Guild Wars 2

Looks like Druid has been downgraded.

Two months ago I left this message in the PvP forums stating my concerns pre ranked season. I was not the only one asking ArenaNet to consider the consequences of allowing the Elite Spec’s in ranked without further balance. If only they had listened to us.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/ArenaNet-please-respond-to-this-question/first#post5574630

It’s now clear their answer to my question was: No.

So Daredevil is actually near the top tier..higher than reaper??

Why was druid pushed out? I find myself winning duels on the celestial avatar build (but modified for longbow and staff instead and traits are the same except I put in the pet skill causes weakness ability since I don’t use a greatsword except on guardian occasionally and he’s strictly PvE…for now) and can last awhile so long as I’m not focused and interrupted all the time.

Mitch.4781:

So Daredevil is actually near the top tier..higher than reaper??

they are alphabetical within each section

Agemnon.4608:

Why was druid pushed out? I find myself winning duels on the celestial avatar build (but modified for longbow and staff instead and traits are the same except I put in the pet skill causes weakness ability since I don’t use a greatsword except on guardian occasionally and he’s strictly PvE…for now) and can last awhile so long as I’m not focused and interrupted all the time.

Because outside pro play, most teams don’t run full meta teams. The Abjured even had a DareDevil in the mix this past Monday and they still won. The build’s listed as “great” are still viable. As long as you have a few party members running meta builds you’ll be fine.

Agemnon.4608:

Why was druid pushed out? I find myself winning duels on the celestial avatar build (but modified for longbow and staff instead and traits are the same except I put in the pet skill causes weakness ability since I don’t use a greatsword except on guardian occasionally and he’s strictly PvE…for now) and can last awhile so long as I’m not focused and interrupted all the time.

Druid got pushed out by class stacking. If you know you’re running 2 mes and 2 rev, you only have one spot left. If you are also competing against double mes double rev then the options for the 5th spot get narrowed down to just tempest and scrapper.

The question now is with todays nerfs, is it still worth it to stack mesmers and revenants? Or are more varied team comps stronger than that? In which case you’ll see Druid listed among the meta builds again.

Lol, metabattle does not speak for the meta, contrary to popular belief.

Rom’s druid build is amazing and definitely top tier.

Chip Skylark.2367:

Lol, metabattle does not speak for the meta, contrary to popular belief.

Rom’s druid build is amazing and definitely top tier.

The build on Meta battle no longer matches what Rom is playing.

Chip Skylark.2367:

Lol, metabattle does not speak for the meta, contrary to popular belief.

Rom’s druid build is amazing and definitely top tier.

Except in this case, it does speak to the meta. Really there are 3 top tier classes at this point: condi rev, bunker mesmer, and tempest. The best comp is 2 condi rev, 2 bunker mesmer, and 1 tempest.

Anything else is ok by an expert players, but those 3 are the core strengths.

jewishjoyride.4693:

Chip Skylark.2367:

Lol, metabattle does not speak for the meta, contrary to popular belief.

Rom’s druid build is amazing and definitely top tier.

The build on Meta battle no longer matches what Rom is playing.

I know. That is my point.

You can remove bunker mesmer from the meta now. It’s gone. Congratulations, goal achieved.

Chip Skylark.2367:

jewishjoyride.4693:

Chip Skylark.2367:

Lol, metabattle does not speak for the meta, contrary to popular belief.

Rom’s druid build is amazing and definitely top tier.

The build on Meta battle no longer matches what Rom is playing.

I know. That is my point.

^ this. mets battle is not the be all & end all. its often close minded & out of date. look at what strong, or top players are having success with, & take into account both team comps. some great builds are awful in some situations, & vise versa.

Chip Skylark.2367:

Lol, metabattle does not speak for the meta, contrary to popular belief.

Rom’s druid build is amazing and definitely top tier.

What is Rom’s druid build?

venusiano.8246:

You can remove bunker mesmer from the meta now. It’s gone. Congratulations, goal achieved.

I doubt it. I think mesmer and condi rev have just been brought in line with the rest. I am mesmer main, playing bunker chrono since the first beta week-end, yet I am very happy with those changes.

I hope these will be enough to bring some diversity back, because this is the most stupid and restrictive meta I have ever seen.

Funny to see how some people who have secured a nice domain name, all make a fool. ^^

The listing there has no meaning, the Chrono has, for example, only two reviews, one of which is from the Admin itself.

Unpleasant reviews are deleted, as happened to my.

On the side is nothing transparent. Self-assessment of admins are the rule, user ratings are extremely rare.

Everything monkey business!

And yet I’m doing really well as a GS Reaper lol.

now 3 builds only and tomorow 5 con rev vs 5 con rev all in a point without moving because os 25 stacks of torment each

Before HoT, there was a distinction between meta and non-meta builds. Non meta builds were working if the player was accustomed to them very well. And there were several different combinations according to the different playstyles of different people. Those different builds were working because it depend-ed on the skill lvl of the player.

Now some builds are immensely powerful. No matter how much you know your build, some builds/professions will falter when the skill gap is small. Elite specs destroyed the core specs in many ways. And with the expansion (and the patch before it) build variety became severely limited. Now it is “either have x in your team or lose” at some levels. Frankly I do not care, because I quit playing ranked with the latest changes. But for those friends who are trying to play and have fun, Anet must offer a compensation. Or they will learn that it is the community that runs the game, and without it there will be no “game”. Look at the other fallen games. It is the same road.

Silverkey.2078:

venusiano.8246:

You can remove bunker mesmer from the meta now. It’s gone. Congratulations, goal achieved.

I doubt it… I am mesmer main, playing bunker chrono since the first beta week-end, yet I am very happy with those changes.

Hmm after testing I have to say that you are actually right. My build was not bunker (but I was using shield + well of precog) and noticed that the nerf really affected my gameplay. So now I just switched to full bunker mesmer and I’m doing fine again. Seem like going full bunker is now the only option left for me.

style.6173:

Chip Skylark.2367:

Lol, metabattle does not speak for the meta, contrary to popular belief.

Rom’s druid build is amazing and definitely top tier.

Except in this case, it does speak to the meta. Really there are 3 top tier classes at this point: condi rev, bunker mesmer, and tempest. The best comp is 2 condi rev, 2 bunker mesmer, and 1 tempest.

Anything else is ok by an expert players, but those 3 are the core strengths.

Maaruder engi is better than a second bunker mesmer(prenerf), cause it adds damage and will still no die to anyone

Magira.6390:

Funny to see how some people who have secured a nice domain name, all make a fool. ^^

The listing there has no meaning, the Chrono has, for example, only two reviews, one of which is from the Admin itself.

Unpleasant reviews are deleted, as happened to my.

On the side is nothing transparent. Self-assessment of admins are the rule, user ratings are extremely rare.

Everything monkey business!

A few things 1.) Metabattle.com is endorsed by ArenaNet. Like it, love it, hate it, whatever it is the source for what is considered meta and what is not. 2.) These builds rise up through the ranks mostly (if not entirely) based on what we’re seeing on Twitch and meta generally comes from the most common (not exclusive, but most common) builds played by the Pros.

Most builds can have slight variations in mods and sometimes utility skills. Two players can run slightly different versions of the same “meta” build. I just switched Viper’s amulet for Wanderer’s on my Herald because I prefer a more tanks build.

I really hope the Scrapper gets scrapped next. Engineer is by far my favourite profession and I hate to see it in the state it is right now. The profession has been going downhill since the June patch. Burn stacking, RNG elites and 7 seconds of invulnerability (or evade for the puritans) were definitely no improvement over the celestial rifle build and the dominance of the Grenade Kit in general. Scrapper continued the downhill trend started in June.

Hammer weapon skills need to change. The cool downs need to go up, the damage down. Dealing damage while at the same time negating damage is just wrong. Even more so if the abilities provide additional utility (Leap Finisher). Adaptive Armour and Rapid Regeneration need some serious tweaks. Mass Momentum and Perfectly Weighted need to be brought up on par. The player should have to chose between offense and defence. Damaged modifiers and reduced weapon skill cool downs on one side. Sustain on the other side. Not everything in one well rounded package. The cool down on Sneak Gyro needs to be doubled at least.

Some core traits also need adjusting. The dominance of the Alchemy line is too extreme. It offers too much synergy compared to other options.

What baffles me the most though is the poor design of the new trait lines. Adaptive Armour is what Iron Blooded should have been. It would then also compete with HGH forcing a meaningful decision on the player. First destroying Backpack Regenerator and then replacing it with an equally passive ability (Rapid Regeneration) that does the very same thing further underlines the poor design choices. More AI skills (Gyros) to replace other utterly useless AI utilities (Turrets) seals the deal.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

A few things 1.) Metabattle.com is endorsed by ArenaNet. Like it, love it, hate it, whatever it is the source for what is considered meta and what is not. 2.) These builds rise up through the ranks mostly (if not entirely) based on what we’re seeing on Twitch and meta generally comes from the most common (not exclusive, but most common) builds played by the Pros.

How do you write correctly: There is a meta as it is played by VOIP Premades at tournaments. No more and no less.

For “normal” and especially for solo players, it has no meaning.

As an example: None of the meta build is good in Hot Join. There is therefore a different Meta. The same applies to unranked, and the lower leagues. Everywhere is another meta.

Only perhaps 1% of the players play in tournaments. So it’s a waste of time to deal with the Pro Meta if one is not pro. ^^

Unless of course you have a hierarchical worldview, then of course you always look upwards. But then a therapist would be more advisable.

Magira.6390:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

A few things 1.) Metabattle.com is endorsed by ArenaNet. Like it, love it, hate it, whatever it is the source for what is considered meta and what is not. 2.) These builds rise up through the ranks mostly (if not entirely) based on what we’re seeing on Twitch and meta generally comes from the most common (not exclusive, but most common) builds played by the Pros.

How do you write correctly: There is a meta as it is played by VOIP Premades at tournaments. No more and no less.

For “normal” and especially for solo players, it has no meaning.

As an example: None of the meta build is good in Hot Join. There is therefore a different Meta. The same applies to unranked, and the lower leagues. Everywhere is another meta.

Only perhaps 1% of the players play in tournaments. So it’s a waste of time to deal with the Pro Meta if one is not pro. ^^

Unless of course you have a hierarchical worldview, then of course you always look upwards. But then a therapist would be more advisable.

This, it’s hard to get people to understand it though. “Meta” builds by pro players are designed around teamplay. If you are soloQ or hotjoin or unkranked etc, you don’t have the luxury of calling for a cleanse, heal, cure, port, etc on voip. Builds need to be more self reliant in these situations, which for the most part metabattle builds are not.

dank.3680:

Magira.6390:

How do you write correctly: There is a meta as it is played by VOIP Premades at tournaments. No more and no less.

For “normal” and especially for solo players, it has no meaning.

As an example: None of the meta build is good in Hot Join. There is therefore a different Meta. The same applies to unranked, and the lower leagues. Everywhere is another meta.

Only perhaps 1% of the players play in tournaments. So it’s a waste of time to deal with the Pro Meta if one is not pro. ^^

Unless of course you have a hierarchical worldview, then of course you always look upwards. But then a therapist would be more advisable.

This, it’s hard to get people to understand it though. “Meta” builds by pro players are designed around teamplay. If you are soloQ or hotjoin or unkranked etc, you don’t have the luxury of calling for a cleanse, heal, cure, port, etc on voip. Builds need to be more self reliant in these situations, which for the most part metabattle builds are not.

+1

in general, a meta build is designed

• to be played with other meta builds
• to play against other meta builds
• to be played in a coordinated team
• to be played by a pro

if you don’t fulfill all those criterions, the build may not be best for you.

A typical example as stated is condition cleanse, which you will often need more than what meta builds take.

I agree which is why for lower tier and your everyday average player, the meta builds should really be used as a starting point or inspiration. You can then swap some stuff to suit your playstyle/team comp coordinated/uncoordinated, skill level etc.

the druids only been downgraded because the people using the build suck.

honestly that Druid Celestial avatar build can be Very effective when used properly but most people just camp Celeform and don’t leave or not use the pet while in celeform meaning no damage dealt ect , just much more than a Roid rage burst>heal system.

Whether the druids I encounter are bad or not I can’t say because I’ve not encountered one significantly better than the rest yet. I find them either squishy and fairly easy to kill once stone signet is done, or very healing-oriented in which case they don’t even have enough pressure to force me - a thief - off the point as long as the stolen healing seed doesn’t get interrupted.

I never thought they would make it in the meta because all they do is heal. Their damage comes from their pet, which is as it always has been - ridiculous for a tanky built player because the pet has its own stats. That’s the only good aspect. As a support role it lacks allied condi cleanse and boon support, making tempests, mesmers (until yesterday) and even support DH, in my opinion, better at performing the role. Furthermore, aside from healing, a druid’s survival comes from a high CD signet, and a lot of dazes which can of course be countered by a lot of stability of which engineers/scrappers, tempests and heralds have, and support dragonhunters can pump out to allies.

Another important point is splits. If you have a druid filling a support spot, it isn’t a full role on its own without the boon and condi cleanse support, meaning it needs another support or half-support built player with it to amount to one full support build plus. Two half supports is worse than one full support and something like a reaper, herald or daredevil, and also worse than two cele support team fighters. It’s fairly decent in 1v1, but it can’t decap a point or kill another tanky player like a tempest, making it even less effective - although more versatile - than the old decap engi.

After Anet nerfed the Fire line and Air lines for the elementalist bunker tempest is all that is left in terms of build variety. I really wished we could go back to the old zerk builds.

Agemnon.4608:

Why was druid pushed out? I find myself winning duels on the celestial avatar build (but modified for longbow and staff instead and traits are the same except I put in the pet skill causes weakness ability since I don’t use a greatsword except on guardian occasionally and he’s strictly PvE…for now) and can last awhile so long as I’m not focused and interrupted all the time.

Its just flavor, ROM has shown that he wins a heavy majority of 1 vs 1. Druid is in a good spot.

Nonsense! MetaBattle has some nice cookie-cutter builds that are a nice place to start, if you are not sure what to do. They more or less copy/paste builds used in tournaments and call it Meta.

Q: Are the builds shown the best possible?
A: Possibly, they are certainly very good.

Q: Is it possible to use other builds and be more successful?
A: Absolutely.

Remember, the MetaBattle admins are just going with the flow. It’s a good bet that the pros are using the best builds and compositions, but there is no telling how those builds will handle in the hands of a player with less mechanical knowledge, and random allies. There is a good chance, they will be ineffective in some situations.

I think its interesting when players alter their runes or ammy when shoutcasters go over their build.

But no ones ever uses Magi ammy. Not even for trolling purposes. Please give some love to Magi ammy.

What is that image of anyways? If it’s some sort of build website, I would take that with a grain of salt. Those are often just copy-pastas from certain profiled individuals who are actually decent players (e.g., those on good sPvP teams who compete in the tournaments), and serve to just get copied by those who can’t really fathom how to make their own builds. When a bunch of people who can’t make builds are voting on builds.. well.. you should be able to see where I’m going with that.