Guild Wars 2

ive recently come to see that 95% of battles in conquest mode involves ignoble styles of engagement.

there will rarely ever be a “fair fight” because of the way this game mode is set up. 1 side will always be outnumbered as random people pop up unnoticed out of nowhere (thanks to the maps having so many obstructions) and proceed to jump their opponents like a buncha gangsters.

almost all fights results in someone sneaking up behind their back in the middle of a fight and blasting them away. thats the most successful tactic you can utilize yet in real life thats the dirtiest way to fight imaginable.

it doesnt matter how much skill you have, you will almost never win a 1v2 meaning numbers are everything. the major determining factor of winning is who will have the most sneak attacks and how many goons will show up to outnumber the opponent.

to me this is trashy. theres no honor in this, i hardly ever feel any pride for winning a battle because they are always unfair settings. the fights are so chaotic and fluxuating in numbers so often you wouldnt even be able tell if it was a fair fight

i always considered node defense an honorable activity, but here protecting a node is pointless unless youre a dedicated tank because the nodes are so small and they get neutralized so fast. anyone should be able to fight on the node and keep it defended, but with this its impossible, 1 wrong dodge and the points already half way neutralized and most classes need way more space to fight than what is offered.

the 3 node approach has people buzzing around everywhere and the terrain is so terribly obstructive its constantly resulting in unsuspecting gangbangs out of nowhere and sneak up blowaways on already engaged fighers 90% of the game.

i hope a deathmatch mode will come soon. in gw1 you had your crew they had theirs, numbers were even, you saw all your enemies etc and strategy ensued. what we have in conquest is prevalence of the lowliest form of trash fighting ive ever witnessed in an mmo.

ps. thank you anet for all that you do

edited to be less abrasive

The game is not about honor, sadly.
The game is about winning.

Play the easiest and most op build as dirty and dishonorable as possible.

dishonorable win > honorable loss

Lachanche.6859:

dishonorable win > honorable loss

i dont really get why people would want to win so badly when the rewards are nothing but simple aesthetics. id much prefer a close loss than a blowout win because everyone on 1 team was running faceroll fotm builds and the other team was just trying to have fun.

Lachanche.6859:

dishonorable win > honorable loss

So, If i hire a killer who kills the entire enemy team (or relatives/friends of them so they are on those peoples furnerals) That is better then loosing to a faceroll team with five highly skilled elementalists singing the teams hymn?

Darnis.4056:

This thread is hilarious…
You guys are a bunch of meanies!
NO HONOR

oh dont get me wrong im completely assimilated into this playstyle. ive backshot many o people. ive been part of the 5v1 gank many times. it just sorta dawned on me recently how cheap it is and how frequently it occurs, and how this conquest mode encourages this to happen simply by its design. than comparing it with gw1 i thought dang at least then everyone started out on an equal footing.

This is simply the way fights are. Chaotic and full of uneven odds.
Throughout history tactics such as flanking, using terrain are basic strategy.

Straight on Duels would be the “Honorable” fights you are looking for.

I would like to preface this by saying I like Conquest and have always enjoyed Arathi Basin, Codex and LOL’s Dominion. I have no issue with Conquest, but just with perhaps the design and layout of these maps.

Players need to be given the option not to fight or to fight when/where they want to.

There is a serious issue with the tactics of this game where you can not avoid fighting even when you know you are disadvantaged.

I think the maps are too small or something. Or maybe it is the skills ets. You can not choose not to fight.

When I play Dominion in LOL, I can decide to move off a point and back to safety or back to my team mates, no matter what class I am playing, if I see an outnumberd fight coming.

In this game, unless you are playing an incredibly mobile class, people will just run you down. You’ve chosen not to fight but the offensive mobility>>defensive mobility and you just get run down. eg. You can speed yourself, leap away and someone will just leap 2x and slow you. So you can not choose not to fight, a lot of the time.

Also with all the nooks crannies and ways onto a point, it often feels like you are being ganked on the point. In LOL this happens between points. When on a point you can see what is coming and make a decision.

I am not sure what the solution to this is but the experience is incredibly frustrating as a player. You are trying to employ tactics but the game with its class system and small maps removes them.

I admit, after 1000+ games, I don’t much like the SPVP for these reasons, and only do my daily.

Lachanche.6859:

dishonorable win > honorable loss

Rewardless victory == rewardless loss.

Has anyone in this thread read the book, Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion by David Sirlin? If not you should read that book, and rethink how ridiculous you sound right now. Also a good book is The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance by Josh Waitzkin.

Honor in fighting? In warfare?

Someone’s been watching too many movies…

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Has anyone in this thread read the book, Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion by David Sirlin? If not you should read that book, and rethink how ridiculous you sound right now. Also a good book is The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance by Josh Waitzkin.

Problem is, most people to have fun.

Conquest is all about strategy, teamwork, coordination and synergy. Its not dirty fighting.

This is not something Hotjoin/Solo-Q will educate players properly on and results in frustration like the OP’s.

it doesnt matter how much skill you have, you will almost never win a 1v2 meaning numbers are everything.

“losing a 1v2” – isn’t that called balance? Or are you really that better than the people you play against that you really expect to survive two opponents?

to me this is trashy slimey garbage. theres no honor in this, i hardly ever feel any pride for winning a battle because they are always unfair settings. the fights are so chaotic and fluxuating in numbers so often you wouldnt even be able tell if it was a fair fight

It makes no sense. If you see you are going to lose the battle, and that the opposing team are coming to outnumber you, why don’t you just move to another node? That’s why they put more than one on the map.
Surely if there is more of them where you are, there are less of them somewhere else, no? And no, you cannot win when outnumbered – you can only delay.

i always considered node defense an honorable activity, but here protecting a node is pointless unless youre a dedicated tank because the nodes are so small and they get neutralized so fast. anyone should be able to fight on the node and keep it defended, but with this its impossible, 1 wrong dodge and the points already half way neutralized and most classes need way more space to fight than what is offered.

Many classes can can hold nodes for 30- 44.5 seconds, sometimes more.
If people are really moving around the 3 nodes (and I mean your team too) then surely if you have managed to hold the node for 30s then you can retreat, heal and come back to hold the node longer?

i hope a deathmatch mode will come soon.

No. Unless you play a thief and think everyone else should play thief, or unles you like to be killed by thieves, deathmatch would be complete chaos and would only be good for gank builds (the very thing you hate).
Not even mentioning the fact that as soon as 1 person dies in one of the teams then it would be 9v10, and gradually 8v10, 7v10 etc. so the entire fight comes down to “who manage to gank a player of the opposing team 10v1 first” (if you don’t believe me, check GvG videos)

This isn’t street fighter.

Honorable fights? Open server list, find first with “duel” word in description, bam, you can have your honorable fights all day every day.

Tellah.8073:

ive recently come to see that 95% of battles in conquest mode involves trashy lowlife styles of engagement.

there will rarely ever be a “fair fight” because of the way this game mode is set up. 1 side will always be outnumbered as random people pop up unnoticed out of nowhere (thanks to the maps having so many obstructions) and proceed to jump their opponents like a buncha gangsters.

almost all fights results in someone sneaking up behind their back in the middle of a fight and blasting them away. thats the most successful tactic you can utilize yet in real life thats the dirtiest way to fight imaginable.

it doesnt matter how much skill you have, you will almost never win a 1v2 meaning numbers are everything. the major determining factor of winning is who will have the most sneak ganks and how many goons will show up to outnumber the opponent.

to me this is trashy slimey garbage. theres no honor in this, i hardly ever feel any pride for winning a battle because they are always unfair settings. the fights are so chaotic and fluxuating in numbers so often you wouldnt even be able tell if it was a fair fight

i always considered node defense an honorable activity, but here protecting a node is pointless unless youre a dedicated tank because the nodes are so small and they get neutralized so fast. anyone should be able to fight on the node and keep it defended, but with this its impossible, 1 wrong dodge and the points already half way neutralized and most classes need way more space to fight than what is offered.

the 3 node approach has people buzzing around everywhere and the terrain is so terribly obstructive its constantly resulting in unsuspecting gangbangs out of nowhere and sneak up blowaways on already engaged fighers 90% of the game.

i hope a deathmatch mode will come soon. in gw1 you had your crew they had theirs, numbers were even, you saw all your enemies etc and strategy ensued. what we have in conquest is the lowliest form of gangbang trash fighting ive ever witnessed in an mmo.

ps. thank you anet for all that you do

I remember feeling the same way a while back. I’d get into a decent 1v1 on a side point and pretty soon a roamer would come and gank me before I could react.

I was able to find ways to adjust, though. Remember that every second you fight outnumbered, your team has an advantage on the rest of the map. That means that every fight is meaningful, even outnumbered ones.

There are a lot of even fights as well, mostly at the mid point. Sometimes a roamer will enter the midfight and really swing the fight, but in general, midfights are the type of slugfest you’re looking for.

If you’re playing hotjoin, then your complaints are completely valid. There’s no reason to fight even numbers there, because one team usually has 1-4 more people playing than the other side, and they’re just zerging for glory anyway.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-War-Sun-Tzu/dp/1599869772/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1381468416&sr=8-7&keywords=The+art+of+war

Tellah. Buy it, read it, learn. Best $3.89 that you could spend.

strength in numbers.
this is working as intended.

your fault for not disengaging when your 1 vs 1 got interrupted by his friends.

wow op way to have a serious scrub mentality, just because you don’t like how a game plays doesn’t mean everyone should play by your imaginary scrub rules

I suppose the more “honorable” thing to do would be to allow my teammates to die then? I agree with others, you sound absolutely ridiculous.

yeah im sorry, but i’ll disagree class balance is an entirely different matter, but i think the people who play with me know very well how much i abuse line of sight. it’s part of the game it would be quite boring if everything was open all the time it limits gameplay

Tellah.8073:

ive recently come to see that 95% of battles in conquest mode involves trashy lowlife styles of engagement.

there will rarely ever be a “fair fight” because of the way this game mode is set up. 1 side will always be outnumbered as random people pop up unnoticed out of nowhere (thanks to the maps having so many obstructions) and proceed to jump their opponents like a buncha gangsters.

almost all fights results in someone sneaking up behind their back in the middle of a fight and blasting them away. thats the most successful tactic you can utilize yet in real life thats the dirtiest way to fight imaginable.

it doesnt matter how much skill you have, you will almost never win a 1v2 meaning numbers are everything. the major determining factor of winning is who will have the most sneak ganks and how many goons will show up to outnumber the opponent.

to me this is trashy slimey garbage. theres no honor in this, i hardly ever feel any pride for winning a battle because they are always unfair settings. the fights are so chaotic and fluxuating in numbers so often you wouldnt even be able tell if it was a fair fight

i always considered node defense an honorable activity, but here protecting a node is pointless unless youre a dedicated tank because the nodes are so small and they get neutralized so fast. anyone should be able to fight on the node and keep it defended, but with this its impossible, 1 wrong dodge and the points already half way neutralized and most classes need way more space to fight than what is offered.

the 3 node approach has people buzzing around everywhere and the terrain is so terribly obstructive its constantly resulting in unsuspecting gangbangs out of nowhere and sneak up blowaways on already engaged fighers 90% of the game.

i hope a deathmatch mode will come soon. in gw1 you had your crew they had theirs, numbers were even, you saw all your enemies etc and strategy ensued. what we have in conquest is the lowliest form of gangbang trash fighting ive ever witnessed in an mmo.

ps. thank you anet for all that you do

You do realize conquest mode is not about killing other players right? It is about capping points. You completely failed in this post. Maybe if it was deathmatch, but not even then.

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.

furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.

Divinity.8041:

You do realize conquest mode is not about killing other players right? It is about capping points. You completely failed in this post. Maybe if it was deathmatch, but not even then.

Hotjoin doesn’t particularly encourage people to cap. In fact, it does almost the opposite because of the lack of leaving penalty and the ability to enter/leave mid-match. The lack of rewards for actually winning doesn’t help this situation at all. GW1’s casual PvP functioned much better in this regard. In Alliance Battles, you would certainly fight/kill other players, but it didn’t reward you with points towards victory; they were instead obstacles you had to eliminate in order to acquire cap points, which actually captured based on the number of people on a point and didn’t stalemate when it was 3v1.

Tellah.8073:

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.

furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.

truth.

Also…my friend who is a federal air marshall, and our combative instructors in the Army always say nothing we teach you here is really that good. The person who wins the fight is the first person with backup…straight up. You never want to finish a fight, always wait for backup, and never stay in the fight when you can remove yourself.

I don’t know what the OP is smoking, but this isn’t some victorian duel where you challenge someone and drink tea too.

Tellah.8073:

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.

furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.

so because people enjoy winning in their chosen hobby they need to "examine your priorities in life. " nop sorry scrub

you have all the tools the enemy does , just because you chose to handicap yourself like the massive scrub that you are doesn’t mean everyone else has to

Bogy.2953:

Tellah.8073:

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.

furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.

so because people enjoy winning in their chosen hobby they need to "examine your priorities in life. " nop sorry scrub

you have all the tools the enemy does , just because you chose to handicap yourself like the massive scrub that you are doesn’t mean everyone else has to

it is this mentality that makes pvp stink. youre basically saying just pick the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find and go out and have “fun” winning with a completely unmerited advantage while making anyone who doesnt pick these builds miserable in the process, likely resulting in them leaving with a very bitter experience. on top of this you proclaim this childish mentality with twerpish arrogance as if you yourself actually did anything to deserve it. amazing.

this reminds me of the movie billy madison when he was destroying a buncha kids at dodgeball and thinking he was some big tough guy because of it. dont be that guy

Tellah.8073:

Bogy.2953:

Tellah.8073:

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.

furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.

so because people enjoy winning in their chosen hobby they need to "examine your priorities in life. " nop sorry scrub

you have all the tools the enemy does , just because you chose to handicap yourself like the massive scrub that you are doesn’t mean everyone else has to

it is this mentality that makes pvp stink. youre basically saying just pick the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find and go out and have “fun” winning with a completely unmerited advantage while making anyone who doesnt pick these builds miserable in the process, likely resulting in them leaving with a very bitter experience. on top of this you proclaim this childish mentality with twerpish arrogance as if you yourself actually did anything to deserve it. amazing.

this reminds me of the movie billy madison when he was destroying a buncha kids at dodgeball and thinking he was some big tough guy because of it. dont be that guy

you have the option to play "the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find " just like your opponent , if you choose to be a scrub and think that picking a kittenty build somehow makes you better at the game that’s your fault for playing like a scrub.

their is nothing unfair about pvp here every class has viable competitive builds and everyone has access to said builds class and equipment , if you go into a game with the scrub mentality don’t expect everyone to be a scrub like you , some people play to win

Im just going to say OP, if you want to gauge your personal skill so badly against another person on a 1 on 1 why are you joining a team play pvp mode?

You are calling dirty fighting to team play. just like those dummies that go “URR DURR 3vs1” what were we supossed to do? Make a line and wait until 1 stops fighting so we can join? That’s what duel servers are for.

Bogy.2953:

Tellah.8073:

Bogy.2953:

Tellah.8073:

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.

furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.

so because people enjoy winning in their chosen hobby they need to "examine your priorities in life. " nop sorry scrub

you have all the tools the enemy does , just because you chose to handicap yourself like the massive scrub that you are doesn’t mean everyone else has to

it is this mentality that makes pvp stink. youre basically saying just pick the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find and go out and have “fun” winning with a completely unmerited advantage while making anyone who doesnt pick these builds miserable in the process, likely resulting in them leaving with a very bitter experience. on top of this you proclaim this childish mentality with twerpish arrogance as if you yourself actually did anything to deserve it. amazing.

this reminds me of the movie billy madison when he was destroying a buncha kids at dodgeball and thinking he was some big tough guy because of it. dont be that guy

you have the option to play "the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find " just like your opponent , if you choose to be a scrub and think that picking a kittenty build somehow makes you better at the game that’s your fault for playing like a scrub.

their is nothing unfair about pvp here every class has viable competitive builds and everyone has access to said builds class and equipment , if you go into a game with the scrub mentality don’t expect everyone to be a scrub like you , some people play to win

so youre saying everyone should roll a hammer/bow regen warrior and thats your idea of a fun game, but thats your choice if you want to play ezmode at the expense of the integrity of the game, but how can you seriously get any sense of enjoyment out of winning if know you have a blatantly large advantage that has nothing to do with your own personal contribution?

its like being allowed to pick any pieces you want in a chess game, your opponent decides to pick the normal set up as not to create major anomolies in the gameplay, and you decide to pick all queens. you proceed to obliterate your opponent and then get in your opponents face bragging about how good you are and its all about winning and tell him to read some stupid book and everyone else is a scrub and its their fault for not picking all queens. this is your idea of fun?

Ugruk.4069:

Im just going to say OP, if you want to gauge your personal skill so badly against another person on a 1 on 1 why are you joining a team play pvp mode?

You are calling dirty fighting to team play. just like those dummies that go “URR DURR 3vs1” what were we supossed to do? Make a line and wait until 1 stops fighting so we can join? That’s what duel servers are for.

this is not anything personal against anyone… its an observation of how the design of 3node conquest encourages and results in constantly a lopsided dirty style of battle. if you look at gw1 everyone started off on an equal footing. nobody got walloped from behind unsuspectingly, you didnt get snuck up on in the middle of a fight, you knew where everyone was, and the classes were relatively balanced

im not saying anything against the players. players gonna play. its the design of conquest

nm.. this topic went south ^^

hackks.3687:

Honor in fighting? In warfare?

Someone’s been watching too many movies…

video games = warfare?

someones been playing to many video games

You can’t talk about dirty fighting in game like this. This game isn’t balanced for 1v1 so certain classes will have advantage over others, in other words one of them is using ‘dirty fighting’. With this thinking the only honorable fights would be if both players used same class, build, weapons, everything. You should just play for fun and if you can’t do so in normal servers join some dueling ones.

Dhunis.9072:

You can’t talk about dirty fighting in game like this. This game isn’t balanced for 1v1 so certain classes will have advantage over others, in other words one of them is using ‘dirty fighting’. With this thinking the only honorable fights would be if both players used same class, build, weapons, everything. You should just play for fun and if you can’t do so in normal servers join some dueling ones.

it doesnt matter what you call it, it is what it is. by all human references jumping someone 3v1 or sneaking up and smashing someone while they are distracted is dirty. but i am not criticizing the players (though i couldve worded my OP a little better to reflect that), i am criticizing the structure of the gamemode that makes it happen.

for example (class balance aside) if there were only 1 node to fight over the battles would be far more pleasant, over 2 it would be also, as our backs would be much less vulnerable. in 3node conquest there are no front lines and people are just flying around everywhere leading to numerous backshooting ganks. if it were a deathmatch it would nearly eliminate these occurrences because people wouldnt be directed and distracted by node captures, they would generally stick together and be paying far more attention to their surroundings and be far more hesitant before jumping into battle. this is all speculation of course

Tellah.8073:

by all human references jumping someone 3v1 or sneaking up and smashing someone while they are distracted is dirty.

It’s tactics, which is one of the main points to team games/sports.

also, if you’re currently facing a 1vs3, that means that 2 of your teammates are currently acting unopposed, which is arguably much better for your team then you winning that fight would be.

Tellah.8073:

Bogy.2953:

Tellah.8073:

Bogy.2953:

Tellah.8073:

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.

furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.

so because people enjoy winning in their chosen hobby they need to "examine your priorities in life. " nop sorry scrub

you have all the tools the enemy does , just because you chose to handicap yourself like the massive scrub that you are doesn’t mean everyone else has to

it is this mentality that makes pvp stink. youre basically saying just pick the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find and go out and have “fun” winning with a completely unmerited advantage while making anyone who doesnt pick these builds miserable in the process, likely resulting in them leaving with a very bitter experience. on top of this you proclaim this childish mentality with twerpish arrogance as if you yourself actually did anything to deserve it. amazing.

this reminds me of the movie billy madison when he was destroying a buncha kids at dodgeball and thinking he was some big tough guy because of it. dont be that guy

you have the option to play "the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find " just like your opponent , if you choose to be a scrub and think that picking a kittenty build somehow makes you better at the game that’s your fault for playing like a scrub.

their is nothing unfair about pvp here every class has viable competitive builds and everyone has access to said builds class and equipment , if you go into a game with the scrub mentality don’t expect everyone to be a scrub like you , some people play to win

so youre saying everyone should roll a hammer/bow regen warrior and thats your idea of a fun game, but thats your choice if you want to play ezmode at the expense of the integrity of the game, but how can you seriously get any sense of enjoyment out of winning if know you have a blatantly large advantage that has nothing to do with your own personal contribution?

its like being allowed to pick any pieces you want in a chess game, your opponent decides to pick the normal set up as not to create major anomolies in the gameplay, and you decide to pick all queens. you proceed to obliterate your opponent and then get in your opponents face bragging about how good you are and its all about winning and tell him to read some stupid book and everyone else is a scrub and its their fault for not picking all queens. this is your idea of fun?

if everyone roles a lb/ham war guess what you do if you aren’t a scrub , you find a counter and win

every team starts on equal footing on conquest with no points capped , if one team is going around ganking n capping points one by one thru numbers advantage the other team is ethire capping the other 2 points thru numbers advantage or they are bad and dont get how rotations work in conquest mode

as for gw1 balance im guessing you were a scrub in gw1 as well because fyi halls end map was a 3 way match where you could lose simply because a team didnt like you

and guess what in gvg split pushing was a huge deal and teams would constantly rotate to try and get a advantage somewhere

Tellah.8073:

Dhunis.9072:

You can’t talk about dirty fighting in game like this. This game isn’t balanced for 1v1 so certain classes will have advantage over others, in other words one of them is using ‘dirty fighting’. With this thinking the only honorable fights would be if both players used same class, build, weapons, everything. You should just play for fun and if you can’t do so in normal servers join some dueling ones.

it doesnt matter what you call it, it is what it is. by all human references jumping someone 3v1 or sneaking up and smashing someone while they are distracted is dirty. but i am not criticizing the players (though i couldve worded my OP a little better to reflect that), i am criticizing the structure of the gamemode that makes it happen.

for example (class balance aside) if there were only 1 node to fight over the battles would be far more pleasant, over 2 it would be also, as our backs would be much less vulnerable. in 3node conquest there are no front lines and people are just flying around everywhere leading to numerous backshooting ganks. if it were a deathmatch it would nearly eliminate these occurrences because people wouldnt be directed and distracted by node captures, they would generally stick together and be paying far more attention to their surroundings and be far more hesitant before jumping into battle. this is all speculation of course

No, I’m sorry but you need to think more about the implications of what you are saying.

First, this game isn’t only about “Battles”. This game is about winning by accumulating points. Sure there will be battles that will be necessary to do this, but you also have a need for: defense, mobility, support.
From your post, I understand you like a good 1v1 fight, but how useful is someone whose speciality is mobility or defense in a 1v1? Yep. Useless. With the current game mode, the “non DPS” builds have opportunities.

You feel that the game mode forces people to go in a certain number of FoTM builds? That’s probably true, but let me tell you that it would be way worse with deathmatch for build diversity.

1 node to fight over becomes deathmatch as the node will be consistenly uncapped (white), movement skills become useless, downed state becomes OP.
Deathmatch/1 node (same difference) is just the worst game type for GW2.

Just play another class already or get on TS with your friends and ask for help when you’re overwhelmed on a specific point. Or just play duel servers, as others said.

PS: on a side note, I agree that fights ends up 2v1 or 3v1 – not even denying this. But this is because every second you are fighting without capping, you are wasting the time of your team and losing.
So the best strategy becomes to attack 2v1 to kill quickly and cap quickly – but I know of no balanced game where you are supposed to win a 1v2.

Tellah.8073:

Dhunis.9072:

You can’t talk about dirty fighting in game like this. This game isn’t balanced for 1v1 so certain classes will have advantage over others, in other words one of them is using ‘dirty fighting’. With this thinking the only honorable fights would be if both players used same class, build, weapons, everything. You should just play for fun and if you can’t do so in normal servers join some dueling ones.

it doesnt matter what you call it, it is what it is. by all human references jumping someone 3v1 or sneaking up and smashing someone while they are distracted is dirty. but i am not criticizing the players (though i couldve worded my OP a little better to reflect that), i am criticizing the structure of the gamemode that makes it happen.

for example (class balance aside) if there were only 1 node to fight over the battles would be far more pleasant, over 2 it would be also, as our backs would be much less vulnerable. in 3node conquest there are no front lines and people are just flying around everywhere leading to numerous backshooting ganks. if it were a deathmatch it would nearly eliminate these occurrences because people wouldnt be directed and distracted by node captures, they would generally stick together and be paying far more attention to their surroundings and be far more hesitant before jumping into battle. this is all speculation of course

I find this whole topic hilarious. To think that someone playing a pvp game mode calling players ‘dirty’ for using in-game mechanics to win. Wow. The only time I would call a player dirty in any pvp match regardless of the game type is if they were cheating via hacking or some odd exploit.

Good pvpers are going to do whatever it takes to increase their chances to win using the rule set outlined by the in-game mechanics. There’s no honor there…only logic.

And deathmatch is not some kind of holy-angels-on-harps-with-bright-white-lights option to ‘honorable’ battles where you directly face your opponent, fire your gun and then wait for them to fire back while you reload.

And let’s make sure we are using the word ‘gank’ correctly here. Are you a low level character getting killed by higher level players while you are questing in a low level zone? Are a number of other players camping your corpse preventing you from progressing? Are players camping your spawn point?

If you are constantly in uneven fights its because your team is losing fights elsewhere and/or have a bunch of idiots for team-mates that don’t know how to assualt points properly. Uneven fights happens in all types of pvp not just conquest. You must feel like RVR type pvp is slimey too I guess. Any kind of radomness is bad for you I guess but for a lot of us that is what makes pvp fun.

If i see my teammate 1on1 someone on a neutral node in a ranked match ofc i will help my teammate burst that guy down as quickly as possible so we can secure the node for us and you know, gain points in order to win.

Ranked matches arent about the 1on1s its about getting to 500 before the other team does. If i want fair 1on1s ill go play on a duel server, its as simple as that,

Sizzle Hint.1820:

If i want fair 1on1s ill go play on a duel server, its as simple as that,

According to the OP’s logic, I would imagine that a 1v1 dual would still be ‘dirty’ if you stealth or line of sight or teleport or retaliation or anything surprising.

I think OP would prefer a 1v1 golden gun match type with slappers only in one big room with no doorways or stairs. First slap wins.

I think I would be more sympathetic to OP if the issue was “I hate 4v5 matches in solo q,” and not “No fair! You’re a dirty, dirty player for sneaking up on me in pvp and that is why I am losing.”

PVP by it’s very nature is all about being unpredictable/unconventional. You learn to be proactive/reactive or die.

Lexiculus.5296:

Sizzle Hint.1820:

If i want fair 1on1s ill go play on a duel server, its as simple as that,

According to the OP’s logic, I would imagine that a 1v1 dual would still be ‘dirty’ if you stealth or line of sight or teleport or retaliation or anything surprising.

I think OP would prefer a 1v1 golden gun match type with slappers only in one big room with no doorways or stairs. First slap wins.

I think I would be more sympathetic to OP if the issue was “I hate 4v5 matches in solo q,” and not “No fair! You’re a dirty, dirty player for sneaking up on me in pvp and that is why I am losing.”

PVP by it’s very nature is all about being unpredictable/unconventional. You learn to be proactive/reactive or die.

Actually about that stealth…

I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who has cited Sun Tzu and David Sirlin. In gaming, as in real life, the concept of “honor” only works when everyone involved in a fight or competition agrees to abide by the rules of honor. All too often, “honor” is defined by people in online games as limiting oneself and not using certain skills, tactics, or strategies. It’s fine if you go up against other people who likewise agree to limit themselves in some way, but you cannot force others to abide by YOUR rules, and there is no such thing as “honor.” Unless Anet has disallowed something because it is an exploit, or the devs choose to rebalance skills, you have to accept the strategies you don’t like as part of the game and work against them. For instance, people today often complain about “camping.” Are you aware that “camping” was how countless armies won victories back in the day? It’s not about what’s “honorable,” it’s about whether you win or lose. In a real war, would you expect people to be “honorable?” No; it’s about living or dying. Honor is simply an impediment in such situations, since if you let down your guard and expect that your opponent act honorably, he’ll just ignore you and take advantage of your reservations and self-limitations. An army would not limit its numbers to equal those of its opponents; armies would take advantage of their superior numbers to utterly crush the opposition. But you’re asking that here, people should all fight one-on-one and take turns fighting. That’s utterly ridiculous.

Alleging that someone is dishonorable means nothing, except to you. Legal and illegal conduct is something altogether different, and exploits—not just “this is OP/unfair” but actual gamebreaking behavior that was not foreseen by Anet—should definitely be reported, but “honor” is your problem, not everyone else’s. I don’t mean to be rude, but that is a simple truth in life, right up there with “you can’t have your cake and eat it too” and “people are not perfect.” If you don’t like being backstabbed, for example, find a counter-build. Just because you don’t like permastealth thieves doesn’t mean that your opinion must become law. They will not stop using those builds unless and until Anet chooses to change certain Thief traits and skills. There is nothing objectively wrong about their behavior; they are playing the game with the tools handed to them by Anet. It just so happens that permastealth Thieves can get away with a lot. But the skills that allow such builds haven’t been nerfed yet, so Anet has acknowledged that it is a viable playstyle.

If you go to a fight carrying a sword and expect people not to bring guns, honor isn’t going to protect you, and you’ll lose until you bring a gun of your own and know how to use it. Honor is irrelevant—all that matters is who wins or loses, so if you don’t want to fight people you consider dishonorable, find those whom you would consider honorable or just don’t play against other players if you don’t like the way the game is set up.

once again this is a video game not world war 2. the purpose of a game is for everyone to have fun not just you. you just want to constantly play ezmode faceroll classes so you can have a huge advantage over the majority of players who are trying to have fun simply because the game mechanics allow it. and somehow you are proud of this which really just shows what kinda person you are and that you are so obsessed with winning some silly little video game youre willing to ruin the experience for everyone else who doesnt play like you and dont mind the game devolving into a faceroll circlejerk.

people like you are a blight on pvp and it seems your self-esteem is so reliant on winning a stupid game i can only guess you have little going for you in real life

Lexiculus.5296:

Sizzle Hint.1820:

If i want fair 1on1s ill go play on a duel server, its as simple as that,

According to the OP’s logic, I would imagine that a 1v1 dual would still be ‘dirty’ if you stealth or line of sight or teleport or retaliation or anything surprising.

I think OP would prefer a 1v1 golden gun match type with slappers only in one big room with no doorways or stairs. First slap wins.

I think I would be more sympathetic to OP if the issue was “I hate 4v5 matches in solo q,” and not “No fair! You’re a dirty, dirty player for sneaking up on me in pvp and that is why I am losing.”

PVP by it’s very nature is all about being unpredictable/unconventional. You learn to be proactive/reactive or die.

thanks for putting all those words in my mouth. and thanks for completely missing the point of the entire thread, that it isnt about me or you or players, its about the design of conquest that makes 90% of the battles stupidly lopsided or backshooting bonanza’s. i realize these things will happen, but 90% of every battle is like this so i felt compelled to call attention to it

What’s wrong with dirty fighting? Here’s the thing: If you’re going into combat against someone, whether it be in real life, or a game, you’ve decided that you want to overcome them. Throwing dirt in someone’s eyes and stabbing them in the back may seem dishonorable compared to an open duel to the death, but the end result is fundamentally the same: your opponent is defeated, and likely had the means to stop you.

If you’re going to engage in combat, what you’re doing is both a physical and mental arms race against your opponent. You strive to be faster, stronger, and better geared, all while trying to outwit him as well. If you sneak up on an opponent and catch him off guard, that’s his fault for not watching his flank, or getting tunnel vision, or one of any number of faults.

You don’t win games by preparing yourself for battles you can’t win, you win by preparing in such a way that counters your opponent. I’ve seen some truly awesome point defense (saw a video where a guardian preemptively predicated a fully stealthed team strike and popped his heal to block THE ENTIRE NUKE), and good players will set themselves somewhere they have a large terrain advantage in. There’s nothing wrong with this: it’s the nature of the beast. Honorable combat is fun and all, but if you’re playing SPvP for it, you’re playing the wrong game. This is about teamwork, hit and run tactics, bursts of damage, and clever use of terrain. Organized teams, the ones this game is built for, don’t have issues with overwhelming zergs or the like. They learn how to combat these tactics and adapt.

Manijin.3428:

What’s wrong with dirty fighting? Here’s the thing: If you’re going into combat against someone, whether it be in real life, or a game, you’ve decided that you want to overcome them. Throwing dirt in someone’s eyes and stabbing them in the back may seem dishonorable compared to an open duel to the death, but the end result is fundamentally the same: your opponent is defeated, and likely had the means to stop you.

If you’re going to engage in combat, what you’re doing is both a physical and mental arms race against your opponent. You strive to be faster, stronger, and better geared, all while trying to outwit him as well. If you sneak up on an opponent and catch him off guard, that’s his fault for not watching his flank, or getting tunnel vision, or one of any number of faults.

You don’t win games by preparing yourself for battles you can’t win, you win by preparing in such a way that counters your opponent. I’ve seen some truly awesome point defense (saw a video where a guardian preemptively predicated a fully stealthed team strike and popped his heal to block THE ENTIRE NUKE), and good players will set themselves somewhere they have a large terrain advantage in. There’s nothing wrong with this: it’s the nature of the beast. Honorable combat is fun and all, but if you’re playing SPvP for it, you’re playing the wrong game. This is about teamwork, hit and run tactics, bursts of damage, and clever use of terrain. Organized teams, the ones this game is built for, don’t have issues with overwhelming zergs or the like. They learn how to combat these tactics and adapt.

to me thats called being smart, crafty, tricky, etc, not dirty. and once again its not the players i am criticizing, it is the game mode that promotes it. if 3 players turn a corner and theres 1 enemy of course they will all smash him to pieces. if you run up on a 1v1 of course you are going to help. its dirty but thats just how the game is played because of the way it is designed.

my focus is on the 3 node conquest mode and too many visual obstructions. it removes frontlines and results in constant backshooting and people popping up out of nowhere and overwhelming smaller numbers. if there werent so many obstructions you could see people come and you could disengage, that would be skill. but as it is 3 players pop up from around the corner and blast you away in seconds, thats called random luck and is not fun. if there were front lines and less obstruction backshooting would be rare, but with 3 nodes people are running around everywhere resulting in this all the time

and this is my complaint, not that it occurs at all, but that it occurs almost every battle and the main crux of winning is not personal skill, positioning, constructive teamwork, but instead its who can get the most backshots and who can waylay the opponents with superior numbers. though these should be a factor in the game, it shouldnt be the most important factor

I’m pretty sure tellah’s group mates leave her to die to 2v1 on home while assaulting far.. or something ..

Doesn’t sound like the game I’m playing at all.
Who ever gets the most backshots win? what?..

I guess this could be true when you’re 57% and 60% matchmaking ranking team/solo….
It also seems you are not the experienced pvp player you make yourself out to be…