes in pvp since im always necro. After fighting them a lot their r are quite a few ways for them to avoid conditions, at least thats what i see. Invuln, stealth, kitten play(like hiding behind walls while phantasms are attacking), their mobility can be used to avoid conditions(cant stack conditions on what u cant hit), you can stand in null field for 5 seconds to be free for u and your team against any condition build(thats a long time considering they hav to restack for the damage) and i know mesmers hav other ways to remove(arcane theivery?). hmm pretty much the same way you avoid power based damage aside from straight up removal. And condition application should be stonger than removal otherwise conditions would be weak., they will just be hard countered by all the removal.

Melandru runes, Hoelbrak runes, kill the source of condi with burst, cc the source of condi (since both of the current strong/meta -since mesmers spamming confusion for some reason aint seen that much – coni professions cannot deal with CC, well one a bit better than the other with only stability on a 30 major trait).

stof.9341:

Anelyn.4593:

Maybe IF our attacks (for condi weapon sets) also deal increased damage? Because pretty much that’s all there is, without stacking bleeds / poison there is no damage going (not everyone plays dhuunfire).

Maybe you shouldn’t expect doing much direct damage if you just use a Rabid amulet which is pretty defensive in itself :p Want more? Try the Rampager amulet maybe?

And this proves that peeps not playing necro have no idea how terrible scepter & staff direct damage component scales with power. By all means go make a 3.5k power build and let me know how much your AA chain from scepter is hitting / crits for.

It’s just the plain simple reality, without conditions, you do 0 damage. If peeps could constantly cleanse those conditions, reduce their duration / damage, your damage would become non existant. If terror would do 4-5 k damage for duration, I’d whole heartily agree that something must be changed, or if torment would stack higher or do better damage for it’s appliance.

There are plenty of options to reduce condition damage via runes / food, if you decide to not use them, nor to slot / trait towards being better against conditions (like traits that remove condition on heal / skill use, utilities that remove conditions etc) then why do you complain about not being able to shrug at conditions without having anything to help you with it? Is like a zerker d/d ele built for burst crying that he gets OHK by a backstab thief because he has 0 toughness, low vit, and slots only offensive abilities.

Also just a quick observation, most peeps complaining about conditions are running zerker or bunker builds, with good vigor / protection / stability / dodges / blocks / immunities etc (so they have a great array of mitigating / avoiding physical damage and sustain in a fight) and their GOD status is challenged by – you guessed – conditions.

stof.9341:

Anelyn.4593:

Maybe IF our attacks (for condi weapon sets) also deal increased damage? Because pretty much that’s all there is, without stacking bleeds / poison there is no damage going (not everyone plays dhuunfire).

Maybe you shouldn’t expect doing much direct damage if you just use a Rabid amulet which is pretty defensive in itself :p Want more? Try the Rampager amulet maybe?

Ahahahahaha! One minor defensive stat = defensive amulet! This is brilliant!
Does that mean Berserker and Rampager gear are the only offensive sets in the game?

How much defense do zerker builds have to sacrifice to get good results? ALOT. A zerker mesmer for instance (also i am not a mesmer in tpvp anymore hardly ANYONE of note runs mesmer in tpvp anymore.) has no toughness and terrible if any condition removal and this is just in order to get decent results damage wise. Then on to runes. Runes of melandru/hoelbrak. That’s great. While a necro has 60% bleed duration and 50% fear duration lemme just try and get a 25% max condition duration reduction. My god status is not what I am worried about in case you haven’t noticed necros and condition builds in general are god status.

Also how much defense does a condition build have to sacrifice to get their results. Oh not much considering the secondary stat on the amulet most condition builds take is TOUGHNESS. Add to it that runes for condition builds also have toughness depending on the runes. And condition being damage over time is not what is bugging me. The insane amount of BURST condition is what is really getting to me. that is right burst condition. A bunker should be able to stand against 2-3 people for some space of time but if its two condition builds they have no chance of lasting longer than 5 seconds. And well we can try running the opposite and going zerker burst build. But then again how much damage does a zerker do to condition builds? Well not much since their secondary stat is TOUGHNESS. Let’s add to this that necros have the highest health pool and a secondary healthpool that they can now build up extremely fast. And you just tell me what is the benefit of going zerker or bunker? A bunker has no chance of surviving a 2v1 (which they kitten well should) against condition builds. And a zerker has no chance of downing the necro before they are conditioned to death.

The only god status in this game right now is necros. That is it.

Anelyn.4593:

Also just a quick observation, most peeps complaining about conditions are running zerker or bunker builds, with good vigor / protection / stability / dodges / blocks / immunities etc (so they have a great array of mitigating / avoiding physical damage and sustain in a fight) and their GOD status is challenged by – you guessed – conditions.

My “bunker” build runs no boons aside from regen because it is a way to not deal with s/d thieves and it also prevent’s a necro from corrupt booning me. However with runes of melandru automated response and a cleanse in a heal skill if the other team has two necros it ups their chances of winning significantly. This has been noticed by several players. Having more than one of a class should be a liability. This is not the case with necros. What is worse is having a mesmer or the old fashioned backstab thief on your team is a HUGE liability. Do you guys see what is happening with the meta? It is nothing but mindless AOE condition spam. With the condition spammers not being challenged when they go up against a bunker because the defense a bunker offers against condition spammers is just sad.

I think you all are looking in the wrong places for this. Conditions are powerful because they have a single stat feeding into them. Classes that use conditions are then ‘overpowered’ because they can ignore power, crit, and crit damage in favor of condition damage, toughness, vitality, and healing power. The solution should be to first get condition damage on the same page as everything else.

The best solution would be to remove the condition damage stat entirely and just make condition damage based off power. But if this isn’t possible, why not cut condition damage accross the board by a set percentage (30%) and then allow them to crit.

THEN if you still find condition damage to be overpowered (which I can’t imagine would be the case considering it’s so easily avoided currently), you can rework armor/toughness to reduce base power damage by X% and further reduce crit damage by Y%.

I still think the larger problem is the simple fact that condition being a single stat where power attacks need 3 is the problem. We already see the vast majority of bunkers happen to be condition spec’d for this very reason. If you push conditions too hard without compensating how easy they are to negate in the first place, you’ll remove their worth entirely.

The game already needs to put in a Shadowbane’esque style dispel system just so conditions can do their job as it is imo.

**In Shadowbane there was only dispel. Conditions and boons were ranked. You’d need to dispel boons in order to get to conditions and some of the truly powerful conditions you’d need to remove nearly every boon you had to get to it.

…are you serious right now? Conditions are powerful because they lack multiplicative stats?
…
What game are you guys even playing?

L2C learn to cleanse

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

L2C learn to cleanse

yeah let me build for nothing but condi cleanse. O wait someone that does that who isn’t a guard or ele brings jack crap to their team. Im not saying that I don’t bring condi cleanse. I am saying that the amount of condi cleanse that anyone brings doesn’t do enough to give them a fighting chance. We need more than cleansing. That is the point.

So… what do you do against normal damage? Heals aren’t gonna cut it, so… how do you adapt to that?

The Boz.2038:

So… what do you do against normal damage? Heals aren’t gonna cut it, so… how do you adapt to that?

Actually a properly built spec can deal with two or three direct damage people at a time and heal through it. which is the point if they built to be bunker. Right now their is no reason to be a bunker or a zerker. The only builds that are viable are the condition builds. Or the somewhat try to survive against condition builds until your team shows up with their condition builds. It is mindless AOE spam. No thought no requirement for team play nada.

jportell.2197:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

L2C learn to cleanse

yeah let me build for nothing but condi cleanse. O wait someone that does that who isn’t a guard or ele brings jack crap to their team. Im not saying that I don’t bring condi cleanse. I am saying that the amount of condi cleanse that anyone brings doesn’t do enough to give them a fighting chance. We need more than cleansing. That is the point.

But can a single class provide so much condi pressure that another can’t handle it if devoted to condition cleansing? Or is the issue that a Necromancer entirely dedicated to applying conditions is overloading you, someone who only brought a single condition cleanse to a condition fight?

There has to be some middle ground because the amount of condition cleanse in this game is over the top too.

Atherakhia.4086:

jportell.2197:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

L2C learn to cleanse

yeah let me build for nothing but condi cleanse. O wait someone that does that who isn’t a guard or ele brings jack crap to their team. Im not saying that I don’t bring condi cleanse. I am saying that the amount of condi cleanse that anyone brings doesn’t do enough to give them a fighting chance. We need more than cleansing. That is the point.

But can a single class provide so much condi pressure that another can’t handle it if devoted to condition cleansing? Or is the issue that a Necromancer entirely dedicated to applying conditions is overloading you, someone who only brought a single condition cleanse to a condition fight?

There has to be some middle ground because the amount of condition cleanse in this game is over the top too.

Really from who? Guardians aren’t keeping up. Neither are eles anymore (there healing and condi cleansing got nerfed!.) So please I beg you tell me who is packing all this amazing condi clear but can still do good damage for their teams. Oh wait I know the answer NECROS! They have more condition removal transfer built into their weapons than any other class.

Geeez this is mind blowing. So having a guard and ele on your team to take care of the conditions is not enough, you want every single member of the team to be able to ignore conditions – as in, your team to become immune to conditions. So we get back to the meta where there are no condi builds, everything is bunker / burst.

How about a mixed meta, like the current one, where both DD and DoTs are viable and work great together? Did you watch the tourney qualifiers? Did you see that neither team had any problems in training the necros and killing them (even with full LF bar, using plague elite then DS).

Also stealth ganks are based on DD not DoTs, it was showcased several times in tourney with 1 shots even on guardians.

CC tried to run 2 necros in one game vs TP, and guess what – IT DIDN’T WORK OUT FOR THEM. So stacking necros is obviously not working / not OP.

Don’t get fooled that peeps who died from conditions ONLY took condition damage from necro alone. Watch the vods again if you somehow are deluded to believe that.

Which class pulled off a 2v1 and turned an important game for TP? An engineer that’s right. I don’t recall seeing any necro in the tourney coming even close to that.

Would a more gradual ramp up of condition damage (that ultimately did the same damage) be a good compromise?

This would make condition removal more powerful, without reducing the overall damage potential of condition builds.

Thoughts?

Anelyn.4593:

Geeez this is mind blowing. So having a guard and ele on your team to take care of the conditions is not enough, you want every single member of the team to be able to ignore conditions – as in, your team to become immune to conditions. So we get back to the meta where there are no condi builds, everything is bunker / burst.

How about a mixed meta, like the current one, where both DD and DoTs are viable and work great together? Did you watch the tourney qualifiers? Did you see that neither team had any problems in training the necros and killing them (even with full LF bar, using plague elite then DS).

Also stealth ganks are based on DD not DoTs, it was showcased several times in tourney with 1 shots even on guardians.

CC tried to run 2 necros in one game vs TP, and guess what – IT DIDN’T WORK OUT FOR THEM. So stacking necros is obviously not working / not OP.

Don’t get fooled that peeps who died from conditions ONLY took condition damage from necro alone. Watch the vods again if you somehow are deluded to believe that.

Which class pulled off a 2v1 and turned an important game for TP? An engineer that’s right. I don’t recall seeing any necro in the tourney coming even close to that.

i want everything to have a decent counter. Right now condition damage has a terrible counter and it isn’t working. Ease of application vs. Way’s they are removed are terribly and I mean terribly imbalanced. Especially when the ones most guilty of application are the ones that are the best for removing them.

I’d like to remember you one thing, from 8-9 months ago.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27538/gw402b.jpg

Except now its 20k damage from bleeds. 11k damage from fear 5k damage from torment….. But no its not op at all. O.o

This is what i got today. Necromacers are definetly OP. (irony)

This is probably the keyboard most Thieves are running with.
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/90658/usb_nuke_button_1.jpg

2600 armor is average. Btw, always show your armor stat and not toughness. Toughness itself is worthless.

stof.9341:

2600 armor is average. Btw, always show your armor stat and not toughness. Toughness itself is worthless.

“2600 armor is average” yay we should all go bunker in Pvp then.
A poor excuse to justify that damage
I’ll make you notice another thing: these Thieves go in pvp with 900 toughness and still have more surv than an “average 2600 armor” (1600+toughness) carrier.

The issue here is that bunkers always come in two types, I guess – one that tanks over direct damage, and another that tanks condition damage.

Bunkers choose between two setups, IMO: one that focuses on covering direct damage using high toughness and boons (prot and regen) and another that focuses on having rapid cleanses/wipe cleanses and high vitality.

That’s the base issue stemming from how I read it over here.

jportell.2197:

Anelyn.4593:

Geeez this is mind blowing. So having a guard and ele on your team to take care of the conditions is not enough, you want every single member of the team to be able to ignore conditions – as in, your team to become immune to conditions. So we get back to the meta where there are no condi builds, everything is bunker / burst.

How about a mixed meta, like the current one, where both DD and DoTs are viable and work great together? Did you watch the tourney qualifiers? Did you see that neither team had any problems in training the necros and killing them (even with full LF bar, using plague elite then DS).

Also stealth ganks are based on DD not DoTs, it was showcased several times in tourney with 1 shots even on guardians.

CC tried to run 2 necros in one game vs TP, and guess what – IT DIDN’T WORK OUT FOR THEM. So stacking necros is obviously not working / not OP.

Don’t get fooled that peeps who died from conditions ONLY took condition damage from necro alone. Watch the vods again if you somehow are deluded to believe that.

Which class pulled off a 2v1 and turned an important game for TP? An engineer that’s right. I don’t recall seeing any necro in the tourney coming even close to that.

i want everything to have a decent counter. Right now condition damage has a terrible counter and it isn’t working. Ease of application vs. Way’s they are removed are terribly and I mean terribly imbalanced. Especially when the ones most guilty of application are the ones that are the best for removing them.

Same can be said about thieves. The way their direct damage is applied and how hard is to avoid their damage, especially when the ones most guilty of application are the ones best at evading them. Looks familiar no?

Spvp will never be balanced because you have no control of what classes join a match, nor how skilled / teamplay involved the people playing them are.

Back to Tpvp – which should be the main point of balancing for pvp, every team I saw runs all 3 types of classes in their comp: condi, burst, bunker, with the addition of a high mobile class as well – engineer.

Guardian – check. Thief – check. Necro – check. Ranger / Ele – check. Engineer – check. Except mesmers, all classes have a spot in the current meta. Ele or Ranger is a preference of the said team (some may opt to run both at expense of engineer or necro).

If condition damage was so insane, the condi burst so great and unavoidable, am sure necro / engi stacking would have made an appearance in the tournament and probably even win it.

So your arguments that condi damage is too good / strong, are not holding water. GW2 is not a dueling 1v1 game. Nobody gives a kitten how strong or weak you are in 1v1 vs a specific class / build. All it matters is if you are a good addition to a team to justify a spot.

Pve and WvW are a whole different beast altogether.

You just have to look at what top teams are running at the moment to see where we got with cond damage. A few weeks ago teams were running with 1 cond class (engi or ranger), 1 bunker and 3power classes. Now all the top teams rerolled to necro (helseth, phantaram, cc always had one etc) so they play with at least 2 cond classes and it’s not surprising at all to me that the team with 3 cond classes actually won the eu tournament and sooner or later the other teams will copy as always…
so tp rerolled with 2 power classes to 2 condclasses

Vitality can be a better attribute with 1% condi dmg reduction per 100 points invested. That would be small enough to be balanced, but significant enough to warrant using the attribute in PvP, which currently has little incentive.

jportell.2197:

I’d be okay with that. Or One thing that i like is a trait that “x% less condition damage taken for each unique condition on you.” This would be equal to the things like “x% more damage for each condition on a foe” because right now. Conditions have no hard counter. Evading can only be done so much. Blocks don’t always work.

Conditions have no hard counter? Last time I checked wiping/converting the condition’s on you into boons was a pretty hard counter.

To be fair though, there are weaknesses in the comps that are putting out all this pressure.

For example, Teldo’s build has no stun break. If you stun lock an Engi in that build they can’t do anything. Necros have no stability access and if they are alone and you have a good CC combo into burst they will get obliterated.

jmatb.6307:

To be fair though, there are weaknesses in the comps that are putting out all this pressure.

For example, Teldo’s build has no stun break. If you stun lock an Engi in that build they can’t do anything. Necros have no stability access and if they are alone and you have a good CC combo into burst they will get obliterated.

This weakness common to all necromancer builds. The three match-ups that I managed to watch in the tournament, most necromancers died to either high damage bursts from two enemies, or CC spam.

Conditions are fine. Some tweaks here and there may be needed but an overhaul of how the system works is not. If you want to talk about specific abilities that are causing the problem then sure but ideas like the OP are suggesting will cause far more collateral damage than it will fix.

I wouldn’t say all Necro builds. Running Spectral Walk and Armor takes care of that, generates life force, gives you a way to disengage if you use it and blink back to range if it gets hot, and if you use DS and hit Armor you can actually absorb a huge amount of damage. Gotta read the opponent though it’s tricky. Also if you know the other team is running condis too, then Plague Signet lets you break out and send their condis back to them.

I agree on Necro stun breaks being pretty bad though the only practical ones are on 60s cooldown and Flesh wurm is so obvious and easy to kill. Other classes have it a lot better, like Guard’s Stand Your Ground lol. 24s aoe stab cooldown when traited XD