Guild Wars 2

Upon the guildwars 2 forum opening I came to check out the pvp subforum in hopes of seeing some cool stuff being posted namely strategies and the like. Instead I was faced with incessant crying for nerfs every which way and general complaints about the state of pvp. Sure these are things you’d see on any pvp forums, but as the days pass the magnitude of it has become out of hand. Its becoming a cesspool of crying and whining.

Nerfs

Everyone is crying to nerf every other class. I have yet to see a thread that simply asks for ways to counter another build or profession. Actually I may have but it was immediately drowned out by another 10 threads about nerfing another class. And before you mention heartseeker nerf, that was done because it was obnoxious. It wasnt even so much overpowered as it was just obnoxious, players using it to to cross maps as a gap closers infact just using it repeatedly. Anet tried to guide players into realizing theres more to thieves than spamming one button; by design it was meant to be a finisher they emphasized that by reducing the damage it does to higher hp targets. There are too many complaints about classes being underpowred or overpowered, when infact they should be rated on their ease of use and learning curve. Now im not saying some classes dont need a few tweaks such as necros (considering tons of their traits and skills dont work properly), but it doesnt mean certain professions suck.

I see too many players dominate on various professions. So if they’re doing well on these classses what are they doing that others cant? Well for starters dont rely on cookie cutter guides and premade builds. This teaches you nothing. Instead explore and try to see why skills work the way they do. Theres tons more things you can do but I think everyone can improve.

Pvp ladders and other goodies

GIVE THEM MORE TIME. Put down your pitchforks. They have responded many times already yet many act as if theyve kept quiet on the issue. Instead of yelling at them maybe some folks should be busy theorycrafting and better understanding the game. I can tell quite a few people dont really understand most classes and are still crying for nerfs. Take a walk in each professions shoes and atleast grasp a basic understanding of everything.

It isnt about counter play. For those of us who play purely SPvP/TPvP there is only one conclusion: Thief/Mesmer/Guardian are simply stronger than the rest of the classes. Plain and simple. Can other classes stomp them? sure. But that doesn’t take away from the FACT that they outperform the other classes. Thief DPS > any other class , Guardian defensive capabilities > any other class and Mesmer Utility > any other class.

It isnt a question of “this class kills me, nerf them” it is a question of “if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential”

Lewk.8359:

It isnt about counter play. For those of us who play purely SPvP/TPvP there is only one conclusion: Thief/Mesmer/Guardian are simply stronger than the rest of the classes. Plain and simple. Can other classes stomp them? sure. But that doesn’t take away from the FACT that they outperform the other classes. Thief DPS > any other class , Guardian defensive capabilities > any other class and Mesmer Utility > any other class.

It isnt a question of “this class kills me, nerf them” it is a question of “if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential”

This. This. This.

Just because we “can” counter them, doesn’t mean that they aren’t a much stronger profession.

Lewk.8359:

if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential"

Based on what exactly?

Lewk.8359:

It isnt about counter play. For those of us who play purely SPvP/TPvP there is only one conclusion: Thief/Mesmer/Guardian are simply stronger than the rest of the classes. Plain and simple. Can other classes stomp them? sure. But that doesn’t take away from the FACT that they outperform the other classes. Thief DPS > any other class , Guardian defensive capabilities > any other class and Mesmer Utility > any other class.

It isnt a question of “this class kills me, nerf them” it is a question of “if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential”

I can agree with you though at the same time I dont believe its that cut and dry. Even looking at utility mesmers have some great tools (timewarp, null field, illusion of life), however its utility cant just be said as the best , as necros offer great utility though is underplayed currently due to bug traits and skills. Or guardian and engineer can both be bunkers however engineers can offer more damage/condition where as guardians can offer more support/healing/boons.

I’m sure people will disagree with me and are blinded by the mentality that there has to be a best. However as Tournies become more prevalent from ladders and paid tournies. Different team comps and strategies will be brought to light. Similar to League of legends and HoN. Teams will only be able to advance by coming up with new tactics, team compositions, and such.

I had to edit this in, but I’m a bit distraught at the fact that in so many games, time and time again, players refuse to see the intricacies the developers have put into each class and the mechanics behind everything. I honestly can’t wait to see some of the strategies and profession synergy teams will come up with.

I tried making a thread dedicated to strategies and community input on strategies but it sunk to the bottom of the endless pit of nerf threads

uMad.5719:

Lewk.8359:

It isnt about counter play. For those of us who play purely SPvP/TPvP there is only one conclusion: Thief/Mesmer/Guardian are simply stronger than the rest of the classes. Plain and simple. Can other classes stomp them? sure. But that doesn’t take away from the FACT that they outperform the other classes. Thief DPS > any other class , Guardian defensive capabilities > any other class and Mesmer Utility > any other class.

It isnt a question of “this class kills me, nerf them” it is a question of “if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential”

I can agree with you though at the same time I dont believe its that cut and dry. Even looking at utility mesmers have some great tools (timewarp, null field, illusion of life), however its utility cant just be said as the best , as necros offer great utility though is underplayed currently due to bug traits and skills. Or guardian and engineer can both be bunkers however engineers can offer more damage/condition where as guardians can offer more support/healing/boons.

I’m sure people will disagree with me and are blinded by the mentality that there has to be a best. However as Tournies become more prevalent from ladders and paid tournies. Different team comps and strategies will be brought to light. Similar to League of legends and HoN. Teams will only be able to advance by coming up with new tactics, team compositions, and such.

I had to edit this in, but I’m a bit distraught at the fact that in so many games, time and time again, players refuse to see the intricacies the developers have put into each class and the mechanics behind everything. I honestly can’t wait to see some of the strategies and profession synergy teams will come up with.

After running into several all guardian teams, I’d like to see those intricacies as well. I’m just afraid we won’t without better balance and carving some stronger weaknesses into some of these classes with far too big toolboxes of too powerful tools atm.

Vlaid.5790:

uMad.5719:

Lewk.8359:

It isnt about counter play. For those of us who play purely SPvP/TPvP there is only one conclusion: Thief/Mesmer/Guardian are simply stronger than the rest of the classes. Plain and simple. Can other classes stomp them? sure. But that doesn’t take away from the FACT that they outperform the other classes. Thief DPS > any other class , Guardian defensive capabilities > any other class and Mesmer Utility > any other class.

It isnt a question of “this class kills me, nerf them” it is a question of “if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential”

I can agree with you though at the same time I dont believe its that cut and dry. Even looking at utility mesmers have some great tools (timewarp, null field, illusion of life), however its utility cant just be said as the best , as necros offer great utility though is underplayed currently due to bug traits and skills. Or guardian and engineer can both be bunkers however engineers can offer more damage/condition where as guardians can offer more support/healing/boons.

I’m sure people will disagree with me and are blinded by the mentality that there has to be a best. However as Tournies become more prevalent from ladders and paid tournies. Different team comps and strategies will be brought to light. Similar to League of legends and HoN. Teams will only be able to advance by coming up with new tactics, team compositions, and such.

I had to edit this in, but I’m a bit distraught at the fact that in so many games, time and time again, players refuse to see the intricacies the developers have put into each class and the mechanics behind everything. I honestly can’t wait to see some of the strategies and profession synergy teams will come up with.

After running into several all guardian teams, I’d like to see those intricacies as well. I’m just afraid we won’t without better balance and carving some stronger weaknesses into some of these classes with far too big toolboxes of too powerful tools atm.

There is a reason why you’re given 5 minutes and the ability to leave for the mist and change characters. Its to allow quick change of build/strategy and team comps. Cheese tactics such as these wont be as effective once teams utilize the time given to change and accomadate for this. Conditions do well against guardian since their condition removals are on fairly long cooldowns, and conditions bypass toughness. Once necros skills and traits are fixed youll be seeing necros as a part of a counter strategty to multiple guardians.

I fail to see how this isn’t OP.

Proving the point again, blah blah glass cannon, terrible build, no hp, no toughness, should be able tokittenthem, blah blah crap.

Getting to the point, their glass cannon builds are MUCH more effective than any other glass cannon builds. ANY build they run will be much more effective than ANY other class’s build.

I DON’T expect all Classes to be totally equal, I wouldn’t trade my Engineer for anything. but even (some) Thieves I know admitted, the Heart Seeker spam was just ridiculous, & despite all the ‘lrn2plai/dodge moar’ BS, yes, it needed a nerf. All the fail Thieves QQ’d & cried, while the rest just replaced it with Pistol Whip spam, & now (NOT all but the fail) Thieves are hoping that won’t get nerfed too.

Someone else’s opinion may differ, but IMO, NO skill should be anyone’s ENTIRE arsenal. If you’re a Warrior & you don’t/won’t attack unless 100 Blades is up, it’s ALL you use, & you can just totally own playing like that. there’s something very very wrong with that skill & it needs to be looked at. My point is, all NERFZ IT!!1!!! threads aren’t without merit.

Now let the rationalization begin.

Oh, & armor pierce also RIPS through Guardians. I know every Class doesn’t have that in their arsenal, but they DO have counters.

uMad.5719:

Vlaid.5790:

uMad.5719:

Lewk.8359:

It isnt about counter play. For those of us who play purely SPvP/TPvP there is only one conclusion: Thief/Mesmer/Guardian are simply stronger than the rest of the classes. Plain and simple. Can other classes stomp them? sure. But that doesn’t take away from the FACT that they outperform the other classes. Thief DPS > any other class , Guardian defensive capabilities > any other class and Mesmer Utility > any other class.

It isnt a question of “this class kills me, nerf them” it is a question of “if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential”

I can agree with you though at the same time I dont believe its that cut and dry. Even looking at utility mesmers have some great tools (timewarp, null field, illusion of life), however its utility cant just be said as the best , as necros offer great utility though is underplayed currently due to bug traits and skills. Or guardian and engineer can both be bunkers however engineers can offer more damage/condition where as guardians can offer more support/healing/boons.

I’m sure people will disagree with me and are blinded by the mentality that there has to be a best. However as Tournies become more prevalent from ladders and paid tournies. Different team comps and strategies will be brought to light. Similar to League of legends and HoN. Teams will only be able to advance by coming up with new tactics, team compositions, and such.

I had to edit this in, but I’m a bit distraught at the fact that in so many games, time and time again, players refuse to see the intricacies the developers have put into each class and the mechanics behind everything. I honestly can’t wait to see some of the strategies and profession synergy teams will come up with.

After running into several all guardian teams, I’d like to see those intricacies as well. I’m just afraid we won’t without better balance and carving some stronger weaknesses into some of these classes with far too big toolboxes of too powerful tools atm.

There is a reason why you’re given 5 minutes and the ability to leave for the mist and change characters. Its to allow quick change of build/strategy and team comps. Cheese tactics such as these wont be as effective once teams utilize the time given to change and accomadate for this. Conditions do well against guardian since their condition removals are on fairly long cooldowns, and conditions bypass toughness. Once necros skills and traits are fixed youll be seeing necros as a part of a counter strategty to multiple guardians.

So you swap to a condition team, and they swap to a condition removal team?

I’d rather just see professions balanced and remove the ability to change your team/builds midway. Feels a bit silly to me.

Vlaid.5790:

So you swap to a condition team, and they swap to a condition removal team?

I’d rather just see professions balanced and remove the ability to change your team/builds midway. Feels a bit silly to me.

Balance is all well and good, but I think the build/prof swapping between rounds to be an excellent Idea from an esports perspective. Great from a build-counter/strategy/mindgame perspective.

Edit: LoL champ select anyone?

Duckzor.4327:

I fail to see how this isn’t OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

Proving the point again, blah blah glass cannon, terrible build, no hp, no toughness, should be able tokittenthem, blah blah crap.

Getting to the point, their glass cannon builds are MUCH more effective than any other glass cannon builds. ANY build they run will be much more effective than ANY other class’s build.

I’m sorry but a montage of a glass cannon DPS thief gibbing and picking off other low armor players in hot join, doesnt really do it for me. While The damage is impressive if anything so much as looks at him hell die. Not only that each time he popped several high cooldown skills to get the skills. Id rather see a footage from some tourny gameplay from start to finish.

Vlaid.5790:

uMad.5719:

Vlaid.5790:

uMad.5719:

Lewk.8359:

It isnt about counter play. For those of us who play purely SPvP/TPvP there is only one conclusion: Thief/Mesmer/Guardian are simply stronger than the rest of the classes. Plain and simple. Can other classes stomp them? sure. But that doesn’t take away from the FACT that they outperform the other classes. Thief DPS > any other class , Guardian defensive capabilities > any other class and Mesmer Utility > any other class.

It isnt a question of “this class kills me, nerf them” it is a question of “if i want to reach my highest potential i currently MUST play Thief/Mesmer/Guardian in order to achieve that potential”

I can agree with you though at the same time I dont believe its that cut and dry. Even looking at utility mesmers have some great tools (timewarp, null field, illusion of life), however its utility cant just be said as the best , as necros offer great utility though is underplayed currently due to bug traits and skills. Or guardian and engineer can both be bunkers however engineers can offer more damage/condition where as guardians can offer more support/healing/boons.

I’m sure people will disagree with me and are blinded by the mentality that there has to be a best. However as Tournies become more prevalent from ladders and paid tournies. Different team comps and strategies will be brought to light. Similar to League of legends and HoN. Teams will only be able to advance by coming up with new tactics, team compositions, and such.

I had to edit this in, but I’m a bit distraught at the fact that in so many games, time and time again, players refuse to see the intricacies the developers have put into each class and the mechanics behind everything. I honestly can’t wait to see some of the strategies and profession synergy teams will come up with.

After running into several all guardian teams, I’d like to see those intricacies as well. I’m just afraid we won’t without better balance and carving some stronger weaknesses into some of these classes with far too big toolboxes of too powerful tools atm.

There is a reason why you’re given 5 minutes and the ability to leave for the mist and change characters. Its to allow quick change of build/strategy and team comps. Cheese tactics such as these wont be as effective once teams utilize the time given to change and accomadate for this. Conditions do well against guardian since their condition removals are on fairly long cooldowns, and conditions bypass toughness. Once necros skills and traits are fixed youll be seeing necros as a part of a counter strategty to multiple guardians.

So you swap to a condition team, and they swap to a condition removal team?

I’d rather just see professions balanced and remove the ability to change your team/builds midway. Feels a bit silly to me.

It wont be changed unless there is and option when private servers are released. Also I just noted that their condition removals are on 60s+ cooldowns 48 if specced. While necros can quickly reapply conditions even after.

Yes, thieves atm has the most burst and damage. Warriors falls only a bit below, but are much more tankier. Eles go third, but are much more versatile.
Guardians defensive capabilities falls behind warriors, but they got more reliable point control. Engis has almost the same point control as guardians and usually lack some of defense for more hurt.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class at the moment, but low and unreliable damage for 4v4, 5v5 battles compared to other classes. Second comes thief and ranger – thieves usually pwnd by tankier classes, which rangers own – and vice versa with the glass cannons.

Theres pros and cons for everyone, and not a single overpowered class at the moment. Just necro needs a bit boost. And also – l2p.

MaxChaos.3825:

Yes, thieves atm has the most burst and damage. Warriors falls only a bit below, but are much more tankier. Eles go third, but are much more versatile.

To get third, eles go with 12k health, playing a zero thoughness and vitality melee D/D spec? They are the joke of this game, don’t bother mention them. Whilst being melee, they are squishier than thief while bringing half of the raw, brutal effectiveness.

I was thinking more S/D with arcane blast & wave. And it does come 3rd. Engi comes 4th along with shatter mesmer. The rest got no real “burst”.