Guild Wars 2

Why do I always read that conditions are amazing / borderline OP in PvP? Are these just scrubs spouting this?

My experience with condition specs has been god awful in PvP, let me explain.

Mesmer: Literally HELL mode for me, They have a mantra that can instantly remove 3 conditions instantly 3 times with no cd (this effects all allies around them too), Null field basically makes anyone standing in it immune to conditions for the time its up, a phantasm that removes conditions. and any projetile that goes through the fields they pop up removes conditions. Then they have a skill that trades 3 of your boons for 3 of the conditions they have onto you.

Necro: their main heal removes every single condition on them and heals them for more depending on how many they had, most use this in conjunction with plague signet to pull all conditions from nearby allies to themselves. well of power turns conditions into boons (you are buffing the necro when you try to deal damage). And there’s some I’m missing I’m sure.

Gaurdian: Can turn all condition on himself into boons, can remove a boon every 10 seconds passively, 2 skills that remove conditions on self and allies on relatively low cds (15 and 20 seconds).

Ranger: With bear pet in my experience they are pretty much shake off most conditions ever 5-10.

Ele: Whenever they are in water form im pretty sure they are just immune to conditions completely.

Thief: Any sword speced thief has a 0 cd condition removal and return, out side of sword their removal isn’t to hard to deal with.

warrior: not much here

engineer: not much without the elixir gun… I think? I’m probably wrong.

All classes seem to have a trait to remove 2-3 conditions when they use their 6 heal.

With a good majority of classes having tons of utility to remove conditions, and with most of them specing for just that in PvP…. how do you deal with it? I tried playing a condition necro, and condition mes, and a condition engineer. But every time I faced those classes my conditions just melt off, or get turned into boons.

A power spec only has to really worry about protection, invuln skills, and blocks. Which are far and few between compared to the amount of condition removal mechanics in the game.

Do I just need 2 git gud? Or is this a real problem?

Its a real problem .Condition necro its the worst class in the game atm.You practically cant even mantain 2 bleed stacks in a mesmer or an ele.Not to mention taht you dont have enough control conditions to cover them like chil or weakness. Really chill would be great only if necro could mantain 100% on enemy but now its really a non factor. And those eles unfortunately dont get their attunement swap affected by it so chilling them out of water and their condi removal is not an option
Its true that power damage and burst is just easy mode right now in spvp.Thats why anet is heavily nerfing crit damage so that the condition specs get a proper spot in a team. Just wait for the patch

30/30/30/30/30 30 utility slots classes are very good against conditions yes, but I never even see a class do anything you mentioned besides Necromancer which is one of the classes kittenting out conditions.

stop blowing all of your cooldowns at the start of a fight, 1 full condi clear will screw you over, do it in waves.

Avead.5760:

Its a real problem .Condition necro its the worst class in the game atm.You practically cant even mantain 2 bleed stacks in a mesmer or an ele.Not to mention taht you dont have enough control conditions to cover them like chil or weakness. Really chill would be great only if necro could mantain 100% on enemy but now its really a non factor. And those eles unfortunately dont get their attunement swap affected by it so chilling them out of water and their condi removal is not an option
Its true that power damage and burst is just easy mode right now in spvp.Thats why anet is heavily nerfing crit damage so that the condition specs get a proper spot in a team. Just wait for the patch

They said crit damage is staying the same in sPvP despite the ferocity changes

I agree that conds are not op though.

The people who complain about conditions being weak are the people who blow all their conditions in the first few seconds of the fight; the enemy cleanse it; then they cry because they don’t have anything left.

You want to maximize uptime, not just throw a bunch at your opponents.

Zepidel.5349:

Why do I always read that conditions are amazing / borderline OP in PvP? Are these just scrubs spouting this?

My experience with condition specs has been god awful in PvP, let me explain.

Mesmer: Literally HELL mode for me, They have a mantra that can instantly remove 3 conditions instantly 3 times with no cd (this effects all allies around them too), Null field basically makes anyone standing in it immune to conditions for the time its up, a phantasm that removes conditions. and any projetile that goes through the fields they pop up removes conditions. Then they have a skill that trades 3 of your boons for 3 of the conditions they have onto you.

I want to point out that the cleanse Mantra clears two conditions, not three, and that a Mesmer needs 30 points in Dom and a GM trait to use it three times (it gets two charges by default). Mantras also require a long channel and are vulnerable to being interrupted.

Mesmers can cleanse well but it’s all active and comes at a heavy cost.

shimmerless.4560:

Zepidel.5349:

Why do I always read that conditions are amazing / borderline OP in PvP? Are these just scrubs spouting this?

My experience with condition specs has been god awful in PvP, let me explain.

Mesmer: Literally HELL mode for me, They have a mantra that can instantly remove 3 conditions instantly 3 times with no cd (this effects all allies around them too), Null field basically makes anyone standing in it immune to conditions for the time its up, a phantasm that removes conditions. and any projetile that goes through the fields they pop up removes conditions. Then they have a skill that trades 3 of your boons for 3 of the conditions they have onto you.

I want to point out that the cleanse Mantra clears two conditions, not three, and that a Mesmer needs 30 points in Dom and a GM trait to use it three times (it gets two charges by default). Mantras also require a long channel and are vulnerable to being interrupted.

Mesmers can cleanse well but it’s all active and comes at a heavy cost.

Agreed it’s harder for some classes than others (in general)… however that isn’t mesmer’s only means of avoiding the conditions being applied in the first place, nor their only means of condition removal.

The only class that I can think of that could use some more removal would be eng, since eng’s best anti-cond is being nerfed (deservingly so). It might be justified to compensate a little bit somewhere else, but I’m willing to wait and see after the patch.

sPvP is slightly different in regards to conditions compared to WvW, where most complaints originate from.

1. Some condition abilities are down-right weaker in sPvP compared to WvW/PvE.

2. Perplexity Runes, one of the things that pushed conditions overboard, is not available (yet) in sPvP.

3. Dire gear is not available in sPvP so you can’t max. both condition damage and survivability.

4. The popular and dominant condition builds like PU Mesmer, P/D Thief or Spamaneer don’t work in sPvP because they rely on stealth or have other, more useful builds (decap Engi).

5. sPvP does not have food that enhances all conditions by 40%.

All these things combined mean that conditions are much less of an issue in sPvP compared to WvW.

Dee Jay.2460:

sPvP is slightly different in regards to conditions compared to WvW, where most complaints originate from.

1. Some condition abilities are down-right weaker in sPvP compared to WvW/PvE.

2. Perplexity Runes, one of the things that pushed conditions overboard, is not available (yet) in sPvP.

3. Dire gear is not available in sPvP so you can’t max. both condition damage and survivability.

4. The popular and dominant condition builds like PU Mesmer, P/D Thief or Spamaneer don’t work in sPvP because they rely on stealth or have other, more useful builds (decap Engi).

5. sPvP does not have food that enhances all conditions by 40%.

All these things combined mean that conditions are much less of an issue in sPvP compared to WvW.

Even then though, that’s only an issue in very scale fights. Once the fights get larger the amount of cleansing that goes on makes conditions nearly a non-issue. (WvW)

Condi damage isn’t as big a deal as it was last summer when targeted AoE condi cleave was very very strong. Ranger spirits saw some tweaks + targeting changes made themn much more manageable. The famous Dhuumfire necro received nerfs to several important traits and even weapon skills which reduced it’s ability to cleave with condis. Condi engi didn’t see a lot of changes but easier to play builds (decap engi) became popular which reduced the number we saw in play. Condi management received a few scattered buffs over the last year and the meta has shifted as well.

tl;dr Condis aren’t a huge problem anymore but they’re still often regarded as “cheese” specs b/c they rely on lots of auto-attack spam and/or AI and/or passive procs to apply lots of passive damage that’s far easier to apply than it is to avoid or remove.

Zepidel.5349:

Ele: Whenever they are in water form im pretty sure they are just immune to conditions completely.

Go play ele, take notes and come back

I love that you describe a Mesmer build no one uses and then go on to say “not much here” for Warrior xD gave me a good chuckle

Wow eles getting mad. Care to stick around to tell me how insanely hard your class is to play, and how every other class is ez mode?

Also the mesmer build I described only makes the mantra 33% better, nullfield, the light fields, and arcane theivery all still function the same in any spec.

Zepidel.5349:

Wow eles getting mad. Care to stick around to tell me how insanely hard your class is to play, and how every other class is ez mode?

Also the mesmer build I described only makes the mantra 33% better, nullfield, the light fields, and arcane theivery all still function the same in any spec.

Go use that build please.

What the literal kitten is happening in this thread? I don’t even understand what game that players ITT are playing.

Sighhhh …..
Because DPS build is too mainstream and condi spammer can no longer use it ….

Yeah I don’t know why people complain about conditions, there is so much condition removal in the game it’s insane. Whenever I use condition builds I always feel underpowered.

Zepidel.5349:

Ranger: With bear pet in my experience they are pretty much shake off most conditions ever 5-10.

Bearbow confirmed OP.

/thread, we’re done here people.

Zepidel.5349:

Why do I always read that conditions are amazing / borderline OP in PvP? Are these just scrubs spouting this?

My experience with condition specs has been god awful in PvP, let me explain.

Mesmer: Literally HELL mode for me, They have a mantra that can instantly remove 3 conditions instantly 3 times with no cd (this effects all allies around them too), Null field basically makes anyone standing in it immune to conditions for the time its up, a phantasm that removes conditions. and any projetile that goes through the fields they pop up removes conditions. Then they have a skill that trades 3 of your boons for 3 of the conditions they have onto you.

Necro: their main heal removes every single condition on them and heals them for more depending on how many they had, most use this in conjunction with plague signet to pull all conditions from nearby allies to themselves. well of power turns conditions into boons (you are buffing the necro when you try to deal damage). And there’s some I’m missing I’m sure.

Gaurdian: Can turn all condition on himself into boons, can remove a boon every 10 seconds passively, 2 skills that remove conditions on self and allies on relatively low cds (15 and 20 seconds).

Ranger: With bear pet in my experience they are pretty much shake off most conditions ever 5-10.

Ele: Whenever they are in water form im pretty sure they are just immune to conditions completely.

Thief: Any sword speced thief has a 0 cd condition removal and return, out side of sword their removal isn’t to hard to deal with.

warrior: not much here

engineer: not much without the elixir gun… I think? I’m probably wrong.

All classes seem to have a trait to remove 2-3 conditions when they use their 6 heal.

With a good majority of classes having tons of utility to remove conditions, and with most of them specing for just that in PvP…. how do you deal with it? I tried playing a condition necro, and condition mes, and a condition engineer. But every time I faced those classes my conditions just melt off, or get turned into boons.

A power spec only has to really worry about protection, invuln skills, and blocks. Which are far and few between compared to the amount of condition removal mechanics in the game.

Do I just need 2 git gud? Or is this a real problem?

The only reason why I think you need to git gud is you don’t mention warriors having a kittenton of condi clear and you think mesmers do.

Condis have always been quite good at taking down bunkers with enough sustained pressure. Between that and they’ve always been scary to thieves and most other fast classes. It’s the DPS that you find within teamfights that is the main issue for most condi classes.

Sadly a LOT of classes in the current meta have an insane amount of condi clear. Maybe the lyssa nerf will help? So long as they don’t make melandru 45% we’ll be ok

ahahhahahahahaha

8/10 for effort man

Mesmer: Literally HELL mode for me, They have a mantra that can instantly remove 3 conditions instantly 3 times with no cd (this effects all allies around them too), Null field basically makes anyone standing in it immune to conditions for the time its up, a phantasm that removes conditions. and any projetile that goes through the fields they pop up removes conditions. Then they have a skill that trades 3 of your boons for 3 of the conditions they have onto you.

Ele: Whenever they are in water form im pretty sure they are just immune to conditions completely.

Thief: Any sword speced thief has a 0 cd condition removal and return, out side of sword their removal isn’t to hard to deal with.

warrior: not much here

http://oi41.tinypic.com/nf8nm.jpg

But who was Lyssa?

I must admit that today I got trolled. So sad. Should have got it when OP said warrior has not much conditions cleansing.

8.5/10

Conditions are not OP?

Well you have fooled me then…

My warrior has:-

Healing signet, so called ‘OP’ healing.
Berserker Stance, traited so I am immune to conditions for 10 secs.
Signet of Stamina, clears all conditions on me.
Runes of Lyssa, turns all conditions into boons, with Signet of Rage traited for just a 48 sec cooldown.

Even with all that rubbish, the odd Engineer or Necro will still kill me with conditions

So I think conditions are a ‘tad’ OP in spvp.

The problem is really the combination of high healing/toughness with condition damage making them pretty hard to kill and still be able to deal damage without any regards to positioning.
Example:
Engis just spaming nades or bombs on point and running around in circles…
Rangers auto atacking with short bow and wrecking you

We have trolls within a troll thread it would seem.

A warrior who dies to a necro/engi. And then someone who can’t kill people running in circles. You’ve got winners xD

Aberrant.6749:

Dee Jay.2460:

sPvP is slightly different in regards to conditions compared to WvW, where most complaints originate from.

1. Some condition abilities are down-right weaker in sPvP compared to WvW/PvE.

2. Perplexity Runes, one of the things that pushed conditions overboard, is not available (yet) in sPvP.

3. Dire gear is not available in sPvP so you can’t max. both condition damage and survivability.

4. The popular and dominant condition builds like PU Mesmer, P/D Thief or Spamaneer don’t work in sPvP because they rely on stealth or have other, more useful builds (decap Engi).

5. sPvP does not have food that enhances all conditions by 40%.

All these things combined mean that conditions are much less of an issue in sPvP compared to WvW.

Even then though, that’s only an issue in very scale fights. Once the fights get larger the amount of cleansing that goes on makes conditions nearly a non-issue. (WvW)

This is almost entirely due to the Guardian’s ability to cleanse not only for himself, but for his allies as well. Without that ability conditions would be far more dominant in large scale warfare as well.

-40% condition food is already the most prevalent food even in zerg-fights, for good reason.

I don’t know how you missed the fact that warriors are 100% immune to conditions for 20+ seconds at a time. I’ve gone an entire fight without ever damaging a warrior. He was immune to all my conditions, his signet outhealed my auto attack and utilities, and he stunned me 4 times in a row until I was dead.

Warriors are by far the worst to use conditions against.

After that are ele’s they are also immune to conditions except their immunity lasts 40+ seconds in my experience. They have constant regen up so and my scepter AA doesn’t do enough damage to counter their regen so they also are able to kill me from 100% health and there is literally nothing I can do to stop them. I have no idea how you damage an ele as a condition spec, but it seems they are completely immune to all damage all the time.

Warriors are not immune to conditions for 20+ seconds at a time what?

Traited duration increase on berserker stance is still max 10 seconds total.

But warriors remove conditions when they burst, so after you apply your condi bomb always try to daze, fear, stun them somehow, or if they using melee weapon blind will probably work because a melee burst that misses won’t remove condis.

In my opinion, conditions are not OP at all when I’m playing condition builds and conditions are OP as hell when I am on something else being targeted by condition builds!!!

Uhtameit.2413:

We have trolls within a troll thread it would seem.

A warrior who dies to a necro/engi. And then someone who can’t kill people running in circles. You’ve got winners xD

You sure got the point of the post

10/10 would reply again

@Ugruk

Engineers play with rabid’s because they need the crit, you don’t see good engineers with settler’s. You also claim you die to engineers spamming nades/bombs which are so easily dodged. If you’re not trolling I’m sorry for you.

Did you know that engineer have a trait that allows them to get +300% condition damage and +500% toughness when they run in circles? it has to be a perfect circle though so you have to be skilled.

They’re not as OP as they are just really poorly designed.

They are essentially a bunch of true damage (can’t be mitigated) dots that can be spammed so quickly the only response is to either kill the source before you get eaten away or spam condi removal yourself. It’s really bad game design is all.

If they wanted there to be no mitigating stat they should have made them a lot more rare, not a primary source of damage for mulitiple builds. If they wanted them to be all over the place (which makes for bad/boring pvp which should be able big hits and the counter play to those big hits, not just a bunch of dots creeping up your health non stop) then they should have at least put in a mitigating stat (reduces damage dealt by condis by %) so if players start relying on them too much people start building a counter stat. As it is it’s spam spam spam thoughtlessly with the other side spamming condi removal on CD. Most FPS games have less mindless spamming.

OP is a troll guess..

Took me all the way to elementalist to conclude though gj XD

PS: although mantra bit was a bit OTT to start with!

I feel that condition users can mostly use it with impunity, since really the so called counters are just condi removals. Anet should open up more ways to punish condi users, skills/builds that do alot more damage when you have conditions on you etc.

Right Toe Of Grenth.4032:

I feel that condition users can mostly use it with impunity, since really the so called counters are just condi removals. Anet should open up more ways to punish condi users, skills/builds that do alot more damage when you have conditions on you etc.

You do realize that the most likely profession to receive and with the most appropriate design for that kind of ability is the Necromancer, right?