No. For Retaliation, faster attacks =/= more damage taken.
For Confusion, stop autoattacking maybe?
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
No. For Retaliation, faster attacks =/= more damage taken.
For Confusion, stop autoattacking maybe?
Retaliation is a boon which reflects some incoming damage back to its source. Damage returned is fixed per level and scales with power, increasing damage by 1 for every 13.4 power. At level 80, base damage is 267.
Passive damage reflect have no business in any competitive game. They ruin it.
If Anet wants to keep them in, then remove confusion and change Retaliation to a 3 second Boon that reflects 80% of all incoming damage. Remove the easy access guardians have to the ability and the trait that increases the boon by 25%.
Give Retaliation an obvious animation or a shout.
There. Done. Balanced.
Someone pops retal, you stop attacking them or face death. Not this passive damage reflect.
3x Guardian
2x Mesmer
You die if you do nothing. You die faster if you use your abilities and play the game.
We spent a lot of time theorycrafting and discussing during Beta about Retaliation on how to make it just right, not too much, not too low. Right now, it’s at a rather good place. We can’t keep it up on teammates all the time, at best a 50% uptime on 5 persons close to each other and a full time Retaliation on the Guardian requires quite a bit of traits and skills dedication.
In my opinion, this isn’t getting changed any time soon. You’ll have to adapt.
No they need to be removed.
Passive damage reflect have no business in any competitive game. They ruin it.
Every MOBA item with reflect damage says hi.
Spectre damage reflect is only useful once she is tanky. Which requires items. She is very weak early on and her reflect isn’t strong until late game.
Blademail is great against carries. Then again it’s not passive.
You know what you should know this since you quoted MOBA’s, that most of them moved away from passive reflect (don’t know about LoL because I don’t play it) because it’s not a fun type of game play. Killing yourself attacking a target is boring and broken.
Passive damage reflect have no business in any competitive game. They ruin it.
If Anet wants to keep them in, then remove confusion and change Retaliation to a 3 second Boon that reflects 80% of all incoming damage. Remove the easy access guardians have to the ability and the trait that increases the boon by 25%.
Give Retaliation an obvious animation or a shout.
There. Done. Balanced.
Someone pops retal, you stop attacking them or face death. Not this passive damage reflect.
3x Guardian
2x Mesmer
You die if you do nothing. You die faster if you use your abilities and play the game.
No they need to be removed.
Passive damage reflect have no business in any competitive game. They ruin it.
Every MOBA item with reflect damage says hi.
Spectre damage reflect is only useful once she is tanky. Which requires items. She is very weak early on and her reflect isn’t strong until late game.
Blademail is great against carries. Then again it’s not passive.
LoL Thornmail is 30% damage reflect passively though.
Quoting LoL makes your argument invalid.
Might want to come back down to Earth. I agree DOTA 2 has a higher skill cap, but that doesn’t change the fact LoL is pretty much still the reference for MOBA competitive play right now.
Not sure why we are arguing Dota vs. LoL, it’s like arguing whether you like to watch / play Baseball vs. Football. Both games have reflection mechanics anyway, and are considered competitive. Different games that cater to different interests. Besides half of your evidence on both sides is misleading.
Regardless, the way to counter Retaliation is to have a high amount of healing or remove the boon yourself. I’ve been experimenting with all the classes lately, and I can’t think of one that doesn’t have a way to trait or build to be effective against the boon.
What I really think the problem is the Guardian bunker builds that people are running into. I’m not saying the builds themselves are the problem, because I think they are counterable with poison condi-dmg builds. The problem is people don’t want to change their glass cannon builds to deal with the Guardian bunker builds (and other various bunker builds) and instead are asking ANet to fix the supposed problem.
Besides, confusion? Condition removal is easier to come by then confusion, and very few professions can put up confusion. None of them can keep up a meaningful amount of stacks for any decent duration of time.
About confusion, you basicaly say condition mesmer should only do minimal damage. Thats what you say if you apply it to the only class in the game that really uses confusion as a weapon.
Look a condition mesmer, like all mesmers is build around giving the enemy multible bad choices. If you would have played gw1 you would know that. A mesmer is designed around making the enemy a nervous wreck. A well played mesmer gives you only one choice to not take damage and thats running away.
Take a condition mesmer for example, he spawns phantasm that apply tons of bleeds and stacks confusions. That is his strategy to fight you. The problem is that the confusion will hurt you if you attack the phantasms and the phantasms will hurt you if you do nothing. Multible bad choices, the class is designed tokitten you off. It is its job.
Besides, confusion? Condition removal is easier to come by then confusion, and very few professions can put up confusion. None of them can keep up a meaningful amount of stacks for any decent duration of time.
A condition mesmer can but its like 50% of his damage, asking for a remove of that condition is like asking a warrior to give up his sword.
About confusion, you basicaly say condition mesmer should only do minimal damage. Thats what you say if you apply it to the only class in the game that really uses confusion as a weapon.
Look a condition mesmer, like all mesmers is build around giving the enemy multible bad choices. If you would have played gw1 you would know that. A mesmer is designed around making the enemy a nervous wreck. A well played mesmer gives you only one choice to not take damage and thats running away.
Take a condition mesmer for example, he spawns phantasm that apply tons of bleeds and stacks confusions. That is his strategy to fight you. The problem is that the confusion will hurt you if you attack the phantasms and the phantasms will hurt you if you do nothing. Multible bad choices, the class is designed tokitten you off. It is its job.
Besides, confusion? Condition removal is easier to come by then confusion, and very few professions can put up confusion. None of them can keep up a meaningful amount of stacks for any decent duration of time.
A condition mesmer can but its like 50% of his damage, asking for a remove of that condition is like asking a warrior to give up his sword.
Wait, so you are saying it is OK to have a class that you’re only PROPER choice when fighting it is to RUN AWAY?
About confusion, you basicaly say condition mesmer should only do minimal damage. Thats what you say if you apply it to the only class in the game that really uses confusion as a weapon.
Look a condition mesmer, like all mesmers is build around giving the enemy multible bad choices. If you would have played gw1 you would know that. A mesmer is designed around making the enemy a nervous wreck. A well played mesmer gives you only one choice to not take damage and thats running away.
Take a condition mesmer for example, he spawns phantasm that apply tons of bleeds and stacks confusions. That is his strategy to fight you. The problem is that the confusion will hurt you if you attack the phantasms and the phantasms will hurt you if you do nothing. Multible bad choices, the class is designed tokitten you off. It is its job.
Besides, confusion? Condition removal is easier to come by then confusion, and very few professions can put up confusion. None of them can keep up a meaningful amount of stacks for any decent duration of time.
A condition mesmer can but its like 50% of his damage, asking for a remove of that condition is like asking a warrior to give up his sword.
Wait, so you are saying it is OK to have a class that you’re only PROPER choice when fighting it is to RUN AWAY?
/facepalm
No you can use aoe to kill the phantasm which would use not many skills so confusion wont hurt you alot or you can actually remove the condition? 99% of all people I fight as a mesmer ignore both and die and I dont exaggerate here.
That whole thread is basicaly a big whine. Its about people that dont want to change their playstyle to win against mesmers/guardians. You cant fight both classes the usual way of just running in and spam your burst skills and that something many wont accept.
Use AoE to kill phantasms? Unless you’re an Ele you’re going to take retal damage from each one.
Let’s say you kill 2 that require 4 hits each to take out (most whirl aoe abilities hit 4 times). 300 damage retal. You just did 2400 damage to yourself for killing their phantasms…which will come back out in 12 seconds. Considering that they typically hit for 3k, I’d say killing them is a waste of time.
Heaven forbid your whirl hits 3 or 4 illusions total. Then you’re really screwed.
No you’re better off sticking to the Mesmer and trying to dodge the attacks/shatters.
Oooops, sorry about that Isabis, I could swear retaliation was just a % of the damage taken reflected back to the enemy… maybe it was like that in beta? I’m sorry, you proved me wrong. I still stand by the point that confusion is okay, altough I’d have to crunch some numbers and see if the difference in dmg taken of slow vs fast autoattackers amounts to something meaningfull.
Daays, you are a league of legends hater which invalidates everything you’ve written although I didn’t even read it. See I can get on a high-horse too.
P.s. not adding anything useful to the thread since I was uninformed. Just wanted to take a stab at that guy. I’m out
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
I like it quite a bit. I think it provides interesting choices (go for the kill and hurt yourself or back off).
It may be a bit much on certain classes (Guardian’s 20 second Retaliation from one skill alone, I’m looking at you), but I wouldn’t even be comfortable saying that just yet.
I would really like the Retaliation visual to be more dominant though. As it is right now, that “hard choice” is hard to make since you don’t even know that a class has the retaliation buff (quickly anyway).
