Guild Wars 2

Dot’s should never be bursty. The damage should be spread overtime, 2 ticks shouldn’t kill you, and if it does, it needs to be fixed.

Burn damage scaling needs to be reduced by 20-30%

Poison traits need to be switched to bleed traits, as poison already has an effect of reduced healing. It does not make sense for poison to be able to tick for 3k + an additional effect.

yes conditions have to be presure damage over time and… there couldnt be classes that are efectively inmune to condis and others that can perpetual cleanse them… if condi cleanses are so abundant condis needs to be bursty to be a thing… to fix condis first have to fix availavility of condi cleanses and condi inmunitys

I’m of the mindset that if I hit you with my strongest abilities/eat a full combo you should die in a reasonable time frame. Be in near instant with power or over the next few seconds with conditions.

If you do want to make DoTs take more time, you’ll need to vastly scale back cleanse options (especially traits) to compensate, or condi will drop out of the meta entirely.

IMO, this would involve something drastic like removing all cleanse traits and only allowing condi removal from skills, then balancing those accordingly.

If everyone is offering conditions all at once, why should it not be bursty? If you and your team’s fault for running glass builds, not having an Ele to swap to, etc.

Anet made it our responsibility to swap classes before a game starts.

Saiyan.1704:

If everyone is offering conditions all at once, why should it not be bursty? If you and your team’s fault for running glass builds, not having an Ele to swap to, etc.

Anet made it our responsibility to swap classes before a game starts.

This “just bring a counter” argument is how we snowballed into the current mess of condi burst vs rolling cleanses we have now.

Rather than taking a stand, anet just keeps pilling on to each side of the scales hoping kitten will balance out eventually.

It’s gotten so bad they had to invent a whole new boon just to give immunity to conditions. They never should have let things get to the point where Resistance was ever needed.

My suggestion has been voiced here many times but idk if anyone actually likes it or not: Revert condi to the prestacking change functionality (burn doesn’t stack, poison doesn’t stack etc.) but now in order to not screw over people specializing in a certain condi for each condi you take the damage of the player putting out the most damage in that condi (In the case that multiple condi users attack a target together like a burn guard, poison thief, bleed ranger, etc.) Then buff their durations so they can be just as damaging as they are now if left untouched and MASSIVELY scale back condi removal while also changing the function of condi removal (Each skill/trait the removes condi removal would specialize in either removing impairing condis like weakness and chill, or removing damaging condis like burn and poison) Now cleansing becomes more mindful and meaningful while conditions are allowed to fulfill a DoT playstyle for those that want it but also not be shut down by infinite amounts of condi removal (also allows for debuff type playstyles with the classes that have lots of debilitating conditions)

Substance E.4852:

Saiyan.1704:

If everyone is offering conditions all at once, why should it not be bursty? If you and your team’s fault for running glass builds, not having an Ele to swap to, etc.

Anet made it our responsibility to swap classes before a game starts.

This “just bring a counter” argument is how we snowballed into the current mess of condi burst vs rolling cleanses we have now.

Rather than taking a stand, anet just keeps pilling on to each side of the scales hoping kitten will balance out eventually.

It’s gotten so bad they had to invent a whole new boon just to give immunity to conditions. They never should have let things get to the point where Resistance was ever needed.

Bringing a “counter class” is what yall voted for..

As for Resistance, that came out with Revenant, the boon being this other new thing the class had. They eventually gave it to other classes, with Guardian being the last class they gave it to (on 1 shout that no one ever uses). It’s not exactly a boon that replaces profession specific cleanses… we still need cleanses. It’s more of a quality of life addition (think warrior).

Symbolic DH with cleanse on block can also counter most, if not all, condi classes; it’s not just Ele that helps vs condi. So that 1 Guardian on your team who keeps on dying to condi needs to either learn other builds or needs to l2p.

megilandil.7506:

yes conditions have to be presure damage over time and… there couldnt be classes that are efectively inmune to condis and others that can perpetual cleanse them… if condi cleanses are so abundant condis needs to be bursty to be a thing… to fix condis first have to fix availavility of condi cleanses and condi inmunitys

I’m more than happy to give up the massive condi cleanse we have for the condi spam to stop.

So many classes apply multiple condis at once, its a mini-game just to keep them cleared.

its a mini-game just to keep them cleared.

You arnt supposed to be able to clear them all all the time.

Sigmoid.7082:

its a mini-game just to keep them cleared.

You arnt supposed to be able to clear them all all the time.

You arent supposed to be able to stack burning to 3k with only auto attacks, but here we are

Kahrgan.7401:

Sigmoid.7082:

its a mini-game just to keep them cleared.

You arnt supposed to be able to clear them all all the time.

You arent supposed to be able to stack burning to 3k with only auto attacks, but here we are

Not even sure about this one because if you ate enough auto attacks to get 8 stacks of burning that way you would have taken significant damage from either damage type.

Kahrgan.7401:

Sigmoid.7082:

its a mini-game just to keep them cleared.

You arnt supposed to be able to clear them all all the time.

You arent supposed to be able to stack burning to 3k with only auto attacks, but here we are

power necromancer gs chain can hit for 3k easily. gravedigger for 10k. these aren’t even on particularly glassy builds either. it’ll kill you just as fast as a condi burn build with 10k burn ticks. especially if you let them reset on you… hell, it’ll cleave your teammates and kill them too most likely.

the thing is if you get hit by a gravedigger who’s kitten fault is it? is it anet’s fault for not giving you more blocks? the game’s fault for allowing such damage to exist? is it the enemy’s fault for using a “power cheese build”?

the logic I see on these sort of threads is abhorrent. so rather than try and further explain I’ll just use the good ol’ meme response.

“Learn to play”

Kahrgan.7401:

Sigmoid.7082:

its a mini-game just to keep them cleared.

You arnt supposed to be able to clear them all all the time.

You arent supposed to be able to stack burning to 3k with only auto attacks, but here we are

from autos… mmmm before this you should be dead…
suposing you are talking about the burn guard to get 8 stacks from autos you need to take 24 autos if traited (1 stack for 3 hits)or 40(1 stack for kittens) if not traited…(and burning duration is to low to stack it from autos) … to get those 8 stack they have to do more than autos(procing blocks, zealots flame/procing radiant fire….)

I just don’t get it! Why complaining about conditions 24/7 while the only real problem is insane burst of some Power builds? One mistake, just ONE mistake and some builds are able to lay you down within 3 seconds which is unacceptable.
So, please, stop complaining about condi, instead tone down Power burst for about 300% ty. Oh, and add on that additional 300% dmg penalty for some range weapons, like Thief P/P, Ranger bow … It is way too easy killing people from safe distance.
Just leave conditions alone!

Conditions would be fine if they were weaker but the game had fewer cleanses and resistance was nerfed to act more like protection. It’s the kittening powercreep that is once again screwing this game up.

But this is not like every other MMORPG. Anet likes its conditions to be bursty, what can you say about that? It’s not a bug or OP thing, it’s a feature.

Okay jokes aside, we have power creep now. With every patch and expansion we will get more and more passives and whatnot. The only dangerous condition dealers in terms of burning are guardians, and they do not have any other condis so whatever condition cleanse you use, you will clear it out. They are only strong if there is a mesmer or a necromancer to drop lots of cover conditions so that burn is not cleansed with a fart. If you die to a burn guard, it’s your fault you didn’t have condi cleanse or that you got into a fight with it. Also condition damage is a one trick pony. It can devastate teams but if a condi comp is unlucky and fights a team with a good ele or two decent eles then they are pretty much hard countered unless they can burn down ele’s cleanses before getting killed.
On the other hand however, burn damage is really a dangerous condition and it could see a slap to the face from about -20% to even -40% of the damage. But in this case a burn guardian should get an access, and I mean a real frequent access to more cover conditions while dropping burn so that it is not cleansed with a random sneeze.

Anyway, it all comes down to rather wrong desing that every class can pretty much do what others do but better or worse. This gives broken builds that carry bad players higher in ranks and when it comes to high gold, low plat you get those players that are said to be on your level, but in terms of experience they are toddlers that just deal damage and die after a few seconds, thus losing a match of those who they get to fight with.

Sifu.9745:

I just don’t get it! Why complaining about conditions 24/7 while the only real problem is insane burst of some Power builds? One mistake, just ONE mistake and some builds are able to lay you down within 3 seconds which is unacceptable.
So, please, stop complaining about condi, instead tone down Power burst for about 300% ty. Oh, and add on that additional 300% dmg penalty for some range weapons, like Thief P/P, Ranger bow ... It is way too easy killing people from safe distance.
Just leave conditions alone!

You talk about full zerker builds here, they are squish. If you do that mistake then well... I don’t see a problem. But if they make a mistake it’s almost a free kill if you burst it good. Besides, in age of constant passive procs that save people, you can at least counter some of that burst, dodge it or something. If you let yourself get killed by a power build in a few seconds then it’s an issue of you know what. But on the side note, a power shatter mesmer can get a little annoying at times, but it is relatively easy to kill one once you burst him first.

In a game where all professions can heal and cleanse of course DoT should be bursty to be meaningful.

Vitali.5039:

In a game where all professions can heal and cleanse of course DoT should be bursty to be meaningful.

right, and if you’re running a bunker guard like myself just laugh and thank them for the boons/kill them.

Condition damage should be removed ENTIRELY as a play-style. It would need drastic changes. But it would be better as a whole for the game. It’s so anti-GuildWars-like. They force you to constantly watch over your bar. Over their duration, their application, your condi cleanses CDs and so forth. It feels forced, it doesn’t feel organic whatsoever. When you fight a power build you focus so much more on the game, it’s several times more fun.

I know it’s never gonna happen, so whatever.

Not sure if burst condi damage is bad. What IS bad design is encouraging the tactic of running around the victim to exploit the targeting systems appalling lag (or bugs?) and thereby negate any counters EXCEPT cleanse.

High condi burst just has too many game mechanic exploits in PvP.

A simple solution would be to make some casting static only, then the skill is with the caster and not the poor quality of some parts of the game engine. The real problem for PvP is combining high DoT burst with high mobility. An alternative is a general mechanic that slows movement say 1% for every DoT active, then you have a counter other than cleanse – not a great one ofc but one requiring a bit of thought rather than key mash, i.e. you could go too far with the spamming in some situations and hence skill is required. There is some justice to this, if the victim can’t runaway from the DoT damage shouldn’t the DoTter receive a movement penalty? DoT till you’re immobile?
The other reason for this suggestion is that with the rising number of leap effects snare effects are becoming defensively worthless. If you want to be more positive you could instead say add a 1% movement buff for every DoT on the victim.

Personally I think high melee professions shouldn’t be capable of high spell damage and v.v., After all we are not restricted to one character only. The problem with ability spread is that it makes professions pointless, countering this with elite specs will in the end be pointless as well. But it’s not my game or livelihood, however other games with a more distinct classes/professions became more attractive as GW2 rolls onward.

Put simply you don’t roll a thief to be a great sharpshooter, nor a ranger to be a great healer, or a warrior to burn people to death etc. I mean where does this end? Why not just dump professions totally and have the elite roles, and of course remove all the garbage abilities that no doubt add pointless lag/processing to the game engine.

Mudifcation keeps designers employed but in the end kills a RP game. ESOL looks a more attractive investment with limited game time with every additional cross-profession elite spec added to the game.

Saiyan.1704:

Guardian being the last class they gave it to (on 1 shout that no one ever uses).

Necromancer still does not have any source of resistance.

I mean, OP’s not wrong. Power builds need 3 stats to do damage because they were designed to be bursty (with low sustain) and condi only needs 1 or 2 because they were supposed to wear down their opponents and have enough sustain to do so.

But since Anet got rid of all the good defensive condi amulets (cele, settler) and introduced condition stacking thanks to PvE this kind of got reversed: condi builds now burst while power can go bunker (druid, scrapper, ele, to name a few).

Sadly this game is 100% PvE now, don’t even think they’ll do something about it.

witcher.3197:

I mean, OP’s not wrong. Power builds need 3 stats to do damage because they were designed to be bursty (with low sustain) and condi only needs 1 or 2 because they were supposed to wear down their opponents and have enough sustain to do so.

But since Anet got rid of all the good defensive condi amulets (cele, settler) and introduced condition stacking thanks to PvE this kind of got reversed: condi builds now burst while power can go bunker (druid, scrapper, ele, to name a few).

Sadly this game is 100% PvE now, don’t even think they’ll do something about it.

You are correct. Nothing will be done about this and other issues plaguing PvP. Actually with PoF release I believe that condi damage in sPvP will be elevated. Because of the mechanics of the new elite specializations that are releasing soon.

Condi Immob Thief
Condi Guard
Condi Rev
Condi Necro
Condi Mesmer.
Condi Ranger
Power Warrior
Power Engi

The list of the above from my initial PvP tests and viewing. Is what I theorize classes will be doing for PvP. Condi burst is getting raised higher for sure at least in PvE and WvW. For the PoF release. Unless ANet did some last minute balancing of the up and coming elite specs. Which I have no confidence that ANet will do.

Staying on topic tho. Condi damage are and will be technically Damage over Time damage. It’s just that in GW2 atm and more then likely in the near future. The DoTs in the game does the same amount of damage per second. Without having to compromise survival, or commitment, nor is their as much DoT hate as there is up front damage hate in this game, and to top it off you don’t have to be active with DoTs for their damage to apply as you would with up front damage.

Murdock.6547:

Kahrgan.7401:

Sigmoid.7082:

its a mini-game just to keep them cleared.

You arnt supposed to be able to clear them all all the time.

You arent supposed to be able to stack burning to 3k with only auto attacks, but here we are

power necromancer gs chain can hit for 3k easily. gravedigger for 10k. these aren’t even on particularly glassy builds either. it’ll kill you just as fast as a condi burn build with 10k burn ticks. especially if you let them reset on you… hell, it’ll cleave your teammates and kill them too most likely.

the thing is if you get hit by a gravedigger who’s kitten fault is it? is it anet’s fault for not giving you more blocks? the game’s fault for allowing such damage to exist? is it the enemy’s fault for using a “power cheese build”?

the logic I see on these sort of threads is abhorrent. so rather than try and further explain I’ll just use the good ol’ meme response.

“Learn to play”

“learn to play”… pff a nice sentence to avoid the real issue. The real issue is that bad players have bad reactions, so this is the real reason condi has been buffed, so that even bad players are able to compete.
A simple example for my statement, is what this guy just wrote… i mean how can you not see the difference between gravedigger and the condi spam… gravedigger has an easy read animation, that if you dont dodge that you DESERVE to be hit by a 10k XD.
Condi instead? wich is the one animation that tells you are gonna be cond bursted for 10k? There’s no animation, since the condi burst can coming from any skill, or proc/trait/rune.

The main difference between Gravedigger 10k and the condi burst spam? The gravedigger you have to dodge one single attack, the condi spam you have to dodge any single attack!!!!

Part of the problem is certainly that condi classes tend to apply their damage in a very un-fun way.

It feels really good to dodge a 10k gravedigger, or a warrior burst. It feels pretty frustrating to attempt to avoid mesmer clones applying condi, or a thief spamming evades while simultaneously dropping condi.

IMO, if the condi classes (the ones that people complain about) played more like the power classes in terms of their attacks/playstyle, you’d see a lot fewer complaints. Notice that no one whines about condi ranger or condi engi. Those are both pretty ‘fair’ condi builds.

I completely agree that condi damage has gotten out of hand and it should be more DoT like, damage over time. Condis should eventually do more damage than power, but take time to ramp up.

The biggest offender to this is the guardian. With opening bursts that is able to put well over 10 stacks of burning, it can kill you in a couple seconds. This should not be allowed and is the biggest problem. If you’re able to get out of it, it is able to keep very high pressure on you with burn on block, which the burn guard has a lot of.

I’d say a trap thief is another example. Massive opening burst condis. But if you’re able to get out of that, they usually can’t keep up the pressure like the burn guard. Some good players with the right build, can, though.

I can ususally handle most of these guys 1v1, but usually only if I attack first. If it’s 2v1, no chance in hell to last more than a few seconds. If there’s multiple condi professions fighting me and allies, the condi professions usually wins.

If I could change one thing, it’d be the ability for classes to dump massive amounts of condis on someone all at once doing just as much, if not more damage than any power build.

Condition damage is becoming a trollish way to pvp. I play power in spite of condi because i feel more honest in my playstile. Yeah i loose a lot but at least i can keep my head high. Pvp is a joke right now because a lot of classes can just spam their crap and turtle up/block/evade/kite/teleport what have you. In the meantime those with a power set have to actively chase and outplay these lazy cheapskate builds that allow bad players to poison the pvp scene. Condition damage should be slow. Remove all the cleanses and make the ticks do their work SLOWLY. If you can apply those condis and kite me , stay away from me, block me until i am dead then you deserve the win. Another solution would be to drastically reduce the damage of AOE spells and skills, conquest is a game mode that favors that stuff all too much. The game is currently unbalanced to favor some classes , either Anet wakes up and releases more game modes or pvp will be packed with the same classes over and over. It will eventually die because it’s plain boring.

I feel like all we need is for cleanses to convert conditions into a temporary single-condition immunity for a few seconds. No stacking, no removability, just a way to really punish condi users who use their burst before cleanse for just a second or two. So if I cleanse off Poison, I am guaranteed a second or two of breathing room for healing.

This also has a side-effect of making it obvious when a cleanse goes off, which is otherwise a very passive thing.

I also feel like all the non-poison damaging conditions should be a little more meaningful than “Bleeding but with different common durations and base damage.” Which is to say that, like Poison, they should have a secondary effect. Obviously, balance around that change should happen especially for condi overload professions; I’m proposing a more meaningful condi experience, not just saying “condi needs buff lol”. By diversifying what condis do, we can better feel their effects and later provide feedback more compelling than “condi is bad.” (Torment and Confusion, by virtue of being from the days before all damaging conditions stacked, are a decent start, but not everything needs to be extra conditional damage. There’s plenty of little things that can have more interesting effects on the game, like reducing movement speed, cutting damage dealt/cleave damage, adding personally-undesirable effects to attacks, and so on.)

Kahrgan.7401:

Dot’s should never be bursty. The damage should be spread overtime, 2 ticks shouldn’t kill you, and if it does, it needs to be fixed.

Burn damage scaling needs to be reduced by 20-30%

Poison traits need to be switched to bleed traits, as poison already has an effect of reduced healing. It does not make sense for poison to be able to tick for 3k + an additional effect.

Well technically it is performing exactly as stated, however you’ve made this thread because you believe the time it takes for the condition damage to be applied is too short, sorry not sorry.

If you’re out of dodges, aegis, invuln, blocks, etc, you’re screwed from taking direct damage. If you’re out of dodges, aegis, blocks, condition clear, etc then yeah you’re pretty screwed when it comes to condition damage. The only difference between the two is when you’re out of defensive’s and you take a huge hit from direct damage, you’re already dead. When it comes to taking damage from conditions and you out of defensive’s, you can see your death coming ahead of time, and you’re powerless to stop it.

Here’s my advice to you or anyone who wants to suggest changing condition damage or power for that matter. Record yourself play and upload it next time you make a thread complaining, because I can say with pretty high certainty that the majority of people asking for blanket changes with nothing to back it up are usually the ones that either aren’t very good mechanically, or are just don’t have good reaction time when it comes to dealing with said problem, or both.

And don’t think I’m singling you out, but in order for people to understand where you’re coming from you’re going to need to provide more than "I don’t agree, nerf by “X” amount", that’s not going to get you anywhere.

Countless

The only condi i really hate is Necro’s Signet of Spike: if you don’t clean all these 7 conditions (+ those from weapon attacks) or avoid it somehow you are downed under 3 seconds. Plague Signet is on second place.

I’m somewhere in the middle of this argument.

Sifu is obviously not playing a necro so his arguments are biased, just as those who complain about thief shortbow are biased because thieves are killing them.You nerfed their dodge and dodge poison and condi build is super viable now and you want that nerfed.

If condi classes get nerfed(necros at the frontline) they need a massive buff in everything else to compensate to make necros viable, as this will kill their viability not just in pve but in pvp.

Power so far is semi viable but its not even completely buffed yet to make it fully raid viable, and in spvp? its a kill or be killed world.If condi gets nerfed its a buff for burst, and there are really bursty classes(deadeye thief) and d/p thieves who run their heart of thorn equivalent who will mess us up, along with guardians and warriors.Its already hard enough to kill those classes because we get bursted down often before we can deliver our full damage without some sort of support, and don’t get me started on the whole unrated because unrated pvp is such in that random people a lot of times ignore you.

Then there is pve:In fractals especially, that burst of the condi is needed to be able to do damage, so if you lets say nerf poison and burn, then bleeds need to be buffed massively to do damage, and it kills scourge necros, because what are scourge necros gonna do in pve? we lose our barrier and our dps will be nerfed into the ground.

There is also rangers:I heard that power ranger is not viable but their strongest is condi, so nerfing them limits them to healing.

You need to aim carefully at the problem with precision like with a scalpel, rather than a chainsaw or a hatchet if you get my drift.

how to change condi dmg?

first lets talk briefly about direct dmg – its scale with power, critical dmg and critical chance.

condition only scale with condition dmg.
cause it dmg over time you get another factor which is expertise. which is good scale. but has it flaw cause of cleanse and resistance abilities.
so maybe add another factor which cause to condition dmg to be higher if certain factors are met. (not talking about vulnerability)

my suggestion – change precision and critical strike to effect also condition dmg. when your attack crit you condition dmg is buffed by your critical dmg

so lets say you hit foe with 5 bleed stacks for 5 sec. when you do crit dmg also your direct dmg will hit harder (probably with condi build 150% crit chance) and also the bleed tick hits 150% harder

now this will allow to nerf base dmg of conditions and push ppl to use other amulets

carrion will have higher condition and power but low crit chance
viper will hit much harder but low health pool.
it will push ppl to cleanse only when they see the high stacks on them and try to avoid also direct dmg so the hit wont crit or to put weakness on the enemy.

Lowering the dmg in pve will just make the overal dmg lower as well.Sure we got power but power only effects the regular hits.Its like one of my guildies said to me:its no used to have loads and loads of ferocity but very little precision or loads and loads of precision and ferocity and low power.

Low power but super high crit and crit chance:your hits might as well do normal damage as if no crits were done.

Low crit rate and super high crit damage:The crits are so low its rare, unless you are talking about something comparable to like world of warcraft how crit stat increases damage to be good.Also:I don’t know if this is a good idea for pve, as its already hard to put out enough condis with epi before killing, but this might kill condi necro and make us unwanted in raids.

Also:What about people who run scourge? we will need a completely new set.Scourge necros are going to be running something with some sort of healing on it for the shield and condition dmg.We will be severely crippled by this in pve, possibly to the point of being unwanted in raids.

Scourge necros are going to be running something with some sort of healing on it for the shield .. in pve

Unlikely.

um healing power i hear has some sort of effect on increasing total barrier and scourge is all about barrier and barrier sharing, so some sort of healing power is going to be there, and pretty much every class is having some amount of barrier.Eles can get barrier by rolling and using one of their earth attacks for about 8k if they use it right.

and scourge is all about barrier and barrier sharing, so some sort of healing power is going to be there

It really isn’t.

Back on topic. Half the problem with people disliking conditions is at no point does the game actually teach you what they do correctly. There aren’t sufficient mobs early enough that attack you with conditions that people learn. It fosters certain mentalities.

Also the mentality that one damage type has to be X and cant do Y is baffling. They both do the same thing albeit over slightly differently. Both can burst, sustain, poke etc.

Lastly people complain about the wrong things. If a power skill/build is over-preforming people tend to say well this skill is too strong. When a condi build/ skill is over-preforming the entire mechanic is obviously broken, not just that particular build/skill.

But you got to make sure it works in pve too.Also one person said earlier:If condies are nerfed then the defenses against it such as cleanses and resistance need to be nerfed too.Resistance is corruptable i believe, so thats a start. but revenants resistance is a very strong anti condi tool, especially for wvw.

Also:You would have to buff necros survivability a lot so they can survive long enough to see people die from condis.

The condi problem is due to PvE, somewhat. Lets look at PvE. In PvE, every skill should have use, and for a condi class, that means every weapon skill should have condi, otherwise (at least pre Viper), weapon skills would never get used.
So now you have-an auto with condi. Skills 2 through 5 with condi. Normally a second weapon with condi. And then traits and utilities that help condi.
Now we come to PvP. Anet could entirely change the skills, or they could give people enough clear to mostly deal with condi. Now, they do the latter, but being anet, they can’t decide how to do it… so different classes get different amounts in different areas… so only those that have enough condi clear become viable in PvP.
How to fix it? The only thing I can honestly think is make condi burst skills have bigger tells and longer casts, because right now I can normally see power bursts if I’m paying enough attention, but many condi burst skills have little to no extra tells, and are instant casts.

But that would need to be balanced for all.If you make one class cast slower but melee for an example can spam attacks and add billions of condi you have a problem.What about burn guards? How do you deal with how thieves add condi by dodging?

Also:The signet that casts condis and blind has a cast time and a cd before it can be used.

I think one way would be to limit in pvp how much conditions can be added to a target thus limiting dmg, and making other effects still useful.The idea that rolling takes fire effect off or torment only dealing dmg while moving is a nice idea, but if poison deals no damage again, then it will have to be buffed in the reduction of healing, making it useful against enemy teams.Thieves who depend on poison would also need buff in being able to add bleeds which already do less damage than poisons torment and burn.

Also would need to be careful not to kitten up pve and kill necros.I know condis are a pain and necro cd for giving blind and condis sucks, but its a legit way of doing dmg.

Conditions can not be damage over time unless they buff condi damage scaling and make all condi damage builds have higher toughness and vitality to account for the increased time to kill.

Cleanses and resistance would also need to go.

Burst damage has always been king, and delayed damage always requires strong side benefits like the ability to easily cleave DoT’s and be rather survivable to live to see those dots to effect.

But that will never happen on a condi build that’s squishy and is being +1’d to death by daredevils and dragonhunters constantly.

Zenith.7301:

Conditions can not be damage over time unless they buff condi damage scaling and make all condi damage builds have higher toughness and vitality to account for the increased time to kill.

Cleanses and resistance would also need to go.

Burst damage has always been king, and delayed damage always requires strong side benefits like the ability to easily cleave DoT’s and be rather survivable to live to see those dots to effect.

But that will never happen on a condi build that’s squishy and is being +1’d to death by daredevils and dragonhunters constantly.

I understand this. However thus us agreeing on the case condition damage must be as bursty as power damage. How about giving condition damage the same counters as power.

Weakness, protection, invulns only affects power damage. There is way way more of those, then cleanses and resistance. Thu by default making condition damage unbalanced in a player vs player environment.

Not to mention you can get hit with a condi burst, by one player for a 4k tick in one move. That condi move more then likely was instant, and on a very short CD. Also because it’s a DoT, that other player can run and hide in safety while you melt away. Hence where the unfun part of playing against these come from.

No other game I play allows DoTs to keep up with upfront damage, until after a certain time. As they do in GW2. Thus allow DoTs to be a very safe playstyle. More so in the lower rankings when you watch you team mates melt away instantly to DoTs. At that point you are unofficially fighting a 3 or 4v1 because DoTs are just too powerful. I’m starting to see Paragon’s DoTs come close to GW2’s DoTs lethality ratio. However that game also suffers from population crisis, because of grave balance, and match maker issues.

TL:DR Don’t nerf condi damage leave it as is. Either take away protection, weakness, and invulnerability. Or allow these to apply to condition damage as well. Make condition damage play just as active as power damage. If condition damage must have to same burst capability that power gets.

cleanses……let me LOL constant application of condi > cleanses , condi needs a nerf….you should see my "burn " druid go with my lil spirit friend constantly applying burning on my target at 1200 with my staff……you think I am having fun? I am just laughing my ass out to see everyone melt by only using my staff on a condi spec druid…..5 – 6 stacks of burning is really a ll you need + plus bleed and poison I got ? come on condi are stupid atm….my burn druid is OP as **** skirm/nature/druid LoL Inferno Staff is real BB

Condi ruined gw2. On launch PvP was power only and was very engaging and felt like a fighting game. Now it’s aoe Condi spam where 75% of your attention is on watching a tiny status bar

Condi should have been utility instead of damage. Conditions like poison, weakness, slow etc have more nuanced effects that require more brain power to play around than just OH kitten FIRE CLEANSE

Condition are too messed up at this point. I honestly think Anet is aware of the problem, but at this point the issue is too far gone and they have no idea how to fix it. It would require a total overhaul for all conditions, their applications, and their removal. There’s no way anyone would a good sense of game balance would think that conditions in their current implementation is in a good place. Conditions as they are now are good and necessary for PvE so it can be viable for killing bosses with tens of millions of HP. But outside of PvE, the same conditions are being used to kill players with 15k hp. To combat this, at one point, WoW introduced a new stat on gear called resilience. And all it did was reduce damage taken from other players. I’m not saying that is the answer for this game, but I think it’s a direction that is worth looking into.

they can balance stuff between PvP and PvE…cause I ain,t no World Boss and anyone barely sustain this atm

I mean In Black Desert online you literally have skills dat does less damage to players…..it’s not an impossible task

Maybe in pvp, Condi damage increases effectiveness of conditions like cripple/vulnerability/blind instead of buffing damage. So condition classes would be like debuff support.

Protip: you can dodge/block/invul the attacks that apply conditions.