Guild Wars 2

Admittedly, I only sPVP, so yes I am a noob, but regardless, are conditions and AOE as dominating at higher level PVP as they are in the lower levels? In my opinion, there are too many classes who can simply drop stuff on the ground and forget about it, very little skill. Sure you can dodge through it (AOE), but the amount that can be put out is simply off-putting.

As far as condi is concerned, is it as OP as it seems? Is this ANET’s plan to force teams to use healing classes to cleanse conditions? That’s the only reasonable explanation I can come up with. If this is the case, it seems like ANET is strictly catering to their uber competitive E-sport crowd, which is fine I guess, but the masses are what pay the bills and barely anyone runs healing support comps to cleanse teamates in sPVP, therefore condi necros, condi mesmers, condi revs, etc. feeling so overpowering. I’ve met SEVERAL necromancers, with whom I have chatted, that laugh at how easy and blatanly OP condi necro is. Some even admitted to not having played necro before and just rolled it “to get PIPs”. Condi-mesmer is at least a bit harder to play, but the pain put it is just the same and in some cases more.

What are your thoughts? Again, I am a normal player (probably a bad lol), but just wanted to express my opinion and frustrations.

Condi necro is OP, but condi mesmer isn’t. The widespread introduction of new powerful AOE skills (both power and condi) and CC negatively affects all tiers of PvP, and your insight that ANet is compensating with the introduction of healing classes (tempest, druid) is probably right, although the cleric tempest role isn’t dissimilar to the old bunker guard.

There is always an aurashare ele in diamond – legendary. If you dont have one, you lose.

Well to be quite honest , I would consider the ‘problem’ with conditions more a meta problem especially for reapers. You see back in the day (before HoT) people ran much, much more condition cleanses then now. With the introduction of HoT a lot of classes dropped their condition cleanses for the elite spec. So it is only normal that conditions start rising back again.

Reaper in itself is even more anti meta since everyone still relies heavly on boons. It can also suppress a lot of condi specs themselves with their transfers. However there are som other factors that push reaper to the top. Reaper has a lower skill floor which makes it a bit easier to get results with. Also condi reapers are specs which have to be handled differently. You can’t just focus on your strengths and win, they will turn it against you, you have to focus on their weaknesses.

Tim.6450:

Also condi reapers are specs which have to be handled differently. You can’t just focus on your strengths and win, they will turn it against you, you have to focus on their weaknesses.

This is 100% true, and probably the root of why Reapers are so easy to have decent performance with. Their actual output on damage and defense are nowhere close to the top, but they turn strengths against you, amplifying their own power. But people don’t react to this properly.

If you try to fight a Reaper like you fight everyone else, you will almost always lose. You can’t rely on your own build’s strengths. Instead, you have to exploit the Reaper’s weaknesses (and yes, they do have them!).

This becomes quite clear if you look at the top tiers of PvP where more than one Reaper on a team generally means that team loses. The players at that level know how to exploit weaknesses (such as the fact Reapers really can’t handle focus fire and are pinballs outside of Shroud, nor can they rotate well).

Tim.6450:

Well to be quite honest , I would consider the ‘problem’ with conditions more a meta problem especially for reapers. You see back in the day (before HoT) people ran much, much more condition cleanses then now.

No, players have even more condi clear and still can’t keep up with the massive amounts of brainless condi spam. Power revenant is about the only one without heavy condi clear, but it gets by with evades and glint heal.

Exedore.6320:

Tim.6450:

Well to be quite honest , I would consider the ‘problem’ with conditions more a meta problem especially for reapers. You see back in the day (before HoT) people ran much, much more condition cleanses then now.

No, players have even more condi clear and still can’t keep up with the massive amounts of brainless condi spam. Power revenant is about the only one without heavy condi clear, but it gets by with evades and glint heal.

Really? Because most of the meta builds are way light on condi cleanse. Only ones that aren’t are Reapers, Tempest, and Druid. And Druid is iffy.

Scrapper has Healing Turret, Transmute, Elixir use removing condis, and if they run Adaptive Armor, reduced condi duration.

Condi mesmer is blocking, evading, or invis most of the time, so it doesn’t care.

That leaves non-Mallyx (power) Revenant as the only one which has trouble with condis. Druid and Dragon Hunter are barely hanging in the meta.

Exedore.6320:

Scrapper has Healing Turret, Transmute, Elixir use removing condis, and if they run Adaptive Armor, reduced condi duration.

Condi mesmer is blocking, evading, or invis most of the time, so it doesn’t care.

That leaves non-Mallyx (power) Revenant as the only one which has trouble with condis. Druid and Dragon Hunter are barely hanging in the meta.

So 3 every 20 seconds, 1 every 15 seconds, 1 every 32 and 1 every 48. Thats 0.26875 condi cleansed per second. The shoutbow build of the past ran cleansing ire (4 every 10 I know theoritical 6 but 4 was quite common), 2~3 shouts with runes of the trooper (3 every 20) and traited warhorn (2 every 12 and 1 every 16). Resulting in a 0.77916666666… conditons cleansed per second around 3 times as much as the scrapper.
Another example would be ranger. Empathic bond was back then standard which dealt with 3 conditions every 10 seconds. They ran this with other condition cleanses (I think before june patch, people could even run wildnerness survival with empathic bond) resulting in over 0.3 conditons per second cleansed. Which in itself is more then that scrapper.

Tim.6450:

Exedore.6320:

Scrapper has Healing Turret, Transmute, Elixir use removing condis, and if they run Adaptive Armor, reduced condi duration.

Condi mesmer is blocking, evading, or invis most of the time, so it doesn’t care.

That leaves non-Mallyx (power) Revenant as the only one which has trouble with condis. Druid and Dragon Hunter are barely hanging in the meta.

So 3 every 20 seconds, 1 every 15 seconds, 1 every 32 and 1 every 48. Thats 0.26875 condi cleansed per second. The shoutbow build of the past ran cleansing ire (4 every 10 I know theoritical 6 but 4 was quite common), 2~3 shouts with runes of the trooper (3 every 20) and traited warhorn (2 every 12 and 1 every 16). Resulting in a 0.77916666666… conditons cleansed per second around 3 times as much as the scrapper.
Another example would be ranger. Empathic bond was back then standard which dealt with 3 conditions every 10 seconds. They ran this with other condition cleanses (I think before june patch, people could even run wildnerness survival with empathic bond) resulting in over 0.3 conditons per second cleansed. Which in itself is more then that scrapper.

I don’t know where the 1 every 48 is from, but the elixir B (presumably) toolbelt has a 20s cooldown, healing mist has 28s and super elixir 16s cooldown. I won’t count elixir x uses for condi removals, and it’s possible to electro-whirl in the super elixir field for cleansing bolts.

So 3/20, 1/15, 1/32, 1/20, 1/28 and 1/16 to give 0.39 per second with the possibility of another 2/16 from whirling in super elixir for 0.52 per second total. That’s probably more than it used to be, but engis were always weak to condis.

Shoutbows also had a passive shout that removed 2 every 20s, and brawler’s recovery removing another 1 every 5s. They could even run both sigil of generosity and purity if they wanted to and only need two slots.

That’s 4/10, 5/20 (FGJ and 2x Shake it Off,) 2/12 (it can remove cripple, chill and immob all at once, but I’ll assume people only have 1 at a time,) 1/16 and 1/5 for 1.07 cleanses per second or 1.27 if they did actually use both sigils.

Given than the shout and warhorn cleanses were aoes, shoutbow alone kept away a lot of condi builds.

Serval.6458:

Tim.6450:

Exedore.6320:

Scrapper has Healing Turret, Transmute, Elixir use removing condis, and if they run Adaptive Armor, reduced condi duration.

Condi mesmer is blocking, evading, or invis most of the time, so it doesn’t care.

That leaves non-Mallyx (power) Revenant as the only one which has trouble with condis. Druid and Dragon Hunter are barely hanging in the meta.

So 3 every 20 seconds, 1 every 15 seconds, 1 every 32 and 1 every 48. Thats 0.26875 condi cleansed per second. The shoutbow build of the past ran cleansing ire (4 every 10 I know theoritical 6 but 4 was quite common), 2~3 shouts with runes of the trooper (3 every 20) and traited warhorn (2 every 12 and 1 every 16). Resulting in a 0.77916666666… conditons cleansed per second around 3 times as much as the scrapper.
Another example would be ranger. Empathic bond was back then standard which dealt with 3 conditions every 10 seconds. They ran this with other condition cleanses (I think before june patch, people could even run wildnerness survival with empathic bond) resulting in over 0.3 conditons per second cleansed. Which in itself is more then that scrapper.

I don’t know where the 1 every 48 is from, but the elixir B (presumably) toolbelt has a 20s cooldown, healing mist has 28s and super elixir 16s cooldown. I won’t count elixir x uses for condi removals, and it’s possible to electro-whirl in the super elixir field for cleansing bolts.

So 3/20, 1/15, 1/32, 1/20, 1/28 and 1/16 to give 0.39 per second with the possibility of another 2/16 from whirling in super elixir for 0.52 per second total. That’s probably more than it used to be, but engis were always weak to condis.

Oh so the elixer gun also counts, my bad, the 1/48 is from self regulating defense and the 1/32 is from hidden flask. this was my main reference: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scrapper_-_Power_Hammer
So I missed the 2 elixer gun synergies (1/16+ 1/28) increasing the rate to 0.36, nothing to major. Ranger couldn’t just outclass with just ampathic bond but the example still stands.

Shoutbows also had a passive shout that removed 2 every 20s, and brawler’s recovery removing another 1 every 5s. They could even run both sigil of generosity and purity if they wanted to and only need two slots.

That’s 4/10, 5/20 (FGJ and 2x Shake it Off,) 2/12 (it can remove cripple, chill and immob all at once, but I’ll assume people only have 1 at a time,) 1/16 and 1/5 for 1.07 cleanses per second or 1.27 if they did actually use both sigils.

Given than the shout and warhorn cleanses were aoes, shoutbow alone kept away a lot of condi builds.

Wasn’t quick breathing a master skill therefore incompatible with whrug it off? I really can’t find the old build since the 2 sites that were used for builds have updated them.

Tim.6450:

Oh so the elixer gun also counts, my bad, the 1/48 is from self regulating defense and the 1/32 is from hidden flask. this was my main reference: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scrapper_-_Power_Hammer
So I missed the 2 elixer gun synergies (1/16+ 1/28) increasing the rate to 0.36, nothing to major. Ranger couldn’t just outclass with just ampathic bond but the example still stands.

I forgot about the passive elixirs and assumed you slotted elixir B, but yes, it’s not a lot of condi removal either way.

Tim.6450:

Wasn’t quick breathing a master skill therefore incompatible with whrug it off? I really can’t find the old build since the 2 sites that were used for builds have updated them.

I was thinking of the settler ones, although they only existed for a few months before HoT, I think.

the thing i just dont get… is how people are having fun with condi XD XD. Rlly is so nice hit the opponent once, then dont have to bother to keep up the dmg and kite all the time since condi will thick aniway? Rlly what condi players have to do is… just survive!! the opponent will eventualy run out of condi cleanser, you have to spam condi and… survive! I heard too condi is skill…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVO1okVpj2Q
I will just spam this everywhere XD XD

Also, i dont get why people should change totaly their build to have condi cleanse, when condi players dont change a thing when they have to play against power builds. Also there is the weakness problem, wich can be totaly ignored by condi spammers.

Shala.8352:

the thing i just dont get… is how people are having fun with condi XD XD. Rlly is so nice hit the opponent once, then dont have to bother to keep up the dmg and kite all the time since condi will thick aniway? Rlly what condi players have to do is… just survive!! the opponent will eventualy run out of condi cleanser, you have to spam condi and… survive!

the thing i just dont get… is how people are having fun with power XD XD. Rlly is so nice hit the opponent once, then dont have to bother to keep up the dmg and kite all the time since the damage is already done and your opponent is dead? Rlly what power players have to do is… just survive!! the opponent will eventualy run out of protection,heals….,, you have to spam damage and… survive!

Shala.8352:

Also, i dont get why people should change totaly their build to have condi cleanse, when condi players dont change a thing when they have to play against power builds. Also there is the weakness problem, wich can be totaly ignored by condi spammers.

You think condi builds play without anti power coverage???? I mean weakness and protection are still a thing that are taken, same with damage reductions.

Me reacting to people complaining about condis over….and over…. and….over……… …. … …. again….