Guild Wars 2

It seems like everyone who is DPS is currently running a condition damage of some form or another because conditions do such massive damage.

For example, in the past I’ve been burned for upto 1.3k damage per tick.

Every time, without exception, the highest post-death damage display always shows Bleeding followed by Burning.

I run condition removing shouts to no avail.

1.3k damage per tick is impossible to achieve. That would take almost four thousand, 4000, condition damage.

Currently the class with the largest amount of burning with the largest amount of condis is engis. In my HGH build, pimped out with undead runes, a rabid ammy and 10 up condi damage tree with 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of corruption, I barely hit 2400 condi damage. That’s a LOTTTTT of condi damage.

Is it over the top? Probably, but that’s the build. Burning ticks extremely hard, nothing should pucker your anus more than burning from a condi class.

I saw it with my own eyes. It was a little over 1.3k per tick. The burning was from a guardian.

Bleeding does similar or more damage.

It’s not really bleeding tick damage, it’s more that Engis, Mesmers and Rangers have insane amount of different condtitions. Necromancer, even with insane amount of 20 stacks of bleeding (almost impossible to stack in sPvP without Epidemic) do waay less damage than any of mentioned classes can apply with no effort really.

According to the wiki, this is the calculation for burning damage:
(0.25 * Condition Damage) + (4 * Level) + 8
shortened to 0.25 * Condition Damage + 328 in PvP.
Therefore without exaggeration, to get 1,300 burning damage per tick you would require 3888 condition damage. Methinks that is unlikely. Unless the wiki is wrong of course.

Ostricheggs.3742:

1.3k damage per tick is impossible to achieve. That would take almost four thousand, 4000, condition damage.

Currently the class with the largest amount of burning with the largest amount of condis is engis. In my HGH build, pimped out with undead runes, a rabid ammy and 10 up condi damage tree with 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of corruption, I barely hit 2400 condi damage. That’s a LOTTTTT of condi damage.

Is it over the top? Probably, but that’s the build. Burning ticks extremely hard, nothing should pucker your anus more than burning from a condi class.

normal burns hit up to bout 600-700 so uh with full cond i think its possible but in spvp im not sure but wvw i think so.

Oh and before I forget; traits, sigils and runes that interact with the burning condition either affect the length of the burning condition (not the tick damage), or they affect how much weapon damage you do to a person under burning (not the tick damage). Therefore only condition damage itself affects tick damage.

Geff.1930:

I saw it with my own eyes. It was a little over 1.3k per tick. The burning was from a guardian.

Bleeding does similar or more damage.

I wish to meet the guardian that has the balls to run condition damage. But more likely what you were hit by was a torch off-hand which has an upfront damage ability that is in no way connected to burning damage.

Each stack of might is 35 power and condition damage; 25 stacks of might is 875 power and 875 condition damage.

If you have 1500 – 1600 condition damage with your gear and get extra 875 from 25 stacks of might, and you get 250 from weapon sigil, that is a total of 2625 condition damage.

Now, you use the formula:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning

Burning is a condition that inflicts damage over time and stacks in duration. Damage is determined by the following formula:

(0.25 * Condition Damage) + (4 * Level) + 8 damage per second

656 + 328 = 976 damage on tick.

Class differences aside, even running condi clears on a hybrid dps guardian the top 2 of 9/10 death recaps is always bleeds, burns and even sometimes poison.

I don’t have any fixes for it tho. Maybe the meta will change itself over time again.

Running condition clears =/= immunity to conditions.

For example, a lot of bleeds are applied as a kind of autoattack damage and are very short. Those are not meant to be cleared but to be the main DPS of some weapons.

If you face a player that puts all his damage in conditions, for sure if you die the end screen result will show all conditions on top. Nothing weird.

And how is getting killed by conditions worse than just being killed by crits?

Was just an observation. I dodge key abilities bad my death cap reflects that but 14k bleed damage and 11k burn is hard to avoid. It just seems to be the norm now is all, I don’t care either way tbh.

I agree condition damage is out of control. Some classes have 10 different ways to apply conditions (some on spam), yet who runs with more than 2 condition cures? We’ve only got 3 utility slots, and passive traits don’t help much against condition spam.

It’s obvious buffs are out of control too. 25 stacks of might? How many buttons does that player need to press to effectively increase their attack by half? Perma regen and vigor, how much skill does that take? They’re just eccentric multipliers in extreme, unchecked builds. And how many boon-stripping moves are there in the whole game, 5? I’m pretty sure there isn’t even 1 per class, as if they should be forced to take it anyway.

Retal and confusion are skillless junk, and conditions/buffs are just another out-of-control factor in pvp (like quickness was for 8 months, and eles still are.)

Condi damage on death breakdown seems to be bugged https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Confusion-bugged-overpowered-all-Condis/page/2#post1721831

Fighting a full glass cannon mesmer, bleed damage was on top of mind wrack and others, by a large margin. Not sure if the death thingy is bugged or what and is showing wrong damage, because that must be impossible.

First stop, the official wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage

Next time you see condition damage at the top of your death recap, take a look at how many hits it did to you. Calculate the # of ticks that went by to do that damage based on the wiki numbers.

Odds are, anyone seeing really high condition damage in their death breakdown took it from multiple sources over the entire time they were alive. If you take bleeding damage from 5 different players over 10 minutes of being alive, you may see numbers as high as 20k-30k when it all gets added up together… that’s way different than seeing a 10k backstab from a single player in a second!

Edit: You could also examine the death breakdown per player by using the drop-down menu.

Honestly I don’t see the problem- people with low vitality but high toughness fall to condition damage and people with high vitality but low toughness fall to crits (Unless you’re a d/d ele, in which case you don’t die ever)

Burst specs have received severe nerfs as part of Anet’s good decision to remove 1-hit KO builds from the meta. Anet could have also nerfed all bunker/sustain abilities, leaving everyone even more unhappy and literally almost every single profession/build taking backbreaking nerfs.

Condition damage is a way around that problem, as it was originally intended. Want to build a high toughness, high healing build that absolutely can’t get burst down? Sure, but it has to have a weakness. Considering how strong bunker eles/guards still are, I’d say we haven’t yet seen attrition damage become out of control. Burst builds then become viable again, since teams have to stop depending on ele/guardian comps that hard counter burst.

the guy who started this thread is he a warrior? cuz if he is theres the answer right there. warrior condi removal is almost nonexistent. and If he was a guard…. then he isn’t playing right lol

Lukrath.6982:

the guy who started this thread is he a warrior? cuz if he is theres the answer right there. warrior condi removal is almost nonexistent. and If he was a guard…. then he isn’t playing right lol

Guards are EXTREMELY weak to condis. The only thing that saves a bunker guard from getting melted by my engi is sanctuary, their shield 5, banish and their elite.

Kaypud guards? don’t make me laugh. Dont get hit by focus 5 and they’re dead in an instant.

Meditation guards have it even worse.

O.O dude. meditation gaurds have 2 condi removals in their heals. and if u trait for virtue removing condi thts 3. with 1 on relatively short cooldown and the other reset by your elite. yes it can be overwhelmed but thats a pretty strong set of removal if u ask me.

what guard runs the signet heal anymore? Absoltue res is strong, but it won’t matter if you leave a guard alone with me. Absolute res becomes substantially stronger in team fights were AoE condi removal and heals stack on themselves to create a self-sustaining bubble of anti-condi-ness. THAT’S where guards shine, removing condis for their teams, not themselves. Any good guard will tell you that their weakness is condis. Forcing shouts at bad times because of condis is just the icing on the cake

If I come against a guard with 25 stacks of corruption and no sanctuary I can promise you that he will die in under 30 seconds, absolute res or not.

i meant meditation heals. not signet. hey…… have we been having a argument/discussion on another thread too? coulda sworn i saw ure name on thief post.

Meditation gives only momentary respite as the conditions are reapplied within a matter of milliseconds to seconds.

yeah i said tht before. you can still get overwhelmed but they aren’t in as bad of a spot condition removal wise as warriors or some of the other classes.

Guardian bunker should go specialized into shouts and bloquing.

Ostricheggs.3742:

what guard runs the signet heal anymore? Absoltue res is strong, but it won’t matter if you leave a guard alone with me. Absolute res becomes substantially stronger in team fights were AoE condi removal and heals stack on themselves to create a self-sustaining bubble of anti-condi-ness. THAT’S where guards shine, removing condis for their teams, not themselves. Any good guard will tell you that their weakness is condis. Forcing shouts at bad times because of condis is just the icing on the cake

If I come against a guard with 25 stacks of corruption and no sanctuary I can promise you that he will die in under 30 seconds, absolute res or not.

Although you’re correct in saying that Guards are weak to conditions. And forcing them to use shouts at inconvenient times is super important, especially if you can get them to use Stand Your Ground.
Only problems I have with what you’re saying is:

• Good Guardians won’t use sanctuary against you so you’re not going to have that problem (they save it for downed allies, it’s only if sanctuary will save you in time for an ally to help you out)
• I can defnitely last longer than 30s against a condition engineer, around 2-3 minutes, if you screw up I can defnitely win that 1v1.
• Symbol DPS builds don’t rely on Shield of Wrath to land, if it does it’s just a giant bonus, the real danger is in the DPS of the symbols and the auto-attack. Not to mention the newer builds are stronger against conditions (they’re in my link in sig).

Everything else was spot on though.

Geff.1930:

I saw it with my own eyes. It was a little over 1.3k per tick. The burning was from a guardian.

Bleeding does similar or more damage.

Someone said it was impossible but maybe that person had might? Was that factored in?

Geff.1930:

It seems like everyone who is DPS is currently running a condition damage of some form or another because conditions do such massive damage.

For example, in the past I’ve been burned for upto 1.3k damage per tick.

Every time, without exception, the highest post-death damage display always shows Bleeding followed by Burning.

I run condition removing shouts to no avail.

http://tinyurl.com/cvbd4e2
EDIT: Forgot 2 traits, seems the rune set on this site doesn’t work properly so:
+ 100 condition damage for rune of the Undead and strength in numbers, kitten this website is buggy

1514 (build) + 250 (corruption) + 875 (might) + 170 (SiN + Runes) = 2809 condition damage maximum on a Guardian (Pretty sure, maybe somebody else can find another way)
Burning:
2809 * 0.25 +328
= 702.25 + 328
= 1030.25 damage per second from burning
MAX

Jax.5261:

Geff.1930:

It seems like everyone who is DPS is currently running a condition damage of some form or another because conditions do such massive damage.

For example, in the past I’ve been burned for upto 1.3k damage per tick.

Every time, without exception, the highest post-death damage display always shows Bleeding followed by Burning.

I run condition removing shouts to no avail.

http://tinyurl.com/d8h3kwq
1514 (build) + 250 (corruption) + 875 (might) = 2360 condition damage maximum on a Guardian (Pretty sure, maybe somebody else can find another way)
Burning:
2639 * 0.25 +328
= 659.75 + 328
= 987.75 damage per second from burning
MAX

Banners? 170 condi from strength…

With Banners, undead runes, 25 might, full sigil of corruption, maxing everything I can think of on Guardian the max burn damage I can come up with is 1027 per tick for an sPvP build.

A necro with Terror can get higher damage from Fear, but I don’t believe a Guardian can burn for that much in sPvP. It can probably happen in WvW though.

Aight so with banners
2809 + 170
= 2979 condition damage
For Burning:
2979 * 0.25 +328
= 744.75 + 328
= 1072.75 damage per tick from burning
MAX (maybe )

On wiki it says Ele conjures increase condition damage, if somebody could confirm that we could break 1.1k ^^

Jax.5261:

On wiki it says Ele conjures increase condition damage, if somebody could confirm that we could break 1.1k ^^

If you applied the conditions then picked it up then sure

If a Bunker Guard can last 2 to 3 minutes against an Condi-Burst Engineer, then the Engineer is doing something wrong. That’s all there is to it. A really good Bunker Guardian can last probably on average of about 35 seconds against a good Condi Engineer (and probably other things like a Necro too, but I don’t interact in that kind of fight so what do I know). Heck most of the time people have no clue what’s going on and the Bunker Guardian can be dropped in under ten seconds.

Bunker’s tend to be vulnerable to sustained condi-dmg output. With high Toughness, Protection, Blocks, Dodges, Invulns, and the like they tend to counter out direct-dmg burst. Condi-Removal only slows it down, it doesn’t make them survive forever.

As for the claim that Burning is doing that much damage, there is obviously a perception issue at hand here. Condi’s can do a lot of damage, but until people understand how the death log works and actually plays them for themselves they won’t have an accurate picture as to what is going on. Burning for 1.3k is one of those percpetion mistakes.

Ayestes.1273:

If a Bunker Guard can last 2 to 3 minutes against an Condi-Burst Engineer, then the Engineer is doing something wrong. That’s all there is to it. A really good Bunker Guardian can last probably on average of about 35 seconds against a good Condi Engineer (and probably other things like a Necro too, but I don’t interact in that kind of fight so what do I know). Heck most of the time people have no clue what’s going on and the Bunker Guardian can be dropped in under ten seconds.

Bunker’s tend to be vulnerable to sustained condi-dmg output. With high Toughness, Protection, Blocks, Dodges, Invulns, and the like they tend to counter out direct-dmg burst. Condi-Removal only slows it down, it doesn’t make them survive forever.

As for the claim that Burning is doing that much damage, there is obviously a perception issue at hand here. Condi’s can do a lot of damage, but until people understand how the death log works and actually plays them for themselves they won’t have an accurate picture as to what is going on. Burning for 1.3k is one of those percpetion mistakes.

If the Guardian dies that fast he’s screwed up, simple.

If we are talking about the ten seconds, I’d agree. If we are talking about the 35 seconds, I disagree. It’s not just from my own point of view either, I’ve seen it via streams such as Teldo as well.

Jax.5261:

Ayestes.1273:

If a Bunker Guard can last 2 to 3 minutes against an Condi-Burst Engineer, then the Engineer is doing something wrong. That’s all there is to it. A really good Bunker Guardian can last probably on average of about 35 seconds against a good Condi Engineer (and probably other things like a Necro too, but I don’t interact in that kind of fight so what do I know). Heck most of the time people have no clue what’s going on and the Bunker Guardian can be dropped in under ten seconds.

Bunker’s tend to be vulnerable to sustained condi-dmg output. With high Toughness, Protection, Blocks, Dodges, Invulns, and the like they tend to counter out direct-dmg burst. Condi-Removal only slows it down, it doesn’t make them survive forever.

As for the claim that Burning is doing that much damage, there is obviously a perception issue at hand here. Condi’s can do a lot of damage, but until people understand how the death log works and actually plays them for themselves they won’t have an accurate picture as to what is going on. Burning for 1.3k is one of those percpetion mistakes.

If the Guardian dies that fast he’s screwed up, simple.

Not quite. And sanctuary is smart to pop in a 1v1 situation if you’re going to lose that point.

As an example, under a perfect scenario (which almost never happens), I end up 1v1ing a guardian at keep while the rest of our teams fight over a side point. If the guardian is under substantial threat of dying, he’s going to lose both that point AND the 4v4 allowing a 3 cap.

I don’t know of any single ability in the game on any individual player that is worth saving to prevent a 3 cap. Dying as a guard 1v1 is probably the worst thing that could ever possibly happen.

hharry.1967:

Fighting a full glass cannon mesmer, bleed damage was on top of mind wrack and others, by a large margin. Not sure if the death thingy is bugged or what and is showing wrong damage, because that must be impossible.

It’s extremely unlikely. A full glass cannon mesmer will do very little condition damage aside from some bleed damage from the duelist and maybe 3 stacks of confusion from a shatter.

Just dueled a mesmer with my bunker engi. I came with 2k toughness, 24k vit, and a reduced cooldown elixir (32 seconds) that converts all conditions to boons for 5 seconds.

Death breakdown included:
10k bleeding
9k illusionary unload
4k retaliation

The mesmer spent about 1/5th of the time invulnerable with blurred frenzy, I spent about 90% of the time dazed, stunned, or confused: not a gg.

Master Charles.7093:

Just dueled a mesmer with my bunker engi. I came with 2k toughness, 24k vit, and a reduced cooldown elixir (32 seconds) that converts all conditions to boons for 5 seconds.

Death breakdown included:
10k bleeding
9k illusionary unload
4k retaliation

The mesmer spent about 1/5th of the time invulnerable with blurred frenzy, I spent about 90% of the time dazed, stunned, or confused: not a gg.

If the s/p combo still works on you, you’re doing it wrong. Only chumps get rolled by s/p.

Nunganok.4590:

Master Charles.7093:

Just dueled a mesmer with my bunker engi. I came with 2k toughness, 24k vit, and a reduced cooldown elixir (32 seconds) that converts all conditions to boons for 5 seconds.

Death breakdown included:
10k bleeding
9k illusionary unload
4k retaliation

The mesmer spent about 1/5th of the time invulnerable with blurred frenzy, I spent about 90% of the time dazed, stunned, or confused: not a gg.

If the s/p combo still works on you, you’re doing it wrong. Only chumps get rolled by s/p.

Nah, GW2 pvp is unbalanced, and unregulated cheese like this is why most people quit. Anet themselves already played out the ‘L2P’ defense, so troll somewhere else.

Nunganok.4590:

If the s/p combo still works on you, you’re doing it wrong. Only chumps get rolled by s/p.

Umm, s/p is a great combo effective at every level of skill. Bunker engies have a very hard time dealing with it due to low condition removal (HGH engies have plenty, not so most bunker builds), and lack of ranged damage to get rid of pistol phantasms (again, offensive builds have grenades…bunkers usually just have 1 ranged auto and maybe one other ranged attack).

So s/p mesmers are in a great position to phantasm, 3-3-2, bleed on crit, whatever. It’s why…you won’t be seeing many bunker engineers for a while.

i just playd a game while im running a anti condition build as a warrior.

21k on bleeding
18k on burning

really now.?

conditions supposed to kil you slowly not instant burst you down
Im sorry this game is ridiculous.!

if this aint fixd soon same with the thougness not working on the warrior at all.
im gonna quit the game this aint funny you cant dodge conditions you can remove them yes but condition stack so fast by the time you remove them they have a stack of 20 on you again and you’re removal skil is on cooldown for 90 sec!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol this^ made me laugh

hharry.1967:

Not sure if the death thingy is bugged or what and is showing wrong damage, because that must be impossible.

Illusions can bleed on crit.

Digikid.7230:

And how is getting killed by conditions worse than just being killed by crits?

Crits, you die fast. Condis, you die frustratingly slowly… I guess that’s it.

Master Charles.7093:

Nunganok.4590:

Master Charles.7093:

Just dueled a mesmer with my bunker engi. I came with 2k toughness, 24k vit, and a reduced cooldown elixir (32 seconds) that converts all conditions to boons for 5 seconds.

Death breakdown included:
10k bleeding
9k illusionary unload
4k retaliation

The mesmer spent about 1/5th of the time invulnerable with blurred frenzy, I spent about 90% of the time dazed, stunned, or confused: not a gg.

If the s/p combo still works on you, you’re doing it wrong. Only chumps get rolled by s/p.

Nah, GW2 pvp is unbalanced, and unregulated cheese like this is why most people quit. Anet themselves already played out the ‘L2P’ defense, so troll somewhere else.

Elixir C (even if it has a “duration”) doesn’t actually convert boons for 5 seconds. You’d have been better off taking Elixir R and using the toolbelt skill to cleanse condis. This is why Anet needs to clean up their tool tips, it’s just bloody confusing.