Guild Wars 2

There still needs to be a healthy blend between fair fights and uneven ones. But when the game fails to give you the information necessary to have a chance, well it allows for things to seem dirty. I consider something dirty if there is no reasonable response available with the information at your disposal. Getting 1v2’d there just isn’t a reasonable response. Only thing is hope your team wins harder somewhere else and just delay.

This has a lot to do with having no ‘safe zone’ or designated area to make use of. Now lets take a look at Gw1 gametype. You have NPCs you can fall back while also having a frequent unguarded objective. Falling back will have a delayed impact later in the game but also gives a fighting chance.

In Gw2 can try to run to another point where your team is but your coming into that point low with 2 healthy opponents trailing. Also tends to be a further distance to run to get support than in Gw1. Point is probably neutralized too and now getting into a fight that is marginally better than a 1v2. Sadly best choice is probably to die on point and try and delay a bit.

Now there is still more to it for why this happens so frequently mostly because of the UI and mobility discrepancies but going over those gets quite specific.

Blimm.5028:

The game is not about honor, sadly.
The game is about winning.

Play the easiest and most op build as dirty and dishonorable as possible.

Exactly.

Stick to maps that 2vs2 or 3vs3 at off peak hours to get the most fun and interactive experience.

Some sorts of bunker engi builds are designed to lure the enemies in a 2v1 they can’t finish, forcing them to be outnumbered on other nodes. They can be secondary bunkers, sticking to the far point, preventing the enemy from capturing it and draining resources from them.

Outnumbering opponents on nodes is the basis of splitting. Conquest mode is a split mode, so congratulations, you just discovered the basic mechanic of guild wars pvp.

Seems like the OP is referencing GW1 pvp to HA/RA/TA, but in general those where quite “fun modes” in GW1, GvG was the main part of pvp. And splitting and outnumbering opponents have been a pretty usual tactic over there as well. Thats where teamplay/coordination comes in.

Im not fully satisfied with the current conquest mode but there a few things that i have witness in arena type modes and i dont want to happen again…

Really long fights…..Put 3 bunkers vs another 3 bunkers…..GG

The first team that loses a player gets a huge disadvantage.Well in a 2v2 format it would be imposible to win a 2v1…Thats why DM imo is gonna fail….From the time someone dies there would be no turning back.You cant turn the tables and its not fun to watch..Thats also means that matches may end pretty fast

And last but not least Conquest forces fights to occur on points and makes important positioning..It doesnt suggest you a fight, it force you to do it, you cant spent your time wondering around the map searching for the right moment to strike, you must strike as soon as possible cause the other team is earning winning points.

They are right in this, just a DM wont work, it needs some secondary mechanics to make it fun to watch and play..Still this conquest need a lot of changes, the way it is now doenst work as it should.

And here some of my thoughts
1.Remove offcombat regenaration..Make regen boon more worthy
2.Increase the time the points are being capped when more than 1 ppl are standing on them
3.Remove the far point..Every point should have the same distance.Force teams to fight more 2v2 fights.The mid zerg should be addressed..Its too chaotic.And removes the need to have a bunker Guardian in mid
4.Put some kind of wards or show enemies that are visible from team on minimap..I should know if my teamate in far is having problem or if he is countering it easily.Many times i ran far to help teamate only to realize that he had a minor problem and far was good, it was a total waste of time that i couldnt avoid it without voicechat

Dont know how hard are these changes, but they said that map design is kinda easy, also i geuss removing off combat regenaration wont be that hard too..

Tellah.8073:

Manijin.3428:

What’s wrong with dirty fighting? Here’s the thing: If you’re going into combat against someone, whether it be in real life, or a game, you’ve decided that you want to overcome them. Throwing dirt in someone’s eyes and stabbing them in the back may seem dishonorable compared to an open duel to the death, but the end result is fundamentally the same: your opponent is defeated, and likely had the means to stop you.

If you’re going to engage in combat, what you’re doing is both a physical and mental arms race against your opponent. You strive to be faster, stronger, and better geared, all while trying to outwit him as well. If you sneak up on an opponent and catch him off guard, that’s his fault for not watching his flank, or getting tunnel vision, or one of any number of faults.

You don’t win games by preparing yourself for battles you can’t win, you win by preparing in such a way that counters your opponent. I’ve seen some truly awesome point defense (saw a video where a guardian preemptively predicated a fully stealthed team strike and popped his heal to block THE ENTIRE NUKE), and good players will set themselves somewhere they have a large terrain advantage in. There’s nothing wrong with this: it’s the nature of the beast. Honorable combat is fun and all, but if you’re playing SPvP for it, you’re playing the wrong game. This is about teamwork, hit and run tactics, bursts of damage, and clever use of terrain. Organized teams, the ones this game is built for, don’t have issues with overwhelming zergs or the like. They learn how to combat these tactics and adapt.

to me thats called being smart, crafty, tricky, etc, not dirty. and once again its not the players i am criticizing, it is the game mode that promotes it. if 3 players turn a corner and theres 1 enemy of course they will all smash him to pieces. if you run up on a 1v1 of course you are going to help. its dirty but thats just how the game is played because of the way it is designed.

my focus is on the 3 node conquest mode and too many visual obstructions. it removes frontlines and results in constant backshooting and people popping up out of nowhere and overwhelming smaller numbers. if there werent so many obstructions you could see people come and you could disengage, that would be skill. but as it is 3 players pop up from around the corner and blast you away in seconds, thats called random luck and is not fun. if there were front lines and less obstruction backshooting would be rare, but with 3 nodes people are running around everywhere resulting in this all the time

and this is my complaint, not that it occurs at all, but that it occurs almost every battle and the main crux of winning is not personal skill, positioning, constructive teamwork, but instead its who can get the most backshots and who can waylay the opponents with superior numbers. though these should be a factor in the game, it shouldnt be the most important factor

most (if not all) good teams have a bunker on their home (most of the times it’s gonna be a spirit ranger) so if you want to backcap that you have to either 1on1 (you accomplish absolutely nothing if you cant neutral the node or kill him) that ranger (goodluck) or 2on1 the ranger, but if u 2on1 on far u have less people on middle or home and you will be outnumbered there. See what im getting at? It has it’s downside too. Ofc if u leave ur homemode open for a thief to decap quickly (it takes like 10 sec in foefire for example) then you got outplayed…

Strategy vs. Tactics.

Tactics is how you win a fight.
Strategy is how you choose your fights to win the war.

GW2 PvP is a team game, with a strategic element. Coordinating with your team and ganging up on the enemy (and the reverse – going to a teammate to support him) is part of the strategy to the game, and adds more elements of skill/teamplay than pure tactical fights.

Especially considering the dueling mechanics of this game are a bit lacking (see my other posts in this forum), it’s important to have the strategic element for a skillful/thoughtful game.

Because we are talking mainly about the game mode conquest here or possible alternatives, I wonder if a 5v5v5 on a triangular map with 3 cap points on corners, starting point on segments/side and 1 point in middle (gives 2x more points) could be interesting
That would basically be like extended conquest and is probably already balanced.

PvP is a naturally dirty endeavour my friend, suit up and hold your own accordingly.

- Bliss

carrying a losing team is better than being carried.

so the people that have fun with the current version of conquest have to stop and adapt to your kittenty rules so you can be the only one having fun? no thnx scrub why don’t you go play a single player game or something unless the ai in those is cheap and dishonorable too you kitten baby

as for you thinking team death match is somehow going to make this better , good grief you are kittening dumb

heres what happens when tdm is put in, people find a super defensive cheesy 5v5 comp they run around spiking 1 person at a time and retreating with defensive buffs intill their cds are back and do it again and if you aren’t running something similar you lose

no game mode can ever be free from cheese builds but some like 3 point conquest can allow for multiple build type/play styles to be viable

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Has anyone in this thread read the book, Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion by David Sirlin? If not you should read that book, and rethink how ridiculous you sound right now. Also a good book is The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance by Josh Waitzkin.

Just looked at Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion by David Sirlin and read the start.

Sounds like this bloke is so full of s!ht. Anyone that reads this and takes this seriously needs to reconsider why they are playing video games.

Even if playing competitively this book is not the way to go about it.

Best to just stay out of PvP. It isn’t fun.

Me fight player 1v1 and I win but he don’t die and he run. I chase him, he’s dishonourable, and I die to their whole team because me only looking at the fraction of the screen directly infront of my character.
I post on forums, this game unfair, nobody honour.

Rieselle.5079:

Especially considering the dueling mechanics of this game are a bit lacking (see my other posts in this forum), it’s important to have the strategic element for a skillful/thoughtful game.

Thats a good point but i feel that making a mode which focuses more on this dueling (3v3 i would prefer actually) would be a great way to analyze and fix those dueling mechanics.

Bishop.5938:

Just looked at Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion by David Sirlin and read the start.

Sounds like this bloke is so full of s!ht. Anyone that reads this and takes this seriously needs to reconsider why they are playing video games.

Even if playing competitively this book is not the way to go about it.

You’re wrong, we all know the worlds greatest winners have always walked the path most travelled. They never innovate, just play what the masses play. Yep.

I know the frustration to lose a game and you know I could beat the enemy players in 1vs1 but then you need to realize they don’t won because their super strong in 1vs1, they won because their strong together. You lose mostly because the enemy team play smarter. I only talk about Team Que (Solo Q and Hot Join are need other options Conquest only works with a Team that can communicate quickly).
So try to know where the enemy player are. 5 ppl in the mid then home and far are free try to tap it. only 3 ppl in mid so probably the thief is roaming try to look for him. And so on…

I think the most dishonorable and worst aspect of conquest game mode is the incentive to keep a player in downed state, rather than stomp—when possible. I take no pleasure in “bleeding out” my opponent. I have already defeated them, no reason to make them sit there and endure me occasionally hitting their corpse and running around dodging their futile downed state DPS

Tellah.8073:

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

You make yourself sound so ignorant with this point right here. Have you ever heard of League of Legends? LoL, is basically considered a sport with the amount of viewers it gets at its events and online (as you said) for a video game, is phenomenal. I am not saying GW2, can get on the same tier of LoL, but people outside of esports look at VIDEO GAMES seriously. League of Legends just recently got a Coke Zero sponsorship for an amateur tournament.

You cannot be serious with this, “If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game, you may want to step back and examine your life priorities.” You do not know how much esports have grown since 1998, and to make a statement like that, you make it obvious that you hardly even care. So I will stop wasting my time with you, and this thread, since it is probably doomed to be deleted.

tapsumbong.6470:

Tellah.8073:

Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

Quoted for truth.

Quoted for lolremembercontext because League of Legends has a prize of more than $1 million USD for the winning team of the world championship.

If PvP isn’t about winning, what is it about? I don’t see how anyone can legitimately claim that people play PvP for reasons other than to try to win. Not to say that losing can’t be fun if you’re up against a challenging opponent who gives you a run for your money, but I see no reason why people wouldn’t have the goal of winning in a deliberately competitive environment like sPvP. Moreover, there’s nothing wrong with taking the game seriously and trying your hardest to learn the game and win it consistently.

Furthermore, I’d like you to answer the following question before you attempt to refute what I’ve said: is there any rule in the game that prohibits the behavior you’re complaining about or makes it a violation of the terms of service or EULA?

There are many things in this world that aren’t nice or moral, but are nevertheless legal. The only thing stopping you from doing them is your conscience. For instance, it is perfectly legal (in America, at least) to use offensive language to curse at someone. Is it a virtuous or moral thing to do so? No. But so long as what you say isn’t a threat, doesn’t allege something false about the person’s character that would damage his reputation, and isn’t raising a ruckus that breaches the peace, you can curse at someone to your heart’s content—it’s perfectly legal. If the Founders wanted to make swearing illegal they would have done so. Here, Anet designed the game to allow for “3v1 backstabs” like you’re talking about. They have in no way, shape, or form said that it is not a legitimate strategy or made efforts to counter it. Therefore, you’re arguing with the way the game is designed. As I said before, if you want to find people who agree with your outlook on PvP, feel free. But don’t make demands on the developers to conform to your desires. 3v1’ing is legal, as is swearing, and regardless of how distasteful or “dishonorable” or “dirty” they are, none of that changes their legality. So long as they are legal, you can’t do anything about them and your complaints will be in vain.

tapsumbong.6470:

Last time I checked, this was a Guild Wars 2 forum, and as far as I remember there has been one tournament with a $10k prize pool and less than 2.5k viewers. Bet them winners are living the high life!!

The guy you quoted said:

If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.

You said:

tapsumbong.6470:

Quoted for truth.

If you don’t call him out on the lack of context, you can’t give anybody grief for calling both of you out.