Guild Wars 2

Mechanically, conditions are impossible to balance as a damage source. It is simply lacking a lot of mechanics power has, in contrast, conditions are the least liable source of damage. Let me explain.

Power can be adjusted to the decimal, not only that, scaling with power can be adjusted do the decimal as well. The one thing power has that conditions does not is that power differs from skill is that the damage output differs from skill to skill. Allowing some skills like backstab and Hundred Blades to hit extremely hard in a small burst.

That’s one thing conditions have over power, is that they all scale with each other and they scale the same amount of their own type. Meaning that Grenade Barrage bleeding will deal the same damage as Explosive Shot.

Mechanically, they CANNOT work together. It’s two formula’s in a single mechanic, having one not outdoing the other, is impossible.

There is several other factors that drastically hurt the condition mechanic. Condition removal and condition duration stat itself.

In my opinion, condition removal should never exist. It is the reason why condition spamming exists. The reason why spamming as many conditions as possible is rewarded with victory is hindered with condition removal, condition damage will simply lose against a class with a lot of condition removal on it.

With to much condition removal, condition focused builds will simply not work.

So, what’s the balance between too much removal and too many conditions? It would be impossible to find the factor between those two. Now a days, people carry 2-3 ways to remove conditions to keep up with the meta, to much condition removal and you are sacrificing damage or defense.

It can all depend on what your opponent is packing, making the conditions you inflict utterly worthless or guarantees victory.

The other issue is condition damage stat, it doesn’t scale with all conditions like Chill or Cripple. Scaling with all conditions is not an issue, the BIG issue is condition duration does. It’s why condition damage and condition duration are always in strange spots. They work really well together, too well.

So Power is ALWAYS tied to condition duration to prevent it.
Mechanically, that’s like shooting yourself in the foot and putting a freaking Spongebob bandaid over it.
Sure, the bleeding has slowed but the issue is still painfully obvious.

Condition duration simply cannot exist with condition damage without breaking the game.

There. I have explained the issues with conditions mechanically and how it cannot be balanced.

So what’s the solution?
Remove Condition and Boon Mechanics from the combat.

You’re probably wondering where the hell Boons came from but I’ll get to that in a second.

Conditions simply cannot co-exist with power, mechanically it’s impossible to match the two.

If there must be an alternative source of damage it must follow these rules:

1. Can be adjusted to the decimal.
2. Can vary from implication.
3. Cannot be removed or denied frequently.
4. Cannot be better if implicated frequently.

Boons also fall into this category.

In my opinion, as much as ArenaNet dismisses the idea of Magic Damage or Boon Power. It is exactly what Guild Wars 2 combat needs to evolve.

No more applying 4k damage over 15 seconds with Bleeding.
If there was to be Magic Damage needs to be inflicted swiftly, armor ignoring, can apply various debuffs or flat out apply extra damage to skills. Magic damage MUST be weaker than power but makes up for it with different debuffs and armor ignoring damage.

For example, Frozen Burst with 0 Magic Damage slows enemy movement by 15% and casting speed by 5% for 2 seconds. But at 1,500 Magic damage, it can slow enemy movement by 52% and casting speed by 10% for 5 seconds.

The same needs to be done with Boons, no more boon types. Boons applied must scale differently.

Guild Wars 2 combat needs to evolve. Right now more maps are not going to help Guild Wars 2 PvP. If League of Legends can get away with only 4 maps ArenaNet, for a long time there was only 3 and even less before that, what does it mean for your game being a future e-sport?

More maps won’t make combat more fun, you must get your priorities straight.

Nova Stiker.8396:

The one thing power has that conditions does not is that power differs from skill is that the damage output differs from skill to skill. Allowing some skills like backstab and Hundred Blades to hit extremely hard in a small burst.

a single terrormancer popping burning and fear at the same time is no different to a warrior using 100b, the target will drop fast!
(and with the new patch a necro can cause burning and fear at the exact same time with a dhuum Lifeblast and instant cast Doom fear.)

i dont think anything is impossible to balance, just compare it to everything else,
its damage, its spammability and its bonus utility.
so you can balance the skills which cause the conditions.

if things were dying unnaturally fast to a necro spamming scepter auto attacks you could lower the condition durations which would in turn lower the damage.
this is no difference than directly lowering the damage of a direct damage auto attacks.

Conditions are not impossible to balance, but the current system does make it difficult. I agree with a few things the OP said, but overall I think a workable system can be achieved without a total overhaul.

To keep it short, I have two main points:
1. Damaging conditions and CC conditions (cripple, chill, immobilize, weakness) need to be treated differently by a good chunk of abilities and modifiers, especially in regards to duration.
2. The types of damaging conditions to which each profession has access need to be tightly controlled. Giving a high condition damage build access to a new condition dramatically increases their DPS because the damage is concurrent and not added at the end, and makes it harder to counter their condition damage. This is why traits like Incendiary Powder and Dhuumfire, and Runes of Perplexity are so powerful and game-breaking.

Conditions were not a problem in gw1 because… if you brought proper condition removal it would shut down condition builds. If you didn’t bring enough then you would lose battles of attrition.

Whereas in gw2 if you don’t bring enough condi removal you die in ~15-25 seconds.

If you do bring enough condi removal you typically won’t have enough damage to beat a condi class and lose the battle of attrition anyway. So everyone runs heavy condi and whatever removals they can bring and it creates the stale meta we’ve been stuck with the last 10 months.

Lux.7169:

Conditions were not a problem in gw1 because… if you brought proper condition removal it would shut down condition builds. If you didn’t bring enough then you would lose battles of attrition.

Whereas in gw2 if you don’t bring enough condi removal you die in ~15-25 seconds.

If you do bring enough condi removal you typically won’t have enough damage to beat a condi class and lose the battle of attrition anyway. So everyone runs heavy condi and whatever removals they can bring and it creates the stale meta we’ve been stuck with the last 10 months.

GW1 had it’s fair share of condition and hex problems before. Hexway, poison barbs ranger, spear warrior, seeping spike. Seeping Spike, a CONDITION-like build could kill light armored opponents in 4 seconds in a single combo.
Complain about thieves? HA! Assassins had much more broken stuff.

It even had it’s issues of condition and hex removal. Peace and Harmony basically removed all hexes and conditions, heals for each one removed and was on a 4 second recharge. It’s been nerfed but it utterly wrecked any condi/hex focused builds.

It wasn’t broken damage wise as only Monks can use Peace and Harmony well, but can you imagine Guardians or any class having the ability to remove all conditions in 4 seconds?!

It was called Build Wars for a reason, your class may have 400 skills but only 20 of them were any good. You can argue another 20 was purely for farming.

Guild Wars 1 conditions and hexes worked because it wasn’t so spammy. Energy made sure you couldn’t use anything on recharge.

Guild Wars 2 conditions don’t work because you HAVE to spam, blow those 2 dodges and land all your most powerful condition skills.

Even though Energy kept conditions and hexes in check in Guild Wars 1.
Guild Wars 2 solution should be similar to how League of Legends handles the balance between attack and magic. Splitting the damage and effects. Even adding additional magic damage to physical attacks.

However, having a system like Magic Resist I find unnecessary. Making magic damage an alternative source of damage that aids you attacks, instead of the main source of raw damage.