Guild Wars 2

Can we please tone down conditions? Or their damage? Or their duration? Or just something here. This is getting extremely frustrating to play in lobbys where literally 90% of the people there use Conditions as their main form of damage.

what profession are you playing?

some professions are weak against conditions while some have very good condition management.

for example, warriors have lots of methods to deal with conditions.

IF you player a warrior, long as you are not brain dead you should have no problems with conditions.

Point is .Conditions make the game not fun.Period.Skill based and active combat my kitten.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what profession are you playing?

some professions are weak against conditions while some have very good condition management.

for example, warriors have lots of methods to deal with conditions.

Elementalist. I know I have Diamond Skin and a few condition cleanses, but the sheer amount of conditions is driving me nuts.

Well An idea would be anti condition armor XD. Make an ammy that reduces condition damage but has no toughness.

Conditions are an issue in GW2 because:

• Conditions in general are often tied to instant, passive procs on sigils and traits. Instant, passive procs are an issue in a game that was originally supposed to have combat that revolves around reading your opponent’s attack cues.
• Damage conditions are often tied to skills that can be spammed.
• Conditions are often tied to skills that have no risk to being used immediately when off cool-down and don’t require any keen aim, positioning or timing to use.

ANet needs to look at how conditions arrive on the battlefield and put more limitations on condition spam via the addition of longer cast-times, channel skills, and post-cast delays. As it stands, it’s far too easy to just dump every condition under the sun onto a target and run around until it bleeds out half of its hp. It turns combat into a mindless spam fest whether it be a team fight or a 1v1.

If applying conditions (especially large amounts of damaging conditions) required more aim, timing, positioning and total cast-time, we could then look at the level of condition removal present in the game and adjust it accordingly so that conditions wouldn’t be entirely negated from combat.

Things that are fun:
- Stuff I do that I enjoy and/or that kills other players.

Things that are not fun:
- Stuff others do that I do not enjoy and/or that kills me.

Qaelyn.7612:

Things that are fun:
- Stuff I do that I enjoy and/or that kills other players.

Things that are not fun:
- Stuff others do that I do not enjoy and/or that kills me.

The amount of DoT that conditions can do in GW2 is a little unreasonable given that there’s no “holy trinity.” Some professions and play-style set-ups end up just being helpless against mindless condition spam that carries no personal risk to the spam caster or real limit on the amount of conditions that it can pump out. Moreover, a lot of the most powerful condition spam comes from ranged attacks. This combines to make landing condition spam typically far less difficult than auto-attacking an enemy to death with a melee weapon.

There’s no aim, there’s no risk, there’s not a lot of a cool-down. It’s imbalanced and we should look critically at the state of condition spam in GW2.

I met some staff necro who just bursted me down with conditions yesterday with Signet of Spite. That’s right – BURSTED. To a semi-bunker 30/30 water/arcane spec staff ele with close to 20k hp, dead or almost dead at 10 sec. The initial water +healing rain cleanse/heals didn’t do much and he just reapplied conditions afterwards and the neverending freeze prevented me from going to water again. So I was crawling watching my hp go down insanely quick.

This happened multiple times and I was forced to flee after the few seconds it took to spam me with conditions. Sure if I pay close attention to that 1/2 second cast window I can dodge Signet of Spite but I have a hard time identifying the dam icon in the first place too. Not to mention the other aoe’s applications are barely avoidable.

He doesn’t even need the signet. We 1v1’ed and he walked into all my CC’s like a nitwit running into my node while pretty much all my aoe’s landed. All while he spammed conditions on the go. And it was still an even match. Hell, he didn’t even go into Death Shroud. I pity any other foo who goes against him and if the necro actually tried.

Admittedly, he sucked in groups and he drops at the ball of a hat and I just had to flee for like 10 sec after he doused me with conditions but that’s just that. 2-4 sec of him casting took me out of the battle while he could continue working at other’s. Reminds me of WoW when necros just pewpew’ed DoT’s and kited watching them bleed to certain death.

Biomanz.9302:

I met some staff necro who just bursted me down with conditions yesterday with Signet of Spite. That’s right – BURSTED. To a semi-bunker 30/30 water/arcane spec staff ele with close to 20k hp, dead or almost dead at 10 sec. The initial water +healing rain cleanse/heals didn’t do much and he just reapplied conditions afterwards and the neverending freeze prevented me from going to water again. So I was crawling watching my hp go down insanely quick.

This happened multiple times and I was forced to flee after the few seconds it took to spam me with conditions. Sure if I pay close attention to that 1/2 second cast window I can dodge Signet of Spite but I have a hard time identifying the dam icon in the first place too. Not to mention the other aoe’s applications are barely avoidable.

He doesn’t even need the signet. We 1v1’ed and he walked into all my CC’s like a nitwit running into my node while pretty much all my aoe’s landed. All while he spammed conditions on the go. And it was still an even match. Hell, he didn’t even go into Death Shroud. I pity any other foo who goes against him and if the necro actually tried.

Admittedly, he sucked in groups and he drops at the ball of a hat and I just had to flee for like 10 sec after he doused me with conditions but that’s just that. 2-4 sec of him casting took me out of the battle while he could continue working at other’s. Reminds me of WoW when necros just pewpew’ed DoT’s and kited watching them bleed to certain death.

You meant affliction warlock? Yeah, I remember that too. Dot dot and watch them die pretty much come from aff lock. They were so kitten strong at doing it for 11 seasons straight!, that we had to wait until mist of pandaria to finally nerf dot changing dispel mechanic. That’s pretty much what is happening with necro right now. Anet are not nerfing necro, but buffing the mechanic of other class.

toughness affecting condition damage would solve a lot of problems I have with the way this game plays out atm. Consider it, full glass power spec’s would have a good reason to start running toughness while condition damage would be toned down across the board . So 2 problems(extreme physical and cond burst) solved with 1 solution. Simple and would be effective no?

Imho the problem with conditions lies in the fact that most condition based attacks CANNOT be dodged and are RANGED.

Think about the vast majority of the Power based attacks:

Warrior:
_Earthshaker
_Eviscerate
_Hundred Blades

Thief:
_Pistol Whip
_Backstab
_Larceneous Strike
_Heartseeker

Guardian
_Whirling Wrath
_Zealot Defense

Elementalist
_All staff attacks
_Dragon Tooth
_Burning Speed
_Churning Earth
_Phoenix

Ranger:
_Maul
_Rapid Fire

Mesmer:
_Phantasms (can be easily dodged by good players, at least the first attack)
_Mind Wrack (it’s istant, but requires good managing of clones to be correctly landed)

All these skills MUST be set up in order to be correctly executed. Good players won’t have much problem realizing when to dodge a backstab and all the other attacks are easily readable and avoidable UNLESS they are CC-ed. Landing a POWER based combo requires a lot of effort if the two player fighting are any good. Not only this: the user must give up all the defensive stats in order to do a decent amount of damage.

Now, let’s look about condis:

Necro:
_Marks (0,75s cast time, the casting animation is almost the same for each mark)
_Signet of Spite (0,75s cast time)
_Dhuumfire (random proc)
_Scepter Autoattack (autoattack)
_Doom (istant)
_Tainted Shakles (0,25s cast time)

Engis:
_Nades (PBAoE, travel time non existant if fighting on point, same casting animation)
_Bombs (almost the same as above)
_AT LEAST the pistol lets the opponent understand what the engi is doing (assuming enough distance between the target)
_Incendiary power (random proc)
_Bleed on crit (random proc)
Warrior:
_Flurry (0,5 cast time, but at least is melee)
_Impale (0,5s cast time, animation is readable but very hard to avoid unless predicted or at long range)
_Pin Down (shouldn’t even talk about the broken-ness of this skill)
_Combustive Shot (travel time non existant if fighting on point, unavoidable AoE long lasting fire field)

Mesmers:
_All random bleed on crit procs
_Clones autos (especially staff autos which inflict burning)
_Phantasms autos

Ranger:
_Sun spirit (random proc)
_Split blade (0,75s cast time, CAN be avoided because the casting animation is readable in melee, assuming low clutter)
_Throw Torch (0,5s cast time, really difficult to dodge if melee unless predicted)
_AT LEAST the SB auto requires you to flank the enemy

Thief
_I’d say they are the only “balanced” condition based class in sPvP, because their condition application requires the venoms to be any effective, and venoms can be dodged, are not spammy, are single target and take up utility slots.

Considered this, there is a HUGE difference in how Conditions and Power based attacks work. You CAN dodge/protect yourself from power based attacks, which usually require a proper set up to be landed. You CANT protect yourself from conditions, unless you heavily spec into condi removal or are a Zerker Stance Warrior/AR engi, because no matter what you do, you WILL get that dhuumfire proc, you WILL get hit by those nades, you WILL eat that Pin Down. There is no counterplay, unless you don’t get hit AT ALL by the enemy, but this scenario only occurs if the skill gap between the two players is not so high.

IMO theres just not to much of a draw back to running condi, you do almost as much as burst + being more tanky + overtime effect?

I have a few suggestions, some may be broken others may be more fair. But I suggest with this idea in mind. “Something has to be a standard drawback within condi builds that work against it inherently.” All to promote skillful play.

I hear a lot of people use the argument that you have to run a condi remover skill like you have to do with stun breakers, but lets be fair tho. Stun break skills usually do something else and you would have used the skill in a lot of situations beyond just clearing a stun.

Condi removers are very much “I ran this skill specifically to remove conditions. fm-build.. -_-” Except for the few cases like smite condition, where you’d have run it anyways.

That being said I don’t find stun breaker skills OP but perhaps the solution over all is to make secondary effects interchangeable. Instead of a skill being a stun breaker it removes 2 conditions by choice, (while making the hard condi remover skills more potent and designed for support or bunker builds.) and perhaps this can even build class diversity and the meta over time.

… After all that tho I realize that’s a highly unlikely thing. More useful skills that are condi removers as well would be one of my first suggestions.

Duration? I don’t mind that a lot of these tick hard when built for it, perhaps maybe giving “bursty/spike” options to classes who don’t have as effective power scaling skills. But to many skills proc a base duration that is just way to long. “Pin down” I’ll use as an example, I’m cool with the 6 stacks of bleeds but 12 seconds base? Isn’t that a bit much? If a player wants a longer duration speccing into it isn’t a problem but these base numbers should not be this high.

Stats? Maybe there is just to much stat wise? I only say this due to what is gained vs what is lost within the builds. So perhaps cutting the vit off of Rampagers. Then turning Carrion, Rabid, and Shaman, into only 2 stat amulets? Like
Carrion = Condi + Power

Rabid = Condi + Vit (changed from toughness)

Shaman = Condi + healing power

^ Also make Rabid and Shaman 798 condi.

An alternate idea to the amulet is to make a 10% condition duration stat replace the defensive stat of some of the amulets. For Shaman it would be the toughness being replaced keeping the healing power, and for Rabid it would be the precision that’s dropped. But instead of toughness for rabid making the stat a vitality option. With this change, the condition duration stats on runes should be exchanged, however keeping sigil of malice as an option.

I’m also in favor of toughness effecting it but I do feel there are better alternatives. However I think it would be a good idea of including the original effect of vulnerability back along with such a change.

Poplolita.2638:

Biomanz.9302:

I met some staff necro who just bursted me down with conditions yesterday with Signet of Spite. That’s right – BURSTED. To a semi-bunker 30/30 water/arcane spec staff ele with close to 20k hp, dead or almost dead at 10 sec. The initial water +healing rain cleanse/heals didn’t do much and he just reapplied conditions afterwards and the neverending freeze prevented me from going to water again. So I was crawling watching my hp go down insanely quick.

This happened multiple times and I was forced to flee after the few seconds it took to spam me with conditions. Sure if I pay close attention to that 1/2 second cast window I can dodge Signet of Spite but I have a hard time identifying the dam icon in the first place too. Not to mention the other aoe’s applications are barely avoidable.

He doesn’t even need the signet. We 1v1’ed and he walked into all my CC’s like a nitwit running into my node while pretty much all my aoe’s landed. All while he spammed conditions on the go. And it was still an even match. Hell, he didn’t even go into Death Shroud. I pity any other foo who goes against him and if the necro actually tried.

Admittedly, he sucked in groups and he drops at the ball of a hat and I just had to flee for like 10 sec after he doused me with conditions but that’s just that. 2-4 sec of him casting took me out of the battle while he could continue working at other’s. Reminds me of WoW when necros just pewpew’ed DoT’s and kited watching them bleed to certain death.

You meant affliction warlock? Yeah, I remember that too. Dot dot and watch them die pretty much come from aff lock. They were so kitten strong at doing it for 11 seasons straight!, that we had to wait until mist of pandaria to finally nerf dot changing dispel mechanic. That’s pretty much what is happening with necro right now. Anet are not nerfing necro, but buffing the mechanic of other class.

Yep, and I was a mage which made it 2x more frustrating. God forbid ANet introduces an anti-cleanse mechanic warlocks had like dealing XXX damage on condition removal lol. Or a resilience-like stat to reduce critical and condition damage which I’m actually worried about since this is similar to what happened in WoW with the power-creeping.

Lopez.7369:

I’m not really sure how Signet of Spite can burst anyone down. It applies two to four bleeds, a poison and maybe burn. It also doesn’t apply “freeze.”

It’s an incredible tool for securing kills, but it’s not burst.

The “problem” with Signet of Spite is not only the damage it provides ALONE.
Rather, it’s the fact that you will get suddenly unloaded with 6 different conditions with a long duration). Unless you have Lyssa runes (with your elite ready), have Contemplation of Purity or something similar, you will have a hard time cleansing all of them.
Those conditions will cover up all the bleeds, torment, poison and burning you will receive. While it may not kill you directly, either you blow all your condition removal utilities to cleanse them (leaving you open to other marks, scepter autos or dhuumfire procs) or you just die because you were not able to cleanse the important conditions.

It would be nice if someone could decide himself which condition to clear each time they use a cleanse :/

Lopez.7369:

Right. That’s why the conditions applied by Signet of Spite should be halved in duration in PvP. I’m only disputing someone’s claim that it’s possible to burst with it.

Condition builds would be literally ruined by a selective cleansing system or even a system that prioritized the most recently applied condition. Either option means bleed stacks would go first every single time.

I meant “burst” to mean I was downed or near dead in about 10 sec after I was spited and unloaded with all the conditions which is an extremely short duration. The 6 conditions on top of whatever I had serve as good protection against cleansing the really damaging bleeds + poison/chill that really cripples any recovery. Tack on a fear and you’re pretty much screwed. All the while he’s continuing stacking conditions on you..

When I get doused with conditions that my hp nearly goes empty in 10 sec with very little input from the necro and little I can do about it to stop it, I consider that somewhat bursty, yes.

Funny I haven’t seen any input from a dev regarding this issue that suggests they somehow don’t take these discussions seriously. Don’t trivialize these discussions by guessing devs or players don’t take these seriously especially when conditions are a hot topic these days.

Biomanz.9302:

… Don’t trivialize these discussions by guessing devs or players don’t take these seriously especially when conditions are a hot topic these days.

Wait, what? In a world dominated by bunker guardians, hambows, minion masters and dp thieves, people still complain about conditions?

I do agree that some condition applying attacks need more counterplay and that passive procs are a bad idea, but overall condi specs aren’t all that strong at the moment. They aren’t dominant in 1v1 and they are relatively weak in teamfights until the bunker guard is down.

Monkeymonger.9235:

I do agree that some condition applying attacks need more counterplay and that passive procs are a bad idea,

That’s what I was trying to pinpoint but guess my wording wasn’t clear. I’m not complaining about the damage but the hard-to-counter applications of conditions.

every time i see engi on enemy team i want to uninstall…. tanky, absurd dmg, absurd condi, dazes dazes dazes… can’t do kitten against it

lately every match was just pure frustration due to engis mindless condi spam but i guess this is how we suppose to play: play bunker and spam condis/aoes on point….if you can’t then don’t even bother doing pvp in this game heh