Current Spvp-situation
You don’t get better gear when you play counter-strike. Yet thousands of people play it.
This will be hard for you to hear..but unfortunately it is the truth – people play pvp.. for pvp. If you think you need more than that.. you probably aren’t a pvp’er. More than likely you are a pve’er that accidentally clicked the wrong menu option.
Go watch the last state of the game and you can get a better feel for where they want to take the pvp.
One of the best thing that happened to gw2 pvp is actually exactly that you don’t need to farm your armors. I’m not sure if that’s what you meant, but grinding for gear is just plain grinding so you can play pvp. In gw2 you don’t need to grind and you can basically just pick up game and play pvp.
Leaderboards should increase popularity, and you would have reason to play to see your name higher on that board.
Incoming updates from what I read on forums are: leaderboard, custom arenas and spectator mode and I think leaderboard will come sooner then these others.
Gunnar’s Hold
Strange, probably its the increase in pve players at spvp that this kind of topics start to pop up again as it was at the beginning of autumn: “gear needs to give me advantage, because I spend moar time grinding : o”. No it should not, in any game that is aimed towards being competitive having gear advantage is a very poor development choice.
Murise, why would that be hard for me to hear?
Phantaram – can you give me an hint in what direction?
Come one guys, I dont know whats your pvp-rank is but you honestly dont find the Spvp like a treadmill without goal and rewards?
Lukin – The grind is just to separate normal pvp-ers (who shall face normal pvp-ers and not 50 ranks above their leve) from those who wants to be competative.
I think they should have made it similar to LoL. So that new player can learn step by step by unlocking things and only get matched against player that are in the same “tutorial” phase. At the moment all those new players are overwhelmed by all the options and instantly get matched against more experienced players.
But I guess its too late now too few players left.
The pvp itself is very enjoyable to play, but when you have been playing for a while it tires you so much.
A fun to play, even if unbalanced, game mode would be a nice addition.
Up Rerroll
Murise, why would that be hard for me to hear?
Phantaram – can you give me an hint in what direction?Come one guys, I dont know whats your pvp-rank is but you honestly dont find the Spvp like a treadmill without goal and rewards?
Lukin – The grind is just to separate normal pvp-ers (who shall face normal pvp-ers and not 50 ranks above their leve) from those who wants to be competative.
No it’s not. Gear treadmill is about who can play for the most amount of time. Gear treadmills, like rank in GW2, doesnt actually indicate you’re good. It just proves you’ve played/can grind more than the rest.
To me, PvP is about getting into a 1v1 – 5v5 fight, and winning due to good team work. It’s about outplaying the other person. It’s not about who can grind 8 hours a day and get the best gear so they can face roll the people who dont.
Anet has made some questionable decisions with this game, but lack of gear grind isn’t one of them. More incentives are needed, but progression should be on a ladder, not stat inflation or power creep.
Hey guys!
The reason writing this is because I have lost faith in Arenanet and GW2. I feel there need to be more content in Spvp to gain my attention again. Nowdays, you can hopefully create a pre-made group and wipe some random pugs but to what end?
- Of course it’s pleasing to increase in ranks of glory but in the end (lvl 80) its not satisfying enough. “Yeah Im lvl 80, so what?” – It doenst affect the game and I dont get any rewards (more than aesthetic) and the Spvp lacks content that changes your character and game-play.
Why invent the wheel twice? Take whats best from WoW and its PVP-system and imploy it into GW2. Today, Spvp is just a treadmill going on and on and on without purpose. For Guildwars2 to keep its current fanbase IT MUST CHANGE. Armour SHOULD (sorry fanboys, this is my thread) make a difference and its SHOULD affect your game-play. Today its just another grind-fest anyway to lvl 80 (pvp-rank) so why doesn’t Arenanet make the effort worth it? I think Gw2 is a great game until.. “end-game”, both PVP and PVE wise. The reason why WoW have been able to stay alive so long is their constant updates on end-game content. Though, I think GW have a huge fan-base witch are very loyal to the game but I see a tragic end for GW in the graveyard with other hyped-lived-not-up-to-the-expectations-since-we-didnt-created-enough-end-game-content-mmo’s.
Finally, do any of you guys have some intell about the Spvp-.situation and upcoming content?`Feel free to share your opinions about the Spvp-situation.
Best regards, Bestan /Gunnars Hold
Gear being equal is one of the few things sPvP/tPvP has going for it. I refuse to go back to WoW, in part, due to gear imbalances in PvP (The trinity is the other). I have actually stopped playing WvW because of ascended gear. The day GW2 does what you suggest is the day I have nothing left to do in this game.
Bestan, I think I understand where you are coming from, but you need to step back and understand the real reasons WoW pvp is more popular (besides having 2-4 times the player-base if you believe the subscription numbers).
The answer is simply ‘progression’. WoW has basically 3 structured pvp modes, Battleground, Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas. If you removed the gear grind by giving all players equal gear, only one mode would see a drastic drop in players, and that would be random battlegrounds. Those playing in arena and RBGs still have their progression by way of their rating/rank. When I played, the gear grind was simply a necessity, but once the team is maxed statted, we continued to play to push our rating higher and higher.
Another problem with GW2 is armor inflation/stagnation. In my opinion, there are too many and too diverse sets of armor for PvP and the biggest problem is having PvE armor sets as a reward for PvP. There needs to be a few DISTINCT sets of PvP armor, some you can get by grinding glory in hot join (there will always be players willing to do that), and another by using some sort of tourney points and another that can only be acquired by reaching a certain rating in tournaments. Ideally, this armor should be transmutable onto PvE gear to appeal to those who like to show off in Lion’s Arch or something (and I can see no reason not to).
Finally, and this has been discussed to death already, there needs to be a proper VISIBLE rating/ranking system (even if rating is only visible to individual players). We need to see some progression.
Competitive players love to pvp, but after months of the same, we’re starting to realize that while other games have a gear treadmill, all we have is a treadmill.
Bestan, I think I understand where you are coming from, but you need to step back and understand the real reasons WoW pvp is more popular (besides having 2-4 times the player-base if you believe the subscription numbers).
The answer is simply ‘progression’. WoW has basically 3 structured pvp modes, Battleground, Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas. If you removed the gear grind by giving all players equal gear, only one mode would see a drastic drop in players, and that would be random battlegrounds. Those playing in arena and RBGs still have their progression by way of their rating/rank. When I played, the gear grind was simply a necessity, but once the team is maxed statted, we continued to play to push our rating higher and higher.
Another problem with GW2 is armor inflation/stagnation. In my opinion, there are too many and too diverse sets of armor for PvP and the biggest problem is having PvE armor sets as a reward for PvP. There needs to be a few DISTINCT sets of PvP armor, some you can get by grinding glory in hot join (there will always be players willing to do that), and another by using some sort of tourney points and another that can only be acquired by reaching a certain rating in tournaments. Ideally, this armor should be transmutable onto PvE gear to appeal to those who like to show off in Lion’s Arch or something (and I can see no reason not to).
Finally, and this has been discussed to death already, there needs to be a proper VISIBLE rating/ranking system (even if rating is only visible to individual players). We need to see some progression.
Competitive players love to pvp, but after months of the same, we’re starting to realize that while other games have a gear treadmill, all we have is a treadmill.
Sorry but i played WoW from the beginning, and if they removed gear from the game i would stop playing arenas. Battlegrounds are by far way more fun then the crap that is arenas. The only reason to play arenas is for the gear.
Setnnex-Necro
Arenas this expansion are the worst. The people complaining about gw2 balance should try them out.
Up Rerroll
Gear advantage in spvp?
So time played should be > Natural skill? No.. Just.. No..
Lysis Kawahara – D/D Elementalist
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
In wow the real fun arenas start when you get a gear to be equal to other teams, so the real game starts after meaningless grind (with the fun part of loosing just because other team has better gear). Here the real game starts right away since everyone is equal, as it should be. When only skill matters then truly a better player is victorious, not a player that had more time grinding kitten.
Blizzard doesn’t even think their PvP for WoW is Esport feasible… And they are right.
A-Net copying them isn’t going to help anything. Now if they are on the right track is debate-able but much closer than the treadmill formula.
Now MOBA and DOTA likes, have a treadmill for runes, and champs, ect. But I’m not even sure if that counts and is very different from the MMO treadmill.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
actually WOW next patch is gonna make all gear in PVP have more similar stats. it’s a huge change
(edited by gwawer.9805)
actually WOW next patch is gonna make all gear in PVP have the same stats. it’s a huge change
thats only in rated BGs from what i understand. then again, i dont follow wow too closely anymore. i only play whenever i feel like spending $15, which is only every now and then.
regardless, gear treadmills in pvp are just frustrating. especially if youre getting into pvp for the first time. sure it doesnt matter in wow at the 2200+ rating range because everyone there obviously has their uberwrathfulherpderp gladiator gear.
thugged out since cubscouts
[SNIP]
Competitive players love to pvp, but after months of the same, we’re starting to realize that while other games have a gear treadmill, all we have is a treadmill.
You’re right, about the “months of the same” part. But wrong when it comes to the gear treadmill issue.
What other games have are features, different modes, and rankings. If ANet would add 1 or 2 maps that are not conquest, I’m sure a lot of people would come back. Give us better match making, leaderboards, show us ratings, and give us some team death match or something to break up the monotony.
What we dont need is a gear gap between players where gear > skill.
This is essentially why i LEFT WvW.
Why bother playing if I have to be lvl 80 in order to be up-to-par? I mean sure you CAN join sub-80, but you won’t have traits, gear, or anything that makes a lvl 80 superior by miles.
I mean even if you own a level 80 weapon, in wvw, you can’t use it till you are actually 80. Meaning I’m at a 100% disadvantage to someone actually level 80.
——————————————————
Pvp gear per rank would just end up like in wow, horrible inbalance and people who already have the gear slaughtering those that don’t.
Imagine if a rank 50+ got a gear bonus on top of all that playtime. Hell even my puny little wolf rank would allow me to completely squash anyone else.
You’re right, about the “months of the same” part. But wrong when it comes to the gear treadmill issue.
What other games have are features, different modes, and rankings. If ANet would add 1 or 2 maps that are not conquest, I’m sure a lot of people would come back. Give us better match making, leaderboards, show us ratings, and give us some team death match or something to break up the monotony.
What we dont need is a gear gap between players where gear > skill.
Don’t misunderstand me, a gear treadmill is exactly what I don’t want. In fact, if WoW removed their gear treadmill for PvP (and I was still interested in playing) I might consider re-subbing.
But even if you add more interesting game types to GW2, that still doesn’t change the fact that competitive players have nothing to work for (ie. rank/rating) and it wouldn’t be long before people would want to get off the pointless treadmill again.
1. Introduce proper progression (rating)
2. More play variety (map types)
3. Multiple formats to appeal to a broad PvP community – Hot joins, custom servers, rated games and tournaments (I’m referring to real tournaments, not the “rated” games that ANet currently call tournaments).
4. Weapons and armor that actually differentiate you based on the game format you prefer. (spot the hot join hero, the rated players, the tournament winners)
For example:
Four NPCs in the mists
> Hot Join Hero Harold – select game format (Cap point, CTF, Deathmatch etc.)
> Custom server Charlie – (all the options plus the ability to host custom tournaments)
> Rated Match Marty – select game format – select solo/premade
> Tournament Tim – ANet sponsored tournaments with nice in-game rewards.
Just some thoughts.
Bestan, I think I understand where you are coming from, but you need to step back and understand the real reasons WoW pvp is more popular (besides having 2-4 times the player-base if you believe the subscription numbers).
The answer is simply ‘progression’. WoW has basically 3 structured pvp modes, Battleground, Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas. If you removed the gear grind by giving all players equal gear, only one mode would see a drastic drop in players, and that would be random battlegrounds. Those playing in arena and RBGs still have their progression by way of their rating/rank. When I played, the gear grind was simply a necessity, but once the team is maxed statted, we continued to play to push our rating higher and higher.
Another problem with GW2 is armor inflation/stagnation. In my opinion, there are too many and too diverse sets of armor for PvP and the biggest problem is having PvE armor sets as a reward for PvP. There needs to be a few DISTINCT sets of PvP armor, some you can get by grinding glory in hot join (there will always be players willing to do that), and another by using some sort of tourney points and another that can only be acquired by reaching a certain rating in tournaments. Ideally, this armor should be transmutable onto PvE gear to appeal to those who like to show off in Lion’s Arch or something (and I can see no reason not to).
Finally, and this has been discussed to death already, there needs to be a proper VISIBLE rating/ranking system (even if rating is only visible to individual players). We need to see some progression.
Competitive players love to pvp, but after months of the same, we’re starting to realize that while other games have a gear treadmill, all we have is a treadmill.
Sorry but i played WoW from the beginning, and if they removed gear from the game i would stop playing arenas. Battlegrounds are by far way more fun then the crap that is arenas. The only reason to play arenas is for the gear.
For you perhaps. I only played arena for getting ratings and achievements, but I stopped because each big patch / expansion, you have to get all the gear again. The majority of the hardcore pvpers in wow all want normalized gear and cosmetic rewards only, the pve crowd want the gear treadmill.
That is what i was agreeing with. I never said i wanted gear advantage. I was just saying arenas were crap.
Setnnex-Necro
You’re right, about the “months of the same” part. But wrong when it comes to the gear treadmill issue.
What other games have are features, different modes, and rankings. If ANet would add 1 or 2 maps that are not conquest, I’m sure a lot of people would come back. Give us better match making, leaderboards, show us ratings, and give us some team death match or something to break up the monotony.
What we dont need is a gear gap between players where gear > skill.
Don’t misunderstand me, a gear treadmill is exactly what I don’t want. In fact, if WoW removed their gear treadmill for PvP (and I was still interested in playing) I might consider re-subbing.
But even if you add more interesting game types to GW2, that still doesn’t change the fact that competitive players have nothing to work for (ie. rank/rating) and it wouldn’t be long before people would want to get off the pointless treadmill again.
1. Introduce proper progression (rating)
2. More play variety (map types)
3. Multiple formats to appeal to a broad PvP community – Hot joins, custom servers, rated games and tournaments (I’m referring to real tournaments, not the “rated” games that ANet currently call tournaments).
4. Weapons and armor that actually differentiate you based on the game format you prefer. (spot the hot join hero, the rated players, the tournament winners)For example:
Four NPCs in the mists
> Hot Join Hero Harold – select game format (Cap point, CTF, Deathmatch etc.)
> Custom server Charlie – (all the options plus the ability to host custom tournaments)
> Rated Match Marty – select game format – select solo/premade
> Tournament Tim – ANet sponsored tournaments with nice in-game rewards.Just some thoughts.
who cares about the pro’s playing. How about we just get average players playing the game? How about we start making pvp fun in this game so that more people will play it. dota 2 does not have a ranking system, does not have (visible) rating. And yet 100’s of thousandths play everyday. WoW has a larger proportion of its population playing its pvp then GW2 has playing its. And no they are not playing it to get gear, the gear is crap for PVE so they are playing it to pvp, yes they get better gear to…oh i don’t know perhaps pvp? Anet needs to start working on making this game fun for people to play, then build from there.
Setnnex-Necro