Guild Wars 2

kostbabis.8791:

People thought that cond removal is out of control..I agree but with this randomness and condie presence its unfortunately …not enough.

Ofc it’s not enough, you are not supposed to clean all conditions all the time. Conditions are meant to kill you, not being there looking pretty.

Ppl think that conditions are a plus, over direct damage. But for some classes and builds, conditions are all they got to do damage.

Ask for constant condi cleanse is the same as asking for constant blocks or perma healing.

I ride the lightning trough mid point against 2 necro’s and an engi and I died before it ended

true story

Yadeniel.9310:

l2p, necros are competitive now. This happens when there is a class that sucks hard since the release and get buffed 1 YEAR LATER, everyone is used for necros to be crap.

Must be nice. I wish Warriors got buffed to become competitive. We are still the worst class.

At first people were crying for burst damage, then CC and now condis… wtf do you want exactly? Be happy necs don’t have 1 million hexes as they once did

Nuka Cola.8520:

At first people were crying for burst damage, then CC and now condis… wtf do you want exactly? Be happy necs don’t have 1 million hexes as they once did

Necros had a maximum of 8 hexes, because nobody could have more than 8 skills.
And we had classes which could removes this stuff with cooldowns of 2-5s

GW1 had less condition spam, yet GW1 had Restore Condition .

Nuka Cola.8520:

At first people were crying for burst damage, then CC and now condis… wtf do you want exactly? Be happy necs don’t have 1 million hexes as they once did

That’s a silly thing to ask.

There is clearly an imbalance in how Conditions are applied and the ways to remove them.

Players want balance, that is why we speak out.

They won’t nerf condi uptime/application/damage because they’re already garbage in PvE.

Warriors just need better condi removal traits/utility, as do rangers and perhaps mesmers. All the other classes have enough cleansing, and ele certainly don’t need more of it as before the patch a bunker ele pretty much shrugged off necro bleeds so trivially.

Zenith.7301:

They won’t nerf condi uptime/application/damage because they’re already garbage in PvE.

Ohhh the list of things they have nerfed in pve to satisfy pvp. That is a long list. This is not a good argument. Sorry.

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

They won’t nerf condi uptime/application/damage because they’re already garbage in PvE.

Ohhh the list of things they have nerfed in pve to satisfy pvp. That is a long list. This is not a good argument. Sorry.

OK, fair, they killed rangers in every other format because of spvp. I still have my doubts about them making conditions worse than they are in the other game formats atm.

In every other game format the dominant stat builds are NOT condition builds, and it’s for a reason.

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

They won’t nerf condi uptime/application/damage because they’re already garbage in PvE.

Ohhh the list of things they have nerfed in pve to satisfy pvp. That is a long list. This is not a good argument. Sorry.

How about this: conditions won’t be nerfed ‘cause conditions are ok.
Bad players don’t know (and apparently they don’t want to learn) how to counter condition builds. Some classes are good at cleanse conditions, this mean they can negate the damage of condition builds, but some classes are not at it. It’s the same with physical damage. Some classes have stealth, blocks, evades, etc., so they can negate physical damage, but some classes don’t have these mechanisms and are weak against classes like thieves or mesmers.
This mean a single build can’t be strong against all other builds. Necros can’t complain for conditions, cause they have a lot of tools to play with them. Eles and guardians can’t complain either, they have a lot of cleanses.

Learn to counter conditions, try new builds, try new classes and stop this nonsensical, childish crying about conditions being too powerful.

vicious.5683:

Learn to counter conditions, try new builds, try new classes and stop this nonsensical, childish crying about conditions being too powerful.

I prefer to play Warrior. It is my favorite profession.

With that said, there is little I can do against a class that can apply more than 3 different types of conditions every 10 sec. Sure I can spec into full condition removal but then I lose all of my burst and since Warrior has little to no sustain I become useless on the field.

I have tried plenty of builds, none of which can withstand the pressure from Necro or Engi condition application.

Why is complaining about something that ruins the enjoyment of others considered nonsensical? Conditions annihilate my class in spvp and there is just about nothing I can do about it.

Red Raven.7824:

vicious.5683:

Learn to counter conditions, try new builds, try new classes and stop this nonsensical, childish crying about conditions being too powerful.

I prefer to play Warrior. It is my favorite profession.

With that said, there is little I can do against a class that can apply more than 3 different types of conditions every 10 sec. Sure I can spec into full condition removal but then I lose all of my burst and since Warrior has little to no sustain I become useless on the field.

I have tried plenty of builds, none of which can withstand the pressure from Necro or Engi condition application.

Why is complaining about something that ruins the enjoyment of others considered nonsensical? Conditions annihilate my class in spvp and there is just about nothing I can do about it.

Bullcrap. Warrior has the highest sustained in game. By a long shot.

What he doesn’t have is UPTIME. If warrior has uptime, things melt. That simple.

People should think before talking. There is a difference between “I do no damage” and “I am unable to do do my damage”.

Zenith.7301:

Red Raven.7824:

vicious.5683:

Learn to counter conditions, try new builds, try new classes and stop this nonsensical, childish crying about conditions being too powerful.

I prefer to play Warrior. It is my favorite profession.

With that said, there is little I can do against a class that can apply more than 3 different types of conditions every 10 sec. Sure I can spec into full condition removal but then I lose all of my burst and since Warrior has little to no sustain I become useless on the field.

I have tried plenty of builds, none of which can withstand the pressure from Necro or Engi condition application.

Why is complaining about something that ruins the enjoyment of others considered nonsensical? Conditions annihilate my class in spvp and there is just about nothing I can do about it.

Bullcrap. Warrior has the highest sustained in game. By a long shot.

What he doesn’t have is UPTIME. If warrior has uptime, things melt. That simple.

People should think before talking. There is a difference between “I do no damage” and “I am unable to do do my damage”.

1) He is saying that Warrior has no sustain in the sense of lasting power on the field, as in warriors get rektd really really fast because they don’t have defensive mechanics on par with the other classes. You seem to think he’s referring to sustained damage?

2) Nobody has ever said that Warriors do no damage, but being unable to land your damage is a problem already acknowledged by anet (despite making final thrust the most telegraphed thing since bullsrush..)

I don’t even know why they put final thrust on the condition weapon…

Zenith.7301:

I don’t even know why they put final thrust on the condition weapon…

I assume it was to encourage using MH sword by putting it near GS when looking for a mobility-burst weapon. And MH sword was never a full condi weapon, final thrust has always been there as a direct damage option because they feel like warriors should always have some kind of power about them (see: Longbow’s Arcing Arrow)

That’s the problem, that the current system doesn’t work for hybrids. So either part of the weapon will be kitten by your attribute investments. It’s the same with the ranger greatsword and axe weapons. Doesn’t work well — specialized weapons always pull ahead.

aye engineer grenades do decent damage, but they are on low cooldown and ae so its easily spammed, hence why even if you cure conditions you’ll keep getting them until you deal with him.
I’d say damage wise the grenade kit is better than thief shortbow because you can constantly do ae damage and apply conditions, the thief shortbow requires initiative to keep using ae damage, which could be used for something better.

One thing that’s bothering me: Necromancers are overpowered, but how many teams are actually trying to adapt to them? How many tournament mesmers are now running Null Field? How about elementalists with Cleansing Fire? Or even necromancers with Well of Power? In today’s ESL tournament, I didn’t see any examples of people changing their utility skills for these team fights in which necromancers were applying massive pressure. Why?

It reminds me of Beast Cleave during World of Warcraft’s brief stint as an e-sport. That comp came out roaring in a tournament, destroying virtually everyone with ease. Most players complained and called for nerfs. Blizzard, as per usual, took forever to patch fixes. But a funny thing happened before Blizzard made any changes: One team — an RMP, for those who remember — changed its gear, talents and strat around. The next tournament, Beast Cleave lost, despite the absence of nerfs.

I’m worried necromancers will get nerfed then people will begin adapting to more than one condition build being viable. That could put necromancers in the gutter. Maybe that’s the agenda for some people on these forums, but it wouldn’t be good for the game.

Red Raven.7824:

Nuka Cola.8520:

At first people were crying for burst damage, then CC and now condis… wtf do you want exactly? Be happy necs don’t have 1 million hexes as they once did

That’s a silly thing to ask.

There is clearly an imbalance in how Conditions are applied and the ways to remove them.

Players want balance, that is why we speak out.

You’re entirely right! It is entirely imbalanced that some classes can completely wipe all conditions and entirely mitigate any condition specced classes damage. The exact same should be true with direct damage as well!

The problem here is that people are not seeing both sides to this argument.

Conditions ignore armor but can be completely mitigated by removals. They have limited stacking and have a stat connected to their scaling that isn’t freely available on gear. They do their damage over time and thus allow more healing to occur to mitigate the damage.

Direct damage is mitigated by armor but cannot be completely mitigated. There are no stacking limitations and all stats that boost it are available on gear, all on a single piece in fact and actually scale a lot better. It does it’s damage upfront allowing for very little healing.

BOTH can be dodged and are affected by immunities.

If we look at the above you can see conditions are still behind and people are still asking for nerfs? Then lets nerf all direct damage so it only benefits from 5% of your power, only 1-2 people can do damage to an enemy at a time, and remove crit damage and precision from gear.

Heaven forbid that people have to take conditions into consideration now when creating their build. Yes, you’re going to have to stack removals to take out condition specs but you will dominate them. Of course you’re going to get dominated by direct damage builds but they will be killed off by condition builds. You see this is called balance. I’m not saying it’s entirely balanced at the moment, but it’s a step in the right direction.

I’ve never ever seen a game where conditions were a main mechanic. Conditions are ALWAYS a secondary mechanic used to bolster the character. It’s nonsensical to have pure condition builds since it’ll eventually degenerate into casting conditions then running in circles until they overwhelm your opponent.

data.4093:

I’ve never ever seen a game where conditions were a main mechanic. Conditions are ALWAYS a secondary mechanic used to bolster the character. It’s nonsensical to have pure condition builds since it’ll eventually degenerate into casting conditions then running in circles until they overwhelm your opponent.

Debuff and DOT builds have been standard in MMOs for as long as I can remember, so you must not play a lot of MMOs.

Lopez.7369:

Debuff and DOT builds have been standard in MMOs for as long as I can remember, so you must not play a lot of MMOs.

Hmm maybe I just don’t play the same games. Although I do avoid generic mmos now…(I never played wow or rift).

Distaste.4801:

Red Raven.7824:

Nuka Cola.8520:

At first people were crying for burst damage, then CC and now condis… wtf do you want exactly? Be happy necs don’t have 1 million hexes as they once did

That’s a silly thing to ask.

There is clearly an imbalance in how Conditions are applied and the ways to remove them.

Players want balance, that is why we speak out.

You’re entirely right! It is entirely imbalanced that some classes can completely wipe all conditions and entirely mitigate any condition specced classes damage. The exact same should be true with direct damage as well!

The problem here is that people are not seeing both sides to this argument.

Conditions ignore armor but can be completely mitigated by removals. They have limited stacking and have a stat connected to their scaling that isn’t freely available on gear. They do their damage over time and thus allow more healing to occur to mitigate the damage.

Direct damage is mitigated by armor but cannot be completely mitigated. There are no stacking limitations and all stats that boost it are available on gear, all on a single piece in fact and actually scale a lot better. It does it’s damage upfront allowing for very little healing.

BOTH can be dodged and are affected by immunities.

If we look at the above you can see conditions are still behind and people are still asking for nerfs? Then lets nerf all direct damage so it only benefits from 5% of your power, only 1-2 people can do damage to an enemy at a time, and remove crit damage and precision from gear.

Heaven forbid that people have to take conditions into consideration now when creating their build. Yes, you’re going to have to stack removals to take out condition specs but you will dominate them. Of course you’re going to get dominated by direct damage builds but they will be killed off by condition builds. You see this is called balance. I’m not saying it’s entirely balanced at the moment, but it’s a step in the right direction.

I will list the flaws in your argument step by step to show you why conditions are over the top.

Conditions coming from classes that really cant apply multiple conditions (warriors for example) CAN be completely cleansed. That is why these classes have a subpar condition build.

Classes that are BUILT for conditions (engi/necro) used to run a condition build pre-patch because they could apply sheer pressure over the cleansing and still do a good amount of damage.

Post-patch, conditions are applied 2x to 3x faster than cleanses for cleanse FOCUSED builds/classes. This is not balanced.

You then stated that conditions do damage over time as opposed to direct damage. Yes, this is true for 1-2 conditions. When your getting 8-10 stacks of bleed+poison+burning+vulnerability+chill, your kitten drops nearly as fast as direct damage burst so your argument is not valid anymore. Also, CC is the counter for direct damage to give you room to heal. This does not work against a condition class.

“Both are affected by immunities.” I do not have extensive knowledge here but my ele’s immunities still eat condition damage so I have to disagree here.

“Both can be dodged”. Even though its harder against condition attacks, I will agree with you here.

However, you completely forgot about the protection boon. In addition to toughness, protection offers 33% reduction against direct damage. Between this and aegies/invuls I would say a class that applies 3-4 conditions every 10-15 sec is way better than a direct damage class that applies burst combos every 10-15 sec since there are simply more ways to counter the burst such as cc/invul/protection etc. (I will not even name stealth as another active damage counter since its a cheap game mechanic).

With all this data, I would say applying 3-4 conditions every 10-15 sec beats most cleansers except the heavily traited cleansers (and they traited for cleansing, why shouldnt they have a chance against conditioners).

Now the problem is, engi/necros are spreading conditions in an aoe while cleansing aoes are limited in their relative range or cd. This clearly causes a balance issue in point fights.

data.4093:

I’ve never ever seen a game where conditions were a main mechanic. Conditions are ALWAYS a secondary mechanic used to bolster the character. It’s nonsensical to have pure condition builds since it’ll eventually degenerate into casting conditions then running in circles until they overwhelm your opponent.

If you have ever played wow, I remember the affliction lock + restoration druid combo in 2v2 arena. My god, that was broken as kitten.

Cast conditions on enemy and regeneration on allies and pillar hump till they die. Talk about stupid game design.

Demon.5082:

data.4093:

I’ve never ever seen a game where conditions were a main mechanic. Conditions are ALWAYS a secondary mechanic used to bolster the character. It’s nonsensical to have pure condition builds since it’ll eventually degenerate into casting conditions then running in circles until they overwhelm your opponent.

If you have ever played wow, I remember the affliction lock + restoration druid combo in 2v2 arena. My god, that was broken as kitten.

Cast conditions on enemy and regeneration on allies and pillar hump till they die. Talk about stupid game design.

Let’s stay on topic though guys, we’re here to discuss about Guild Wars 2 not World of Warcraft.

I really enjoy reading everyone’s opinions on this issue, I’m glad to see everyone is having their own troubles with these recent changes. Not that I agree with all of them, but some of them just make it hard to enjoy this game.

vicious.5683:

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

They won’t nerf condi uptime/application/damage because they’re already garbage in PvE.

Ohhh the list of things they have nerfed in pve to satisfy pvp. That is a long list. This is not a good argument. Sorry.

How about this: conditions won’t be nerfed ‘cause conditions are ok.
Bad players don’t know (and apparently they don’t want to learn) how to counter condition builds. Some classes are good at cleanse conditions, this mean they can negate the damage of condition builds, but some classes are not at it. It’s the same with physical damage. Some classes have stealth, blocks, evades, etc., so they can negate physical damage, but some classes don’t have these mechanisms and are weak against classes like thieves or mesmers.
This mean a single build can’t be strong against all other builds. Necros can’t complain for conditions, cause they have a lot of tools to play with them. Eles and guardians can’t complain either, they have a lot of cleanses.

Learn to counter conditions, try new builds, try new classes and stop this nonsensical, childish crying about conditions being too powerful.

Okay so a Mesmer running melandru runes. pdisenchanter mantra of resolve menders purity and nullfield just needs to l2p against conditions. They are literally taking every condition option they have for skills. The only other option is shattered conditions which people don’t take because:
1. It is in a line that has NOTHING to do with shatters
2. The line it is in is more about keeping illusions up than anything
3. The Mesmer loses all shatter damage in this line.

Please tell me how mesmers are supposed to counter a double necro combo or even a single necro that chains fears (keep in mind if we run full condi removal we have NO stun break.) Several people can agree necros did not need a damage buff they needed a survivability/escape buff. Now they wreck so many condis out that no one can keep up. This is not L2P and never was l2p…. The only way some classes can be viable for their teams is if they sacrifice some condi removal (not all but some) meaning they are still way more vulnerable to this new necromancer. Some classes need nerfs still (phantasm Mesmer still needs that nerf bat/hgh engi) some specs need buffs (Mesmer/warrior sustain condi removal) having classes that are the best at tossing out conditions as well as the best at clearing them is not balance… Not at all.

Demon.5082:

Distaste.4801:

Red Raven.7824:

Nuka Cola.8520:

At first people were crying for burst damage, then CC and now condis… wtf do you want exactly? Be happy necs don’t have 1 million hexes as they once did

That’s a silly thing to ask.

There is clearly an imbalance in how Conditions are applied and the ways to remove them.

Players want balance, that is why we speak out.

You’re entirely right! It is entirely imbalanced that some classes can completely wipe all conditions and entirely mitigate any condition specced classes damage. The exact same should be true with direct damage as well!

The problem here is that people are not seeing both sides to this argument.

Conditions ignore armor but can be completely mitigated by removals. They have limited stacking and have a stat connected to their scaling that isn’t freely available on gear. They do their damage over time and thus allow more healing to occur to mitigate the damage.

Direct damage is mitigated by armor but cannot be completely mitigated. There are no stacking limitations and all stats that boost it are available on gear, all on a single piece in fact and actually scale a lot better. It does it’s damage upfront allowing for very little healing.

BOTH can be dodged and are affected by immunities.

If we look at the above you can see conditions are still behind and people are still asking for nerfs? Then lets nerf all direct damage so it only benefits from 5% of your power, only 1-2 people can do damage to an enemy at a time, and remove crit damage and precision from gear.

Heaven forbid that people have to take conditions into consideration now when creating their build. Yes, you’re going to have to stack removals to take out condition specs but you will dominate them. Of course you’re going to get dominated by direct damage builds but they will be killed off by condition builds. You see this is called balance. I’m not saying it’s entirely balanced at the moment, but it’s a step in the right direction.

I will list the flaws in your argument step by step to show you why conditions are over the top.

Conditions coming from classes that really cant apply multiple conditions (warriors for example) CAN be completely cleansed. That is why these classes have a subpar condition build.

Classes that are BUILT for conditions (engi/necro) used to run a condition build pre-patch because they could apply sheer pressure over the cleansing and still do a good amount of damage.

Post-patch, conditions are applied 2x to 3x faster than cleanses for cleanse FOCUSED builds/classes. This is not balanced.

You then stated that conditions do damage over time as opposed to direct damage. Yes, this is true for 1-2 conditions. When your getting 8-10 stacks of bleed+poison+burning+vulnerability+chill, your kitten drops nearly as fast as direct damage burst so your argument is not valid anymore. Also, CC is the counter for direct damage to give you room to heal. This does not work against a condition class.

“Both are affected by immunities.” I do not have extensive knowledge here but my ele’s immunities still eat condition damage so I have to disagree here.

“Both can be dodged”. Even though its harder against condition attacks, I will agree with you here.

However, you completely forgot about the protection boon. In addition to toughness, protection offers 33% reduction against direct damage. Between this and aegies/invuls I would say a class that applies 3-4 conditions every 10-15 sec is way better than a direct damage class that applies burst combos every 10-15 sec since there are simply more ways to counter the burst such as cc/invul/protection etc. (I will not even name stealth as another active damage counter since its a cheap game mechanic).

With all this data, I would say applying 3-4 conditions every 10-15 sec beats most cleansers except the heavily traited cleansers (and they traited for cleansing, why shouldnt they have a chance against conditioners).

Now the problem is, engi/necros are spreading conditions in an aoe while cleansing aoes are limited in their relative range or cd. This clearly causes a balance issue in point fights.

Necro condi spec was total garbage pre- this patch. You are so disgustingly ignorant when it comes to the class.

Its only damaging condition was bleed, and his chill and poison conditions were on 15+ sec cooldowns, so if an ele or guardian was around, guess what, conditions were wiped clean.

If a thief on d/p had shadow arts? Guess what, every time he stealthed he wiped off the necro’s damage.

Necro’s conditions isn’t what’s killing people. It’s the Terror chain created by 2 necros with Epidemic.

Demon.5082:

snip

There are more than a few full cleanse removals that remove all conditions and can completely ruin a multiple condition class as well. Every single class has access to multiple conditions, they might not all do damage but they help vs cleansing on top of their already useful effects.

As for conditions being applied 2x-3x faster than cleanses, that’s not imbalanced. You’re looking at mitigating most of another players damage and you want it to be just as fast? If cleanses were as quick as condition application then condition builds would do no damage. In order for conditions to do damage they need time to build up or time to tick. Basically what you’re asking for here when applied to direct damage is for heals to have no cooldown because enemies can just keep reapplying damage.

Even with conditions stacked you’re not dying as fast as direct damage. Sorry, but the time it takes just to apply the bleeds to start hitting as hard as direct damage already takes longer than it takes for direct damage to kill someone. It’s also important to mention that there are only a few conditions that stack in intensity; most only stack in duration, which makes them easier to cleanse.
Lets do some math though with 1400 condition damage!

Bleed 25 stack: ~2825 per second
Burning: 678 per second
Confusion per stack: 175
Poison: 278 per second
Fear+Terror: 1173 per second with another condition on the enemy

None of which hit nearly as hard as direct damage can, unless you don’t think direct damage can crit for 5k. For a necro you need to have all of those conditions(minus confusion) on an enemy to deal anywhere near the burst of direct damage. Of course why anyone would let you stack 25 bleeds, burning, poison, and fear is beyond me.

CC also does impact conditions. Each condition applied is equal to a direct damage attack. If you stop them from attacking they aren’t applying conditions, just like a DD wouldn’t be attacking. This gives you time to cleanse, heal, run, etc. The previous conditions might still be ticking but you need to remember that those are like damage a DD has already done.

Immunities do in fact work vs conditions. However they only work on conditions applied while you are immune. Any conditions applied prior to immunity will still tick, again remember that this ticking damage is damage that a DD would have already done.

As for protection, even with a 33% reduction a 5k crit still does as much damage as a full 25 stack of bleeds. Aegis also blocks condition application and stealth also mitigates conditions because 1. You can’t apply conditions to what you can’t see 2. Again any damage applied via conditions is like damage already done by DD.

Even after looking at the above numbers you think 3-4 conditions every 15s is better than DD that can kill you faster than that? If you want to beat a heavy condition build you need to be a heavy removal build. It’s the same for direct damage, why do you think bunkers are so popular besides the fact that they hold points longer.

There are AOE condition removals and even combo fields that minimize the impact of conditions. If you’re just letting a necro sit back and stack conditions though then you’re team is the problem and not the necro. The same is true if your team clumps up and gets AOEed down by DD.

You need to learn to counter conditions. Conditions are a longer term fight so fight with that in mind. Stun/CC the necro to start so they have already have damage on them before they even get to apply their first condition. Use immunities after that so no conditions get applied, they waste cooldowns, and they still have yet to apply conditions. Then wait a bit before cleansing so they waste more cooldowns. CC as often as possible just like DD to prevent further condition application. If they pop plague then just kite, if they use DS dodge, and don’t run through their spectral wall.

hharry.1967:

Im playing an ele with cleansing fire and ether renewal, plus dagger #5 and i can hardly keep less than 2 conditions on me when facing a skilled necro or engi. I feel bad for the other class with less removal.

Necro/engi duo is pretty strong atm.

This. When the best class at condition cleaning has sever problems against necromancers, I can’t even imagine what it must feel like to fight as a warrior against them. Necro conditions (especially perma-fear) is WAY to high since the patch and needs to be brought down ASAP.

You’re supposed to have some conditions on you at all times when fighting a condition class. You can’t fully immune direct damage, so why should that be possible with conditions?

Zenith.7301:

Necro condi spec was total garbage pre- this patch. You are so disgustingly ignorant when it comes to the class.

Its only damaging condition was bleed, and his chill and poison conditions were on 15+ sec cooldowns, so if an ele or guardian was around, guess what, conditions were wiped clean.

If a thief on d/p had shadow arts? Guess what, every time he stealthed he wiped off the necro’s damage.

Necro’s conditions isn’t what’s killing people. It’s the Terror chain created by 2 necros with Epidemic.

No. Necros condition spec was average and not garbage. They lacked survivability and mobility (which they still do). They were buffed in the wrong way by gaining extra fears and duration which is why terror is doing so much.

Also, I agree that even now, a single necro is not broken, just a slightly bit OP but its when 2 necros/HGH engis team up that the conditions flying out on an AREA are too much for the team to keep up with.

In summary, I vote that either necros/engis get some sort of diminishing effect on their condition stacking (this requires major revamps so I doubt it will happen) or their aoe condition abilities need to be toned down.

Lopez.7369:

You’re supposed to have some conditions on you at all times when fighting a condition class. You can’t fully immune direct damage, so why should that be possible with conditions?

Again, no one is asking necros to lose their condition power. People are talking about double necros or necro+engi teaming and destroying 3-4 people on point due to the massive area of effect conditions flying around.

Demon.5082:

Again, no one is asking necros to lose their condition power. People are talking about double necros or necro+engi teaming and destroying 3-4 people on point due to the massive area of effect conditions flying around.

Why the hell are 3-4 people all standing on the point eating AoEs like that?

And we have a winner!

Vena.8436:

Demon.5082:

Again, no one is asking necros to lose their condition power. People are talking about double necros or necro+engi teaming and destroying 3-4 people on point due to the massive area of effect conditions flying around.

Why the hell are 3-4 people all standing on the point eating AoEs like that?

Chilled? Stunned? Also, epidemic is not really avoidable like grenades or other aoes. The only thing you can do is not stack in 600 range of the target and that is not simple for melee/aoe healers :-(