Conquest's Design Needs Fixing!

Conquest's Design Needs Fixing!

in PvP

Posted by: BurrTheKing.8571

BurrTheKing.8571

Capture Points Design

  • Mid points should all be around Graveyard size. Side points shouldn’t be Graveyard big, but larger than they are currently. This will make putting AoE’s on point less powerful because you can actually avoid them.
  • Need more interesting terrain than just “flat circle.” Having more destructible
  • The side with the most players starts to capture the point. If there are 3 Red and 2 Blue, Red will slowly start to take the point. This will mostly benefit side point battles. It will also make the initial battle for mid more important because choosing to send some1 at far will mean the other team will have a numbers advantage.
  • Decapping a undefended point is far too fast, it basically forces sitting on your home to make sure a thief doesn’t come along and instantly set it to neutral. This just encourages avoiding fighting and going for easy point flips all game.

Map Mechanics

  • They have gone from being too important to almost never used. I don’t think I’ve seen a Lord kill this season.
  • They should give a significant but not game defining benefit. Perhaps move them closer than they currently are; right now you end up having to go out of your way to gain access. I like the idea behind the Eternal Coliseum buffs, though the shield seems weaker than the sword. They’re useful to go for but you’re not going to send the entire team to get them.

Build Craft

  • The changes above would allow for the return of more tanky ammys because one player could no longer perma deny the capture from 2 other players.
  • More skill splitting. Instead of destroying a skill/trait because it’s too strong in another mode, just change it in that mode. The playerbase is not so stupid that a slight change is going to confuse them. This will allow for indirect nerfs as well by making another skill to be buffed to counter w/e is strong atm. If the counter is specific to one thing, it’s not direct power creep. When use of one strong build declines due to a counter becoming popular, there’s a chance for that build to see use again someday instead of just being nerfed into uselessness.
  • #Buildtemplates
Just an angry old man…

Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)

Conquest's Design Needs Fixing!

in PvP

Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

There’s different maps with different Point sizes.
Foefire have really Big Open points where classes with huge mobility and range have a big advantage, while Forest have Smaller Points, granting advantage for AoE spammers, with also more high ground access for players to play a different strategy. In other maps you can play differently. Coliseum grant an advantage to classes with mobility (expecially teleports to higher/lower groungs), Skyhammer grant advantage to CC classes to lock the enemy in the point when the laser fire or kick them away killing them down the cliff.

Make the point captured when you’r number is higher than the enemies kill different strategies and will make tank/decapper builds seriously OP. You will no need to kill the enemy to capture a point, only to kick them away. Please don’t do that.

Decapping far while the enemy team is all in mid is Strategy. Have a good Rotation grant Victory in a large amount of situations. I played different matches where we killed the enemy in mid all the time but lost because no one chose to cap close and the enemy thief/esmer/warrior/ranger was always there to decap, or we wom without conquer the mid but decapping the “Far”. Sometimes you just can’t win the enemy team in a teamfight because they have a better team composition or better players, then you have to play wisely and decap/hold far instead of mit, making the enemy team split while you make a pressing on them.
Out-rotate the enemy team is one of the best ways to win and a totally legit one.

About map mechanics that are “frequently ignored”, try to win a silent storm, capricorn or coliseum ignoring the map mechanics.
Maybe kill the lord is not the first choice but I win different matches in this way.
Even in the Forest kill a Boss grant an advantage and kill 2 grant a Big advantage.

About the builds, I don’t want to turn back to Bunker builds. There’s already different bunker/support builds that live too much longer. The actual meta is funny and fast. You have to chose when active your skills, be fast to kill the enemy before he kills you, cooperate with the team to burst down and enemy and ress an ally.

There’s no need to more bunkers and decappers and your suggestions focus all to make them return and be seriously OP.

The only thing that I agree is to make different fixes between game modes. ANet already did that for different skills and traits, but there’s even more need of that because that will make things balanced in sPvP without make them Op or Underwielming in other game modes.

Conquest's Design Needs Fixing!

in PvP

Posted by: witcher.3197

witcher.3197

Capture Points Design

  • Mid points should all be around Graveyard size. Side points shouldn’t be Graveyard big, but larger than they are currently. This will make putting AoE’s on point less powerful because you can actually avoid them.

That’s way oversized, but something like Capricorn middle would be nice.

  • The changes above would allow for the return of more tanky ammys because one player could no longer perma deny the capture from 2 other players.

Quite the opposite, actually. With more room to kite and stand out of AoE it’d become much much easier to survive on point.

Conquest's Design Needs Fixing!

in PvP

Posted by: BurrTheKing.8571

BurrTheKing.8571

Capture Points Design

  • Mid points should all be around Graveyard size. Side points shouldn’t be Graveyard big, but larger than they are currently. This will make putting AoE’s on point less powerful because you can actually avoid them.

That’s way oversized, but something like Capricorn middle would be nice.

  • The changes above would allow for the return of more tanky ammys because one player could no longer perma deny the capture from 2 other players.

Quite the opposite, actually. With more room to kite and stand out of AoE it’d become much much easier to survive on point.

Doesn’t matter if they survive more, if you have 2 players you will end up taking the point anyways because you outnumber them. Then the second player can leave and you just have the other fight the tank for as long as they’re willing to stay there wasting their time.

The larger point size only works if the change in capture mechanics go along with it. The point is to encourage moving around and matching the number on point and fighting instead of intentionally avoiding them and going for easy decaps. I borrowed the idea from Battlefield.

Just an angry old man…

Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)

(edited by BurrTheKing.8571)

Conquest's Design Needs Fixing!

in PvP

Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Your capture mechanic would just make outnumbering fights way stronger than outnumbering fights already is.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

Conquest's Design Needs Fixing!

in PvP

Posted by: BurrTheKing.8571

BurrTheKing.8571

Your capture mechanic would just make outnumbering fights way stronger than outnumbering fights already is.

It’s always going to be strong, the balance isn’t fun because of how unskilled it is, but its balanced enough that I can’t think of any build that can easily win an outnumbered fight without the enemies being terrible.

This mechanic would mean that the first side to secure a kill can actually start taking the mid point instead of people constantly trying to trickle in to deny the cap for as long as possible.

On side points it’s really silly that one Druid can just hold out for ages for backup while 2 from the opposing side just wail on them. Those builds will still be good with this mechanic and can still hold for a while because the cap wouldn’t be as fast – but it wouldn’t be for the length it does now.

Do you think the current design of conquest is fine as is?

Just an angry old man…

Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)

Conquest's Design Needs Fixing!

in PvP

Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

Could use some slightly bigger points in some areas, but that’s the only thing. Conquest is otherwise fine and doesn’t need these changes to the mode’s mechanics.

  • Graveyard size points are too big. It’s too easy to hold via kiting.
  • Points need to remain flat with room on the outsides so that you can actually knock people off. Foefire side points have obstructions and it’s super annoying.
  • Definite NO to “team with more players starts to cap”. This change makes many builds and skills completely irrelevant. Decap specialist with knockbacks is now dead. Bunker is now dead since you can’t hold in an outnumbered fight.
  • Map mechanics are mostly fine. Foefire lord is just limited in scope because it’s a desperation play only; if you’re in the lead, you give up too much by going for it. Treb on Khylo is the only super crappy one. The map re-design didn’t help, but the treb damage has been bad since HoT because power creep in builds meant treb damage is less meaningful.
  • You can’t bring back tanky amulets unless you nerf HoT power creep. THAT is the reason they were removed. Even then, they shouldn’t be returned; the amulet system should be re-worked to allow more customization of stats.
  • Skill splits should only be used sparingly for numbers tweaks without destroying the entirety of the skill (slight reduction in boon uptime or number of condi stacks). It’s a pain for developers to maintain and not fun for casual users when skills do something completely different between modes.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz