Guild Wars 2

Hello guys.

I’ve been playing sPvP since the begining of the season and I feel that I’ve played quite some matches (~200ish) in order to get a grasp concerning the current season.
I am currently sitting in Gold T2, fyi.

I’ve always felt that GW2 was too spammy since launch, especially when compared to GW1 or other good PvP games.
After HoT the issue became worse but after the last balance patch it just got even worse. Although, to be fair, it was so long ago I can’t remember when it was. LOLz at ANET’s PvP balance speed…

Currently, sPvP is a a huge pile of messy skills, a clusterconfusion of insta-spells, procs, automatic skills, AI playing for the player (looking at you clones, minions and pets) and all in all skills that do 4-5 effects at the same time.
This is aggravated by the existance of powerful traps courtesy of the DH, traps that stack, that are cast “in your face”, on a PvP mode that is all about capping points.

The abundance of cheesy builds is over-the-top, but worst of all, are the builds that are simply unfun to play against (looking at trolling running thieves, double-Moa’ing / tripple shattering Mesmers).

How is it possible that any junior Dev looks at this mess of PvP and thinks things are balanced? How is it that any Dev worth his salt is happy with the state of this spammy meta?

The matches are so unfun to play due to the idiotic Conquest mode (idiotic design for a game like GW2) with all the spam and automatic skills, randomly shared auras, over-the-top clone cast, Moa-spam, trap stacking, trolling running thieves that sometimes even when I win, I feel disgusted and annoying with this mess and simply not having fun.

Sometimes I wonder if Evan plays any PvP or even if he watches any matches..other than looking at this travesty of his Match-making system of his and feeling undeservingly proud of a lousy system.

Spamming doesn’t get you anywhere though. It’s predictable and easily countered.

It just works at low levels of play where people are bad.

GW2 was not spammy at launch, cant spam elite skills (moa) there are only a few cheesy builds since thief and DH mechanics are based around them.

I can agree that the game is very much cluttered with effects but i feel your post is a little misguided with what you are trying to say. Since you are basically saying everything is bad. For instance i quit playing LOL because i found it boring.

I am not saying everything is bad, I am saying that the current PvP is way too much spammy, and also filled with too many automatic effects, procs and random boonshare.

It removes a lot of the strategic elements of a match and just makes it so who can spam better/faster/more efficiently.

Let’s see, off the top of my head (I am sure I’ll forget a bunch but you get the idea):

1. Eles (which I play the most): Boonshare, which has automatic triggers for healing, Vigor, Regen and condi removal.
   The auras can be a mess during intense team fights, it’s hard for an opponent to see when/if an aura is going to pop and avoid hitting someone with an aura
2. Mesmers (which I also play) : Clone and shatter spam, which triggers lots of condis; Double Moa, Double/tripple Shatter spam which also triggers the previously mentioned condis; AoE Dazes which during a team fight also get very difficult to predict/see/avoid; Double shield 5 with it’s 2xdouble stun, quickness and projectile denial.
3. Thief: daze spam, backstab spam, interrupt spam; Automatic/insta-stomps (who was the idiot that thought this would be a good idea?); generally a trollish and unfun build to play against due to the huge burst, excellent mobility and general running around the map. It might be fun playing with one, but it’s very unfun playing against one (which should absolutely be considered and avoided when designing a class for PvP).
4. Druid: Longbow spam from afar; lots of healing; Celestial Avatar spam, Pet swap and F2 when possible; too much mobility for the amount of heals and DPS it does.
5. Engi: Invulnerability and block spam, waaaaay too much damage for its survivability; way too many automatic invulnerabilities.
6. Necro: how to put it? Condi spam; GS attack spam, Shroud spam; automatic proc spam due to how the build was designed. One of the greatest offenders as far as automatic procs are concerned.
7. DH: trap spam on teamfights; trap spam on points; Lots of skills with 3-4-5 different effects at the same time

I am not in the mood to list every spammable class and skill in detail, I think this is enough to get a feeling that there’s waaaaaaaaaay too much stuff going on at the same time just by casting 1-2 skills, let alone if you start spamming.
Think about it: almost every skill or trait in GW2 does 2-3-4 sometimes 5 different effects. It’s insane.

Last but not the least, another point that I’ve made is that, at least for me, it’s not fun playing a meta with this huge clusterkitten of skills, effects, automatic-triggered traits and procs and also all visual clutter.
1vs1 and 2vs2 can be a bit fun, but 4vs4 and 5vs5 it’s such a spam fest and visual clutter that makes sPvP unatractive to play as player or watch as a spectator. Imo.

kdaddy.5431:

GW2 was not spammy at launch, cant spam elite skills (moa) there are only a few cheesy builds since thief and DH mechanics are based around them.

On the flip side, at launch we had builds running around 1-shotting people. with other classes being totally useless.

Also for the record, nearly all auto-procs are core traits that have been around for years. The only “new” auto-procs, are the two on rev, and the trait in DH.

Crinn.7864:

kdaddy.5431:

GW2 was not spammy at launch, cant spam elite skills (moa) there are only a few cheesy builds since thief and DH mechanics are based around them.

On the flip side, at launch we had builds running around 1-shotting people. with other classes being totally useless.

Also for the record, nearly all auto-procs are core traits that have been around for years. The only “new” auto-procs, are the two on rev, and the trait in DH.

But the use they are seeing on the current meta is way too much, there’s way too many automatic effects and procs.

In the end, the player isn’t playing, the clones/minions/pets/procs/automatic traits are.
PvP should be player vs player, not proc vs proc…

Bio Flame.4276:

1. Eles (which I play the most): Boonshare, which has automatic triggers for healing, Vigor, Regen and condi removal.
   The auras can be a mess during intense team fights, it’s hard for an opponent to see when/if an aura is going to pop and avoid hitting someone with an aura
2. Mesmers (which I also play) : Clone and shatter spam, which triggers lots of condis; Double Moa, Double/tripple Shatter spam which also triggers the previously mentioned condis; AoE Dazes which during a team fight also get very difficult to predict/see/avoid; Double shield 5 with it’s 2xdouble stun, quickness and projectile denial.
3. Thief: daze spam, backstab spam, interrupt spam, generally a trollish and unfun build to play against due to the huge burst, excellent mobility and general running around the map. It might be fun playing with one, but it’s very unfun playing against one (which should absolutely be considered and avoided when designing a class for PvP).
4. Druid: Longbow spam from afar; lots of healing; Celestial Avatar spam, Pet swap and F2 when possible; too much mobility for the amount of heals and DPS it does.
5. Engi: Invulnerability and block spam, waaaaay too much damage for its survivability; way too many automatic invulnerabilities.
6. Necro: how to put it? Condi spam; GS attack spam, Shroud spam; automatic proc spam due to how the build was designed. One of the greatest offenders as far as automatic procs are concerned.
7. DH: trap spam on teamfights; trap spam on points; Lots of skills with 3-4-5 different effects at the same time

And most of those things that you are calling spam actually requiring stringing together multi-ability combos.
Necro for instance requires a combination of weapon and shroud skills in addition to corrupts in order to create that “condi spam”

You’re not complaining about spam. You’re just hyper-generalizing everything.

Semantics. I would argue that “stringing together multi-ability combos” when done mindlessly and without a real strategy or oportunity costs is the very definition of spamming.

But all in all, whatever you want to call it, my point/idea stands – way to much stuff going on at the same time, some of which is completely automatic and procced, instead of player activated and/or controlled.

Don’t argue semantics, argue my ideas.

Bio Flame.4276:

Semantics.
My point/idea stands.

Don’t argue semantics, argue my ideas.

Your idea is pure rhetoric.

You are using a definition of “spam” that is so broad that you could apply that term to literally anything.

However narrow your definition of “Spam” is, are you really inteligently arguing that GW2 doesn’t have too many multi-effects skills, too many automatic traits, too many procs, too much AI over player controlled actions and overall promotes, let’s call it “fast skill chains without failed oportunity costs”?

Is that what you’re arguing for?

Probably would rework your opinion, OP.

Most of the examples you cited are either misguided or downright wrong despite the fact I agree with your premise.

Really, the game is just too bloated with freebies right now. Passives, procs, and the likes are all for whatever reason now extremely potent, on very low cooldowns, and punish skilled play made by the opposing player.

Whereas prior, you had great example skills like Hard to Catch which was a free auto-stunbreak and on a 60s cooldown on a profession that had limited expendable stunbreak access (since Shadowstep is the only good condi cleanse on thief). Now you have it on half cooldown with refilling endurance + another trait in the line that makes it invulnerable on a 40s ICD and a passive immob cure on its GM, too.

Every profession is like this now, and it’s made GW2 just less interesting in general since you never know how to approach combat aside from very strict rotations on optimal kits which try to negate as many of these builds as possible, rather than utilizing skilled play to enable them to work against most things.

I don’t think spam is the correct word but ya we understand where you are coming from. The thing I hate at the moment is free-cast blocking, dmg invulnerability and invulnerability. Gets lame being attacked by people who are in a state that it is pointless to attack.

Medi dh, stance berserkers and condi chrono are the most obnoxious things to fight.

Crinn.7864:

kdaddy.5431:

GW2 was not spammy at launch, cant spam elite skills (moa) there are only a few cheesy builds since thief and DH mechanics are based around them.

On the flip side, at launch we had builds running around 1-shotting people. with other classes being totally useless.

Also for the record, nearly all auto-procs are core traits that have been around for years. The only “new” auto-procs, are the two on rev, and the trait in DH.

I dont remember that, i remember dhuumfire necros and spirit rangers being a problem but otherwise it was ele was useless and more bunkery builds. I could be mistaken though, that was 5 years ago.

Bio Flame.4276:

Crinn.7864:

kdaddy.5431:

GW2 was not spammy at launch, cant spam elite skills (moa) there are only a few cheesy builds since thief and DH mechanics are based around them.

On the flip side, at launch we had builds running around 1-shotting people. with other classes being totally useless.

Also for the record, nearly all auto-procs are core traits that have been around for years. The only “new” auto-procs, are the two on rev, and the trait in DH.

But the use they are seeing on the current meta is way too much, there’s way too many automatic effects and procs.

In the end, the player isn’t playing, the clones/minions/pets/procs/automatic traits are.
PvP should be player vs player, not proc vs proc…

I understand what you are saying but as someone who has alot of game under the belt, you have to know that they are coming.

Its like being a basketball player and you have played against this other guy since 1st grade and now you are in the state championship.

You guys do the dance because you know each others moves and you simply have to time your shot and defenses when you know they are at there final moves.

I for one have been ironically getting into 1 vs 1 when i play my warrior in rank. I am unable to beat DHS because it takes too long, i am unable to beat revs (im playing power) because it takes too long and i only beat necros when they dont have full RS.

I mean when you go into 1 vs 1 rooms, you kind of see what you are fighting and you go threw the process. Same thing happens in the match.

You count your opponents dodges, check to see if they use there signets, i watch for stability, then for DH’s i know i have to count twice twice since they get f-1-2-3 twice with renewed focus.

So i completely understand what you are saying but i feel it is not the correct work.

Except for thief and DH to me yes they are spam

Bio Flame.4276:

Engi: Invulnerability and block spam, waaaaay too much damage for its survivability; way too many automatic invulnerabilities.

The only “automatic invulnerability” engineer has is in Self-Regulating Defenses, a trait that engineers have had since launch, and one many of us love to hate because it kills us to condi damage just as often as it saves us from power damage.

The only difference to how this trait has always worked is that they changed the way HGH works so that it now extends the duration of Elixir S from 3 seconds to 4. A pretty big buff no doubt, but with a 60 second cooldown it’s hardly “too many,” and we used to have more invulnerability back when we ran Elixir S as a utility skill.

As for your “shield spam,” Shock Shield has the same cooldown as the Tool Kit’s Gear Shield does, so the amount of blocks an Inventions/Alchemy/Scrapper build has with the hammer isn’t really any different from how many block the FT/TK condi build has historically had (which now has less since they nerfed Gear Shield, actually).

So just to recap: engineer has pretty much the same amount of invuln it always has (arguably less), and pretty much the same block spam we’ve had (with the core build having less now than it used to).

The primary differences that Scrapper brings to the table is Rapid Regeneration and Rocket Charge, and unlike Gear Shield, Shock Shield actually does damage.

I agree that PvP builds are much spammier now than they used to be, but I think your criticism should at least be in the right place, and engineer is hardly in a state where it should be complained about in any remote sense unless it’s in response to the carpal tunnel symptoms that get induced when playing the condi build in raids.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bio Flame.4276:

Engi: Invulnerability and block spam, waaaaay too much damage for its survivability; way too many automatic invulnerabilities.

The only “automatic invulnerability” engineer has is in Self-Regulating Defenses, a trait that engineers have had since launch, and one many of us love to hate because it kills us to condi damage just as often as it saves us from power damage.

The only difference to how this trait has always worked is that they changed the way HGH works so that it now extends the duration of Elixir S from 3 seconds to 4. A pretty big buff no doubt, but with a 60 second cooldown it’s hardly “too many,” and we used to have more invulnerability back when we ran Elixir S as a utility skill.

As for your “shield spam,” Shock Shield has the same cooldown as the Tool Kit’s Gear Shield does, so the amount of blocks an Inventions/Alchemy/Scrapper build has with the hammer isn’t really any different from how many block the FT/TK condi build has historically had (which now has less since they nerfed Gear Shield, actually).

So just to recap: engineer has pretty much the same amount of invuln it always has (arguably less), and pretty much the same block spam we’ve had (with the core build having less now than it used to).

The primary differences that Scrapper brings to the table is Rapid Regeneration and Rocket Charge, and unlike Gear Shield, Shock Shield actually does damage.

I agree that PvP builds are much spammier now than they used to be, but I think your criticism should at least be in the right place, and engineer is hardly in a state where it should be complained about in any remote sense unless it’s in response to the carpal tunnel symptoms that get induced when playing the condi build in raids.

Thank you for your reply.

My point is not that the Scrapper is too spammy though. My point is that the meta is too spammy, too filled with automatic effects, automatic traits, too many procs, too many instant cast skills/effects.

The Scrapper has a few of these issues although I admit he is not the worst offender (looking at you Mesmer, thief, DH, Necro and Ele). The issue is that the Scrapper also contributes to this problem.

If it was only one class to have these spammy, automatic effects then it would be bad enough. But almost every single class has this spammy gameplay and you get them together on a match, it adds up and the problem gets worse and worse.

Do you guys enjoy playing on a meta that is so full of spammy classes, filled with automatic effects and traits and procs?
I would argue that these non-player controled effects and overal spammy skills make PVP less enjoyable to play and even less enjoyable to watch.

Bio Flame.4276:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bio Flame.4276:

Engi: Invulnerability and block spam, waaaaay too much damage for its survivability; way too many automatic invulnerabilities.

The only “automatic invulnerability” engineer has is in Self-Regulating Defenses, a trait that engineers have had since launch, and one many of us love to hate because it kills us to condi damage just as often as it saves us from power damage.

The only difference to how this trait has always worked is that they changed the way HGH works so that it now extends the duration of Elixir S from 3 seconds to 4. A pretty big buff no doubt, but with a 60 second cooldown it’s hardly “too many,” and we used to have more invulnerability back when we ran Elixir S as a utility skill.

As for your “shield spam,” Shock Shield has the same cooldown as the Tool Kit’s Gear Shield does, so the amount of blocks an Inventions/Alchemy/Scrapper build has with the hammer isn’t really any different from how many block the FT/TK condi build has historically had (which now has less since they nerfed Gear Shield, actually).

So just to recap: engineer has pretty much the same amount of invuln it always has (arguably less), and pretty much the same block spam we’ve had (with the core build having less now than it used to).

The primary differences that Scrapper brings to the table is Rapid Regeneration and Rocket Charge, and unlike Gear Shield, Shock Shield actually does damage.

I agree that PvP builds are much spammier now than they used to be, but I think your criticism should at least be in the right place, and engineer is hardly in a state where it should be complained about in any remote sense unless it’s in response to the carpal tunnel symptoms that get induced when playing the condi build in raids.

Thank you for your reply.

My point is not that the Scrapper is too spammy though. My point is that the meta is too spammy, too filled with automatic effects, automatic traits, too many procs, too many instant cast skills/effects.

The Scrapper has a few of these issues although I admit he is not the worst offender (looking at you Mesmer, thief, DH, Necro and Ele). The issue is that the Scrapper also contributes to this problem.

If it was only one class to have these spammy, automatic effects then it would be bad enough. But almost every single class has this spammy gameplay and you get them together on a match, it adds up and the problem gets worse and worse.

Do you guys enjoy playing on a meta that is so full of spammy classes, filled with automatic effects and traits and procs?
I would argue that these non-player controled effects and overal spammy skills make PVP less enjoyable to play and even less enjoyable to watch.

Look I totally hate passive effects/procs. It make game easier yea! But boring!! Anet should experiment with trait rework. For example – scrapper have trait, where you gain 3sec quickness/10sec if you have 10+might. This is not bad passive model – its a harder to reach 10 might then only make a critical hit.

I wish to my traits significantly upgrade my utilities, weapon skills. Passives like auto-godmode, auto-health saver must be gone.

Bio Flame.4276:

1. Thief: daze spam, backstab spam, interrupt spam; Automatic/insta-stomps (who was the idiot that thought this would be a good idea?); generally a trollish and unfun build to play against due to the huge burst, excellent mobility and general running around the map. It might be fun playing with one, but it’s very unfun playing against one (which should absolutely be considered and avoided when designing a class for PvP).

when the person has no clue about the class…..

- backstab can’t be spammed due to CD and stealth requirement which is gated behind other CDs
- that stomp is not automatic, it is an elite that needs to be activated. It is also not instant, it is combination of 3 attacks, each has a cast time (so easily interruptable), the finishing blow has 1.5 sec animation.
- other classes have more burst
- newsflash thieves were always about running around the map. Anet stripped them off everything (because of posters like you) and gave them only ability to “run around the map”. Players like you asked for it, now enjoy the results.

what is “fun” is very subjective….

There are times where I can´t see kitten cause all of the clusterkitten, minions, clones etc.. Makes it hard to follow the target.

OP is a great example of not being aware of class mechanics of mesmer, even though suggesting he also plays it.

Chrono condi mes is one of the builds with you should never, ever spam. I’m not even going to debate the other points, but double moa hurts my eyes so bad. There are ridiculously few cases when you should double moa to lose it for ~30% of the game..

Btw main point of the topic stands, problem is more the DH / war and maybe necro (but the whole design of the class is spammy) type classes, where you can spam pretty much any ability and you have a high chance of getting a kill. Necro is slightly smaller problem because it is actually very squishy unlike the other two.

Navajas.3147:

OP is a great example of not being aware of class mechanics of mesmer, even though suggesting he also plays it.

Chrono condi mes is one of the builds with you should never, ever spam. I’m not even going to debate the other points, but double moa hurts my eyes so bad. There are ridiculously few cases when you should double moa to lose it for ~30% of the game..

Btw main point of the topic stands, problem is more the DH / war and maybe necro (but the whole design of the class is spammy) type classes, where you can spam pretty much any ability and you have a high chance of getting a kill. Necro is slightly smaller problem because it is actually very squishy unlike the other two.

Well, good players will be able to survive spamming dh/warr etc., when they are out of cd they are easy to kill.

This thread in summary:
People claiming that (insert class they don’t play) is too spammy.

And that really what “spam qq” threads usually are. They are just standard QQ threads but with the poster trying disguise it.

The last 2-3 posts seem to have one thing in common: “My XYZ class isn’t spammy, all the others are though” + “My class isn’t spammy, the OP is a bad player”

Fellow players, I am not saying anything concerning your individual skill. I am not saying that specifically you spam.
I am saying the players spam, with all classes. The meta is spammy, not only one specific class.

Some previous posters replied saying that “You can’t spam with thief, you must be bad” or “Mesmers shouldn’t spam unless you’re bad”.
Well, we’re not speaking about me or you or someone else in particular. I am talking about how the classes tend to play as, in this current meta, as spammy.
So again, it’s not about YOU, it’s about the classes in general, post-HOT.
The classes are not your mother, nor your GF, nor your Wife, so stop being so touchy and sensitive when someone says that there’s something badly designed with a specific trait or skill on your class.

The issue is that with so much spam, so much automatic procs and effects, skills that have 3-4-5 different effects, the meta promotes mindless spamming and luck instead of rewarding players for using their skills during windows of opportunity and punishing players with lost opportunity costs.

And I repeat: the issue with a spammy meta, spammy classes, full of automatic traits and procs and skills with 4-5 different effects is that it makes the game to loose depth, to become shallower, less enjoyable to play and a lot less enjoyable to watch.

Bio Flame.4276:

Thank you for your reply.

You’re welcome.

Bio Flame.4276:

My point is not that the Scrapper is too spammy though. My point is that the meta is too spammy, too filled with automatic effects, automatic traits, too many procs, too many instant cast skills/effects.

The Scrapper has a few of these issues although I admit he is not the worst offender (looking at you Mesmer, thief, DH, Necro and Ele). The issue is that the Scrapper also contributes to this problem.

Okay, no … just, no. Scrapper isn’t contributing to anything, and it’s probably the only elite spec aside from Herald that’s actually balanced on par to core trait lines.

Let me explain a few things for you, because I think you’re egregiously misunderstanding just how much ArenaNet screwed us over in Heart of Thorns and the 2015 pre-release trait overhaul, and just how sorry a state the engineer is in currently.

Backpack Regenerator is a “master” Alchemy trait that enables us to regen 117 + 5% Healing Power per second with a kit equipped. We have had this from day one, just like Self-Regulating Defenses. Here’s the thing though: before Heart of Thorns, Self-Regulating Defenses was an “adept” trait. It wasn’t in the same tier as BPR, meaning the core engi build allowed us to take both.

Let me reiterate just so it’s clear: Alchemy survivability was nerfed in Heart of Thorns. We used to take both BPR and SRD, but now we’re forced to choose. They circumvented this loss in survivability by overhauling the way HGH works, essentially blowing up our self-might stacking potential (to the happiness of every necromancer reading this thread) and trading off some survivability for more damage.

Scrapper’s Rapid Regenerator is an incredibly strong trait, and substantially more powerful healing than BPR, but let’s be serious:

1. Rapid Regenerator’s 101 healing per second under swiftness is not only weaker than Backpack Regenerator, it has substantially worse uptime by relying on a boon the Inventions/Alchemy/Scrapper build doesn’t natively have outside of blasting Thunderclap with Acid Bomb or the Healing Turret or by proccing Hidden Flask.

2. Rapid Regenerator’s 340 healing per second under super speed doesn’t fare much better, giving us only ~2K healing every blown-up gyro if running Final Salvo. Objectively speaking Rapid Regenerator gets stronger the more gyros you’re using, but most of us only run two right now: Purge Gyro and Bulwark Gyro. Neither of these are efficiently used by blowing them up early outside of getting a stability stack, so you’re realistically looking at getting ~4K every 30 seconds if you activate them on CD—and often blowing up at intervals you cannot fully control.

And though you’re likely not thinking about it: yes, that is as much healing a guardian can do just by pressing Wings of Resolve. And, yes, it also heals everyone around them. And yes it’s a mobility skill. And yes, it’s a leap finisher, which can heal for another 1300+ in a water field. But let’s get back to your huehue engi complaints again.

In sum, we’re essentially looking at 200+ HPS for Scrapper when running Rapid Regeneration and Final Salvo together. While that’s obviously good, and much better than Backpack Regenerator, your accusation that Scrapper is “spammy” or “automatic” is quite frankly bullkitten.

Good players just drop wells or Hundred Blade/Whirlwind Attack engineers standing in their lightning fields. It’s like one huge arrow pointing over my head to “attack here.”

Beyond the obvious mobility advantage, the 117 HPS from Backpack Regenerator was much more easily managed and maintained, as all it took was dropping into one of the several kits the core engi build has always ran to get it. Furthermore, the trait itself was bugged, enabling us to get the regen for another 5-10 seconds even after exiting our kit.

So what exactly are we talking about here? Engi is looking at a 100 HPS upgrade and a few evades, and we’re now an “invuln block spamming” profession in Heart of Thorns? Yeah, maybe when the expansion first came out, when Slick Shoes wasn’t kitten, when Rocket Charge had 3 leaps, and before Rapid Regeneration was nerfed. Engineer has gotten literally nothing but nerfs since Heart of Thorns launched, and it has shown: we aren’t valuable in any aspect of this game: PvE, PvP, or WvW.

Engineer is in such a terrible state that most pro league teams stopped running them, and I am regularly yelled at in matches for playing a profession I’ve mained since 2012. You’re right to complain that other professions are super spammy right now and just completely stupid. I’ve begun playing a warrior like everybody else and now see higher HPS values with Healing Signet with more HP, more armor, more blocks, more stuns, more evades, better mobility, and higher damage.

Complain about Heart of Thorns all you want, but leave us engineers out of it.

this is how its always been.
wont change.
hope dead.

Maybe gw2 should make combat turn based.

Bio Flame.4276:

Some previous posters replied saying that “You can’t spam with thief, you must be bad” or “Mesmers shouldn’t spam unless you’re bad”.
Well, we’re not speaking about me or you or someone else in particular. I am talking about how the classes tend to play as, in this current meta, as spammy.
So again, it’s not about YOU, it’s about the classes in general, post-HOT.
The classes are not your mother, nor your GF, nor your Wife, so stop being so touchy and sensitive when someone says that there’s something badly designed with a specific trait or skill on your class.

Pointless rhetoric. Posters aren’t disagreeing because they are sensitive, they are disagreeing because you are flat wrong.

the meta promotes mindless spamming and luck instead of rewarding players for using their skills during windows of opportunity and punishing players with lost opportunity costs.

And I repeat: the issue with a spammy meta, spammy classes,

the meta is not spam. Spamming will get you wrecked in short order by players that know how to use “windows of opportunity.”
The only place where “spam” occurs is low level play where the players don’t know any better.

But I don’t think you are dying to spam. I think you simply don’t understand the game well enough to know the difference.

Who says I am dying? Who says I don’t understand the game?
Stop making this personal. It’s not personal.

I have an opinion – there’s way too many automatic traits, effects, skills that have 4-5 different effects, passive procs,etc.
It seems quite a few posters just come here to defend “their lady”, be it Thief, Mesmer, Scrapper.
They usually say something like “My XYZ class is not spammy, but yes the other classes are”. In short: they are agreeing with my statements, except when it gets to their “lady” [class].

I am not “attacking” any specific class, I am not targeting any player individually.
I am making a point that the overall feel of the matches with all these post-HoT builds have way too many skills and effects that are either automatic passive procs or have too many effects on one single skill, thus making the matches feels spammy and thus not enjoyable to play or watch.

Stop with the ad hominem attacks. This is not about me, or you or “your ladies”. It’s about PvP and the feel of the matches.

Now, if you come here and say that the matches are not spammy, that you don’t ever see players spamming skills, that you don’t feel there’s way too many passive procs and automatic traits/skills, that bad plays are punished (as they should be) and good plays rewarded, that the game has increased in tactical and strategic depth post-HoT…
….well, just say so. And say why.

Ad hominens do nothing here. Discuss the ideas, not the person.

Bio Flame.4276:

They usually say something like “My XYZ class is not spammy, but yes the other classes are”. In short: they are agreeing with my statements, except when it gets to their “lady”

Don’t misunderstand me. I just focus on scrapper because it’s my main profession and it’s the one I’ve spent years playing. I cannot confirm or deny your statements regarding anything else because I’ve barely touched other classes in this game, especially in PvP.

But just because you show such poor understanding of where engi currently stands as well as an obvious misunderstanding of what made scrapper overpowered in the first place (hint: it has nothing to do with evades or invulns but crowd control and healing/sustain) then it wouldn’t surprise me if what you said about every other class was just as inaccurate.

Dude, I am not stating that Scrappers are OP! Jeeez! Relax and stop defending your lady!

I was pointing out automatic, passive procs and Scrapper has a few. It’s not the worst offender (again: looking at you Thieves, Eles – which is my main, but I am not blind to it – Necros, DHs) but it does have passive procs.
As do Wars, Rangers, Mesmers too.

Again: I am not attacking your Lady. I am not saying Scrappers are OP. I am saying Scrappers do have a few passive procs, like most classes do.
And when you gather 10 classes 5vs5, each with a few automatic procs (some with a lot more than “a few”) then the game becomes a complete mess to play and watch.

That is my point. Just that. Relax about Scrappers being OP, because I don’t think they are nor did I say they are.
Re-read my post and try to get the point I was making – there’s an over-abundance of passive, automatic procs, and way too many skills have too many effects per skill.

War never changes ! Let ’s spam off with def~!!!

Bio Flame.4276:

Jeeez! Relax and stop defending your lady!

I think a more appropriate response would be to say: “You’re right, Phineas. I have no kittening idea what I’m talking about.”

Bio Flame.4276:

Re-read my post and try to get the point I was making – there’s an over-abundance of passive, automatic procs, and way too many skills have too many effects per skill.

I read your post. You clearly didn’t read mine, because what you’re saying is stuff I’ve already shown is simply not true.

We got very strong regen (by pre-HoT standards) by just wielding a kit through Backpack Regenerator. No cooldowns. No positioning. Forever. Always.

Rapid Regeneration, on the other hand, operates only on the condition that our gyros are destroyed, and that we’re standing in a specific area (which can be very easily exploited against us). Rapid Regeneration isn’t any more a “passive” than putting a well on the ground is.

That is, if well placement depended on clunky AI that gets snagged on rocks and terrain, and has a mind of its own that always seems three steps behind where it needs to be.

You can absolutely mismanage your gyro cooldowns as a scrapper and get trashed, and there’s a massive drawback in activating and destroying a gyro early in that you’re forgoing a free stability stack that could potentially secure a res/stomp instead.

One requires actual decision-making, and the other you simply get for wielding kits we were nearly always using. Scrapper isn’t this face-roll huehue profession you paint it out to be, perceived as OP or not, and this isn’t even the best example of how much more passive engineer used to be compared to how it is today.

Take for example Bunker Down and the trait it replaced: Elixir Infused Bombs.

Bunker Down requires (1) that you hit a player, (2) that the hit crits, and (3) that you run over and pick up the health pack that drops on the ground afterward. This med pack is single-use with an ICD that can be easily “stolen” by other players during a team fight.

Elixir Infused Bombs, however, which is the trait Bunker Down replaced, just had your Bomb Kit auto attack heal you and your allies without exception.

Which of those two builds sounds more “passive” and “automatic” to you? One that just drops bombs that heal everywhere while getting passive healing at the same time? Or one that actually involves cooldowns, proper positioning, and proper stat allocation?

Just to reiterate what I’ve said throughout this thread: the engineer has just as many blocks as it always has had, and it has less invuln, less passivity, and more room for failure than the Celestial Rifle, FT/TK condi, or 100nade builds ever did in their prime.

And what is all this creepy “my lady” talk? Absolutely bizarre. You’re a strange dude.

dodge druid is by far the most OP class. I can take on entire zergs alone.

sexuallegend.2153:

dodge druid is by far the most OP class. I can take on entire zergs alone.

Didn’t you learn your lesson about bragging when a certain ESL Mesmer told you drinking bleach was more productive then dueling you?

sexuallegend.2153:

dodge druid is by far the most OP class. I can take on entire zergs alone.

what is so special about the stats? its unranked after all..

Phineas Poe.3018:

Complain about Heart of Thorns all you want, but leave us engineers out of it.

Engineers are one of the only classes that feel balanced, I tried playing both core specs and scrapper in ranked and they both performed rather well. Engineer has actually been nerfed quite well, they just forgot about the rest.

When you play your engineer skillfully you get access to a whole scala of dangerous combos (think about elixir gun’s area retaliation) that you aren’t capable to pull off with mindless play, where you just do damage. The class is versatile and promotes good teamplay/awareness.