Guild Wars 2

Just finished 2 terrible matches of tpvp with a decent group, before we had won a decent amount of games. And we did well against a lot of different team-comps. Then we verse an entire team consisting of minion-mancers and get demolished into the ground. I asked why their team was full MM, they said “Because no one can find a counter to it, it’s broken” And then we got to verse them again (thanks matchmaker) and lost even harder. They barely used any skills, and just spammed their auto attack. And then proceeded to taunt us :/ My question is how in the hell do you counter this? Or even prepare for something like this in a tpvp arena?

As a novice PvP necromancer, I can tell you when I use minions, I suck against AoE damage and 3+ people. But that might just be me.

With one MM, I bet. But now, if they all play MM, that’s probably another story. The issue is that with 5 minions per player, you won’t be able to destroy them with AoEs since AoE will only hit 5 characters at a given time.

An engineer can deal with a MM necro but again during a team fight involving several MM necros, I have no clue how you can win. Their weakness is AoE, and that weakness is probably negated when you stack several MM on top of each other.

Maybe go with 5 hambows. Trolololo.

General facts about MM:
- They often have no CC breaks.
- Useless without pets, so weak to AOE.
- No cleave, thus tend to avoid large team fights. (Plus AOE weakness, and minions suck up useful buffs and cap out the aoe buff cap, hurting the team)
- Most of their CC is the problem most players have, making it hard to keep on the move. Run Condi clears and watch for immobilizes.
- Try not to let yourself get overwhelmed and turn off minion nameplates.
- Realize they’re a build based on being good for 1v1, its ALL they have going for them in a realistic setting. If you’re build around team play primarily, understand they will likely have an edge on you and this is normal AND intended…
- Terrain can easily be used to mess with poor AI, if you kite them up a ramp and jump down the MM will be semi-defenseless.
- You can almost guarantee hits on an MM. Haunt has a blind, but other than that they’re pretty much limited to 2 dodges. They have no evade skills, no stability, no protection, no CC breaks, so just use your abilities wisely and know that if you’re up on them and they have dodge rolled recently, you’re likely to land anything you want on them.
- Because of the above, they’re bad at raising allies.

Hope this helps!

Edit: On team plays, not sure what to say. Most times people do fine against full teams of MM by exploiting their weaknesses… MM just got nerfed, not buffed so they should be less potent as pre-patch. Make a better working comp if you’re having serious issues? Carry some stability and AOE condies and they’ll die. Standard Gaurdian/Zerker Ele/Hambow/Thief(Burst one down), Condi Necro/Engi teams should really have no issue…

Mimir.4690:

As a novice PvP necromancer, I can tell you when I use minions, I suck against AoE damage and 3+ people. But that might just be me.

Well AoE did little to diminish the minions, and even if we killed 1 or 2, they just sent one of their other friends to come in and attack me. An endless supply at minions :/

I use condi warrior and I longbow burn the minions, pop stances to get a good Flurry on the minions (all of them when possible), and then just run around for a minute and they’re all dead. Then fighting a MM necro with no minions is like fighting a wet paper bag.

Abe Kleine.3568:

Mimir.4690:

As a novice PvP necromancer, I can tell you when I use minions, I suck against AoE damage and 3+ people. But that might just be me.

Well AoE did little to diminish the minions, and even if we killed 1 or 2, they just sent one of their other friends to come in and attack me. An endless supply at minions :/

They had support, most people don’t win 1v2 anyways, let alone 1v2 against 2 1v1 builds. Call for your team mates and run a comp that has more team-play to it. MM whether alone or in a group are basically the same, they do nothing to help one another other than clutter.

On that note, a 2 per class per team wouldn’t be the worst thing ever to happen to the game. 5 of anything can be stupid. 5 decap engies, 5 hambow, 5 thieves (while not as good still annoying), 5 Mesmer, you name it, 5 of anything is just lame.

I wished, ANet would reintroduce tab targeting only for players.
It sucks, that it targets also this whole NPC crap

If you detarget, your first tab will target players. It’s workable. If you mess up (which you already can’t blame others for) by tabbing too many times, deselect and re-tab.

I do wish, however, that AOEs and buffs preferred human targets > minions first. /support /sympathize.

I’ve noted MM’s as being quite overpowered so far. I thought this spec was getting nerfed a bit this patch but it seems stronger than ever. This needs addressed right away.

Just slot in a mesmer with Moa. Problem solved!

MM sucks balls now! peeps still dont know how to kill them? i kite them with my ele while i aoe their minions lol

Hype.8032:

I’ve noted MM’s as being quite overpowered so far. I thought this spec was getting nerfed a bit this patch but it seems stronger than ever. This needs addressed right away.

They’re only OP to thieves because thieves relied on Lyssa to beat them before. Learn to utilize your abilities better and you’ll figure it out again. MM did get nerfed, thief just have to rely less on a rune set to win. Certain thief builds to great against MM still, others not so much. Can’t expect to win every battle.

Ok, I play GS warrior, not going to hambow.

I didn’t fight many MM necros actually, but from what I got while in a 1v1 I have to keep this in mind

A: If I try to pressure them in melee with their minions up, I’ll get outlasted.

B: If I try to kill the minions in melee, I’ll get outlasted.

What seems to work is to either kite the minions and kill them (question: do minions gay necro’s toughness?) or try to use hit and run techniques, that work when you are losing health faster than the enemy to gain time.

Example: get close to the enemy and whirlwind through them, then gain distance and repeat, and whittle them with the longbow.

But if I go like this, I will lose a notable amount of time, that just isn’t worth it. Am I right?

Ask Vassangel how to handle MM with GS. He does just fine. Amazing warrior.

He often players GS/LB, but has done well with other builds too. Remember, MMs are very weak against CC so Skullcrack GS builds usually do well too +/- some leverage, don’t expect to win every fight, obviously… MM are still built around 1v1, that’s what they’re there for. Remember, where you’re often good in 1v1 AND teams, MM don’t quite have that luxury. (Nor mobility!)

You can’t have everything. If MM suddenly became weak in 1v1 it would serve 0 purpose in the ENTIRE game, and for people who support that notion A.) don’t care about actual game balance, and B.) have no idea what makes MM fun and interesting in the first place and are likely nubs who cry about anything that beat them.

There are ways to beat them, and there are options, but remember their WHOLE game is around 1v1 for side-points. Learn to deal with it or just rush them, they’re not very great against multiple targets because they don’t have any cleave and can’t secure stomps very well at all.

GS on warrior does a lot of cleave. If you pop endure pain at a good time and place, you can just stand and HB down all of the minions in a single go.

ronpierce.2760:

Ask Vassangel how to handle MM with GS. He does just fine. Amazing warrior.

He often players GS/LB, but has done well with other builds too. Remember, MMs are very weak against CC so Skullcrack GS builds usually do well too +/- some leverage, don’t expect to win every fight, obviously… MM are still built around 1v1, that’s what they’re there for. Remember, where you’re often good in 1v1 AND teams, MM don’t quite have that luxury. (Nor mobility!)

You can’t have everything. If MM suddenly became weak in 1v1 it would serve 0 purpose in the ENTIRE game, and for people who support that notion A.) don’t care about actual game balance, and B.) have no idea what makes MM fun and interesting in the first place and are likely nubs who cry about anything that beat them.

There are ways to beat them, and there are options, but remember their WHOLE game is around 1v1 for side-points. Learn to deal with it or just rush them, they’re not very great against multiple targets because they don’t have any cleave and can’t secure stomps very well at all.

Ok, thanks, I’m playing GS/LB, but maybe the build isn’t cut for the job.

I wasn’t crying, I wanted to know if I was doing something wrong, and how could I improve. I understand there’s something some classes cannot do.

I might actually go back to Skullcrack/GS, maybe it’s time I let the longbow go.

there is a counter get a full team of mesmers with moa …pof… no more minions on the map
jk its silly that going full team of ai can be successful just goes to show at what lvl this game is.

While I fully support MM, I love it and find it to be a very interesting play style (Playing a controller to support the pets) I really hate full MM teams, so sympathy there. Then again, like I said. I hate MANY 5-X teams. WTB 2 max per class.

EverythingEnds.4261:

I wished, ANet would reintroduce tab targeting only for players.
It sucks, that it targets also this whole NPC crap

Completely agree,remove minions and pets from the target rotation,Focus on Players Only please…Fix that bullcrap already.

I think you want some staff eles and nades engies to wreck these guy’s faces. Try heavy aoe’s next time.

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Just slot in a mesmer with Moa. Problem solved!

This! Though some people and I found a few alternatives…

Venus In Furs.9756:

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Just slot in a mesmer with Moa. Problem solved!

This! Though some people and I found a few alternatives…

Oh, now I know what they mean when they say “Just AoE them down”.

Then I’ll call the right guy for the job next time I’ll have to deal with a MM necro.

Venus In Furs.9756:

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Just slot in a mesmer with Moa. Problem solved!

This! Though some people and I found a few alternatives…

Holy crap! Well sadly we didn’t have an AoE heavy class running with us, I’ll make sure to have one on the team now and then just in case.

redslion.9675:

Venus In Furs.9756:

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Just slot in a mesmer with Moa. Problem solved!

This! Though some people and I found a few alternatives…

Oh, now I know what they mean when they say “Just AoE them down”.

Then I’ll call the right guy for the job next time I’ll have to deal with a MM necro.

Well dealing with 1 MM wasn’t the issue here, I could just banish him and keep him off point (my job) since they have zero stability. Then wait for friends to finish up fighting to come and pick him off. The issue was that since everyone was MM my teammates were dying instead of killing because of super minion blob. So then home would get swarmed into oblivion.

And thanks to everyone for giving actual tips instead of—→ “this guy QQ over MM”
The best way to fight these single profession comp teams is to talk about them and learn from others

You need to play the mobilty game with good rotations, you sad youre with a group so i hope youre all on ts chat.

1) playing sides is usualy better, they slower at runing through whole map, +theyll usualy keep 1 afk on mid

2) go for trebuchet and other objectiv. again theyre slow so whenever they ned to run theyre losing. only diference is here send a warior to their treb

3) go 2v1 on a necro, as hell die faster than they can win a 3v4.

4) if youre losing a teamfight, 2-3-4 of you should abandon it and rush other point, leaving 1 to die and waste as much time as possible (plague necro) on a 1v3 decaped point

5) Thief. should be watching and counting players&postions, calling the next move. Be aside from teamfight, only going in for the -50% kill . should spam steal fear on CD. Also only go for decaps, let them waste time walking back. Remember holding 2-1 or 1-0 nodes is same advantage

6) dont all stand on point, kite the minions or youll die. and even if killthe minions youll die from posion explosions.

7) Rezz/stomp need to work. nuff said, get some stabilty and be coordinated. good luck

Honestly, with engi, staff ele and condi necro running rampid, MM is kind of hurting in tpvp. Seems like our weakness of Aoe has been amplified.

Weird. I fought an organized MM guild team twice in a row. My pug team destroyed them both times.

Power Longbow Ranger is actually a pretty good counter to a lot of condition/AoE spam classes like necro that are becoming popular.

Since it’s a ranged build that stands offpoint, you generally want to stick with (tanky) allies who will contest the point for you. While they do this, you can melt through enemies quickly and if an ally goes down, you have wolf fear and Point Blank shot to counter stomps (at least the ones without stability, lol).

Power rangers generally have been in a weak spot, but the buff to pet AI and the addition of Survival of the Fittest, the profession seems to have some good potential in sPvP atm. Here’s the build I’ve found success with so far: http://intothemists.com/guides/3523-sotf_power_ranger

However, if MM ends up becoming really big, it may be worth working Piercing Arrows in.

MM stands for minion master.

Anyway just bring moa morph or heavy aoe. Engis and eles should do the job.

AOE them since they aren’t great without their minions. Kite, because minion AI is still bad, and CC the necro, because they are still the biggest source of damage and likely have no way of dealing with it. Also dodge the golem charge.

Been eating this build up with my condimancer since I started tpvp a few days ago.

Roe.3679:

AOE them since they aren’t great without their minions. Kite, because minion AI is still bad, and CC the necro, because they are still the biggest source of damage and likely have no way of dealing with it. Also dodge the golem charge.

Been eating this build up with my condimancer since I started tpvp a few days ago.

I’ve seen them breaking out of immob pretty easy, though.

redslion.9675:

Roe.3679:

AOE them since they aren’t great without their minions. Kite, because minion AI is still bad, and CC the necro, because they are still the biggest source of damage and likely have no way of dealing with it. Also dodge the golem charge.

Been eating this build up with my condimancer since I started tpvp a few days ago.

I’ve seen them breaking out of immob pretty easy, though.

They will still have the condition control that most necromancer a have, so that is true. But they are likely even more weak to CC than a normal necro, which is pretty weak to CC.

Most MMs I see take some of the weaker minions, probably just because they don’t realize how bad they are. If you see a shadow fiend, and/or the little scorpion one whose name escapes me, that necro is gimping themselves, and I see those all the time.

AOE, kiting, and CC are your friends. Focus the necro with your bigger hits. They really can’t run or anything if you get the upper hand. For classes without the AOE specifically I can see them being a problem, but otherwise, as a necro main whose never been MM, it’s a fotm build to me, with fotm players.

Being dead honest, with the Aoe power atm, MM is nearly useless. Just run a few Aoe in your comp like you naturally should at this point and you will have no issue. A staff ele can kill people on point in no time lol…

Beorn Saxon.4762:

Weird. I fought an organized MM guild team twice in a row. My pug team destroyed them both times.

if its a guild team then its probably:

-1 necro main
- 1-2 necro alts
- 2-3 first time necros

Just saying..

Mimir.4690:

As a novice PvP necromancer, I can tell you when I use minions, I suck against AoE damage and 3+ people. But that might just be me.

I love how ppl find this normal they can bunk 2-3 ppl while having dps aswel.

one solution would be to restrict it so professions are unique in teams, aka- only one of each allowed like mobas do. But that will never happen.

I’d say 2, not 1, but yeah some sort of restrictions should happen.