Current state of the meta.

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Posted by: Xeph.4513

Xeph.4513

The current state of the meta has never been worse than it is now, I have been having a very big problem getting a grasp on what Arena Net was thinking when this patch went live. I have been a very big advocate of Arena Net, but I can’t hold my tongue any longer when I see balancing taken into such a direction.
I however do understand the thought process behind what Arena Net is trying to do, I just believe they are taking things into a very bad direction.

Let us discuss what this game has come to.

Firstly I would like to talk about Necro, I do understand that this subject has been discussed a lot on the forums, but it still blows my mind that after stating many many times before that Arena Net doesn’t wish to do knee jerk balancing they decide to make Necros into a moving nuclear reactor of conditions.
There has been a lot of feedback on the forums regarding how Necro should be balanced and what they were missing, and that was survival and ability to disengage; a lot of necro players felt that this is what they needed, but instead of taking that approach Arena Net just threw more damage at them, effectively giving them every condition in the game and in abundance although they already had their own unique condition “Terror”.
The problem doesn’t only stop their but coupled with the improvements made to “Weakness” and “Blind”, this elevated Necro into being an unstoppable force.
Had Arena Net buffed blind, given Necro more ways to gain death shroud or a disengage it would have been perfectly fine, I think that most Necros would agree to that.
Instead Necro was given, Burn on crit, Torment on a new death shroud ability that also immobilizes the target as an aoe and with the new “Weakness” and “Blind”, it just made no sense, in fact if anything it just blew my mind, how a balancing team thought that this would be in anyway balanced.

If you thought that not giving them a disengage and increased survival, but piling on more damage would solve the problem, then your sorely mistaken, but because that sort of approach to balancing has made this game close to unplayable.

Let’s look at another example, thieves, previously thieves main issue was being able to sustain themselves in a fight, and remaining effective through out of the fight; instead of being one shot wonders that fell off after their combo was down.
Take a look at thieves in the current meta, s/d thieves have access to an astounding amount of evades and teleports, that the class its self has become mindless there is no repercussions for diving and little regard to coordination because they can port back at any time, if the thief is very well played it is extremely difficult to punish it.
It just doesn’t promote good play, when you know that you always have an out at the click of a button, and that it takes your opponent ten times more effort to take you down, then it did you just recklessly doing what you want.
Stealth, is another issue in this game and plays right into the same category, it’s just so difficult to punish, and there is no real other counter for stealth than another stealth, there is no intelligent play behind; it’s just a free “do what I want” card.
If there was a reveal mechanic or a way to counter it, then you would see a lot more intelligent play and thought process put behind stealthing, but at the current state of the game there just isn’t.

The current meta is for lack of better words complete and utter crap, the game has never been more un-enjoyable to play then it has been in the past 3 weeks .
Supporting team mates and actual intelligent play has been completely thrown out the window, and things have been degraded down to a condi spam meta, that doesn’t promote any sort of skill or team play.
Damage is so out of control currently, that by supporting a team mate you kitten yourself because regardless of your support, damage is so high he is going to go down anyway.
I miss the days when there was a thought process behind what you had to do, instead now it is a stealth insta gib condition infested meta, that is both un-enjoyable to play as it is to watch.
I hope that Arena Net listens to its players and looks at the current thread and remedies the current problems, because if it keeps going like this, I doubt there will be anyone left playing this game after Pax, because honestly I find no reason to continue playing a game that is meant to be a five vs five game, that promotes no kind of team play or team support.

I understand that a lot of people might disagree with what I have said here, but this is strictly how I view the problems in the game, I have personally discussed this with a lot of players and they feel the same way, I just hope that we can get some input regarding this matter from Arena Net, because this game has been on the decline.

Thank you.

Team Paradigm.
Xeph.

(edited by Xeph.4513)

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Posted by: Follidus.8027

Follidus.8027

I completely agree.

Cause I ain’t perfect, I never said I was.
But now they’re hating cause a brotha finally got some buzz
www.twitch.tv/Follidus – Team Absolute Legends

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Posted by: Phantaram.1265

Phantaram.1265

The slow and steady balancing part is also something that just blows my mind. What made them want to give necros SO much at once? Necros had practically sat there using the same exact build since the release and then one day BOOM. You have tons of new stuff. Not very slow and steady.

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Posted by: Reevz.2617

Reevz.2617

I think some sort of way to deal with stealth would be great, though obviously they would need to be careful about how they approach it as to not also shaft thieves.

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Posted by: Teldo.1473

Teldo.1473

I agree with Xeph’s post. The tournament gameplay has downgraded to something that is near hotjoin / soloqueue level.

In regards of stealth counterplay the best thing I could come up with would be allowing people to reveal enemies by just hitting them while they are in stealth, but this only works if someone is stealthed for longer than 3 seconds.

This would allow people who rely on stealths to get away still to use it as an escape.
At the same time this would make a counterplay possible to whole teams stealthing trying to instagib someone. With a change like that people would still be able to use stealth to surprise their enemy, but it will require some thought process behind it and people won’t be able to just mindlessly run around in stealth with 4 people oneshotting guardians anymore.

I like engineers!
www.twitch.tv/teldoo
www.youtube.com/teldo

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Posted by: Envy.1679

Envy.1679

The slow and steady balancing part is also something that just blows my mind. What made them want to give necros SO much at once? Necros had practically sat there using the same exact build since the release and then one day BOOM. You have tons of new stuff. Not very slow and steady.

they changed it so quickly because they wanted the upcoming tournament to be as balanced as they could, and they didnt want people to have to relearn every couple of weeks. so they changed it all at once to give peopel time to learn the balance before the tournament.

MARATHON CIV 5 DIFFICULTY 10 STILL GOING

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Posted by: Kebtiz.8370

Kebtiz.8370

Necro has been my favorite pvp class since I first picked it up last year. Even when people were going on about how weak they were, I had no trouble on necro compared to ranger and elementalist at the time. I have entirely avoided builds focusing on any of the greatly updated effects since 25th and people still swear and call my build OP.

I am not claiming to play at expert level or anything, and I don’t disagree with most of what OP said, but guilt by association hurts a lot of builds on a lot of classes, and necro updates and stealth are far from the only problems.

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Posted by: Xeph.4513

Xeph.4513

Necro has been my favorite pvp class since I first picked it up last year. Even when people were going on about how weak they were, I had no trouble on necro compared to ranger and elementalist at the time. I have entirely avoided builds focusing on any of the greatly updated effects since 25th and people still swear and call my build OP.

I am not claiming to play at expert level or anything, and I don’t disagree with most of what OP said, but guilt by association hurts a lot of builds on a lot of classes, and necro updates and stealth are far from the only problems.

yea, there is a lot more problems in the game currently, but I believe that those are probably some of the largest underlying problems.

Team Paradigm.
Xeph.

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Posted by: EoNxBoNx.9213

EoNxBoNx.9213

There is hardly a metagame with how much is constantly shifted, by the developers themselves. And this is because every month you have someone making forums posts about what is overpowered and so on.

I really don’t see how stealth is going to be nerfed/balanced without hurting thieves in an extremely harsh way. If they do find a way to do it, then great otherwise most of the ideas I have seen on these forums, the focal point have been to just hurt the thieves pov.

“You’re either a Noob or a Pro your entire life, that’s life”
IGN – Kinjax // World – Anvil Rock
IGN – InTheseDays // World – Anvil Rock

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

Something funny. Doing a 3v4 with two minon necros on a point and me on my engi (as i saw minion necros got no meaningful sources of love in the last patch). A mesmer on the other team claimed “Gotta love the FOTM necros on your team”
Response “Except they aren’t running 30/30/10/0/0?”
“Then where did all the burning come from?”
“Fighting an engi?”
“silence”
I know necros are OP as all “kitten” right now but that is mainly one build which can insta nuke an entire point, plus the way that terror works in it’s current form it does damage that is way beyond what other non-damaging to damage dealing traits are. Aside from that necros trying to run the non-fotm build are still fighting an uphill battle.

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

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Posted by: Kebtiz.8370

Kebtiz.8370

My defensive/CC/wells necro that gets called OP quite often was designed for the sole purpose of dealing with spam turret engies and spirit rangers, if that says anything about cause and effect.

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Posted by: RaZaC.1963

RaZaC.1963

I cant but agree with you Xeph and hope the developers of this game and see this post and realize how incredibly bad the current state of the game is in regards to balance. There are teams previously unknown off, that jumped up since the new patch by simply abusing the meta and do not in any regards have their high rank because they are a strong team and play the game very well.

I’d say that if the games balance is not rapidly cured to a playable state again I cant but agree with Xeph that allot of people wont continue playing this game on a competitive level.

Things that need fixing ASAP BEFORE PAX:

  • Necromancer;
  • S/D Thief;
  • Poison (currently does not affect heals/rez);
  • Weakness (critical attacks are registered as normal attacks and then get reduced by 50%)
  • (suggestion) cc as a counter to stealth?

There maybe are more things that need changing but these are the problems that hurt me and my team on a daily basis when we are playing.

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Posted by: Kebtiz.8370

Kebtiz.8370

There are teams previously unknown off, that jumped up since the new patch by simply abusing the meta and do not in any regards have their high rank because they are a strong team and play the game very well.

You mean like the team I saw the other day that is 2 30/30/10 necros and 2 spirit rangers?

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Posted by: SteppenWolf.8136

SteppenWolf.8136

Soo, as I am not nearly playing as much as most guys that have anwsered, let me try to approach from a casters point of view.

When I started casting GuildWars 2 you actually could cast most of what is going on especially when you start noticing little moves by members of a team to prepare a burst. Today… well. We had two spirit rangers two necromancers and a guardian. Disregarding the amount of effects people were just staying back and throwing things at each other not even trying to really engage. (Guardians batteling on point)

This doesnt result in an all out battle but more like a shifting line of territory. This include that it is not rewarding to take risks!
A thief can jump in and out —> No Risk
Necros spam their marks from 1200 range-→ No Risk
Warrior want to deal AOE damage —>Dead because they had to move in. This should be rewarding if done correctly

To fix that first of all the mistakes mentioned above need to be fixed. Not only by broken mechanics but by rewarding plays.

Max stealth duration could be 4 seconds —> If you can make something happen you played somewhat well
Reduce the area marks can hit + give them a “duration” —> People cant spam anymore because they need to focus someone(which would require skill) and you can move around them since they arent covering the whole point and disappearing after 10(?) seconds.

In general we should be careful about buffing anything right now. There is to much of everything and things should be tuned down.

Steppe

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Posted by: Xeph.4513

Xeph.4513

Soo, as I am not nearly playing as much as most guys that have anwsered, let me try to approach from a casters point of view.

When I started casting GuildWars 2 you actually could cast most of what is going on especially when you start noticing little moves by members of a team to prepare a burst. Today… well. We had two spirit rangers two necromancers and a guardian. Disregarding the amount of effects people were just staying back and throwing things at each other not even trying to really engage. (Guardians batteling on point)

This doesnt result in an all out battle but more like a shifting line of territory. This include that it is not rewarding to take risks!
A thief can jump in and out —> No Risk
Necros spam their marks from 1200 range--> No Risk
Warrior want to deal AOE damage —>Dead because they had to move in. This should be rewarding if done correctly

To fix that first of all the mistakes mentioned above need to be fixed. Not only by broken mechanics but by rewarding plays.

Max stealth duration could be 4 seconds —> If you can make something happen you played somewhat well
Reduce the area marks can hit + give them a “duration” --> People cant spam anymore because they need to focus someone(which would require skill) and you can move around them since they arent covering the whole point and disappearing after 10(?) seconds.

In general we should be careful about buffing anything right now. There is to much of everything and things should be tuned down.

Steppe

quoted for truth.
+1

Team Paradigm.
Xeph.

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Posted by: Henqquli.5078

Henqquli.5078

Agree with you Xeph.
Necro + SD thief meta is just horrible. They need to get toned down a lot.

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Posted by: milo.6942

milo.6942

why has aoe not been toned down drastically since launch?
the first question a dev asks himself is “how does this affect pve players?”
the second question he asks himself is “should we split this skill for pvp?”
after taking a look at how many things need to change for pvp, he then asks himself “would a pve player like to step into HotM with all his skills doing different things?”

with that last question, he realizes that he can’t properly fix pvp because it would require too many changes, and so alienate their main demographic.

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

Preach brother.

The necro state is mind-boggling.
At the cost of getting shot if someone from Anet sees this please remove the RNG from weakness. 6 glances in a row is enough for me to get vexed. If you’re going to remove my damage, a flat reduction please.

Can’t even tell if something really may be viable because Necro’s are such a heavy deterrence.

The great forum duppy.

(edited by ensoriki.5789)

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Posted by: Stof.9584

Stof.9584

Agreed. Definitely think the pattern of balancing shows Arena Net wants to diversify, but currently it goes no further than introducing new gimmicks.

Necromancer is an abomination. Too many new elements have changed their position in the meta entirely and the entire meta with it. Completely imbalanced.
I want to refer to pre-patch ‘State of the Necro’ thread which is filled with ways that focused on the Necromancer’s weak points instead of amplifying its existing strengths.

There have always been multiple ways to build and play a Necro, but they were all subpar. Now the new Terror (30/30/10/0/0) build is performing far above average.

S/D thief is similar in the sense that an underused set started to dominate, because of an untested addition.
I still don’t agree this build has too many dodges (30 trait point investment), but the shadowstep is still too good. Increase initiative cost and decrease damage!
S/D would be excellent as a support utility build to steal boons and pin down priority targets, but it now carries on its own.

Stealth is difficult to balance, but I think this game does it very well. It has remained fairly unique and makes Thief a valuable addition to any team.
It is only an issue in highly organised play, though. I’d say they would do more bad than good by trying to fix it.
Perhaps a Thief’s allies shouldn’t ‘Stealth’, but ‘Hide in Shadows’ making it unstackable on allies? (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hide_in_Shadows_)

We should expect balance to fluctuate and bring variety in builds. This has been achieved, but now balance has shifted out of the player’s reach. Unless you play a Meta strategy you will lose.

Desolation EU – Necromancer / Thief
Top 100 Solo Q for a full minute

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

And now we’re trying to smash S/P more in the face for the sake of S/D? Like wot.

This set came into glory same way as Necro’s. An update gone too far, that fed the set hard. Literally because of a slot 3 adjustment we’ve now raised the cost of the skill, removed the stun break, changed the range, presumably we’ll soon end up hitting the vigor a thief has, maybe even their dodge return trait, quick pockets, Lyssa runes, etc.
If you don’t think it’s the amount of dodge then the obvious other place to look is what made it come to prominence in the first place.

The great forum duppy.

(edited by ensoriki.5789)

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Posted by: jmatb.6307

jmatb.6307

PvP is not ever going to be remotely similar to PvE.

This is the truth that all MMOs must realize. Human players make entirely different decisions than AIs with barely any of the last letter.

Anybody who queues up into PvP needs to know that it is different from the beginning. This is what Anet had to realize in GW and will eventually realize in GW2.

You don’t babysit players to get competitive play. You push them to be better and they rise to the challenge…

- Passive bonus traits and utilities are babysitting. Set and forget needs to go. When a Spirit Ranger isn’t using any utilities at all and competing with a D/D ele that is working their butt off, using snares, switching to fire attunement when they can get a burning speed window, and loses while they are not using cooldowns its complete garbage.

- Damaging AoE on short cooldowns is also garbage. AoE ought to be about combo fields and having your team execute them not spamming damage on multiple people, which is always more effective than skillful single target focus fire. This would immediately improve the skill level of PvP overnight.

- Vitality needs to be of use as an attribute. It’s supposed to be our hedge against conditions, but the attribute just barely keeps you alive a couple seconds longer. Maybe Vit can reduce incoming condi dmg. Maybe it can reduce duration. Anything is better than just raising health and sacrificing Healing, Toughness, and offensive attributes that kill faster or extend the fight.

- Traits that give % boosts to cooldowns, damage, are always going to be better than active benefits. That’s why they need to be removed and replaced with more active choices like Improvisation or Cleansing Ire. I’m all for trimming the fat on traits, especially in PvP. I’d rather have a few awesome choices that have tradeoffs than a giant mess of useless junk.

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Posted by: Heizero.9183

Heizero.9183

I Don’t even think the necro damage is the problem. It is the AoE spam. the fact that they can constantly put down full dps on an entire point for extended periods of time with consistent chill and weakness. I think the AoE radius or cooldowns need to be toned down. maybe even change some of the marks completely so that you can’t toss on every condi in the game through a single AoE spam.

Commander Unyielding Shadow – Human Thief
Champion Shadow
Better Luck Next Time [BLNT]-Sea of Sorrows

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Posted by: Velron.3729

Velron.3729

“- Passive bonus traits and utilities are babysitting. Set and forget needs to go. When a Spirit Ranger isn’t using any utilities at all and competing with a D/D ele that is working their butt off, using snares, switching to fire attunement when they can get a burning speed window, and loses while they are not using cooldowns its complete garbage.”

Seriously playing a profession like Ele or Engi and losing to a spirit Ranger is one of the worst feelings because you know they just sat there like “lulz he’s trying so hard this SO EZ!”

Fragg – Engineer | Lil Zek – Warrior PVP R43
[DA] Decisive Actions – Jade Quarry

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Posted by: jmatb.6307

jmatb.6307

Ya and some of the kitteny ones troll you after that and I have to admit I snap at them. I want to see those guys on a thief and spawn camp them when they troll on an EZ mode spec.

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

Imo spirit ranger wouldn’t be much of anything is melee wasn’t discouraged so much by all the opposition it faces outside of that ranger. You can cleave spirits easily to turn a Spirit ranger into a handi-capped ranger but then you go mid or a necro pops up or anything alone those lines and now you’re melee choice has to wade into aoe territory that it likely wont come back from. That or be poorly matched up against all the other crap in this game.

The great forum duppy.

(edited by ensoriki.5789)

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Posted by: Ultima.8673

Ultima.8673

yea.. the nuclear reactor of condis killed my team..
mim still recruits new member qq

but to the topic:
necro, s/dthief, engi, stealth (maybe a classskill on ranger/or other class which makes stealth visible..) should be changed and i wan see more variations! roamers supportclasses, bunkers (before the patch there was healing, rezzing..) maybe decrease the overalldps of all classes a bit! . or a lil bit more health!… a meta which is: stealth 3 2 1 GG condispam is boring. i dont wan see short fights… i wan suspense not 3 2 1 it is over…

i like the spiritsranger design ! and i wan my bunkerele back qq
it is a shame if u see a class pressing the 3-button only and become supereffective. this reminds me on tekken. NO. imo tekken’s buttonsmashing has more skill by playing hwoarang or eddy than sdthief ….

i feel so angry about the balancing team that they should fire the guy who made the proposal to give necro dhuumfire and so many other buffs….

(edited by Ultima.8673)

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Posted by: tiko.9206

tiko.9206

+1
If they would look at the current meta like they look at the maps, the whole pvp system would be “out of tournament rotation”

I Am Elementalist – Ele for [CroW] – tPvP

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Posted by: Volrath.1473

Volrath.1473

I made a very similar thread 2-3 weeks ago and got flamed cuz it was “too soon” after the patch and players would adapt to this new meta.

well guess what?! I was right…

PS. This was my thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Worse-Meta-EVER

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Posted by: Ultima.8673

Ultima.8673

I made a very similar thread 2-3 weeks ago and got flamed cuz it was “too soon” after the patch and players would adapt to this new meta.

well guess what?! I was right…

PS. This was my thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Worse-Meta-EVER

in the past i knew from many necrofriends posi, moa and others that the patch will be ridicilous overpowered…

(edited by Ultima.8673)

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Posted by: jmatb.6307

jmatb.6307

I think the best place to start is to take this whole 4 different team strategy with living world and apply it to balancing.

PvE players scream from the rooftops about Warriors being OP for dungeons. WvW encourages mass group play. PvP, i think, ought to be about single target play with combo fields from AoE that you execute finishers in for that extra boost.

If the game is balanced by people dedicated to that side of the game, then it will make more sense to people who play it more often, especially now that PvP is becoming bigger.

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Posted by: Bsgapollo.5364

Bsgapollo.5364

Can’t really tell more specificly what’s wrong in the game then this. Even though some players mentioned this in the past. It sometimes takes a “higher” voice before Anet listens. Let’s see if they do something with this information.

Level 80 Elementalist, experienced player in pvp, trying out pve for now.

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Posted by: Volrath.1473

Volrath.1473

PvP is becoming bigger but to a restricted group of people… The causal players and the solo queuers like myself are playing less and less due to the frustration the current meta provides, ppl play to have fun! If you play a game that frustrates you over and over again you simply stop playing it and go play an actual FUN game!
it’s what I’m doing right now… I intend to come back but only when this game becomes once again fun to play…

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Posted by: QtHman.6502

QtHman.6502

I completely agree with Xeph this is the worst meta that i have seen in Gw2 since it was release last year. In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.

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Posted by: Alugjen Darlas.5329

Alugjen Darlas.5329

The necromancer is probably the frankestein of 2013-14 gz to Anet Oscar to em !.
Aside the jokes , i like the necro class, i feel like when the necro comunity ask for something , like Stability ,vigor ,blink skill ‘’for god sake anet , blink skill 2nd skill DS’‘,they come out with ’’nuclear reactor ‘’.I dunno if they rly listen , but from what i can see they take take the TNT (the feedback) and Transmute it in the ’’ nuclear reactor ‘’ .I rly hope that in the next sotg someone with some kitten ,grabs his mic and ask this question ’’Wtf are u doing’’.

[SC]Nine Inch Nose -205 Precurssors .

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Posted by: Ultima.8673

Ultima.8673

DELAY PAXTOURNEY TILL GAME IS FIXED /ENJOYABLE/BALANCED !

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Posted by: Alugjen Darlas.5329

Alugjen Darlas.5329

DELAY PAXTOURNEY TILL GAME IS FIXED /ENJOYABLE/BALANCED !

they will neva do that is like they admit they are doing a terribole job.

[SC]Nine Inch Nose -205 Precurssors .

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Posted by: QtHman.6502

QtHman.6502

It really sucks that PAX PRIME is coming soon and we will still have all these broken builds…..biggest joke 2013-2014-2015

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Posted by: Alugjen Darlas.5329

Alugjen Darlas.5329

I really want to see the dude who is gonna showcast the tourney ,‘’ Here we go , Team Lolo ,they are going for the kill they want the guardian dead [Nuke condi ,aoe , effects spam, flying quaggans] em…ye the guardian died instantly , that was a good spike !’’ Make this happen pls !!!

[SC]Nine Inch Nose -205 Precurssors .

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Posted by: Siric.3589

Siric.3589

  • Poison (currently does not affect heals/rez);

Fix this for the love of god.

[LR] Siric

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Posted by: Ixl Super Ixl.7258

Ixl Super Ixl.7258

Lol saw this coming. on a side note
Can’t believe you didn’t mention spirit rangers. They can bunker almost as good as guardians and they deal insane amount of damage. Necros need a big nerf and ANET knows it. S/D thief is not OP. if you can’t deal with S/D than you are just bad. S/D thief already got a nerf last patch they shouldn’t change it. I’v played against many S/D thiefs as engineer and i never had any trouble against any of them apart from the lady nag nag. if you are basing your statement about thief’s on specific individuals than your out of your mind. It’s like saying engi’s are OP just because teldo kills everyone 1v1. I do believe it is slightly OP just like bomb kit engi but it should never get a nerf. Also warriors and mesmers need a big buff because they bloody suck at the moment.
guardians / engi/ ele are the most balanced professions.

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Posted by: Dirame.8521

Dirame.8521

Get a Warrior if you want to kill a Necro. In other news, Stunlocking/Infinite Adrenaline is OP.

I make guides to builds you may not have heard of;
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Posted by: Velron.3729

Velron.3729

Get a Warrior if you want to kill a Necro. In other news, Stunlocking/Infinite Adrenaline is OP.

I love stunlocking fotm Necros.

It can definitely be countered, I don’t want to really help give any tips though. I’m enjoying smashing all the Necros, they need it.

Fragg – Engineer | Lil Zek – Warrior PVP R43
[DA] Decisive Actions – Jade Quarry

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Posted by: Kavia.8249

Kavia.8249

I agree with Xeph’s post. The tournament gameplay has downgraded to something that is near hotjoin / soloqueue level.

In regards of stealth counterplay the best thing I could come up with would be allowing people to reveal enemies by just hitting them while they are in stealth, but this only works if someone is stealthed for longer than 3 seconds.

This would allow people who rely on stealths to get away still to use it as an escape.
At the same time this would make a counterplay possible to whole teams stealthing trying to instagib someone. With a change like that people would still be able to use stealth to surprise their enemy, but it will require some thought process behind it and people won’t be able to just mindlessly run around in stealth with 4 people oneshotting guardians anymore.

I think this or something like it is a great idea. If a team knows a stealth play is coming through good scouting or game sense, they can actually do something about it.

Another alternative, similar to this is not having the stealth break but just show damage floaters so that if you are attacking the air and hit something you can get an idea of the enemy position. You could also do some cool shimmery translucent effect for like 1/4 second if you hit someone in stealth where you see them temporarily. This would help to prevent breaking the utility of things like shadow refuge and mass invis when used for an individual utility or escape, but also give teams the option of countering team stealth plays. I think this is a good idea because it increases skill cap, because it would require manual aiming of some skills. The other great thing about these ideas is it would not affect PvE at all because NPCs don’t shoot the air and watch for damage floaters.

Kavia Kael
Champion Illusionist
Stormbluff Isle

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Posted by: Ultima.8673

Ultima.8673

Lol saw this coming. on a side note
Can’t believe you didn’t mention spirit rangers. They can bunker almost as good as guardians and they deal insane amount of damage. Necros need a big nerf and ANET knows it. S/D thief is not OP. if you can’t deal with S/D than you are just bad. S/D thief already got a nerf last patch they shouldn’t change it. I’v played against many S/D thiefs as engineer and i never had any trouble against any of them apart from the lady nag nag. if you are basing your statement about thief’s on specific individuals than your out of your mind. It’s like saying engi’s are OP just because teldo kills everyone 1v1. I do believe it is slightly OP just like bomb kit engi but it should never get a nerf. Also warriors and mesmers need a big buff because they bloody suck at the moment.
guardians / engi/ ele are the most balanced professions.

yea sure…. sdthief and engi is op! the same like my bunkerele was before all the elenerfpatches. i beat all classes easily in a 1v1 or could hold , disengage easily… (mesmer, engi, thiefs………) in the past ele was godtier… now things changed and i am not a stupid player. this is mainly a nodemodegame… u split ur teammates mostly…. engi is brilliant for it…(replaced my role as bunkerele, more dps, more ranged cc, self-teamrez, super synergy with necro, bigger healthpool, perma swiftness & vigor, super 1v1 potential..)

DESTROY THE DEADLY TRIANGLE NECRO, ENGI, SDTHIEF i wan see variations warrior d/d, d/pthiefs, mesmers, rangers….

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Posted by: candlecan.9827

candlecan.9827

I want to chime in and say that this has been my exact feelings towards the game since the patch. My enjoyment of tPvP is at an all time low (and for good reason). Since release, A-Net has stuck with the “no whack-a-mole” approach to balance and continually stated the dangers of large changes affecting the game for the worse. Then this happens…

I understand that balance is a living breathing entity that is going to change and go through growing pains. I am usually the last to complain about it. This change was a mistake though and I would actually prefer it to be reverted. It sounds extreme but if you break a program, its usually better to work off an older saved version that works than it is to go forward trying to fix the broken version. Just my opinion

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Posted by: Kavia.8249

Kavia.8249

Oh, and another idea for a stealth reveal mechanic would be to make light fields reveal opponents. Has counterplay because enemy could always run around the field, but if you had good game sense and placed the light field effectively you could reveal whole teams. Light fields are available to a good spread of classes, about half of them, and the guardian has plentiful light fields which addresses the guardian stealth gank in particular.

Could also make it so it doesn’t reveal opponents completely but maybe just they become visible while in the light field (returning to stealth when they leave it).

Kavia Kael
Champion Illusionist
Stormbluff Isle

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Posted by: RaZaC.1963

RaZaC.1963

Lol saw this coming. on a side note
Can’t believe you didn’t mention spirit rangers. They can bunker almost as good as guardians and they deal insane amount of damage. Necros need a big nerf and ANET knows it. S/D thief is not OP. if you can’t deal with S/D than you are just bad. S/D thief already got a nerf last patch they shouldn’t change it. I’v played against many S/D thiefs as engineer and i never had any trouble against any of them apart from the lady nag nag. if you are basing your statement about thief’s on specific individuals than your out of your mind. It’s like saying engi’s are OP just because teldo kills everyone 1v1. I do believe it is slightly OP just like bomb kit engi but it should never get a nerf. Also warriors and mesmers need a big buff because they bloody suck at the moment.
guardians / engi/ ele are the most balanced professions.

This is one of the teams that I was talking about in my previous post, defending s/d thief and this high on the leader boards mind=blown
Spirit rangers are strong yes but nothing compared to the level of imbecileness of s/d thiefs.

And Mesmers do not suck they are simply blanked out by the Necromancer and the s/d Thief when those would be nerfed/toned down the (GS)Mesmer would surely be viable again.

On a note regarding your comment on beating S/D thiefs with engineer, yes if played without mistakes the engie should win. The problem is though that if an engineer would make an mistake they are done for. S/D thiefs are very hard to punish for reckless play/mistakes as stated before in the OP.

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Posted by: MarkPhilips.5169

MarkPhilips.5169

Agree with everything.

Basically i see these big problems.

- Necro ultimate nuclear conditions bomb
- chain evade on skills with vigor up
- long stealth duration through shadow refuge or smoke bomb field with 4-5 blast

And one more thing….eliminate MOA and replace it with an always strong elite (but less lamer) with conditions removal and other stuff with max 90sec. cd.

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Posted by: Jumper.9482

Jumper.9482

Problem is they’re fixing things that aren’t broken.
For Necro, they weren’t working because 0 disengage.
The fix? Just double their damage.

Thief?
Oh, we see S/D is a viable yet rarely played set so we took a third of your daze duration away. We also added 1 more second till you could stealth again, drastically affecting your daze upkeep even further. Also we cut your dagger offhand damage by 50% and 33% respectively. Oh and about half a year ago we broke Runes of the Mesmer and Sigil of Paralyzation for Tactical Strike and haven’t fixed it.
A couple months later…
dev1:“Hmm I wonder why S/D isn’t played anymore”
dev2:“Well it sure isn’t dancing dagger and cloak and dagger. I mean look at how many people take D/D over D/P and the advantages it brings.”
dev1:“My god, you’re right! Let’s just superbuff their #3 ability! We’ll make it their primary utility, defense, as well as dps!”
dev2:“That was sarcasm…” facepalm
dev1:“Too late! Done!”

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Posted by: Fjandi.2516

Fjandi.2516

I believe necros reflect the main problem in this game, aoe spamming. They are probably the best at that. The more i play this game the more it seems fights on points are just about spamming aoe condi around. It’s too late to fix this imo, there are way too many aoe skills, they should rework basically all the classes, this is not gonna happen. While designing this game they focused too much on what looked c00l and way too little on what looked balanced.
Anyway the necro buff doesn’t seem so huge to me. It was most likely not needed at all. They listened way too much to forum complaints. Necro were considered weak while they probably were not. Like bm rangers were considered a joke until suddently someone realized they were not that bad. Same for the new fotm spirits build.
But hey i still remember the devs said they base their balance work on forum qq so…
Essentially, what is going to happen now is that they are going to overnerf some specs making them totally useless (instead of reversing the mistakes they made). The game is going to remain the same, still unbalanced but probably in a different way.
Imo the warrior is the only good designed class in this game, that’s why is considered so weak compared to others.
On a side note good post Xeph, tbh i like how you always discuss in a polite and unbiased way. I really hope anet guys will listen to this thread.