Guild Wars 2

I’m making this post in order to carify the situation of DHs in the current meta game and how to avoid them/how to counter them.

Before we begin we need to take a look at the notes from balance patch. The most important things that pop up are:

-Traps didn’t get buffed
-Longbow didn’t get buffed, it requires more skill now with #3 with knockback.
-HP pool didn’t get buffed
-Symbols were added to scepter 2 and sword 2
-Shield of courage can’t be interrupted (if traited)
-Wings always heal a minimum of 2 conditions (+3 if traited)

Most complains I’ve seen are focused on the traps. But don’t you find it weird that traps are the same as previous season yet previous season no one complained about traps? What changed?
The answer is nothing. Traps are the same, deal the same damage. The problem is that due to the abundance of ppl playing DH, unaware people who get 1 shot by traps increased. I know they can get a bit tedious in teamfights if a team manages to pop 2 sets of traps (let’s say Test of Faith and Proccesion of Blades (ToF and PoB from now onwards)), yet last season some teams did that yet they acomplished nothing.

What’s wrong then? Why all the complains?
Ppl are arguiing now that the DH are unbeatable now. We need to analyze this statement and I’m going to make some comparisons with warrior from Season 3 (S3 from now onwards).
What changed?
-Blocking time remained the same
-Healings remained the same
-Slug movement remained the same
-Condi cleanse increased: Now DHs are able to cleanse 2 condis with wings of resolve. This means that DHs can relieve a lot more pressure than they could before. If we pop Wings + Smite conditions we can get rid of 4 conditions at once (2 more if we pop our healing trap). This heavily increased our survival in the heavy condition environment that was S3. What else? Now we can’t get our main shield/stunbreaker interrupted which is, imho, logic.
-Overall damage increased due to symbols: The adition of symbols to sword and scepter allowed DHs to actually stand their ground when fighting a point. The ability to permanently pop symbols if you manage to work the rotations properly allowed DHs to stand in the middle of a point while fending attackers. This can be specially nasty against low armor enemies.

So what do we have now… NONE of the skills received a %dmg increase. It’s just that sword went from having no useful skills to have 3 viable skills (symbol, zealot and autoattack (AA from now on)). Scepter went from being complete trash to being somewhat viable due to the increase in AA projectile speed and the placement of a symbol.

The problem now lies in the fact that thanks to symbol uptime + traps uptime the DHs are able to contest a point while deploying overtime AoE attacks. However none of that skills per se are able to deal sufficient damage alone for them being extremely easy to dodge. If they pop everything at once, stand aside.. then contest again and fight an oponent with all their skills on cooldown
When I mentioned that I was going to make comparisons with warrior from S3 I meant to say that a class that was trash tier received a change in its mechanics. Warriors received a great deffensive and offensive upgrade (they were later nerfed though). DHs in this season received only an offensive upgrade since the condi cleanse doesn’t grant increased healing nor can it be the key skill in determining wether a fight is a win or lose (generaly speaking. In highers levels of pvp it will be).

How to handle DHs:
You need to analyse a bit what your opponent is using before you engage in a fight.
Given the sluggish movement of guardians you know for sure they will have Judge’s Intervention. That leaves 2 utilities. One of them for sure is going to be ToF. 1 Reamining now: 2 possible alternatives for the last utilities which can be either Smite Conditions or PoB.
If you see them popping PoB you can infer that their condi cleanse will be subpar so you can condi focus on them. If they don’t have PoB you now know that their “cap” pressure is going to be lower yet their condi cleanse higher.
Advice Here: If they pop ToF on your head, stand iddle in the center of the trap. The damage it does overtime is irrisory

So now what’s the situation: either a big trapper or a a decent condi cleanser.
How do you avoid them?
Keep in mind that the guardian is by far the slowest class in the game and in the curreny meta has only 2 gap closers (sword 2 and Judge’s Intervention). If you remember S3 guardians were meat for ranged attacks because they couldn’t sustain permanent ranged pressure.
As DHs sustain didn’t change they are still vulnerable to that. So a word of advice. If you see there are several DH on a team don’t try to blindly enter the fray as you will get trapped x2 or x3 + symbols and yes, you will get damaged.
If you’re fighting 1 on 1 against a DH but you’re a Revenant, Druid, Engi or p/p Thief you already won (on equal skill level and map awareness). There’s no need advice. For the rest of the classes keep in mind that even though scepter has it’s AA speed increased it can still be dodged by walking sideways.
The key to handling DHs is kiting them. THEY ARE SLUGS they won’t chase you. The healing trap has a downside. It only heals a lot if you step on it. DHs depend on the enemy to heal. Force them to pop their heal traps on a place where you will never walk again while maintaining ranged pressure and the DH will fall.

In group fights the dynamic should still be the same. Only step inside the cap which is usually bigger than the trap radius to avoid the enemy capping. Bear in mind that Renewed Focus doesn’t contribute to point capping thus relieving your capping pressure.

Regarding DHs shield of courage
This skill offers a 5sec frontal block. This doesn’t mean by any chance that DHs become invulnerable as they are able to be attacked from the rear. The key again is to force DHs to move.
As in any fight you aim to hit to your opponents’ weak points.
If you complain about DHs frontal blocks you have to complain of warriors endure pain, Reves glint heal, Druids 0 damage signet, Thieves block, Engi AA block, etc.

Now that we have somehow “revised” the current state of the DH, it’s time to make the final comparison with warriors from S3. Just because a class was “an easy win” in a previous season and now isn’t will for sure trigger players who still want an easy win. The same thing happened with warriors and engis.
I don’t mean by this that the guardian doesn’t have to be toned down. Maybe a slight damage reduction to the symbols can work. Yet as it always happens, you need to learn how to fight new opponents.

Hope I could give you some insight on the class and maybe help a bit with your struggles. I personally like the changes they made to guardian. The class feels more unique now as guardian is now a synonym fro symbols and aegis (kinda).
I do feel however that dying to traps is more of an awareness problem than the traps itself dealing a lot of damage. But DHs are not unbeatable trust me. Bear in mind that there isn’t a preset on how to fight a DH. As against any other players the DH will try to kill you and won’t deply the skills in the same way. The more you play the more comfortable you’ll feel against them.

As a DH myself I’m struggling A LOT and I mean A LOT against druids. Yet before complaining I’m trying to see in which ways I can improve.

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

We literally had the same heals prepatch… that’s not why DH are stronger.

Look at the patch notes from the other classes.

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

You can dodge traps, and with that in mind you alse dodge daze.

As for heals they were here for 3,4 years, now they are problem? I suggest you to try playing with DH/guard to learn his powers/weaknesses before yelling for a nerf.

Ragnarox.9601:

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

You can dodge traps, and with that in mind you alse dodge daze.

As for heals they were here for 3,4 years, now they are problem? I suggest you to try playing with DH/guard to learn his powers/weaknesses before yelling for a nerf.

Excused me, i believe this elite is called Dragon Hunter NOT Dragon Protector
I don’t get why DH heal most as much as a bunker guardian and as the same be able to ditch out so much damage. When you pick DH, it supposed to be an offense spec where you give up something (heal) in order to do damage. Core spec (guardian) was a low on offensive side but extremely good on defensive side. Now, with the DH, they are be able to take both the defensive of a guardian and offensive of a DH. This is why core spec are so kittenty.
I feel like if Anet only wanted to play elite spec only. They should just come out and say it. It’s so frustrating to pvp when you want to try out something new and ppl are giving you kitten because it doesn’t run the elite spec trait line. IT’S SAD!

Dh is fine people need to stop crying and learn to play

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

Guardians have 11k base HP, there effective HP is hidden inside heals. Though the trap does have a somewhat high heal.

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

DHs can do these things since the expansion released. They aren’t the reason people are suddenly complaining 100% more now.

Problem is that Tempests who were overloaded with reflects are now gone. Add to the fact that their outgoing heals to their allies were enough to mitigate most of the DH damage.

Since the class that hard countered DHs were removed, the outlying problems of DHs in the past are just surfacing now. I believe you can’t compare old DH to new DH directly like that.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

Guardians have 11k base HP, there effective HP is hidden inside heals. Though the trap does have a somewhat high heal.

And yes im not talking about HP pool. Im talking about high base healing skill like purification

geekilo.8512:

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

Guardians have 11k base HP, there effective HP is hidden inside heals. Though the trap does have a somewhat high heal.

And yes im not talking about HP pool. Im talking about high base healing skill like purification

That’s not the issue… so many clutch plays that calls for Purification to trigger at the right time. Read the other comments above.

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

Nah all of this is fine. In fact everything was like that before hots. Heal trap isn’t that strong, I think signet of resolve can heal for a large chunk too. You just never see guardian use it because….signets kind of suck.

See your problem is you do not understand the design philosophy of guardian. They are meant to engage in combat and stay there. This has been specifically highlighted by anet numerous amounts of times. To stay there in the fight, they need sustain. If they can’t sustain themselves they are broken because they do not have the tools to move in and out of combat at will.

The only real problem is your approach to fighting guardian, I’d say you have tunnel vision….like many pvpers out there. Just because you are failing to kill a class, doesn’t automatically mean they are broken or overpowered. It usually means that you haven’t formed the skills to learn how to beat them. So stop calling out nerfs because “you” are losing.

Here is a small list of stuff that counters guardian:

1. Poison
2. Retaliation (probably would make the guardian kill themselves with all the aoe)
3. Range them, eliminating most of their damage since its all pbaoe.
4. Unblockable skills like signet of strength etc
5. Condi overload

Its not hard, its only hard when you do not want to change how you approach a situation.

What did i say, i said several times that even though DH was weak and needed a sustain boost, traps are going to make those buffs look broken and so many will flock here to scream for nerfs. People thought i had lost my mind, now look.

How many DH is broken threads does this make now?

Aza.2105:

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

Nah all of this is fine. In fact everything was like that before hots. Heal trap isn’t that strong, I think signet of resolve can heal for a large chunk too. You just never see guardian use it because….signets kind of suck.

See your problem is you do not understand the design philosophy of guardian. They are meant to engage in combat and stay there. This has been specifically highlighted by anet numerous amounts of times. To stay there in the fight, they need sustain. If they can’t sustain themselves they are broken because they do not have the tools to move in and out of combat at will.

The only real problem is your approach to fighting guardian, I’d say you have tunnel vision….like many pvpers out there. Just because you are failing to kill a class, doesn’t automatically mean they are broken or overpowered. It usually means that you haven’t formed the skills to learn how to beat them. So stop calling out nerfs because “you” are losing.

Here is a small list of stuff that counters guardian:

1. Poison
2. Retaliation (probably would make the guardian kill themselves with all the aoe)
3. Range them, eliminating most of their damage since its all pbaoe.
4. Unblockable skills like signet of strength etc
5. Condi overload

Its not hard, its only hard when you do not want to change how you approach a situation.

1. Poison is removed every time they block you or with passive or utilities
2. Retaliation is Mainly strong playing as a guardian so what your saying is role guardian to win vs guardian
3. Guardians have range so again role guardian to win vs guardian
4. Condition overload. You just stated a more extreme version of #1. Again they have plenty of condition removal to survive. Conditions pre HoT was their weakness but not post HoT.

geekilo.8512:

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

geekilo.8512:

Here are my problems with DH ^^
Overloaded heals, too many daze
Assumed meta trap build with marauder amulet
Heal skill (purification)- initial heal = 2k heal, active heal = 6.5k heal , smiter’s boon = 2k heal. Total = 10.5k heal on a 24s CD
Utility skills: JI = 2k heal, CoP/smite condition = 2k heal
Elite skill: Renewed focus= 2k heal
Total possible heal- heal trap- 10.5k, utility skills- 4k, elite skill- 2k, 2x F2- 8k heal = 24.5k of healing
Don’t you think that’s a little too much healing for a offensive elite spec ??

Daze on trap
There needed to be a CD on that 5-10s ICD.

Guardians have 11k base HP, there effective HP is hidden inside heals. Though the trap does have a somewhat high heal.

And yes im not talking about HP pool. Im talking about high base healing skill like purification

The reason for high base heal is because they have low base hp.

To me it seems like they Are able to heal better than last season and do more non trap damage. they are much harder to hold a point against than they used to be.

Everyone you can quit reading by the 3rd paragraph. the OP is talking about traps and says they didnt get buffed then says what has change and he writes “the answer is nothing”.

Question did you even read what they did to the other classes?

People are struggling because Anet has gotten rid of any amulet that was defensive. So if you are new to the game, coming back after a break, just bought HOT, trying out a new class etc etc etc. There is no easy way to jump into things.

Getting rid of defensive amulets does not help people struggling in PvP.

Getting rid of eles who were the life blood of support in fights opened the door for the rest of the classes to be evaluated. Now Anet once again changed amulets, the meta and didnt realize ohhhh shoot the other HOT specs are broken too.

Im sorry but this season is the exact opposite of season 1. Season 1 you couldnt kill anything, here are having alot of people die in 5 sec to traps because they are not sure what to do.

You cant blame the player base because they are trying to adjust during a PvP season which is suppose to mean something but Anet just throws it out there with a attitude. Anet is literally saying " huh you wanted PvP leagues? OK heres something enjoy that or just leave".

Here we are in season 4 and yes DH is OP but once again its not the only one.

My issue with DH isnt one shot potential or the amount of condi some people complain about. My issue is the amount of passive defenses combined with certain frustrating mechanics.

Guard as a whole has so many passive defenses; with traits like valorous defense which can provide agis numerous times in a fight and active defenses like renewed focus its really hard to burn down a guard. This combo of sustain heals, blocks, invulns allow guard to just stall out a fight for a very long time. Dragonhunter extended ontop of this base with even more passive defenses, and even better active effects on the virtues. I do agree with the statement of “Once all their defs are gone they floop like a pancake”. Most classes that do not have similar sustain or invulns cannot deal with dragonhunters pressure combined with its sustain. It’s very easy for a low skilled player to sustain against a much higher skilled player because of the amount of passive and active defenses dragonhunter/guard has.

Now I want to talk about dragons maw and hunters ward. Both of them do good damage. That’s fine, what the issue with this skill is how the walls are invisible. Which is frustrating because when you do make a mistake and are locked in one, you can repeatably punish your self for not being able to see the invisible walls basically that will repeatedly knock your self down. The only way to reliably deal with this is inulvn and standing still or pop stability and walk out. Stun breaks like lightning reflexes will only punish you with another knockdown. We used to be able to use block and stand in place but now that heavy light can be combo’ed with unblock able deflecting shot. Also blinking out cc’s you as if you hit the wall…

Traps one issue with is the fact that dh is bugged atm and it allows them to place multiple traps in one cast animation. This can catch people off guard at the start of team fights, rarely does in low man fights.

Traps in general have pretty fast animations. While I do agree with many that you can dodge them, they have a very short window to dodge and are visually difficult to see if you were not there to watch the dh place them. the visual ques on ranger and thief traps are much more clear and noticeable.

Another issue is test of faith damages you even if you do not physically cross it. If you shadow step out, you take damage. If you blink across the whole distance of the trap, you take damage twice. It works like this for any blink skill.

Eval.2371 Guardian and passive defenses ? Guardian is not Warrior or Engineer with passive defences, guardian have all defences like active skills.

Only Hunter’s Determination CD 45 sec gain aegis after CC and Valorou’s defences make aegis on 5 sec 30 sec CD when your HP drop under 50%.

It’s obvious something needs to change, either damage reduced or defense reduced, particularly block.

Stochastic.1398:

It’s obvious something needs to change, either damage reduced or defense reduced, particularly block.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

I like when people write random things you should do.

Evilek.5690:

Eval.2371 Guardian and passive defenses ? Guardian is not Warrior or Engineer with passive defences, guardian have all defences like active skills.

Only Hunter’s Determination CD 45 sec gain aegis after CC and Valorou’s defences make aegis on 5 sec 30 sec CD when your HP drop under 50%.

I’m using the trait as an example. Guard has a lotof passive effects either that proc automatically or add to a current skills. I didn’t feel the need to write it all out but since you asked….

A standard cookie cutter valor virtues dragon hunter build traits give you:

• Valorous defense block every 30 seconds below 50%hp
• Hunter’s Determination Gain agis and stab, then lay fragments of faith which will allow a guard to gain stab and another block, and potentially another 4 blocks
• Retaliatory Subconscious Every 30 seconds get an auto stubreak with agis
• Hunter’s Fortification clears 1 condi per sec. if no condi, 10% damage reduction

Then add in resolve and courages passive effects, which is extra regen, and block every 30 sec or refresh.

Sure none of it is auto defy pain. Still does not change that there is a lot of passive defense and sustain that automatically activates for the player without them having to do anything. That’s the point I’m trying to make here, there is a lot of dh that plays its self.

Dragon hunter/guard still has many active effects that allow it to sustain as well, things like smite condition on heal, or wings of resolve aoe heal and condi clear. I have no problem with the active side. I think those types of skills are healthy.

Overall what I am trying to get across is that dragonhunter is a frustrating opponent with all its active & passive defenses it takes a considerable amount of effort and time to exhaust all of guards passive and active defenses to have a window to finally attempt to kill the the thing. A lot of time this carries lower skilled players, because the class half plays its self. I do not believe the amount of active and passive effects together on the class are healthy or enjoyable to fight against.

Look at it this way:
With 1-2 more DH per team Anet will finally have achieved perfect balance:
5 DH v 5 DH

I can’t some of these people think current DH is balanced -sigh-

The thing that changed was the removal of all amulets that have toughness and healing, as well as the reduction in defense against the direct damage of other classes. So direct damage dealers are now paper too rock. Only DH has great defensive measures with ageis, invulnerability, healing, blocks, and blind; so it is kinda like a rock as well. And rock can crush glassy scissor classes (teef, Mesmer) and it’s only natural enemy (necro) is weak to range and knock backs. Hence the current problems.

The meta will most likely adjust to handle these, since they are by far the most dangerous class right now, so it may be too soon to say they are OP. I’ve been trying all kinds of builds to hard counter them with varying success. The problem is not knowing if you are facing a FotM player or an expert. One build might beat a FotM player/team for lack of skill, but fail miserably vs expert.

DHs aren’t OP, they’re just WAY too easy to play and get results with. With the profession achievements, I’ve been struggling trying to learn all the intricacies of mesmers going back in time and all these weird things you can with their skills, and then I put on DH without knowing a kitten thing about the class and just start instagibbing people left and right.

I don’t have any trouble fighting DHs, but I am pretty peeved at how little effort and skill it takes to get spectacular results.

DH needs higher cooldowns , the amount of heal and damage they can do its so kittened

I still fail to see the big issue here.
You guys are all basically complaining about DHs atributes which were already present since HoT.
The nerf other classes suffered in previous patch allowed DH to now have a chance against engies for example. So now, instead of a known win, you can now win or lose depending on how you play. I really don’t see the problem.
Yes the healing trap heals A LOT. Basically if triggered it will heal ca. 90% of the DHs hp (if using zerker amulet). On the other hand if it does not get triggered it will only heal ca. 15%. The mechanic is cheesy I admit it and personally I’d have prefered a different one but it is what we got. This mechanics demands the opponent to be aware of the placement of the traps.

The blocks last for too long. Yes they do, same as any other classes’ blocks. Revenant hybernation + shield block. Mesmer double shield block. Warrior shield block + Reflect. Engies block. Every class has access to blocks.

I also kinda do agree with ppl who said that being an exclusively offensive option, their defensive capabilities may be above average, maybe. But for example take the revenant. Their sustain is lower but their offensive capabilities are higher. It’s a trade off. The DHs do pbAoE contrary to other classes whose attacks chase you.

In terms of traps I will never agree though. I do not think thay they are overpowered at all, basically because of their mechanic. And you see it yourself, DHs in higher tiers of pvp do not use other than ToF or Aegis trap instead.

Last but not least: Removing amulets won’t solve the pvp crysis. Instead it’s creating new ones because it’s limiting the amount of builds one can wear. The problem is that some classes excel at using a certain amulet and balancing that across all classes is a work that Anet is not willing to do.

the only way they are even annoying is if there is two of them taking turns planting and pulling

The only real problem with DH is the same problem with every profession and their elite spec: too much of everything, especially CCs.

Too much the excessive CC is almost necessary with how many blocks, evades, immunities, heals there are in the game. With such an abundance of everything, it’s easy to succeed by spamming. With fewer options, you are forced to use skills wisely and carefully. That’s skill. What we have now is not skill. Only Tempests now are no longer OP because the ridiculous abundance of everything they have is weaker than the abundance of everyone else. Actually, that does mean they are OP, but they are less OP than the rest.

How many CCs do the meta, or near meta, specs of each profession have? This includes immobilizes, but not chill or crippling. This also includes long setup CCs like Tempest overloads.

DHs: 5 (one is a stun break trap proc)
Scrappers: 4-7 (Elixir X counts as 1)
Chronomancers: 4 (Diversion and Chaos Storm count as 1 each. Also, CS reset CCs don’t count.)
Reapers: 5
Tempests: 4-5
Druids: 4
Daredevils: 4-5 (one is passively applied immob at 50% hp)
Heralds: 3
Berserker: 4

Anyone want to crunch numbers of pre June 2015 meta spec CCs numbers per profession?

I think a lot of people with poor understanding of the guard class are confusing the blocking guards can do with aegis with the blocking they can do with focus 5 and F3. So it seems like they’re blocking forever but they’re really just chaining their blocking skills with blocking from aegis, like they’re supposed to.

A guard can get an initial block from F3 aeigis, activate F3 for a 5 second block, use focus 5 for 3 blocks, use mace 3 for 1 block followed by another block from aegis, use shield 4 for another block from aeigis, they can drop fragments of faith and pick up the shield fragments to get up to 5 aegis which is 5 blocks, they can use renewed focus to refresh F3 for another 5 second block. As far as auto blocks from traits with CDs go, they can get 1 block from aegis if health drops below 50%, they can also get aegis if they are CC’d (which drops fragments of faith which a guard can use to get an additional 5 blocks if they manage to pick up the fragments), and they can get F3 refreshed if they res someone using the valor line. But the trait aegis are unreliable.

This is the same problem with warrior last season, people are not use to fighting DH and get creamed. People complaining that they have low skill level, so do the rest of the classes, not a one is hard to play.

Keep playing find there weakness and get better at fighting them. Stop asking for a game where we all play as one class because you don’t want to learn how to fight the others.

I have seen people blaming the amulets, but truth is that is not the only factor. Saiyan hinted at the problem.

Are people forgetting? That last balance pass there was an almost across the board dmg mitigation nerf. Even though percentages are the same, it hit some classes much harder than others. This in and of itself is an indirect buff to all dmg across the board even traps.

Guardians have a large number of active mitigation, heals and such, so are not feeling it as much especially with some heal buffs that came down. Some other class are feeling it more, since they had next to no options for mitigation, and the only ones they did have, were reduced by 17%(technically more if you read closely, Necro rise for instance isn’t just a 17% nerf it got multiple hits because the minions now have to be attacking and also got health and toughness reduced by 25% each, no minions, no mitigation. LOL! At least they still have spectral armor as an option but really is that enough signs point to no.)

Some may read through and think the changes are small, but they add up quickly. They are truthfully a bit heavy handed. which causes swings like we are now seeing in the current meta.

I will not even mention the poor Ele. What may at first seem like small change, was in fact dropping the entire Nerf factory on that class.

Real balance requires frequent small changes. not make a large number of changes
once a season.

I feel like season 3 was better balanced, but then I don’t have an issue with rock paper scissors balance. Of course If they just want to give us all Instagib rifles, and some capture the flag maps, I am down for that also. Hmmmm, wonder what Wendel is doing now days? I always got a kick out of fragging that youngin.

Yeah… these 6-traitline (With 9 Major traits selected in each) guardians running 10 utilities (Including 2 heals and 2 elites) are OP as hell… And they should get rid of their ability to run 4 weapon sets at a time as well.

Went on my guardian cause we had 3 ranger swapped so we had five. They begged is not to do it. But we just laughed. Even when they 1 up us in rank we still won hard.

The best way to counter Dragonhunter is to play Dragonhunter.

Zelulose.8695:

Went on my guardian cause we had 3 ranger swapped so we had five. They begged is not to do it. But we just laughed. Even when they 1 up us in rank we still won hard.

lmao this guy plays a condi dodge thief and is salty that he can’t beat DHs so he makes a horrible DH build to try to prove a point

Ah yes nerf the thief perma evade. It needs to happen. Sword evade was nerfed now perma vade needs its nerf. I asked them to nerf it. If they don’t nerf something broken I will play it to prove a point.

holychampion.7386:

I’m making this post in order to carify the situation of DHs in the current meta game and how to avoid them/how to counter them.

Before we begin we need to take a look at the notes from balance patch. The most important things that pop up are:

-Traps didn’t get buffed
-Longbow didn’t get buffed, it requires more skill now with #3 with knockback.
-HP pool didn’t get buffed
-Symbols were added to scepter 2 and sword 2
-Shield of courage can’t be interrupted (if traited)
-Wings always heal a minimum of 2 conditions (+3 if traited)

Most complains I’ve seen are focused on the traps. But don’t you find it weird that traps are the same as previous season yet previous season no one complained about traps? What changed?
The answer is nothing. Traps are the same, deal the same damage. The problem is that due to the abundance of ppl playing DH, unaware people who get 1 shot by traps increased. I know they can get a bit tedious in teamfights if a team manages to pop 2 sets of traps (let’s say Test of Faith and Proccesion of Blades (ToF and PoB from now onwards)), yet last season some teams did that yet they acomplished nothing.

What’s wrong then? Why all the complains?
Ppl are arguiing now that the DH are unbeatable now. We need to analyze this statement and I’m going to make some comparisons with warrior from Season 3 (S3 from now onwards).
What changed?
-Blocking time remained the same
-Healings remained the same
-Slug movement remained the same
-Condi cleanse increased: Now DHs are able to cleanse 2 condis with wings of resolve. This means that DHs can relieve a lot more pressure than they could before. If we pop Wings + Smite conditions we can get rid of 4 conditions at once (2 more if we pop our healing trap). This heavily increased our survival in the heavy condition environment that was S3. What else? Now we can’t get our main shield/stunbreaker interrupted which is, imho, logic.
-Overall damage increased due to symbols: The adition of symbols to sword and scepter allowed DHs to actually stand their ground when fighting a point. The ability to permanently pop symbols if you manage to work the rotations properly allowed DHs to stand in the middle of a point while fending attackers. This can be specially nasty against low armor enemies.

So what do we have now… NONE of the skills received a %dmg increase. It’s just that sword went from having no useful skills to have 3 viable skills (symbol, zealot and autoattack (AA from now on)). Scepter went from being complete trash to being somewhat viable due to the increase in AA projectile speed and the placement of a symbol.

The problem now lies in the fact that thanks to symbol uptime + traps uptime the DHs are able to contest a point while deploying overtime AoE attacks. However none of that skills per se are able to deal sufficient damage alone for them being extremely easy to dodge. If they pop everything at once, stand aside.. then contest again and fight an oponent with all their skills on cooldown
When I mentioned that I was going to make comparisons with warrior from S3 I meant to say that a class that was trash tier received a change in its mechanics. Warriors received a great deffensive and offensive upgrade (they were later nerfed though). DHs in this season received only an offensive upgrade since the condi cleanse doesn’t grant increased healing nor can it be the key skill in determining wether a fight is a win or lose (generaly speaking. In highers levels of pvp it will be).

How to handle DHs:
You need to analyse a bit what your opponent is using before you engage in a fight.
Given the sluggish movement of guardians you know for sure they will have Judge’s Intervention. That leaves 2 utilities. One of them for sure is going to be ToF. 1 Reamining now: 2 possible alternatives for the last utilities which can be either Smite Conditions or PoB.
If you see them popping PoB you can infer that their condi cleanse will be subpar so you can condi focus on them. If they don’t have PoB you now know that their “cap” pressure is going to be lower yet their condi cleanse higher.
Advice Here: If they pop ToF on your head, stand iddle in the center of the trap. The damage it does overtime is irrisory

So now what’s the situation: either a big trapper or a a decent condi cleanser.
How do you avoid them?
Keep in mind that the guardian is by far the slowest class in the game and in the curreny meta has only 2 gap closers (sword 2 and Judge’s Intervention). If you remember S3 guardians were meat for ranged attacks because they couldn’t sustain permanent ranged pressure.
As DHs sustain didn’t change they are still vulnerable to that. So a word of advice. If you see there are several DH on a team don’t try to blindly enter the fray as you will get trapped x2 or x3 + symbols and yes, you will get damaged.
If you’re fighting 1 on 1 against a DH but you’re a Revenant, Druid, Engi or p/p Thief you already won (on equal skill level and map awareness). There’s no need advice. For the rest of the classes keep in mind that even though scepter has it’s AA speed increased it can still be dodged by walking sideways.
The key to handling DHs is kiting them. THEY ARE SLUGS they won’t chase you. The healing trap has a downside. It only heals a lot if you step on it. DHs depend on the enemy to heal. Force them to pop their heal traps on a place where you will never walk again while maintaining ranged pressure and the DH will fall.

In group fights the dynamic should still be the same. Only step inside the cap which is usually bigger than the trap radius to avoid the enemy capping. Bear in mind that Renewed Focus doesn’t contribute to point capping thus relieving your capping pressure.

Regarding DHs shield of courage
This skill offers a 5sec frontal block. This doesn’t mean by any chance that DHs become invulnerable as they are able to be attacked from the rear. The key again is to force DHs to move.
As in any fight you aim to hit to your opponents’ weak points.
If you complain about DHs frontal blocks you have to complain of warriors endure pain, Reves glint heal, Druids 0 damage signet, Thieves block, Engi AA block, etc.

Now that we have somehow “revised” the current state of the DH, it’s time to make the final comparison with warriors from S3. Just because a class was “an easy win” in a previous season and now isn’t will for sure trigger players who still want an easy win. The same thing happened with warriors and engis.
I don’t mean by this that the guardian doesn’t have to be toned down. Maybe a slight damage reduction to the symbols can work. Yet as it always happens, you need to learn how to fight new opponents.

Hope I could give you some insight on the class and maybe help a bit with your struggles. I personally like the changes they made to guardian. The class feels more unique now as guardian is now a synonym fro symbols and aegis (kinda).
I do feel however that dying to traps is more of an awareness problem than the traps itself dealing a lot of damage. But DHs are not unbeatable trust me. Bear in mind that there isn’t a preset on how to fight a DH. As against any other players the DH will try to kill you and won’t deply the skills in the same way. The more you play the more comfortable you’ll feel against them.

As a DH myself I’m struggling A LOT and I mean A LOT against druids. Yet before complaining I’m trying to see in which ways I can improve.

-why the complaints on trap? Trap damage didn’t increase!
DH attack damage increased significantly with the current meta being sword/focus and scepter/shield. They had little trouble killing people in team fights before, now they can consistently 1v1 almost every class in the game provided roughly equal skill levels. Pretty much the only one they cannot beat 75%+ of the time is druids, which isn’t even a hard counter (usually the druid can force one off point but not kill it unless there’s a significant skill gap).

DH’s are now basically immune to condi, with the ability to cleanse 6 at once and 2 of their 4 condi clears being on short cooldowns (16s).

DH’s can basically maintain 100% aegis uptime against 2 other players. It takes either 2 revs UA’ing with shards up at the same time, or 2 thieves jumping one from stealth, or a 1v3 to break through aegis. And then they have prot, 2 full heals on 16s cooldowns, 2 blocks, and blind.

DH’s have a long-duration invuln. On top of aegis/block/aoe blind, 2 complete heals, and nigh-immunity to condi.

DH’s now have 2 shadowsteps.

2 of the 4 main traps used in sPVP are instant casts and not interruptable. Yes, people will say “if you die to a trap you suck”, and while this is true 1v1 traps are absolutely lethal in team fights for basically no skill in their usage. Dragon’s Maw+scrapper shock field=dead. Blades or ToF+mesmer float=dead. Blades+ToF+Dragon’s Maw (if you have the team comp to sacrifice the invuln)=insta-death for anybody. This is fine, running 3 traps gives up a lot of elite skill ability. What’s not fine is the normal build where you have an already bursty class (wings+sword3) with an additional 5-10k damage from ToF. It is broken that in a team fight 2 button presses that can be hit at the same time will 100-0 every other class in the game unless they already accidentally had aegis/invuln up.

Every escape or heal ability a DH has is also offensive and AoE, and half of their offensive abilities have a defensive element that requires zero user input. No other class has that.

They bring best-in-game personal survivability with third-best burst damage, best-in-game group utility, and third-best group healing.

Lucred.1802:

-why the complaints on trap? Trap damage didn’t increase!
DH attack damage increased significantly with the current meta being sword/focus and scepter/shield. They had little trouble killing people in team fights before, now they can consistently 1v1 almost every class in the game provided roughly equal skill levels. Pretty much the only one they cannot beat 75%+ of the time is druids, which isn’t even a hard counter (usually the druid can force one off point but not kill it unless there’s a significant skill gap).

Why does are no DH in last few seasons in competitive gameplay if they are so OP?

Lucred.1802:

DH’s are now basically immune to condi, with the ability to cleanse 6 at once and 2 of their 4 condi clears being on short cooldowns (16s).

1 have 16 sec cd, 2 have 1 sec activation time and predictable and interruptable(WoR).

Lucred.1802:

DH’s can basically maintain 100% aegis uptime against 2 other players. It takes either 2 revs UA’ing with shards up at the same time, or 2 thieves jumping one from stealth, or a 1v3 to break through aegis. And then they have prot, 2 full heals on 16s cooldowns, 2 blocks, and blind.

Show me how, I would like to know how to get perma aegis against 2 ppl.

Lucred.1802:

DH’s have a long-duration invuln. On top of aegis/block/aoe blind, 2 complete heals, and nigh-immunity to condi.

Still we can get condi dmg while being vulnerable.

Lucred.1802:

DH’s now have 2 shadowsteps.

we had that for 4 years.

Lucred.1802:

2 of the 4 main traps used in sPVP are instant casts and not interruptable. Yes, people will say “if you die to a trap you suck”, and while this is true 1v1 traps are absolutely lethal in team fights for basically no skill in their usage. Dragon’s Maw+scrapper shock field=dead. Blades or ToF+mesmer float=dead. Blades+ToF+Dragon’s Maw (if you have the team comp to sacrifice the invuln)=insta-death for anybody. This is fine, running 3 traps gives up a lot of elite skill ability. What’s not fine is the normal build where you have an already bursty class (wings+sword3) with an additional 5-10k damage from ToF. It is broken that in a team fight 2 button presses that can be hit at the same time will 100-0 every other class in the game unless they already accidentally had aegis/invuln up.

Traps are meant to be that way, unseen and dodgable (if you pay attention for a sound of placement and animation where someone placed them).

Lucred.1802:

Every escape or heal ability a DH has is also offensive and AoE, and half of their offensive abilities have a defensive element that requires zero user input. No other class has that.

They bring best-in-game personal survivability with third-best burst damage, best-in-game group utility, and third-best group healing.

What escape ability? Teleport (which you need a person to teleport into)? GS 3? WoR that can be interruptable? Group healing?You talk about guardians?right?

Edit: I have seen some of your posts where you say that DH have almost perma quickness, and Engie turrets have too much HP, and thats the end for me arguing with you….