Guild Wars 2

noobftw.9654:

Snip
Counter that.

There’s no need to “counter” something that’s not true. You’re kittening stupid, that’s the only thing i’ve come to realize reading your rant of one chromosome too little.

1. Blinds counter necromancers, which is the heaviest condition class in the game.
2. There should be counterplay to all mechanics.

Let me explain something to you here, boy. It’s not the condition damage itself that’s supposed to be countered, it’s the application of it. When it’s there, it will either do damage or be cleansed. Blinds do counter conditions.

You don’t need a kittening game mechanic to counter passive play and a void of movement, you’ll just be focused as you stand and kitten around like a kitten on drugs.

tl;dr You’re wrong.

nyqwist.2360:

noobftw.9654:

Snip
Counter that.

There’s no need to “counter” something that’s not true. You’re kittening stupid, that’s the only thing i’ve come to realize reading your rant of one chromosome too little.

1. Blinds counter necromancers, which is the heaviest condition class in the game.
2. There should be counterplay to all mechanics.

Let me explain something to you here, boy. It’s not the condition damage itself that’s supposed to be countered, it’s the application of it. When it’s there, it will either do damage or be cleansed. So yeah, blinds do counter conditions.

You don’t need a kittening game mechanic to counter passive play and a void of movement, you’ll just be focused as you stand like a kitten.

tl;dr You’re wrong.

Nice language of choice. Blind affect less condi gameplay = blind counters necro? Is that all you’ve got? Does blind counter longbow F1, traps, caltrop? Hence, blind affect LESS condi gameplay. Prove it wrong again word by word pls will you?

Yet you failed to give me 1. one condition/boon that only counter condi but leave power dmg alone, 2. one condition/boon that punishes passive game play.

Does focus fire not punish active gameplay? So you are saying as you move you take less dmg? What a load of BS.

The problem is not whether condi is balanced with power. Condi should never be allowed to par power dmg. Since the mechanism and counter is CHEAP. Bursted down by power, you can l2p by doing protection, weakness, chill, cripple, confusion, retaliation, blocking, invul, stealth,positioning, movement….. at the right time. Bursted by condi, what to L2p? Bring a cleanse and press that button? lol, so fun to play and so great to watch.

Condi should never be allowed to on par with power, since the counter mechanism is cheap, unless more counter is introduced. Just like field goal should never be on par with touch down.

noobftw.9654:

Blind doesn’t affect condi build as much as power build, stop spreading your lies. vs power build, blind, weakness, confusion, retaliation, blocking, invul, stealth often means losing all or most pressure from opponent, but not so much when against condi builds. Being pressureless is golden,

But Blind DOES affect condition builds just as much as power, BLIND and dodge is the ONLY reason i can fight a necro for example as engineer, blind in general is my main defense as an engineer vs any class.
How you deal with condition builds is preventing the applications(blind, evade,invul,block/aegis(aegis is a block)) or cleansing(which is far harsher counter than protection mind you or toughness).
It does not affect pulseing fields but they are just as wildly used by power classes as conditions, actually probably more by power builds than condition builds.
Stop being so stuck up on longbow f1(it’s covers too much i’ll give you that), caltrops(who the f.. actually uses them?), traps(no reason to bring a trap ranger).

What you do not get is the damage from power builds happens instantly so if a target stealths right after he take damage from a power user the full amount of the damage has already happened, so the pressure already have happened. is it really this hard to understand?
If i do a 10k shatter on you and then you stealth away is the same thing as me applying plenty of conditions worth 10k damage and you stealthing away while taking that damage in 5-10seconds.

noobftw.9654:

*For once, can you name us one condition or boon that only counters condi dmg and not power dmg

No there is no condition or boon that only counters condition damage but there are traits and skills that COMPLETELY counters it.
And then you have cleanses(which are far harsher than protection/weakness), and if you want me to play your game Name me one game mechanic which completely removes the damage from power damage beside heal/invul/block/eaved/dodge(since they all work vs conditions too).

noobftw.9654:

We all hate one button win gameplay.. blabla

The only “one button win” for condition users is basically Signet of spite which i will agree is a broken and stupid ability and needs to removed from the game.

Letting power dominate we can see how weakness, chill, cripple, invul, blocking, retal, confusion, protection, positioning, movement.. are applied at the right time to counter that 7k backstab

WE have already seen that earlier in the game and it’s just sooooo much more interesting to see someone getting instant killed from stealth right.. right?…….
If condition damage would get as nerfed as you seem to want then what would happen is you would have even more warriors and evade thieves and all you would see would be even tankier setups running around that would be just as boring if not more boring watch.

noobftw.9654:

This game has gone too far on condi, how many times you are downed by condi as VS power?

I’ve gone down to power just as many times as conditions, also have you forgot the memo that it’s not a condition meta anymore it’s the super soldier warrior and evade spam meta right now. Actually i’ve probably been downed far more by power builds than conditions now when i think about it.

But now the stupidest thing you have posted

T*can you name me one game mechanism that punishes passive gameplay, standing still, doing nothing but just healing*.

There is no reason to counter that since doing that is utterly useless and is countered by that person completely useless.

Now are conditions fine, no they are not; especially necros needing clearer animations on scepter/staff, signet of spite removed, weakness tweaked since it way to strong vs power builds and especially if protection is also invovled, revert the bomb radius changes since they were not needed, less random procs from crits/ai procs(especially burn and weakness), less based on auto attacks but this only really goes for necros and rangers since engi autos are quite bad already, condition removal more normalized across all classes so you don’t have some classes having non while others have too many

I don’t want to make personal attacks but you obviously have no idea how to play the game/very bad at the game or are just trolling.
Heck i can’t even look you up on the leaderboards since you don’t even exist there so i can’t even check if you have any experience at all with higher level play than hot join/wvwvw zerging

noobftw.9654:

Does blind counter longbow F1, traps, caltrop? Hence, blind affect LESS condi gameplay. Prove it wrong again word by word pls will you?

Once again;

The counterplay is in the application, not the condition itself.
Conditionclasses rely on their cooldowns, not their autoattack.
Hence when a cooldown is blinded they have to wait for it to return, as for power, you need to attack once, and then go ham again without any waiting whatsoever.

And I do not see why you think that just because blind doesnt counter three of the skills in this game (two of them never/barely used) it would mean that it any less affects conditions? It’s not that there exists a few condition-based skills that cant be countered by blinds, it’s the fact that the ones that can be are much, much more significant which makes it a kind of counter.

One condition/boon that only counter condi but leave power dmg alone.

1. I don’t need to, the actual mutual conditions/boons are enough to counter it, not to speak of “Runes of the Lyssa”. The power-specific counter-conditions, is simply neccessary, otherwise power would be too strong. Though I personally think weakness and chill is a tad too strong, the conditions are there, and they should be.

one condition/boon that punishes passive game play.

2. Once again, I don’t need to. This gameplay counters itself, so to say. If you’re just going to stand still and play passively, you will be more useless than someone that’s active. It’s what differs good players from bad. There’s no condition/needed to punish this. If you and your team (even though I doubt you have one) cant manage a necromancer standing on a ledge and spamming, you should seek advice, not complain.

Regardless, you’re either a troll or a ignorant player, either way there’s no point in trying to repeat myself when you’re simply incapable to take in the words I have written.

noobftw.9654:

The problem is not whether condi is balanced with power. Condi should never be allowed to par power dmg. Since the mechanism and counter is CHEAP. Bursted down by power, you can l2p by doing protection, weakness, chill, cripple, confusion, retaliation, blocking, invul, stealth,positioning, movement….. at the right time. Bursted by condi, what to L2p? Bring a cleanse and press that button? lol, so fun to play and so great to watch.

Condi should never be allowed to on par with power, since the counter mechanism is cheap, unless more counter is introduced. Just like field goal should never be on par with touch down.

How is condition “cheaper” than high power burst damage?

Getting Bursted down by condis can also be l2p by blinding, blocking, invul, stealth before getting hit(just as with a power burst), cleanse, immunties, evade, positioning, movement. This is what i’ve done as mesmer which have some of the worst tools to handle a condi necro of all the power classes beside maybe dps guard(not sure about this), this doesn’t mean i have trouble with them though but then again i rather fight a engi/necro than a s/d thief or warrior on a point aslong as i have my cooldowns up.
Most condition classes/specs also have far less ways to disengage and tools to use once focused than power builds as well which is why they need their “tankiness”, unless you want them to have super high mobility which would make it FAR worse.
And honestly necros and engineer(the 2 main condition classes/specs in the game) are already quite squishy and suspectable to burst even when running rabid.

For the record, the one button gameplay I was referring to is counters to condi. It’s cheap and boring to watch.
Dude, why do you always assume I don’t get direct dmg is instant? I got it, ok? plain and simple. You keep repeating these mechanism affect the same on condi attack and power attack, yes I got it. But does it mean they affect condi dmg and power dmg the same? no.
Why is it so hard for you to understand ? One is passive other is active how can they be affected the same?
Lets use healing signet for example. Does poison, chilled affect all healing the same? YES. Are all healing skills affected by poison, chilled the same degree, NO. Healing signet is less affected by poison and chilled, if you can’t grasp that, well, let’s end the conversation here.

nyqwist.2360:

The counterplay is in the application, not the condition itself.
Conditionclasses rely on their cooldowns, not their autoattack.
Hence when a cooldown is blinded they have to wait for it to return, as for power, you need to attack once, and then go ham again without any waiting whatsoever.

Condi application has a cooldown? WOW they finally fixed it, how nice.

nyqwist.2360:

One condition/boon that only counter condi but leave power dmg alone.

1. I don’t need to, the actual mutual conditions/boons are enough to counter it, not to speak of “Runes of the Lyssa”. The power-specific counter-conditions, is simply neccessary, otherwise power would be too strong. Though I personally think weakness and chill is a tad too strong, the conditions are there, and they should be.
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Rune of lyssa is not cleanse? When using it, its not one button? Does your position and movement matters? Does any condition, boon on you matters?

one condition/boon that punishes passive game play.

nyqwist.2360:

2. Once again, I don’t need to. This gameplay counters itself, so to say. If you’re just going to stand still and play passively, you will be more useless than someone that’s active. It’s what differs good players from bad. There’s no condition/needed to punish this. If you and your team (even though I doubt you have one) cant manage a necromancer standing on a ledge and spamming, you should seek advice, not complain.

Why is mid bunker guardian viable then? No movement needed, not even attack needed. Just heal heal heal. Watching them play gives me epiphany

noobftw.9654:

For the record, the one button gameplay I was referring to is counters to condi. It’s cheap and boring to watch.
Dude, why do you always assume I don’t get direct dmg is instant? I got it, ok? plain and simple. You keep repeating these mechanism affect the same on condi attack and power attack, yes I got it. But does it mean they affect condi dmg and power dmg the same? no.
Why is it so hard for you to understand ? One is passive other is active how can they be affected the same?
Lets use healing signet for example. Does poison, chilled affect all healing the same? YES. Are all healing skills affected by poison, chilled the same degree, NO. Healing signet is less affected by poison and chilled, if you can’t grasp that, well, let’s end the conversation here.

Healing signet argument would be valid if just being the general vicinity of a condition class applied perma conditions on you which nothing can be done about(hint: they don’t).
And yes poison affects healing signet just as much as other heals, mathematically, just not in practice since there is no real way to keep perma poison on a warrior.
Condition damage is not passive, the ability to apply them is as active as applying direct damage. With your way of thinking power is just as passive as direct damage since the damage is done AFTER the attack lands. Conditions still need a button to be pressed to be applied just as power damage. There is EXTREMELY few traits/runes which applies conditions passively and most of them are not worth using.
But Dodge/block/invul/blind/immunity/positioning/interrupt/retaliation/confusion etc AFFECTS CONDITION BUILDS JUST AS WELL AS POWER. ONLY THING THAT DOES NOT AFFECT CONDITIONS IS PROTECTION, WEAKNESS, TOUGHNESS BUT THAT IS COUNTERD BY THE FACT IT CAN BE CLEANSED AND THAT IT TAKES LONGER TIME FOR THE FULL DAMAGE TO HAPPEN

noobftw.9654:

Condi application has a cooldown? WOW they finally fixed it, how nice.

are you just stupid or trolling? Ofc they kittening have a cooldowns, jesus you are ignorant. Now it’s quite clear that you are a troll

nyqwist.2360:

Why is mid bunker guardian viable then? No movement needed, not even attack needed. Just heal heal heal. Watching them play gives me epiphany.

I haven’t seen a good guardian do that in ages since they would be instantly shut down and become useless, and if you would nerf conditions then this sort of play would become even stronger. Guardian is viable not because of their bunker abilities(which is kinda weaker than warrior right now) but because of the amount of support they provide in team fights through healing, stability, condi removal, strong resses

Just the part about what you said about guardians just reinforces the theory of you either being completely unexperianced with anything above 90% team queue pvp or that you are just someone who watches streams and know absolutely nothing about the gameplay itself and just plain ignorant OR trying to live up too your name.

Vuh.1328:

I am tired arguing with you. You work for anet?
For the last time and for the record, these abovementioned condi, boon and dmg mitigators affect condi application as much as direct power application. But condi application is only a small portion, contributor of condi dmg, the bigger portion is the passive effect applied before. On the other hand, dmg application is all that is for direct damage, if you mitigate that, there is no more damage from your opponent and you have no pressure for how long you are mitigating it. You can do lots of amazing things when you are pressure-free. L2p counter condi application is just funny as l2p counter healing signet with poison and chilled.
Anet made the game boring to watch, to play after we moved away from power meta, on the belief that condi should be on par with power. ppl like you are to be blamed too. Condi should never be on par with power. Passive should never be on par with active. And most importantly, field goal should never score as much as touch down. Period.

noobftw.9654:

I am tired arguing with you. You work for anet?

No i don’t but i have a brain.

noobftw.9654:

For the last time and for the record, these abovementioned condi, boon and dmg mitigators affect condi application as much as direct power application. But condi application is only a small portion, contributor of condi dmg, the bigger portion is the passive effect applied before.

What? You are saying that conditions are applied before they are applied now?. Power classes don’t rely on 1 ability either, lots of their damage comes in multiple abilities. You just need to know WHAT condition abiility you need to prevent, which is hard but that is more because animations are so bad right now(goes for some power builds aswell).
And yes conditions deal more(barely) sustained damage than power in a pvp envoirment

noobftw.9654:

On the other hand, dmg application is all that is for direct damage, if you mitigate that, there is no more damage from your opponent and you have no pressure for how long you are mitigating it. You can do lots of amazing things when you are pressure-free.

untill cooldowns are back up which is exactly the same as with conditions.

noobftw.9654:

Anet made the game boring to watch, to play after we moved away from power meta, on the belief that condi should be on par with power. ppl like you are to be blamed too. Condi should never be on par with power. Passive should never be on par with active. And most importantly, field goal should never score as much as touch down. Period.

The power meta(it’s back but with warriors instead of eles) was just as boring to watch with either the super strong bunker setups or people getting instant killed.
The game itself is boring to watch no matter the meta.
Conditions isn’t passive play(beside on crit procs), healing signet, spirits, minions are however.

Vuh.1328:

are you just stupid or trolling? Ofc they kittening have a cooldowns, jesus you are ignorant. Now it’s quite clear that you are a troll

So autoattack that appied 1kish dmg haz a cooldown? Bleeding shot, explosive shot, cross fire etc have a cooldown? You ever heard of perma blind, perma poison, perma weakness?
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Just the part about what you said about guardians just reinforces the theory of you either being completely unexperianced with anything above 90% team queue pvp or that you are just someone who watches streams and know absolutely nothing about the gameplay itself and just plain ignorant OR trying to live up too your name.

Wow, where did you get so much pride from? I am rank 35 not actively pvp-ing just like many others since it’s no fun, boring, non-brainer and dominated by people like you. I don’t watch any pvp gameplay since power meta either since well, what’s there to watch. Focusfire is counter for passive,void action is just BS as burst dmg is counter for healing signet. Even you know warrior is more bunkerish than guard right now and why is that? Coz, the passive healing and abundent cleanse. See how much the meta is determined by passiveness? which is why this meta sucks.

Vuh.1328:

What? You are saying that conditions are applied before they are applied now?. Power classes don’t rely on 1 ability either, lots of their damage comes in multiple abilities. You just need to know WHAT condition abiility you need to prevent, which is hard but that is more because animations are so bad right now(goes for some power builds aswell).

ok, I am done arguing with you. You are right, ok? Condi, boons, blocking, invul affect condi gameplay as much as power gameplay. There you have it. imma go back play some LOL or WOW now in the meantime, good luck to you preventing condition applications and save the game

noobftw.9654:

So autoattack that appied 1kish dmg haz a cooldown? Bleeding shot, explosive shot, cross fire etc have a cooldown? You ever heard of perma blind, perma poison, perma weakness?

So auto attacks critting for up to 4k with no cooldown by power setups isn’t passive play either and is somehow so much worse?
Perma blind and perma poison is just as achieveable with some power classes as with conditions, especially blind(hello pistol off hand thieves!)

noobftw.9654:

Wow, where did you get so much pride from? I am rank 35 not actively pvp-ing just like many others since it’s no fun, boring, non-brainer and dominated by people like you.
I don’t watch any pvp gameplay since power meta either since well, what’s there to watch.

So you are basicly admiting you are completely clueless/unwilling to learn and don’t understand how the game actually works, great now that is settled.. thanks!

noobftw.9654:

Even you know warrior is more bunkerish than guard right now and why is that? Coz, the passive healing and abundent cleanse. See how much the meta is determined by passiveness? which is why this meta sucks.

Even if a warrior can be tankier than a guardian(engi can be tankier than either of them depending on what you face) any team would still pick a guardian over either since guardians actually provide meaningful team support.
And yes passiveness suck, but conditions are still not passive besides on crit proc or from spirits. Healing signet is kittened, which is the main reason i don’t like playing my warrior anymore.

Please get out of this thread now since you only provide misinformation/being totally ignorant and contribute nothing to the actual thread at all and seem to be unable to see what this thread is about.

noobftw.9654:

Vuh.1328:

What? You are saying that conditions are applied before they are applied now?. Power classes don’t rely on 1 ability either, lots of their damage comes in multiple abilities. You just need to know WHAT condition abiility you need to prevent, which is hard but that is more because animations are so bad right now(goes for some power builds aswell).

ok, I am done arguing with you. You are right, ok? Condi, boons, blocking, invul affect condi gameplay as much as power gameplay. There you have it. imma go back play some LOL or WOW now in the meantime, good luck to you preventing condition applications and save the game

Enjoy, but be aware there are conditions in WoW as well.. They just aren’t referred as conditions there but Damage Over Time, dno how the balance is right now but last i heard warriors and mages were running around being totally imbalanced.

sign

Do people still believe that Condition Damage is over the top?

Its like none of the complainers can figure out the distinction between Condition Damage and Condition Coverage.

A Bleed that does 10k damage isn’t powerful, a Bleed that does10k damage stacked with 3 other conditions even if they do no damage is powerful.