Guild Wars 2

DiogoSilva.7089:

Making all AoE have a delay, like Dragon’s Tooth and Lava Font, would greatly improve GW2’s pvp without having much of an impact in pve at all. (Yes, more changes would be needed, but that’s not my point).

Making dodges less spammable, by toning down vigor and sigil of energy, would greatly improve GW2’s pvp (and interact nicely with the aoe change above) AND be a good step in the right direction to improve the horrible pve zerk-and-dodge meta.

Making less passive traits and more active damage-control-support trinity enhancing traits would improve class skill requirement and teamplay depth across ALL formats of the game.

GW2’s pvp can be improved without coming at the cost of pve – quite the opposite, actually. It’s all up to Anet and how they chose to design and balance their game.

Agreed.

I am concerned with things like spirits, turrets, etc , should aoe be reduced. However reduced aoe could be coupled with reduced health to these ai mechanics

Lordrosicky.5813:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Making all AoE have a delay, like Dragon’s Tooth and Lava Font, would greatly improve GW2’s pvp without having much of an impact in pve at all. (Yes, more changes would be needed, but that’s not my point).

Making dodges less spammable, by toning down vigor and sigil of energy, would greatly improve GW2’s pvp (and interact nicely with the aoe change above) AND be a good step in the right direction to improve the horrible pve zerk-and-dodge meta.

Making less passive traits and more active damage-control-support trinity enhancing traits would improve class skill requirement and teamplay depth across ALL formats of the game.

GW2’s pvp can be improved without coming at the cost of pve – quite the opposite, actually. It’s all up to Anet and how they chose to design and balance their game.

Agreed.

I am concerned with things like spirits, turrets, etc , should aoe be reduced. However reduced aoe could be coupled with reduced health to these ai mechanics

Good point there. However turrets should remain the same, as they cannot… dodge.

Would the delay mechanics from Dragon’s Tooth and Lava Font make pet mechanics any stronger? None of them can dodge, can they?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The AoE-Stability is what is making the guardian superior to other bunker-speccs. An ele can also provide condition-cleanse, even more heal and shares-boons. However, these 6 seconds of stability are so important, many ppl don’t realize it. It’s 6 seconds during your whole team is not affected by CC. Where we have pulls, fears, knocks etc. this AoE-Stability is a big aspect, why you actually can win a teamfight.

I figured as much. But the other part of the question was whether guardians need to be brought down or other professions brought up to match the capabilities of bunker guardians.

Exedore.6320:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The AoE-Stability is what is making the guardian superior to other bunker-speccs. An ele can also provide condition-cleanse, even more heal and shares-boons. However, these 6 seconds of stability are so important, many ppl don’t realize it. It’s 6 seconds during your whole team is not affected by CC. Where we have pulls, fears, knocks etc. this AoE-Stability is a big aspect, why you actually can win a teamfight.

I figured as much. But the other part of the question was whether guardians need to be brought down or other professions brought up to match the capabilities of bunker guardians.

I personally find “Stand Your Ground!” to be too strong. Why do other professions have their stability skills under high cooldown (Spectral Armor, Armor of Earth), while Guardians get an aoe version for half the cooldown? It’s twice or thrice as powerful in more than a single way.

Exedore.6320:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The AoE-Stability is what is making the guardian superior to other bunker-speccs. An ele can also provide condition-cleanse, even more heal and shares-boons. However, these 6 seconds of stability are so important, many ppl don’t realize it. It’s 6 seconds during your whole team is not affected by CC. Where we have pulls, fears, knocks etc. this AoE-Stability is a big aspect, why you actually can win a teamfight.

I figured as much. But the other part of the question was whether guardians need to be brought down or other professions brought up to match the capabilities of bunker guardians.

I doubt guardians need some nerf, as they have “bad mobility” and not the best bunker-abilities. Many ppl forget their main-role is to “support” the team. After that they’re dedicated bunkers. We mostly use Save yourselfs or centuary or other skillz when we see our team needs conditon cleanse or a rezz. They’re also not godmode in 1v1’s.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I doubt guardians need some nerf, as they have “bad mobility” and not the best bunker-abilities. Many ppl forget their main-role is to “support” the team. After that they’re dedicated bunkers. We mostly use Save yourselfs or centuary or other skillz when we see our team needs conditon cleanse or a rezz. They’re also not godmode in 1v1’s.

Isn’t it a little too much to put under the same class both team support AND great bunkering abilities?

stof.9341:

Isn’t it a little too much to put under the same class both team support AND great bunkering abilities?

It is, but that’s GW2 for you.

Lordrosicky.5813:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Making all AoE have a delay, like Dragon’s Tooth and Lava Font, would greatly improve GW2’s pvp without having much of an impact in pve at all. (Yes, more changes would be needed, but that’s not my point).

Making dodges less spammable, by toning down vigor and sigil of energy, would greatly improve GW2’s pvp (and interact nicely with the aoe change above) AND be a good step in the right direction to improve the horrible pve zerk-and-dodge meta.

Making less passive traits and more active damage-control-support trinity enhancing traits would improve class skill requirement and teamplay depth across ALL formats of the game.

GW2’s pvp can be improved without coming at the cost of pve – quite the opposite, actually. It’s all up to Anet and how they chose to design and balance their game.

Agreed.

I am concerned with things like spirits, TURRETS, etc , should aoe be reduced. However reduced aoe could be COUPLED WITH REDUCED HEALTH to these ai mechanics

have you ever actually focus fired on a turret before? it takes less effort to kill a turret than it does a critter in PvE. most people don’t target them though, because a single aoe pulse from a dmg class destroys them. even supply crate.

People don’t target pets in this game because they’ll get killed by doing so. Simple. While you target the engineer’s turrets one by one, he is spamming aoe conditions at a safe spot. While you target mesmer’s illusions, the mesmer is bursting you pretty hard while spamming new clones. You don’t counter pets in this game by targetting them. You counter pets in this game by ignoring them and dpsing their owner as fast as possible, unless you can spam aoe around you, of course.

However, these 6 seconds of stability are so important, many ppl don’t realize it. It’s 6 seconds during your whole team is not affected by CC. Where we have pulls, fears, knocks etc. this AoE-Stability is a big aspect, why you actually can win a teamfight.

Agreed. Stability is also an important aspect of stomping at times, which is practically the aim of every fight whether its 1 v 1 or team.

In regards to the OP, he makes excellent points on the current meta. It seems the only difference between high level play and below is ‘being in the right place at the right time’. Everything else that is involved with combat is too forgiving – too much reward for too little risk for certain builds/classes with the right weapon/utility combinations.

This is a game where the pace is almost at the same level as a FPS. If this is the pace the developers want it to be, they need to make sure that mechanics such as stealth and condition damage stay in check. At the moment it is quiet out of control and possibly getting worst with each balance update. There needs to be ways to manage condition damage better and ways to detect/avoid stealth.

Theres tons of great suggestions in this thread, I really do hope the developers take some time to go over it and consider what the game has become. Pure melee builds in this game is just too dangerous to be effective unless you have a whole team catering to your needs. Someone should not also be able to sit back and just spam aoe’s from a safe distance and do enough damage to take out everyone in its radius. The max range of certain attacks/utility in this game is too rewarding for certain classes.

Heres my hopes for how the game will eventually change -

- Promote pure melee builds somehow. If it means decreasing the 1200 max range of certain weapons/skills do it.
- Definitely without question tone down aoe damage. The mindless aoe spams is just too forgiving.
- Deal with the out of control condition damage. Maybe split conditions that do damage with those that just apply effects and make that a different group of conditions. This way when you actually remove conditions you are removing the burns,torments and bleeds. Maybe change stability to remove non damaging conditions.

You guys basically want 8 professions that are the same with different skill names.

DanzelOPP.5068:

Agreed. Necro went from zero to hero pretty fast for a game that claims “small metered changes” are part of the balancing philosophy. There was no reason for the magnitude of changes for this class.
I also agree that stealth is a definite issue but I also can’t see a clear way to tone it down without hurting thieves. I would say a knockdown or something in the like should reveal them and not allow them to stealth for a certain amount of time. I would say that necros are the biggest issue at this point.

Mesmers, rangers, and engineers, Elementalists, Necromancers, Thieves and gurdians have plenty on condition removal. The only class lacking the ability to fully counter conditions are warriors.

Psychogene.6780:

Theres tons of great suggestions in this thread, I really do hope the developers take some time to go over it and consider what the game has become. Pure melee builds in this game is just too dangerous to be effective unless you have a whole team catering to your needs. Someone should not also be able to sit back and just spam aoe’s from a safe distance and do enough damage to take out everyone in its radius. The max range of certain attacks/utility in this game is too rewarding for certain classes.

+1, I agree completely.

I think a lot of the debate in this thread stems from the disparity between active and passive play, and how ANet has failed to balance the two. As the OP and many posters have pointed out, the current state of the game includes some elements that are simply too powerful for the effort needed to pull them off, such as the abundance of ranged AoE condition spam (Necro), or high-uptime passive buffs coupled with evasion (Ranger). What makes these mechanics worse is that they are currently very effective in addition to being easy to pull off. By contrast, a profession like warrior needs to work very hard both in terms of mechanical skill and situational awareness to achieve even a fraction of the same efficiency. Skill floors, risk vs. reward and profession viability are currently all over the place, which is not exactly an ideal situation for a competitive game.

I could be wrong, but I’d like to think that most people drawn to GW2 PvP are here because of the promise of active play where skill plays a significant role – with feints, coordinated spike setups and the opportunity for counter play. The current meta favours ranged AoE condition nuking far too much to promote that type of play. I sincerely hope ANet decides to tone down AoE across the board and then gradually shifts the game’s mechanics away from passive buffs and one-button wonders to accommodate a more back-and-forth type of meta.

Aereniel.7356:

Psychogene.6780:

Theres tons of great suggestions in this thread, I really do hope the developers take some time to go over it and consider what the game has become. Pure melee builds in this game is just too dangerous to be effective unless you have a whole team catering to your needs. Someone should not also be able to sit back and just spam aoe’s from a safe distance and do enough damage to take out everyone in its radius. The max range of certain attacks/utility in this game is too rewarding for certain classes.

+1, I agree completely.

I think a lot of the debate in this thread stems from the disparity between active and passive play, and how ANet has failed to balance the two. As the OP and many posters have pointed out, the current state of the game includes some elements that are simply too powerful for the effort needed to pull them off, such as the abundance of ranged AoE condition spam (Necro), or high-uptime passive buffs coupled with evasion (Ranger). What makes these mechanics worse is that they are currently very effective in addition to being easy to pull off. By contrast, a profession like warrior needs to work very hard both in terms of mechanical skill and situational awareness to achieve even a fraction of the same efficiency. Skill floors, risk vs. reward and profession viability are currently all over the place, which is not exactly an ideal situation for a competitive game.

I could be wrong, but I’d like to think that most people drawn to GW2 PvP are here because of the promise of active play where skill plays a significant role – with feints, coordinated spike setups and the opportunity for counter play. The current meta favours ranged AoE condition nuking far too much to promote that type of play. I sincerely hope ANet decides to tone down AoE across the board and then gradually shifts the game’s mechanics away from passive buffs and one-button wonders to accommodate a more back-and-forth type of meta.

If you have skill and can make up your own builds rather than just playing what everyone else is you will realize that many things are fine and there is only a trait here or there that need to be fixed. Rather than calling a nerf for rangers and necromancers Change Your build to counter their strengths. Even with skill a counter build exists. One build should not take on all of the build types even gw1 was about counters. The condition counters are there you just have to Make the right builds and play right. Anet is doing better than anyone on these forms could do to balance the game and create player skill caps.

anet left the gw1 metagame in one of its worst conditions ever. it seems only natural for them to continue their mess here.

How would be the meta if there would be no amulets at all besides the one that give an all around spread out stats? This would actually be interesting to see.

saVdoom.2067:

How would be the meta if there would be no amulets at all besides the one that give an all around spread out stats? This would actually be interesting to see.

I wish custom arenas could be set in such a way, where players could define several rules for testing purposes, like “all amulets count as celestial”, “enable racial skills”, “deactivate downed state”, etc.

The game might be more balanced with no amulets, armor runes, wep sigils etc. But it might feel even more hollow.

Celtus.8456:

The game might be more balanced with no amulets, armor runes, wep sigils etc. But it might feel even more hollow.

I would personally like to see a “no traits” option for custom arena. Not saying the game would be more balanced this way, but it would be interesting to test out how much the gameplay would change without so many passive effects, condition/ boon overload, nor traits that make classes easier-than-intended to play. Would it be funnier?

DiogoSilva.7089:

Celtus.8456:

The game might be more balanced with no amulets, armor runes, wep sigils etc. But it might feel even more hollow.

I would personally like to see a “no traits” option for custom arena. Not saying the game would be more balanced this way, but it would be interesting to test out how much the gameplay would change without so many passive effects, condition/ boon overload, nor traits that make classes easier-than-intended to play. Would it be funnier?

Mesmers, Eles and thieves with no traits?
Sounds like Engineers win.

ensoriki.5789:

Mesmers, Eles and thieves with no traits?
Sounds like Engineers win.

Maybe, maybe, but it would be interesting to see mesmers with weaker phantasm spam, no clone on dodge spam nor shattering without clones; or elementalists without a buttload of effects each time they press a key to use a cantrip. It wouldn’t be balanced, but it could be worth experimenting.

They need a much larger Skill, Trait and Profession Mechanic balance team.
They also need separate teams to balance PvE, sPvP and maybe a third for WvW that all can collaborate.

DiogoSilva.7089:

ensoriki.5789:

Mesmers, Eles and thieves with no traits?
Sounds like Engineers win.

Maybe, maybe, but it would be interesting to see mesmers with weaker phantasm spam, no clone on dodge spam nor shattering without clones; or elementalists without a buttload of effects each time they press a key to use a cantrip. It wouldn’t be balanced, but it could be worth experimenting.

I imagine that the game is balanced to first order around no traits. It has to be, else all balance would be relative to certain builds. It is most likely beta damage was toned on several builds and such. Because without traits it was still very strong.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

DiogoSilva.7089:

ensoriki.5789:

Mesmers, Eles and thieves with no traits?
Sounds like Engineers win.

Maybe, maybe, but it would be interesting to see mesmers with weaker phantasm spam, no clone on dodge spam nor shattering without clones; or elementalists without a buttload of effects each time they press a key to use a cantrip. It wouldn’t be balanced, but it could be worth experimenting.

I imagine that the game is balanced to first order around no traits. It has to be, else all balance would be relative to certain builds. It is most likely beta damage was toned on several builds and such. Because without traits it was still very strong.

All balance IS relative to traits and certain builds..have you tried playing no arcana elementalist for example ? :P
Basically anet has shown clearly that they intend to do everything to balance around the strong builds no matter the concequences

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

I don’t think the devs realized just how much necros would have been buffed simply because they overlooked at simultaneously, they are buffing both weakness(now affects crit AND 50% fumble) and blindness (no more shaking it off) which were buffs to EVERYTHING overall…not directed to necros. Unfortunately a necro has access to both conditions, 1 of which will come out everytime you deathshroud. Add torment, burning with dhuumfire + fear wall procting with terror and it’s a HUGE buff.

Necros honestly weren’t that far off before…they just needed disengage…but the balance is very skewed right now.

What’s funny is that necroes aren’t even at their full potential yet because Poison is completely broken! Good joke.

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

My main issue with AOE is there is no risk in order to successfully pull it off. Warriors have to be in the fray to pull off their cleave. Its high risk high reward. Other classes should be subjected to the same. Whether its marks, chaos storms, etc… , all need some sort of risk to make someone choose to use it instead of just spamming it on cooldown.

^But how? How do you make ranged the same as close-range risk-wise, skill-wise? Without giving melee/close range gap-closers because clearly those aren’t enough for most people.

candlecan.9827:

My main issue with AOE is there is no risk in order to successfully pull it off. Warriors have to be in the fray to pull off their cleave. Its high risk high reward. Other classes should be subjected to the same. Whether its marks, chaos storms, etc… , all need some sort of risk to make someone choose to use it instead of just spamming it on cooldown.

Warriors also have long bow that they can do the same with, they are not always exposed in order to utilize aoe.

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and play FOTM classes.

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.

In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

DiogoSilva.7089:

ensoriki.5789:

Mesmers, Eles and thieves with no traits?
Sounds like Engineers win.

Maybe, maybe, but it would be interesting to see mesmers with weaker phantasm spam, no clone on dodge spam nor shattering without clones; or elementalists without a buttload of effects each time they press a key to use a cantrip. It wouldn’t be balanced, but it could be worth experimenting.

I imagine that the game is balanced to first order around no traits. It has to be, else all balance would be relative to certain builds. It is most likely beta damage was toned on several builds and such. Because without traits it was still very strong.

I think originally that was the case but no longer. The core 5 skills seem to be at the mercy of traits and utils foremost. Not to nag, but the first clue of this is I can think of Pistol whip + Haste back at launch, when the decision went to the core skill first instead of the util. As well as the Cloak and dagger nerf before Mug for the D/D spike. So it seems to me that they try to preserve traits first because they are general and apply to multiple weapon sets. So to keep ‘diversity’ they’ll nerf the weapon first to try and not cause too many build losses with trait nerfs. Obviously this isn’t a thief exclusive thing.

That and I think they’ve intentially left it so traits are somewhat required in order to “complete” a prof. Eg. Mesmers handling of illusions which don’t come into their own until traited.

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

Do you know that those fotm players would be part of your 2% elitist forum? And those who were carried by their premade teammates too.

butch.8136:

^But how? How do you make ranged the same as close-range risk-wise, skill-wise? Without giving melee/close range gap-closers because clearly those aren’t enough for most people.

Things that have been suggested would work like an activation time such as dragon tooth and things similar. Other ideas would be something like requiring AOE to be dropped at the casters feet (i know it sounds dumb but would it really be that bad?). You could also require a condi to be present to drop it, (i.e. cant drop reapers mark unless the target is poisoned).

My ideas might not be the best but the point is valid. Mechanics could be implemented to promote more intelligent and dynamic use of AOE rather than the current spam meta that exists now.

dovrak.4376:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

Do you know that those fotm players would be part of your 2% elitist forum? And those who were carried by their premade teammates too.

That’s why you hand pick them you don’t need them all.

Ultima.8673:

Volrath.1473:

I made a very similar thread 2-3 weeks ago and got flamed cuz it was “too soon” after the patch and players would adapt to this new meta.

well guess what?! I was right…

PS. This was my thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Worse-Meta-EVER

in the past i knew from many necrofriends posi, moa and others that the patch will be ridicilous overpowered…

What’s funny is that pre-patch I was telling my team it is time to run double necro due to how awesome they would be post patch and I’m not even up there with the likes of some of the people posting here. If someone of my skill can see this coming that begs the question of how ANet couldn’t see this coming.

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.

In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.

And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.

If they were to nerf most of the OP kitten in this game you would see alot of teams not doing as hot as they were before.

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.

In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.

And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.

So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.

From the first page on the forum, we’ve got:

Spirit Rangers
Burst Eles s/d with and without fresh air trait
S/D Thieves
GS Mesmers
Necros
Bomb Engies
Bunker Guardians

And soon to be stun/cc lock warriors.

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.

In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.

And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.

So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.

If you have been keeping track of the spvp scene you would know who are the good teams and who are those other teams who started doing good after buffs to certain classes i don’t need to throw names out there.

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.

In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.

And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.

So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.

If you have been keeping track of the spvp scene you would know who are the good teams and who are those other teams who started doing good after buffs to certain classes i don’t need to throw names out there.

You don’t have to, but for the sake of clarity it would be nice if you did. As I stated, I’m pretty confident that if you name a team, there is an “op” profession on their team. Such is the current state of affairs with the perceived balance at this point.

As a side note, I have been keeping track and I’m having a hard time coming up with one team who doesn’t.

QtHman.6502:

snip

So explain to me from the top lvl pvp why S/D Thief is superior to other classes and whats its contribution to the team in comparison to other classes?

Make me a spread sheet aka Aoe Damage, Raw Damage, Burst Damage, Condition Damage, Chance-to-one-shot a class, On going condition removal, Returning conditions, Might stacking; basically the list I made on page 3 post 6.

And also pay attention to the person who quoted me and I clarified things for him.

QtHman.6502:

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and play FOTM classes.

Which teams/comps take skills to play? And which players have it easy playing FOTM?

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.

In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.

And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.

So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.

From the first page on the forum, we’ve got:

Spirit Rangers
Burst Eles s/d with and without fresh air trait
S/D Thieves
GS Mesmers
Necros
Bomb Engies
Bunker Guardians

And soon to be stun/cc lock warriors.

Most of the APEX Predator classes are
Necros
Spirit Ranger
S/D Thief

As of right now those 3 classes are consider the broken ones and yes there is s/d ele and mesmers but don’t compare them to those 3 on top they’re no where near as broken as those 3

Avead.5760:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

DiogoSilva.7089:

ensoriki.5789:

Mesmers, Eles and thieves with no traits?
Sounds like Engineers win.

Maybe, maybe, but it would be interesting to see mesmers with weaker phantasm spam, no clone on dodge spam nor shattering without clones; or elementalists without a buttload of effects each time they press a key to use a cantrip. It wouldn’t be balanced, but it could be worth experimenting.

I imagine that the game is balanced to first order around no traits. It has to be, else all balance would be relative to certain builds. It is most likely beta damage was toned on several builds and such. Because without traits it was still very strong.

All balance IS relative to traits and certain builds..have you tried playing no arcana elementalist for example ? :P
Basically anet has shown clearly that they intend to do everything to balance around the strong builds no matter the concequences

It cannot be. Maybe it is becoming that way most recently, but number balance is certainly done before traits. To stick with your elementalist example, old eviscerate would not have 1 shot that ele build. But it was other builds it would wipe and it was changed.

Now I know next traits must be considered because many traits shorten recharge and such.
But I want to point out that they do not balance builds initially. They balance traits and skills, which create new builds. Then they balance again which either creates a new build or weakens the current one.

Authority.6145:

QtHman.6502:

snip

So explain to me from the top lvl pvp why S/D Thief is superior to other classes and whats its contribution to the team in comparison to other classes?

Make me a spread sheet aka Aoe Damage, Raw Damage, Burst Damage, Condition Damage, Chance-to-one-shot a class, On going condition removal, Returning conditions, Might stacking; basically the list I made on page 3 post 6.

And also pay attention to the person who quoted me and I clarified things for him.

QtHman.6502:

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and play FOTM classes.

Which teams/comps take skills to play? And which players have it easy playing FOTM?

Why whould i named them? I don’t need to do that i’m sure alot of players and teams know who they are.

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Pyriall.5027:

QtHman.6502:

Lordrosicky.5813:

QtHman.6502:

RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.

What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.

I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.

And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..

“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”

What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-

“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”

If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.

Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.

That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?

Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM

But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.

In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.

And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.

So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.

From the first page on the forum, we’ve got:

Spirit Rangers
Burst Eles s/d with and without fresh air trait
S/D Thieves
GS Mesmers
Necros
Bomb Engies
Bunker Guardians

And soon to be stun/cc lock warriors.

Most of the APEX Predator classes are
Necros
Spirit Ranger
S/D Thief

As of right now those 3 classes are consider the broken ones and yes there is s/d ele and mesmers but don’t compare them to those 3 on top they’re no where near as broken as those 3

So we have a system that is infested with “broken” builds and we’re still claiming that there is high tier play? I don’t see how you can determine that with the current proclamation of so many broken/op builds.