Guild Wars 2

Game ended at approximately 9:18 PM Eastern, and was played on this account.

I will admit before going on that matchmaking has been better since the patch (been keeping a spreadsheet of match data) but I just queued into something that confuses me on how it was even able to pop. Details below:

• Full premade vs full solo players.
• Premade has decent comp.
• Solos (my team) have 2 mesmers and 2 thieves.
• 4v5, our team’s fifth never even loaded into the map.

Putting the 4v5 aside for the time being, why was a comp with 2 thieves and 2 mesmers even allowed to be put against a full premade? Ill provide a screenshot of the aftergame screen as soon as my stream catches up to it on the vod. Was just a bit upsetting. The worst part was everyone in the match unanimously agreed there was no point in even attempting the match. I ended up AFKing to grab a drink. :/

BLUna.7928:

Game ended at approximately 9:18 PM Eastern, and was played on this account.

I will admit before going on that matchmaking has been better since the patch (been keeping a spreadsheet of match data) but I just queued into something that confuses me on how it was even able to pop. Details below:

• Full premade vs full solo players.
• Premade has decent comp.
• Solos (my team) have 2 mesmers and 2 thieves.
• 4v5, our team’s fifth never even loaded into the map.

Putting the 4v5 aside for the time being, why was a comp with 2 thieves and 2 mesmers even allowed to be put against a full premade? Ill provide a screenshot of the aftergame screen as soon as my stream catches up to it on the vod. Was just a bit upsetting. The worst part was everyone in the match unanimously agreed there was no point in even attempting the match. I ended up AFKing to grab a drink. :/

Blu can’t you spot how esports it is? Don’t worry i just went solo+random guys vs asdf full rooster

Working as intended i guess…got my 20 pnts and went afk telling them to go lord and end that nonsense asap

Justin ODell.9517:

Hey…. you had a 5% chance of winning. Don’t blame me if you couldn’t pull it off.

Any game where a team has a less than 30% chance of winning shouldn’t even be allowed to happen. I get that all of the other details of matchmaking are important, but match-ups like that are really the ones that result in the worst play experiences.

I literally just had one myself, so yeah, I feel you BLU.

I agree, MM shouldn’t allow matches where one of teams has so low chances of winning.

Justin ODell.9517:

BLUna.7928:

Game ended at approximately 9:18 PM Eastern, and was played on this account.

I will admit before going on that matchmaking has been better since the patch (been keeping a spreadsheet of match data) but I just queued into something that confuses me on how it was even able to pop. Details below:

• Full premade vs full solo players.
• Premade has decent comp.
• Solos (my team) have 2 mesmers and 2 thieves.
• 4v5, our team’s fifth never even loaded into the map.

Putting the 4v5 aside for the time being, why was a comp with 2 thieves and 2 mesmers even allowed to be put against a full premade? Ill provide a screenshot of the aftergame screen as soon as my stream catches up to it on the vod. Was just a bit upsetting. The worst part was everyone in the match unanimously agreed there was no point in even attempting the match. I ended up AFKing to grab a drink. :/

Hey…. you had a 5% chance of winning. Don’t blame me if you couldn’t pull it off.

In all seriousness, it probably happened due to limited availability at that end of the distribution.

As for the profession duplicates, that’s because I had to weaken that scoring because the profession dailies were stressing the system and causing bad matches when it came to MMR and party size.

Thanks for the speedy reply. I do have to agree somewhat with the other posts here. If my odds are less than 30% I would rather wait the extra time for a favorable matchup than play one I have very minimal chance to win, not sure how many in this thread agree however. Is there any thought of possibly adding a minimal percentage chance for matchups to pop?

This is also the reason why adding a specific class to the dailies is a bad idea. If you can make it random for each person, it is a great idea. The same 2 classes for everyone just leads to bad matches.

Justin ODell.9517:

I am tracking these sort of matches, and am working to figure out exactly what we can do to improve the situation w/o bloating queue times to absurd levels.

I’ve once (well, twice) suggested to allow winning team stay together for next match if they vote to do so (they could get temporary +value% MMR per win) so those teams which are doing well could be assigned to fight premades after certain winning streak boosting their MMR.

Also to encourage people to stay as winning ‘team’ you could give +additonal points for those ‘win streaks’ when PUG advances.

Justin ODell.9517:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Justin ODell.9517:

Hey…. you had a 5% chance of winning. Don’t blame me if you couldn’t pull it off.

Any game where a team has a less than 30% chance of winning shouldn’t even be allowed to happen. I get that all of the other details of matchmaking are important, but match-ups like that are really the ones that result in the worst play experiences.

I literally just had one myself, so yeah, I feel you BLU.

I also agree, but I also have to balance it with queue times. In all likelihood, the other team probably spent around 6-8 minutes in the queue before it would even begin to consider making a match like that.

I am tracking these sort of matches, and am working to figure out exactly what we can do to improve the situation w/o bloating queue times to absurd levels.

This calls for handicapping to make the match interesting. Start the score ticking at 300 for the team with a mere 5% chance of winning

The other team can boast if they still win.

Laserbolt.6731:

Justin ODell.9517:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Justin ODell.9517:

Hey…. you had a 5% chance of winning. Don’t blame me if you couldn’t pull it off.

Any game where a team has a less than 30% chance of winning shouldn’t even be allowed to happen. I get that all of the other details of matchmaking are important, but match-ups like that are really the ones that result in the worst play experiences.

I literally just had one myself, so yeah, I feel you BLU.

I also agree, but I also have to balance it with queue times. In all likelihood, the other team probably spent around 6-8 minutes in the queue before it would even begin to consider making a match like that.

I am tracking these sort of matches, and am working to figure out exactly what we can do to improve the situation w/o bloating queue times to absurd levels.

This calls for handicapping to make the match interesting. Start the score ticking at 300 for the team with a mere 5% chance of winning

The other team can boast if they still win.

This is one approach.

Its not like blowouts are fun for either side. At times you have both teams just standing around waiting for the ticks to reach 500, and/or possibly farming the loosing team for bonus kill points.

Justin ODell.9517:

As for the profession duplicates, that’s because I had to weaken that scoring because the profession dailies were stressing the system and causing bad matches when it came to MMR and party size.

If they are causing problems (which they DO) then remove profession dailies? They don’t offer much anyway.

You guys have to prevent profession stacking. If this is to be an esport then don’t allow 3 turrets engies in the same team.

A thief and mesmer cannot stealth in a capture points, an ele cannot mist form in it, etc, but an engi can place 6 turrets in a capture point and spam immobilize and knockdowns like there is no tomorrow. On top of that when you allow 3 engis or more of them in the same team GW2 PvP becomes completely broken. Literally everyone I played with that faced these conditions mentioned or agreed that it is a completely unfair advantage.

The same thing with the machinegun ranger, taking any non-bunker light armor class to 0% hp in 1or 2 seconds (with haste) unless he uses all his utility skills and heals. This just promotes frustration. This is a skill buff where you really dropped the ball and should have done it incrementally instead. Then place 3 of them in the same team… You got 15 seconds AoE chain immobs with sustained range damage greater than half a dozen backstab.

Wow, I had the same thing yday.
Full solo vs 2x pre teams.

1v2/3 constantly.
Downing not a problem, but stomping……………………..

On the other match.

Won 4v5.

Xillllix.3485:

You guys have to prevent profession stacking. If this is to be an esport then don’t allow 3 turrets engies in the same team.

They can’t prevent profession stacking while those annoying profession dailies exist.

Justin ODell.9517:

As for the profession duplicates, that’s because I had to weaken that scoring because the profession dailies were stressing the system and causing bad matches when it came to MMR and party size.

I am not a programmer, I don’t know the feasibility of this.

Would it be possible for the daily system to send a random pair of classes to each client? Therefore, the population spread among classes would not result in these horrid team comps? (I had 2 3-thief teams last night, I know this pain.)

i.e. – the daily system sends a 1 and 6 to client A, meaning it’d be, say, a warrior/mesmer daily. The same system, on the same day sends a 3, 5 to client B, giving them a thief/guardian daily.

Really, I love the class-specific wins, because it gets me to play all manner of different classes. I hate that it pretty much ruins team comps on the regular.

Morwath.9817:

I’ve once (well, twice) suggested to allow winning team stay together for next match if they vote to do so (they could get temporary +value% MMR per win) so those teams which are doing well could be assigned to fight premades after certain winning streak boosting their MMR.

Also to encourage people to stay as winning ‘team’ you could give +additonal points for those ‘win streaks’ when PUG advances.

I thought this was a really fun concept for Random Arena in gw1, and think it could have a place here. Good idea.

Alternatively make daily class tier (light/medium/heavy) wins instead of daily class wins. Creates more diversity and might be beneficial to the people that for some reason only have very few characters and refuse/don’t want to play any others.

Bukkebruse.2810:

Alternatively make daily class tier (light/medium/heavy) wins instead of daily class wins. Creates more diversity and might be beneficial to the people that for some reason only have very few characters and refuse/don’t want to play any others.

…..selling character slots is a tiny part of it as well.

Justin ODell.9517:

As for the profession duplicates, that’s because I had to weaken that scoring because the profession dailies were stressing the system and causing bad matches when it came to MMR and party size.

Limit dailies to unranked and practice mode only? – a kind of solution.

Justin ODell.9517:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Justin ODell.9517:

Hey…. you had a 5% chance of winning. Don’t blame me if you couldn’t pull it off.

Any game where a team has a less than 30% chance of winning shouldn’t even be allowed to happen. I get that all of the other details of matchmaking are important, but match-ups like that are really the ones that result in the worst play experiences.

I literally just had one myself, so yeah, I feel you BLU.

I also agree, but I also have to balance it with queue times. In all likelihood, the other team probably spent around 6-8 minutes in the queue before it would even begin to consider making a match like that.

I am tracking these sort of matches, and am working to figure out exactly what we can do to improve the situation w/o bloating queue times to absurd levels.

Justin those matches happened anyway. Especially at off-peak times.

I think the problem is leaderboards suck so nobody forms a pre-made. As a result those in pre-mades cant find good match-ups.

Justin ODell.9517:

I also agree, but I also have to balance it with queue times. In all likelihood, the other team probably spent around 6-8 minutes in the queue before it would even begin to consider making a match like that.

I am tracking these sort of matches, and am working to figure out exactly what we can do to improve the situation w/o bloating queue times to absurd levels.

It’ understandable that you’re worried about queue times, but I would encourage you and the team to consider the customer experience from a broader perspective. The guiding principle and purpose of the matchmaking system should not be to produce just any match, but an enjoyable one. What happened to BLU is far worse than not having a pop at all. Matches so colossally lopsided will frustrate even the staunchest fanboys and surely alienate casually inclined players.

Please institute 30% win chance as the lowest allowed limit, and if a suitable match has not been found in 10 minutes, have the UI generate a popup that informs the players that no suitable match was found at this time.

TL;DR – You guys are still stressing over queue times when you should be much more concerned over match quality.

i recall games where high MMR = longer queue always – sometimes 20, 30, 40 minutes or more depending how high your MMR is.

and in those games, being in queue for that long was a sort of bragging rights.

Solstice.1097:

i recall games where high MMR = longer queue always – sometimes 20, 30, 40 minutes or more depending how high your MMR is.

and in those games, being in queue for that long was a sort of bragging rights.

Gosh, if something like that happened in GW2, I’d be glad to be a noob!

well it was only the best of the best, “pro” players that would wait 30-40+ minutes.

because there was nobody good enough queueing to play against them, and that made perfect sense to people.

Justin ODell.9517:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Justin ODell.9517:

Hey…. you had a 5% chance of winning. Don’t blame me if you couldn’t pull it off.

Any game where a team has a less than 30% chance of winning shouldn’t even be allowed to happen. I get that all of the other details of matchmaking are important, but match-ups like that are really the ones that result in the worst play experiences.

I literally just had one myself, so yeah, I feel you BLU.

I also agree, but I also have to balance it with queue times. In all likelihood, the other team probably spent around 6-8 minutes in the queue before it would even begin to consider making a match like that.

I am tracking these sort of matches, and am working to figure out exactly what we can do to improve the situation w/o bloating queue times to absurd levels.

You could start by telling the team that hearts of the mist is boring and stale; queuing while in PvE whilst farming was a very much logical and fun system than the current. While I admit there is less 4v5s than before, solo queue and team queue were more enjoyable than the current state of PvP.

If you guys could find a way to keep players entertained while queuing like how it used to be, longer queue times wouldn’t be a big issue.

Morwath.9817:

Justin ODell.9517:

I am tracking these sort of matches, and am working to figure out exactly what we can do to improve the situation w/o bloating queue times to absurd levels.

I’ve once (well, twice) suggested to allow winning team stay together for next match if they vote to do so (they could get temporary +value% MMR per win) so those teams which are doing well could be assigned to fight premades after certain winning streak boosting their MMR.

Also to encourage people to stay as winning ‘team’ you could give +additonal points for those ‘win streaks’ when PUG advances.

logged in just to upvote this suggestion, because i really like it. it allows people that performed well to not have to rely on luck for another match, and hell, if they go on a particularly good winning streak, it could even encourage new teams forming up.

Perhaps removing profession dailies would be a good thing for the game over all – if its causing an issue with assigning groups.

Solstice.1097:

well it was only the best of the best, “pro” players that would wait 30-40+ minutes.

because there was nobody good enough queueing to play against them, and that made perfect sense to people.

yeah… league has always had really good matchmaking.

but people did complain about really really long queues. until pretty much everyone (else) everywhere was like shut up you will have a bad match if it isnt like that. took a while to get into their heads.

Yeah, class dailies are annoying. I liked the dailies the way they were before… Kill players, capture objectives, win matches, get rank points, etc.

I think class dailies are definitely a major contributor to the duplicate profession problem. I can’t count the number of times I’ve had 2+ of a daily profession in a given match, ranked or unranked.

I speak for myself here when I say that I’d prefer waiting through a 6-10 minute queue time if it meant I got a match-up where I had a better than 30% chance to win. Waiting a few minutes less for a total blowout is not fun for either team, and wastes time they could spend queuing for a hopefully better match-up.

As for the profession duplicates, that’s because I had to weaken that scoring because the profession dailies were stressing the system and causing bad matches when it came to MMR and party size.

A good reason to replace the profession dailies with something else \o/

Rising Dusk.2408:

Justin ODell.9517:

Hey…. you had a 5% chance of winning. Don’t blame me if you couldn’t pull it off.

Any game where a team has a less than 30% chance of winning shouldn’t even be allowed to happen. I get that all of the other details of matchmaking are important, but match-ups like that are really the ones that result in the worst play experiences.

I literally just had one myself, so yeah, I feel you BLU.

^

Please remove proffession dailes , the intent was good – but the result are very negative and outweight any reason.

Think the “random class for each person” instead of whole game ruining whole day idea was the best. Easy fix instead of telling boss something failed and needed to be removed.

I really like the idea of keeping the solo team together after a win and maybe only placing those teams against premades after a few wins. You could always drop out if you get paired with a snotty asuran engineer. :-) No harm, no foul. This would give premades more of a challenge as well. I am sure they would like that.

well when a solo team does well, its completely appropriate to say, “hey guys want to queue as a team for next match?”

Just had a match which had 4 of my teammates securing the home node from beginning and zerging all over. These people clearly never played pvp yet I am teamed up with them for whatever reason, even though I have decent win/loss ratio. This matchmaking system is ridiculous

Wait…. so if he had a 5% chance of winning, did he have to score 200 points to not lose a point?

If yes, that is very broken.

I don’t mind longer queue times but 40min that’s crazy! I’m not gonna afk in the mists so long for a “decent” matchup.
As for profession stacking algorithm it was a dumb idea and still is. In this current meta ele and engi is stackable, thief and mes are not.

robertul.3679:

I don’t mind longer queue times but 40min that’s crazy! I’m not gonna afk in the mists so long for a “decent” matchup.
As for profession stacking algorithm it was a dumb idea and still is. In this current meta ele and engi is stackable, thief and mes are not.

Profession stacking algorithm can’t work while they have the new profession dailies active, if they remove them completely maybe the stacking algorithm would finally work.

balance queue time and break the game fair,not fun.

how about if you are in Q longer than 10min and the system cant find a match for your party with less than 80% chance of your premade winning it just gives you the win. It would save time and frustration.

Esports maaaan LOL

Today, someone created an engie for the very first time and thought it was a great class so far and that he could get used to it. After spending 10 min on his new engie going through the initial PVE objective, he went to hotm and queued……Compete – ended up in my team.

He’s got dailies to accomplish, who cares about those competitive pvp scrubs anyways.