Current state of the meta.
Everyone is running at least one cheesy class, is that the answer your looking for? Hman did nothing wrong he just doesn’t want to state the obvious.
There’s a pretty big difference between teams who run “fotm” (read as strong) builds and incorperate them into good solid play and teams who run 2 spirit rangers and 2 necros to just faceroll for wins.
Good teams will run strong builds because good teams want to win. However, you wont see good teams jump ship and run comps that by all means should be terrible just because the builds are broken as can be.
Double spirit ranger, double necro, gaurdian by all means is a terrible terrible comp. It has low time to kill, is nearly purely condi based, has very little team utility, very little stomp utility, terrible mobility. Ect, ect ect. It works because spirit rangers and necros are just absurdly broken, esp. when paired together. The builds are so good that they counter what should be their counters.
I havn’t seen a single “top” team not running strong/fotm builds. EU meta is (from what ive head) S/D Thief, Necro, Bunker Guard, Spirit Ranger/Engi, and an Ele. Just about every NA team is running simmilar, TDM runs that build, RNG drops and ele for a GS mesmer, ect. the problem isn’t that top teams refuse to run strong builds. The problem is top teams refuse to degrade play into passive condi spam that by all means should not work and should be getting nerfed soon.
[LR] Siric
Im sorry I still don’t get the spirit ranger hype. Explain to me Qt if you would be so kind. I see it as fairly common at the moment, but unless it’s a double spirit comp, the spirits go down quickly and come back slowly. Tbh main issue I’ve seen is going for the ranger and getting wailed by others but the ranger himself is relatively easy to dispatch.
The great forum duppy.
(edited by ensoriki.5789)
RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.
What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.
I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.
And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..
“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”
What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-
“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”
If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.
Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.
That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?
Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No
There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM
But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.
In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.
And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.
So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.
From the first page on the forum, we’ve got:
Spirit Rangers
Burst Eles s/d with and without fresh air trait
S/D Thieves
GS Mesmers
Necros
Bomb Engies
Bunker GuardiansAnd soon to be stun/cc lock warriors.
Most of the APEX Predator classes are
Necros
Spirit Ranger
S/D ThiefAs of right now those 3 classes are consider the broken ones and yes there is s/d ele and mesmers but don’t compare them to those 3 on top they’re no where near as broken as those 3
So we have a system that is infested with “broken” builds and we’re still claiming that there is high tier play? I don’t see how you can determine that with the current proclamation of so many broken/op builds.
you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing you’re doing the same you did to Xeph last time he made a post.
I have 1 question for you do you play Gw2? Are you in a team? cuz if you did 1 of those 2 you know would know everything that has been going on and what’s broken and what’s not and what team was doing good before all this broken kitten and who wasn’t.
Stop arguing for the sake of arguing i’m not gonna sit here and argue with you about this all day until you feel satisfied.
(edited by QtHman.6502)
Everyone is running at least one cheesy class, is that the answer your looking for? Hman did nothing wrong he just doesn’t want to state the obvious.
But that’s the problem they’re running it to fallow the flow of the meta but they don’t need to run those builds to be good “like most teams do”
I’m not a fotm player, I’m just following the flow of the meta. I’ll use that one.
Everyone is running at least one cheesy class, is that the answer your looking for? Hman did nothing wrong he just doesn’t want to state the obvious.
But that’s the problem they’re running it to fallow the flow of the meta but they don’t need to run those builds to be good “like most teams do”
Ya I agree they aren’t necessary to be competitive and good. But it’s easier to pick up FOTM classes and do well, than it is to pick an off-mainstream class and do well.
Basically, barrier of entry to competitive PvP is lower with FOTM classes, but skill ceiling is lower when you limit yourself in that way.
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
Team Paradigm.
Xeph.
Xeph.
RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.
What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.
I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.
And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..
“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”
What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-
“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”
If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.
Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.
That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?
Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No
There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM
But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.
In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.
And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.
So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.
From the first page on the forum, we’ve got:
Spirit Rangers
Burst Eles s/d with and without fresh air trait
S/D Thieves
GS Mesmers
Necros
Bomb Engies
Bunker GuardiansAnd soon to be stun/cc lock warriors.
Most of the APEX Predator classes are
Necros
Spirit Ranger
S/D ThiefAs of right now those 3 classes are consider the broken ones and yes there is s/d ele and mesmers but don’t compare them to those 3 on top they’re no where near as broken as those 3
So we have a system that is infested with “broken” builds and we’re still claiming that there is high tier play? I don’t see how you can determine that with the current proclamation of so many broken/op builds.
you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing you’re doing the same you did to Xeph last time he made a post.
I have 1 question for you do you play Gw2? Are you in a team? cuz if you did 1 of those 2 you know would know everything that has been going on and what’s broken and what’s not and what team was doing good before all this broken kitten and who wasn’t.Stop arguing for the sake of arguing i’m not gonna sit here and argue with you about this all day until you feel satisfied.
My conversation with Xeph has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. I’m quoting you, as I stated I don’t see how you can make a claim in one hand and make a statement that invalidates in another.
Most team are playing those OP classes cuz they don’t want to lose a game just cuz they didn’t play those classes i’m pretty sure alot of those teams who plays all the OP kitten aren’t having fun playing them or don’t like it.
If they did they wouldn’t be saying “this meta sucks” like everyone that is playing it right now
Everyone is running at least one cheesy class, is that the answer your looking for? Hman did nothing wrong he just doesn’t want to state the obvious.
No, I’m looking at his statement claiming there is a high tiered level when he has already stated that people play faceroll builds to achieve a level of competitive play. It doesn’t make sense, to me, that you can make those two statements.
I’ll requote myself because I think it was glazed over, however I do believe this is what he’s getting at:
“Basically, barrier of entry to competitive PvP is lower with FOTM classes, but skill ceiling is lower when you limit yourself in that way.”
RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.
What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.
I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.
And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..
“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”
What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-
“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”
If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.
Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.
That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?
Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No
There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM
But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.
In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.
And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.
So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.
From the first page on the forum, we’ve got:
Spirit Rangers
Burst Eles s/d with and without fresh air trait
S/D Thieves
GS Mesmers
Necros
Bomb Engies
Bunker GuardiansAnd soon to be stun/cc lock warriors.
Most of the APEX Predator classes are
Necros
Spirit Ranger
S/D ThiefAs of right now those 3 classes are consider the broken ones and yes there is s/d ele and mesmers but don’t compare them to those 3 on top they’re no where near as broken as those 3
So we have a system that is infested with “broken” builds and we’re still claiming that there is high tier play? I don’t see how you can determine that with the current proclamation of so many broken/op builds.
you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing you’re doing the same you did to Xeph last time he made a post.
I have 1 question for you do you play Gw2? Are you in a team? cuz if you did 1 of those 2 you know would know everything that has been going on and what’s broken and what’s not and what team was doing good before all this broken kitten and who wasn’t.Stop arguing for the sake of arguing i’m not gonna sit here and argue with you about this all day until you feel satisfied.
My conversation with Xeph has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. I’m quoting you, as I stated I don’t see how you can make a claim in one hand and make a statement that invalidates in another.
it has nothing to do with Xeph. But i do like how you just come here and talk and talk and talk…..I asked you 2 questions if you aren’t in a team or you aren’t playing Gw2 spvp then this is a waste….
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.
What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.
I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.
And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..
“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”
What I don’t understand is, when you make comments like this that follow a previous comment you’ve made which was-
“In the current meta all you have is a bunch of “faceroll” builds that anyone can play you don’t even need to be good at them to be able to compete in high tier spvp.”
If they are faceroll builds and you don’t need to be good at them, then how can you say there is a high tier of pvp? Not to mention that TPVP is nothing but glorified hotjoins atm.
Well there are those players that refuse to play faceroll builds cuz they don’t want/like to play that way and there are those players that just goes with the meta.
That doesn’t change what you are saying. If there is no skill involved in those builds to compete then how can you claim there is a high tiered level of pvp?
Did i said all classes/builds were faceroll? No
There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and plat TFOM
But if there are teams/comps that utilize builds that are faceroll and they are doing well at the “HIGH” tiered pvp. I wouldn’t exactly start distinguishing the level of skill and classifying the pvp as “HIGH” tiered. Especially given the frequency that those builds are being played.
In one hand it’s “faceroll” in the other “high tiered”. It doesn’t reconcile.
And yes you got the really skill teams in 1 hand and in the other you got those other teams who are only doing good cuz of the OP classes they’re playing.
So which teams are “high” tiered according to your definition, because I can say pretty confidently that each one of those teams has one of the professions that we’re talking about as “OP”.
From the first page on the forum, we’ve got:
Spirit Rangers
Burst Eles s/d with and without fresh air trait
S/D Thieves
GS Mesmers
Necros
Bomb Engies
Bunker GuardiansAnd soon to be stun/cc lock warriors.
Most of the APEX Predator classes are
Necros
Spirit Ranger
S/D ThiefAs of right now those 3 classes are consider the broken ones and yes there is s/d ele and mesmers but don’t compare them to those 3 on top they’re no where near as broken as those 3
So we have a system that is infested with “broken” builds and we’re still claiming that there is high tier play? I don’t see how you can determine that with the current proclamation of so many broken/op builds.
you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing you’re doing the same you did to Xeph last time he made a post.
I have 1 question for you do you play Gw2? Are you in a team? cuz if you did 1 of those 2 you know would know everything that has been going on and what’s broken and what’s not and what team was doing good before all this broken kitten and who wasn’t.Stop arguing for the sake of arguing i’m not gonna sit here and argue with you about this all day until you feel satisfied.
My conversation with Xeph has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. I’m quoting you, as I stated I don’t see how you can make a claim in one hand and make a statement that invalidates in another.
it has nothing to do but i do like who you how you just come here and talk and talk and talk…..I asked you 2 questions if you aren’t in a team or you aren’t playing Gw2 spvp then this is a waste….
It is safe to assume that since I’m posting on the Guild Wars 2 forum that I play the game.
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
because others are not in the same position as people who had built up team work, and practice with their respective teams for a long period of time, to only be degraded into playing in this meta, its something you have to experience first hand to have a full comprehension of how stupid things are at the moment.
Team Paradigm.
Xeph.
Xeph.
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
because others are not in the same position as people who had built up team work, and practice with their respective teams for a long period of time, to only be degraded into playing in this meta, its something you have to experience first hand to have a full comprehension of how stupid things are at the moment.
I don’t disagree that there are things way way over tuned. I disagree that people should be dismissed, because as others have put it don’t play in “high tiered” pvp. Especially given that it is nearly impossible to define high tier as of late. It’s similar to saying a person is only valid if they’re in the top 100 lb.
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
because others are not in the same position as people who had built up team work, and practice with their respective teams for a long period of time, to only be degraded into playing in this meta, its something you have to experience first hand to have a full comprehension of how stupid things are at the moment.
I don’t think he understands what is really going on in the SPVP scene right now.
boring meta is boring….
Vyndetta – Ranger- [SYNC]
thanks so much for the post.
This really brings me back to my other thread asking ANet to listen to top players
stop listening to the beginners who just ask for more things on their class (i.e. necros asking for more conditions + dmg) and start listening to these top players who actually have an insight into the game mechanics
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
because others are not in the same position as people who had built up team work, and practice with their respective teams for a long period of time, to only be degraded into playing in this meta, its something you have to experience first hand to have a full comprehension of how stupid things are at the moment.
I don’t think he understands what is really going on in the SPVP scene right now.
I’m sure it takes a real “high” skilled player right now to access that:
AOE is out of control
Necros are over tuned
S/D damage, boon strip, evasion built into one ability is over budget
Passive ability play is terrible design
I mean I can go on and on and identify the same things that others have that aren’t in high tiered play…
thanks so much for the post.
This really brings me back to my other thread asking ANet to listen to top players
stop listening to the beginners who just ask for more things on their class (i.e. necros asking for more conditions + dmg) and start listening to these top players who actually have an insight into the game mechanics
They’ve stated that they speak regularly to “top” players. Which brings this discussion full circle as to how do they define these top players given that most of the times you have players jockeying for buffs to their profession of choice.
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
because others are not in the same position as people who had built up team work, and practice with their respective teams for a long period of time, to only be degraded into playing in this meta, its something you have to experience first hand to have a full comprehension of how stupid things are at the moment.
I don’t think he understands what is really going on in the SPVP scene right now.
I’m sure it takes a real “high” skilled player right now to access that:
AOE is out of control
Necros are over tuned
S/D damage, boon strip, evasion built into one ability is over budget
Passive ability play is terrible designI mean I can go on and on and identify the same things that others have that aren’t in high tiered play…
But you are saying what every other player has been saying about all those classes
have you experienced any of it first hand?
There is a huge difference between Hotjoins and Spvp if you didn’t know.
(edited by QtHman.6502)
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
because others are not in the same position as people who had built up team work, and practice with their respective teams for a long period of time, to only be degraded into playing in this meta, its something you have to experience first hand to have a full comprehension of how stupid things are at the moment.
I don’t think he understands what is really going on in the SPVP scene right now.
I’m sure it takes a real “high” skilled player right now to access that:
AOE is out of control
Necros are over tuned
S/D damage, boon strip, evasion built into one ability is over budget
Passive ability play is terrible designI mean I can go on and on and identify the same things that others have that aren’t in high tiered play…
But you are saying what every other player has been saying about all those classes
have you experienced any of it first hand?
So EVERYONE is saying those things right? Not just “high” tiered players? I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion, not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
And yes, if you’ve played the game it’s pretty evident.
They’ve stated that they speak regularly to “top” players. Which brings this discussion full circle as to how do they define these top players given that most of the times you have players jockeying for buffs to their profession of choice.
This isn’t even remotely true. There really isn’t much else to say about that.
[LR] Siric
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
because others are not in the same position as people who had built up team work, and practice with their respective teams for a long period of time, to only be degraded into playing in this meta, its something you have to experience first hand to have a full comprehension of how stupid things are at the moment.
I don’t disagree that there are things way way over tuned. I disagree that people should be dismissed, because as others have put it don’t play in “high tiered” pvp. Especially given that it is nearly impossible to define high tier as of late. It’s similar to saying a person is only valid if they’re in the top 100 lb.
I don’t think people should be dismissed, but I also do believe there is a lot of false information being spread through out of the forums, and a lot of people do have opinions and they are to be valued, but sometimes its best to have a large scope of understanding before posting based on limited knowledge.
Team Paradigm.
Xeph.
Xeph.
You know what i will just stop arguing cuz i don’t want this thread to get close.
They’ve stated that they speak regularly to “top” players. Which brings this discussion full circle as to how do they define these top players given that most of the times you have players jockeying for buffs to their profession of choice.
This isn’t even remotely true. There really isn’t much else to say about that.
Did you watch the last SoTG, they said it in there. Unless you are referencing the second part of my statement, in which case I ask that you clarify. Thanks.
Pyriall
There is always going to be high tier play, it just means now there is less skill required to be a top team, because any team that is decently skilled, can use those builds and wreck a team that has a balanced comp, because aoe and damage is so out of hand that support and team work is out the window.
It’s exactly for that reason that I have a hard time understanding when people come in and are dismissive of others under the guise of “high tiered” play. If it is so easy to achieve this high level who are people to be so dismissive of others?
because others are not in the same position as people who had built up team work, and practice with their respective teams for a long period of time, to only be degraded into playing in this meta, its something you have to experience first hand to have a full comprehension of how stupid things are at the moment.
I don’t disagree that there are things way way over tuned. I disagree that people should be dismissed, because as others have put it don’t play in “high tiered” pvp. Especially given that it is nearly impossible to define high tier as of late. It’s similar to saying a person is only valid if they’re in the top 100 lb.
I don’t think people should be dismissed, but I also do believe there is a lot of false information being spread through out of the forums, and a lot of people do have opinions and they are to be valued, but sometimes its best to have a large scope of understanding before posting based on limited knowledge.
Which I would agree on; however by limiting the participants of the discussion are you not limiting your understanding of how the complete player base is affected by changes. I think it’s best to start with a large base and narrow down the discussion. Although people with general knowledge may not be able to drill down to the exact cause of un-enjoyable play they can often times give you a perspective not thought about, by them trying to identify it.
So EVERYONE is saying those things right? Not just “high” tiered players? I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion, not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
And yes, if you’ve played the game it’s pretty evident.
Lets break this down:
I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion
Do you think a bronze level LoL player would have been suggesting the shift from Resistance based defense to HP based defense between seasons 2 and 3?
Do you think a bronze level player would understand the cause and impact of the support items being shifted to junglers in S3?
Do you think a silver level Sc2 player understands why void rays have not been nerfed yet dominate him every game against a protoss?
The answer here for the large majority is no. Unless you follow a game thoroughly (watch ever LCS/WCS match ect.) there is no way a low “tier” player will comprehend enough about the highest levels of play because they have not experienced it.
not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
No one is looking to segregate anything. It just so happens that some players put more time into the game and are better at it. These are “top tier” players. There is no push to create some super elities top tier group, it just happens nauturally.
[LR] Siric
So EVERYONE is saying those things right? Not just “high” tiered players? I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion, not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
And yes, if you’ve played the game it’s pretty evident.
Lets break this down:
I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion
Do you think a bronze level LoL player would have been suggesting the shift from Resistance based defense to HP based defense between seasons 2 and 3?
Do you think a bronze level player would understand the cause and impact of the support items being shifted to junglers in S3?
Do you think a silver level Sc2 player understands why void rays have not been nerfed yet dominate him every game against a protoss?
The answer here for the large majority is no. Unless you follow a game thoroughly (watch ever LCS/WCS match ect.) there is no way a low “tier” player will comprehend enough about the highest levels of play because they have not experienced it.
not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
No one is looking to segregate anything. It just so happens that some players put more time into the game and are better at it. These are “top tier” players. There is no push to create some super elities top tier group, it just happens nauturally.
I haven’t played those games, but I’m sure that you can browse the forums of those servers and you’ll more than likely find players within those categories who did just fine identifying those same issues.
And just to be clear, “They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..” Yes, someone was looking to segregate the players and that was the person I was speaking with.
So EVERYONE is saying those things right? Not just “high” tiered players? I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion, not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
And yes, if you’ve played the game it’s pretty evident.
Lets break this down:
I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion
Do you think a bronze level LoL player would have been suggesting the shift from Resistance based defense to HP based defense between seasons 2 and 3?
Do you think a bronze level player would understand the cause and impact of the support items being shifted to junglers in S3?
Do you think a silver level Sc2 player understands why void rays have not been nerfed yet dominate him every game against a protoss?
The answer here for the large majority is no. Unless you follow a game thoroughly (watch ever LCS/WCS match ect.) there is no way a low “tier” player will comprehend enough about the highest levels of play because they have not experienced it.
not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
No one is looking to segregate anything. It just so happens that some players put more time into the game and are better at it. These are “top tier” players. There is no push to create some super elities top tier group, it just happens nauturally.
I haven’t played those games, but I’m sure that you can browse the forums of those servers and you’ll more than likely find players within those categories who did just fine identifying those same issues.
And just to be clear, “They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..” Yes, someone was looking to segregate the players and that was the person I was speaking with.
There are opinions that will always be valued over others; because they have the experience, an on looker might have a very good understanding of the meta, but he lacks the experience to full comprehend what’s going on, that is the issue here.
That’s it period, I don’t know how you can argue about this for so long, when its a very obvious subject, to me this seems like you are just arguing for the sake of it, so please just take this to pm’s and stop derailing a topic yet again.
Team Paradigm.
Xeph.
Xeph.
So EVERYONE is saying those things right? Not just “high” tiered players? I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion, not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
And yes, if you’ve played the game it’s pretty evident.
Lets break this down:
I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion
Do you think a bronze level LoL player would have been suggesting the shift from Resistance based defense to HP based defense between seasons 2 and 3?
Do you think a bronze level player would understand the cause and impact of the support items being shifted to junglers in S3?
Do you think a silver level Sc2 player understands why void rays have not been nerfed yet dominate him every game against a protoss?
The answer here for the large majority is no. Unless you follow a game thoroughly (watch ever LCS/WCS match ect.) there is no way a low “tier” player will comprehend enough about the highest levels of play because they have not experienced it.
not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
No one is looking to segregate anything. It just so happens that some players put more time into the game and are better at it. These are “top tier” players. There is no push to create some super elities top tier group, it just happens nauturally.
I haven’t played those games, but I’m sure that you can browse the forums of those servers and you’ll more than likely find players within those categories who did just fine identifying those same issues.
And just to be clear, “They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..” Yes, someone was looking to segregate the players and that was the person I was speaking with.
There are opinions that will always be valued over others; because they have the experience, an on looker might have a very good understanding of the meta, but he lacks the experience to full comprehend what’s going on, that is the issue here.
That’s it period, I don’t know how you can argue about this for so long, when its a very obvious subject, to me this seems like you are just arguing for the sake of it, so please just take this to pm’s and stop derailing a topic yet again.
Why is it that every time someone has a differing opinion than you guys, and by you guys I mean those who are “top tiered” it’s always someone “trolling”, going “off topic”, and “derailing” when it is a discussion that was instigated by those said people? If I want to have a discussion, I’ll have it. I don’t need your permission to do so. If I feel ,within the course of a topicc that someone says something I agree/disagree with and I choose to converse with them then I will. That is what these boards are for and I don’t need you to police my posting.
I completely agree with Pyrial
First off, people sometimes forget about the fact that Guild Wars 2 is a game, after all.
The “top tier” players aren’t even the 0.1% of the player base and, considering that the last important tournament of GW2 had only about 1000 spectators while Guild Wars 2 has sold 3 million copies, I think that there is an issue which can’t be solved by listening only to top players, which seems what ArenaNet is doing in the last period.
Secondly, playing a lot of tPvP and being a top player doesn’t mean you have enough critical eye to understand the issues of the game and to formulate an adequate solution to them. Obviously that doesn’t mean that you can’t be a top player and a good “analyzer”, I just want to point out that “being a top player” doesn’t imply “being a good analizer”. That’s why every people should be listened not because of what they are but because of what they say.
(edited by sorrow.2364)
So EVERYONE is saying those things right? Not just “high” tiered players? I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion, not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
And yes, if you’ve played the game it’s pretty evident.
Lets break this down:
I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion
Do you think a bronze level LoL player would have been suggesting the shift from Resistance based defense to HP based defense between seasons 2 and 3?
Do you think a bronze level player would understand the cause and impact of the support items being shifted to junglers in S3?
Do you think a silver level Sc2 player understands why void rays have not been nerfed yet dominate him every game against a protoss?
The answer here for the large majority is no. Unless you follow a game thoroughly (watch ever LCS/WCS match ect.) there is no way a low “tier” player will comprehend enough about the highest levels of play because they have not experienced it.
not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
No one is looking to segregate anything. It just so happens that some players put more time into the game and are better at it. These are “top tier” players. There is no push to create some super elities top tier group, it just happens nauturally.
I haven’t played those games, but I’m sure that you can browse the forums of those servers and you’ll more than likely find players within those categories who did just fine identifying those same issues.
And just to be clear, “They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..” Yes, someone was looking to segregate the players and that was the person I was speaking with.
There are opinions that will always be valued over others; because they have the experience, an on looker might have a very good understanding of the meta, but he lacks the experience to full comprehend what’s going on, that is the issue here.
That’s it period, I don’t know how you can argue about this for so long, when its a very obvious subject, to me this seems like you are just arguing for the sake of it, so please just take this to pm’s and stop derailing a topic yet again.Why is it that every time someone has a differing opinion than you guys, and by you guys I mean those who are “top tiered” it’s always someone “trolling”, going “off topic”, and “derailing” when it is a discussion that was instigated by those said people? If I want to have a discussion, I’ll have it. I don’t need your permission to do so. If I feel ,within the course of a topicc that someone says something I agree/disagree with and I choose to converse with them then I will. That is what these boards are for and I don’t need you to police my posting.
You are the one who is attacking others for their opinions all the time (and they are the ones who are right).
Maybe you are bored and decided to challange the top players rathter on the forums, idk.
Pointless arguing is all you can do.
Captain Deutschland, Ozzy The Insane, Hanz Limbchewer – r40+ mes/nec/engi Desolation
Fear The Crazy [Huns]
Fear The Crazy [Huns]
I completely agree with Pyrial
First off, people sometimes forget about the fact that Guild Wars 2 is a game, after all.
The “top tier” players aren’t even the 2% of the player base and, considering that the last important tournament of GW2 had only about 1000 spectators, I think that there is an issue which can’t be solved by listening only to top players, which seems what ArenaNet is doing in the last period.
There are separate teams from PvP and PvE in ArenaNet. Separate staff.
If the PvE team or PvP team doesn’t like a class change, then they split the skill – however, they try their best not to do that as to not screw up the feel of class from one section of the game to another.
AKA, 2% of the player base is only affecting the sPvP section of the game, in which they are a much higher percentage.
So EVERYONE is saying those things right? Not just “high” tiered players? I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion, not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
And yes, if you’ve played the game it’s pretty evident.
Lets break this down:
I think that is safe to assume that anyone with a reasonable mind can have a say in the balance discussion
Do you think a bronze level LoL player would have been suggesting the shift from Resistance based defense to HP based defense between seasons 2 and 3?
Do you think a bronze level player would understand the cause and impact of the support items being shifted to junglers in S3?
Do you think a silver level Sc2 player understands why void rays have not been nerfed yet dominate him every game against a protoss?
The answer here for the large majority is no. Unless you follow a game thoroughly (watch ever LCS/WCS match ect.) there is no way a low “tier” player will comprehend enough about the highest levels of play because they have not experienced it.
not just those looking to segregate the community into “tiered” levels.
No one is looking to segregate anything. It just so happens that some players put more time into the game and are better at it. These are “top tier” players. There is no push to create some super elities top tier group, it just happens nauturally.
I haven’t played those games, but I’m sure that you can browse the forums of those servers and you’ll more than likely find players within those categories who did just fine identifying those same issues.
And just to be clear, “They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..” Yes, someone was looking to segregate the players and that was the person I was speaking with.
There are opinions that will always be valued over others; because they have the experience, an on looker might have a very good understanding of the meta, but he lacks the experience to full comprehend what’s going on, that is the issue here.
That’s it period, I don’t know how you can argue about this for so long, when its a very obvious subject, to me this seems like you are just arguing for the sake of it, so please just take this to pm’s and stop derailing a topic yet again.Why is it that every time someone has a differing opinion than you guys, and by you guys I mean those who are “top tiered” it’s always someone “trolling”, going “off topic”, and “derailing” when it is a discussion that was instigated by those said people? If I want to have a discussion, I’ll have it. I don’t need your permission to do so. If I feel ,within the course of a topicc that someone says something I agree/disagree with and I choose to converse with them then I will. That is what these boards are for and I don’t need you to police my posting.
You are the one who is attacking others for their opinions all the time (and they are the ones who are right).
Maybe you are bored and decided to challange the top players rathter on the forums, idk.
Pointless arguing is all you can do.
Apparently discussing is attacking now. I don’t consider it pointless when someone says to someone else, we shouldn’t consider your opinion when we’re talking about the same game we all play. That’s just me though.
There are separate teams from PvP and PvE in ArenaNet. Separate staff.
If the PvE team or PvP team doesn’t like a class change, then they split the skill – however, they try their best not to do that as to not screw up the feel of class from one section of the game to another.
AKA, 2% of the player base is only affecting the sPvP section of the game, in which they are a much higher percentage.
I’ve edited my previous post to better reflect what I’ve tried to say.
Guild Wars 2 has sold 3 million copies, that means that there are at least 3 millions of potential competitive players. Even if we want to say that 1 millions aren’t interested at all into competition, the other 1.999 millions just don’t care and follow the competitive PvP. Why? Would you ask it that to the top tier players? I wouldn’t.
(edited by sorrow.2364)
There are separate teams from PvP and PvE in ArenaNet. Separate staff.
If the PvE team or PvP team doesn’t like a class change, then they split the skill – however, they try their best not to do that as to not screw up the feel of class from one section of the game to another.
AKA, 2% of the player base is only affecting the sPvP section of the game, in which they are a much higher percentage.
I’ve edited my previous post to better reflect what I’ve tried to say.
Guild Wars 2 has sold 3 million copies, that means that there are at least 3 millions of potential competitive players. Even if we want to say that 1 millions aren’t interested at all into competition, the other 1.999 millions just don’t care and follow the competitive PvP. Why? Would you ask it that to the top tier players? I wouldn’t.
Generally the lack of population is due to lack of rewards and the incredible grind to get high enough for decent looking weapons.
There are a lot of PvE’rs who’ve sPvPed but gave up because they weren’t seeing the progression they wanted as opposed to running CoF over and over for gear etc.
The people who stay are the ones who enjoy the PvP. If rewards are fixed, there’s a higher probability of bringing in new talent. So I wouldn’t chop this up a issue of balance rather than an issue of incentive.
Generally the lack of population is due to lack of rewards and the incredible grind to get high enough for decent looking weapons.
There are a lot of PvE’rs who’ve sPvPed but gave up because they weren’t seeing the progression they wanted as opposed to running CoF over and over for gear etc.
The people who stay are the ones who enjoy the PvP. If rewards are fixed, there’s a higher probability of bringing in new talent. So I wouldn’t chop this up a issue of balance rather than an issue of incentive.
Not really.
The lack of reward doesn’t force the people to not watch high tier tournaments and I don’t think it is the issue at all.
Counter-strike, which is one of the most famous and most played competitive game ever made, has no form of progression at all, but the playerbase counts millions of players and each high-level tournaments have at least one million spectators each.
I’ve never playerd LoL, tbh, but I don’t think it has a deep progression/reward system too.
The issue is that the PvP is, by factual considerations, not interesting which is the core issue at the moment and you won’t solve it by listening to top tier players which are, in fact, playing the game because they are enjoying it as it is and they are not even the 0.02% of GW2 buyers.
Generally the lack of population is due to lack of rewards and the incredible grind to get high enough for decent looking weapons.
There are a lot of PvE’rs who’ve sPvPed but gave up because they weren’t seeing the progression they wanted as opposed to running CoF over and over for gear etc.
The people who stay are the ones who enjoy the PvP. If rewards are fixed, there’s a higher probability of bringing in new talent. So I wouldn’t chop this up a issue of balance rather than an issue of incentive.
Not really.
The lack of reward doesn’t force the people to not watch high tier tournaments and I don’t think it is the issue at all.Counter-strike, which is one of the most famous and most played competitive game ever made, has no form of progression at all, but the playerbase counts millions of players and each high-level tournaments have at least one million spectators each.
I’ve never playerd LoL, tbh, but I don’t think it has a deep progression/reward system too.
The issue is that the PvP is, by factual considerations, not interesting which is the core issue at the moment and you won’t solve it by listening to top tier players which are, in fact, playing the game because they are enjoying it as it is and they are not even the 0.02% of GW2 buyers.
As a former competitive UT player, I miss the days when all a game took was it’s merits in-game and not the incentive of achievements and ‘shiny things’. But unfortunately, with the current generation, these things are needed to keep peoples attention. When they feel comfortable with whats going on, they move it to streams.
It’s also helps that our casters are getting better and better, soon enough they’ll be able to convey new things to new viewers and retain them. Right now it’s rather confusing if you havn’t played.
I completely agree with Pyrial
First off, people sometimes forget about the fact that Guild Wars 2 is a game, after all.
The “top tier” players aren’t even the 0.1% of the player base and, considering that the last important tournament of GW2 had only about 1000 spectators while Guild Wars 2 has sold 3 million copies, I think that there is an issue which can’t be solved by listening only to top players, which seems what ArenaNet is doing in the last period.
I think you’re conjuring some negative presumptions of what they’re saying to anet to begin with. While players do get turned off because of balance, do you really think the balance is the main reason players vanished? That is primarily where the distinction between top player input and everyone elses gets segregated but it’s the least impactful to population numbers at this current moment.
Listening to other players isn’t what caused the population to drop.
The great forum duppy.
This game is less than a year old and it feels like it’s been powercreeped beyond what the original design and core game mechanics were meant to handle, even though not much powercreep has actually taken place. Every profession is overpowered, every bar can be spammed or rotated effectively. But what was left behind were core elements such as positioning and timing. I’ve played mobas, and some competitive RPG-like games, but gw2 just feels extremely spammy by comparison. Everything from skill spam, evade/ dodge roll spam, condi spam, blink/leap/stealth spam…is this game made for ADD children?
EVERY class needs to be brought down so the core elements that everyone respects like good positioning, resource management (of cooldowns), decision making, calculated risk, and timing play a larger role in the gameplay instead of whose broken mechanics can be abused harder.
When you ask Anet to fix your profession, and give them tons of ways to do so, they "fix" the complete opposite. It’s like: "Hey! Stealth is a problem and it’s a cheap mechanic as it is now. Us thieves have many good ways to fix this and increase the skill cap for thieves." And Anet responds with messing with all other weapon sets... Destroying short bow, messing with S/D #3 (it was perfectly fine!! It only needed a better pathing, not a new skill!). I mean, wtf Anet?!
Melder – Thief
I think we are getting away from the purpose of this thread.
It’s clear to most anyone who plays this game that certain elements are currently gamebreaking. It is especially clear to myself and others who play with a dedicated team and did so before the balance patch. You don’t need to be “high tiered” to understand broken balance but the level of experience sure helps.
As for all of the AoE remarks earlier — I personally don’t see as huge an issue with AoE once Necros are brought down. The fact that almost all of their skills are AoE and not all that telegraphed with S – S/D makes them feel quite mindless. Other professions don’t necessarily have this issue as Engineer Grenades are really just marks with a cast time, making them a skill shot and dodgeable (bombs being dodgeable as well), Elementalist AoEs are incredibly predictable and telegraphed, and so on. The only classes that AoE really feels out of control for are Necros and Mesmers. The Mesmer’s, at least, generally has to be done within melee range. Make Necro AoE more about control and less about damage and you have yourself a far more interesting class.
Undoubtedly, Necros should be the first priority for the balance patch before PAX, S/D thiefs and Spirit Rangers as second priority. When my team gets frustrated of running our normal comp and then can switch to Double Necro, Double Spirit Ranger, and Guardian (which we’re not nearly as experienced on) and be more successful, you know that serious work needs to be done.
As always though, this game is and always has been very close to solid balance. Here’s to hoping the next balance patch is a step in the right direction.
Salphir | Salfir | Falana
jo0 Binder
jo0 Binder
Honestly, I’m more irritated by the amount of pet AI there is and the body blocking that comes with it.
Also irritated with Z axis teleports and self-resses.
Everything else is ok, but I’m a Warrior so I’m allowed to gripe.
Way too much of this and other discussions on here seem to come down to what class a person plays, and whether or not said class has a vocal advocate within the community.
If anything I think they need to bring the other classes up to what people considered “OP” and get rid of the horribly stale bunker game. Looking forward to more warrior buffs so everyone who is shocked when a warrior kills them can start complaining about that…
I would also agree the current meta is probably the worst I have experienced since release with exception to the block bug meta. I felt the meta was in a pretty good spot until the “necro god tier” patch completely obliterated that for a number of reasons (not just OP necros). I’ve also been a strong supporter of Anet but I do feel something needs to change with the balance team. The number of buffs necros received is mind blowing. Once some major bugs get fixed (deathshroud, poison) necros are going to be so far beyond any other class it will be comical.
Something CLEARLY needs to change in the way Anet is balancing the game. They’ve stated multiple times before that they closely watch the forums to gather information on what to buff/nerf. I feel this is a terrible way to gather information. 90% of the QQ I read on the forums is ridiculous to be honest. Anet needs to up the efforts in communicating with top tier players who understand the game better than anyone else.
B L I N X / Blinxo
http://www.twitch.tv/blinxpvp
My Ele guide: http://intothemists.com/guides/guide.php?id=9
http://www.twitch.tv/blinxpvp
My Ele guide: http://intothemists.com/guides/guide.php?id=9
RockSteady Once you start playing the game at high lvl spvp you will understand what he’s talking about.
What are you, the god of gw2? Get over yourself. His opinion is as valid as yours.
I’m not the God of Gw2 but there is alot of players who think they know what they’re talking about when they have no idea what is really going on unless you’re playing the game at top lvl of spvp you have no clue of what’s happening. Watching a game and thinking you know some stuff it’s not the same as playing it i’ve experience those things first hand.
And this is why the forums are a joke most of the time you got those players who doesn’t understand the game or they think they do talking all kinds of things. They should just make a forum for the top 2% of players that spvp in Gw2…..
“I’m not talking about Hotjoins”
I couldn’t have said it better. This is something Anet REALLY needs to start considering.
B L I N X / Blinxo
http://www.twitch.tv/blinxpvp
My Ele guide: http://intothemists.com/guides/guide.php?id=9
http://www.twitch.tv/blinxpvp
My Ele guide: http://intothemists.com/guides/guide.php?id=9