Guild Wars 2

I usually flee the forum, yet I feel concerned since I like this game and its gameplay, and the situation is quite serious.

Why is the status quite ‘special’ this time (cause everyone always complaining but well ^^) :
> pro pvp players activity has dropped drastically. The number of pro teams is low, and among their players, few are still active. Current top 10 shows it.
> many good players ’activity is dropping, and even some whole teams are disbanding. Those are either pretty old teams made out of WvW experience, old pvp teams, or even some that did appear at Groucharoo event.
> casual activity in pvp that grew up last season decreases a bit, yet it does not create any core pvp activity.
Well, getting off that much of the top ladder basically leads to a no competitive playing PvP model…

What is really killing in current status of pvp :
> PvP is 5v5 only. So how could 2 people queue only make sense ? NO MATCHMAKING SYSTEM can ensure people’s skill balancing is regularly “simply fair” in such matches based on 2v2 (except if it grew up a 2 years long elo system over thousands of people…or allow 15 minuts long queues). So, ok, allowing a queue system based on 2 ppl queue, or 1 ppl, or whatever, fair enough… BUT Team Arena must be the leading system and its existence is MANDATORY for a competitive context intent.
> PvP must be attractive for its rewards at top lvl (esl discussions ?), its activity at regular player level, its diversity for casual players. I cannot tell much about esl rewarding case (though I heard several disappointments around it). But casual players only have a ranked system where they are mixed with ‘anyone’, and an unranked system that is the same without title nor reard. And worse is for regular good leveled players who must stick to the 2v2 system, with no extra activity. Why no regular teams ? why no regular encounter system ? why no tournament activity support ? I know community must be active on it, but not on its own !!

All this is all the more troubling that :
- 5v5 system existed, and conventional ranking as well. Why did anyone decide to create from scratch leadorbard system which has been investigated by sports, other games ?? And why did anyone think that 2 people grouping in a 5v5 system could be a leading (and single) competitive team(5v5)play activity ?
- guild mission system exist, yet it is only a ‘go to pvp and do a match’, while it could be a ‘team A vs team B schedule a time before this date, your arena will be 22, the 3 rounds will start at xx pm’.
- guild teams exist, but they are just a guild artefact, while there can exist teams for tournaments (groucharoo reached 32 !!!)
- the dota like play map… is fun, I mean : why not. But that was clearly not the priority. Some huge games encountered huge successes with basically 6 or 8 maps during 8 years !!! just their system was great…
- guildwars has many specificities keeping ppl active on it and not elsewhere : Lore, classes, graphics… Yet the very unique point is its gameplay and dynamism. The mobility, activity, reactivity, observation, are requiring and enjoyable. Making the game opened to all is ok, but if one wants a competitive system out of it, which seems to be the case, then this competitive system will necessarily be difficult and requiring. PvP structure must stick to the game it is applied to.

So I get the feeling this system is going nowhere, and regret it, that’s why my question is : Anet, where do you want to go !!!

I think the real problem with PvP is much more severe: the game is old and people are bored. This game released in 2012-ish and the adrenaline is gone. PvE is expected to age gracefully because it attracts long time fans and casuals, but PvP appeals to short term players who have by now discovered other, newer, better competitive games.

Alex Shatter.7956:

I think the real problem with PvP is much more severe: the game is old and people are bored. This game released in 2012-ish and the adrenaline is gone. PvE is expected to age gracefully because it attracts long time fans and casuals, but PvP appeals to short term players who have by now discovered other, newer, better competitive games.

WoW released in 2004 and still has tons and tons of players. Many many more players than GW2 does.

Gretzel.6790:

Alex Shatter.7956:

I think the real problem with PvP is much more severe: the game is old and people are bored. This game released in 2012-ish and the adrenaline is gone. PvE is expected to age gracefully because it attracts long time fans and casuals, but PvP appeals to short term players who have by now discovered other, newer, better competitive games.

WoW released in 2004 and still has tons and tons of players. Many many more players than GW2 does.

WoW is also one of the most infamously popular video games of all time. That and Starcraft were the League of Legends of their day, and will always have fans. Gw2 never, ever had or was expected to gain that much momentum. All I’m saying is, it isn’t completely Anet’s fault PvP is dying. A lot of it is just natural death

Alex Shatter.7956:

Gretzel.6790:

Alex Shatter.7956:

I think the real problem with PvP is much more severe: the game is old and people are bored. This game released in 2012-ish and the adrenaline is gone. PvE is expected to age gracefully because it attracts long time fans and casuals, but PvP appeals to short term players who have by now discovered other, newer, better competitive games.

WoW released in 2004 and still has tons and tons of players. Many many more players than GW2 does.

WoW is also one of the most infamously popular video games of all time. That and Starcraft were the League of Legends of their day, and will always have fans. Gw2 never, ever had or was expected to gain that much momentum. All I’m saying is, it isn’t completely Anet’s fault PvP is dying. A lot of it is just natural death

It is there fault. People don’t get bored if your game is good. People still play Dota and the original Counter strike today. However, arenanet seem completely clueless as to what the problems in their game are. Look at the ghost thief debacle, whether it was pure coincidence or not, the fact it gets fixed a couple of weeks after someone abuses a raid boss with it instead of when heaps of people bring it up in wvw just leaves a bad taste in people’s mouths. Not only that, they fix it with the most inelegant solution too.

If gw2 pvp is heading to the grave, arenanet are holding the shovel.

Alex Shatter.7956:

Gretzel.6790:

Alex Shatter.7956:

I think the real problem with PvP is much more severe: the game is old and people are bored. This game released in 2012-ish and the adrenaline is gone. PvE is expected to age gracefully because it attracts long time fans and casuals, but PvP appeals to short term players who have by now discovered other, newer, better competitive games.

WoW released in 2004 and still has tons and tons of players. Many many more players than GW2 does.

WoW is also one of the most infamously popular video games of all time. That and Starcraft were the League of Legends of their day, and will always have fans. Gw2 never, ever had or was expected to gain that much momentum. All I’m saying is, it isn’t completely Anet’s fault PvP is dying. A lot of it is just natural death

Gw2 was seen as a wow-killer back in it’s dev days when they showed that the various walls and circles would not be crappy, tiny and ineffectual pre-built lines(much like Anet’s (un)balance team, but be able to be drawn with the mouse, because at that time, it had actual innovation, as opposed to what they released.

Gw2 was seen as a wow-killer to no-one but Arenanet. Sad but true.

Alex Shatter.7956:

I think the real problem with PvP is much more severe: the game is old and people are bored. This game released in 2012-ish and the adrenaline is gone. PvE is expected to age gracefully because it attracts long time fans and casuals, but PvP appeals to short term players who have by now discovered other, newer, better competitive games.

I can tell you right now HOT killed it.

Right before everyone started running full d/d ele teams. I was on a PvP team for AG around week 30-40.

My team missed 2 because the AG tournament filled up and i missed 2 to allow the Alt to get some games in.

Thats how good it was, that 10 full teams every week signed up for the Semi- Pro level and 2 Free Agent teams. Thats not including the ESL scene with many players/teams starting new teams and what not.

The WTS happened and Anet dropped the ball big in not nerfing D/D ele. This went on for a few months creating players not wanting to play as much.

Then HOT came out and OMG this was a team killer. If you were on a team and you couldnt play mesmer/ele/rev you were not playing.

Its not the games fault, mechanics are great, animations are pretty good, and conquest is a great style of PvP.

What kills a PvP ( and WvW to add) is build diversity. This was huge, the fact that 1 team comp is so much superior then any other it kills game play. My guild team used to run a showbow warrior, bunker guardian with a DPS necro. We could beat other comps if we could coordinate and if they werent a ESL premade team.

Cant happen now, not even a little.

I have almost 10k games played i did because it was fun, even when there were no rewards. Anet came out with a crappy reward system and that kills motivation for new players.

This games poor build diversity kill average to above average players.

go try wow pvp and you will see that gw2 is fine
i went back for legion and also played some wod
i was nothing but a free kill for German and Russian premades
there was nothing you could do since those guys always play with voice chat
you where always getting steamrolled without mercy and blizzard does nothing about it

Ramoth.9064:

Gw2 was seen as a wow-killer to no-one but Arenanet. Sad but true.

The press did call it one of the possible wow killers but for a while it was popular to call every MMO a possible wow killer (just click bait, quite often) so it means nothing.

This game is old, people grow up and get a job/family, that happens to all games.

jihm.2315:

go try wow pvp and you will see that gw2 is fine
i went back for legion and also played some wod
i was nothing but a free kill for German and Russian premades
there was nothing you could do since those guys always play with voice chat
you where always getting steamrolled without mercy and blizzard does nothing about it

jihm.2315:

free kill for German and Russian premades

jihm.2315:

blizzard does nothing about it

Should they set the queue limit to 2 or ban who use TS?

And why would anyone take this game pvp serious when theres no soloq

TalleFjanten.7159:

And why would anyone take this game pvp serious when theres no soloq

why would anyone take solo queue seriously?

???

Crinn.7864:

TalleFjanten.7159:

And why would anyone take this game pvp serious when theres no soloq

why would I take solo queue seriously?

???

Fixed for you buddy

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

go try wow pvp and you will see that gw2 is fine
i went back for legion and also played some wod
i was nothing but a free kill for German and Russian premades
there was nothing you could do since those guys always play with voice chat
you where always getting steamrolled without mercy and blizzard does nothing about it

jihm.2315:

free kill for German and Russian premades

jihm.2315:

blizzard does nothing about it

Should they set the queue limit to 2 or ban who use TS?

they should leave it as it is i dont care any more
2 man q is better than 10-40 man premades
also Russians team up only with Russians there and same goes for Germans
wow pvp is atrocious

jihm.2315:

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

go try wow pvp and you will see that gw2 is fine
i went back for legion and also played some wod
i was nothing but a free kill for German and Russian premades
there was nothing you could do since those guys always play with voice chat
you where always getting steamrolled without mercy and blizzard does nothing about it

jihm.2315:

free kill for German and Russian premades

jihm.2315:

blizzard does nothing about it

Should they set the queue limit to 2 or ban who use TS?

they should leave it as it is i dont care any more
2 man q is better than 10-40 man premades
also Russians team up only with Russians there and same goes for Germans
wow pvp is atrocious

Nono, i can tell you that when i was playing WoW i’ve done better game when playing with my guild mates
If you are saying that 2 man queue is more.. fair.. than a premade..
if anyone can group, log TS and play as a team it’s a fair match.

Vitali.5039:

I’m against solo-only or N-only, but why not allow to join as a team?
If someone want to win must chose his teams.. duo que is like playing football with your best friend and the first passing, but you can have way more fun playing with 5 friends vs 5 other random.. or vs other 5 man team!
Footballers have a 11+ “premade” and have individual value.
Unranked>Ranked

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

go try wow pvp and you will see that gw2 is fine
i went back for legion and also played some wod
i was nothing but a free kill for German and Russian premades
there was nothing you could do since those guys always play with voice chat
you where always getting steamrolled without mercy and blizzard does nothing about it

jihm.2315:

free kill for German and Russian premades

jihm.2315:

blizzard does nothing about it

Should they set the queue limit to 2 or ban who use TS?

they should leave it as it is i dont care any more
2 man q is better than 10-40 man premades
also Russians team up only with Russians there and same goes for Germans
wow pvp is atrocious

Nono, i can tell you that when i was playing WoW i’ve done better game when playing with my guild mates
If you are saying that 2 man queue is more.. fair.. than a premade..
if anyone can group, log TS and play as a team it’s a fair match.

Vitali.5039:

I’m against solo-only or N-only, but why not allow to join as a team?
If someone want to win must chose his teams.. duo que is like playing football with your best friend and the first passing, but you can have way more fun playing with 5 friends vs 5 other random.. or vs other 5 man team!
Footballers have a 11+ “premade” and have individual value.
Unranked>Ranked

and what if they dont?
some people want to play with the skills of their character not their voice
and footballers cannot chat from one side of the pitch to the other
they dont use headsets and microphones

jihm.2315:

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

go try wow pvp and you will see that gw2 is fine
i went back for legion and also played some wod
i was nothing but a free kill for German and Russian premades
there was nothing you could do since those guys always play with voice chat
you where always getting steamrolled without mercy and blizzard does nothing about it

jihm.2315:

free kill for German and Russian premades

jihm.2315:

blizzard does nothing about it

Should they set the queue limit to 2 or ban who use TS?

they should leave it as it is i dont care any more
2 man q is better than 10-40 man premades
also Russians team up only with Russians there and same goes for Germans
wow pvp is atrocious

Nono, i can tell you that when i was playing WoW i’ve done better game when playing with my guild mates
If you are saying that 2 man queue is more.. fair.. than a premade..
if anyone can group, log TS and play as a team it’s a fair match.

Vitali.5039:

I’m against solo-only or N-only, but why not allow to join as a team?
If someone want to win must chose his teams.. duo que is like playing football with your best friend and the first passing, but you can have way more fun playing with 5 friends vs 5 other random.. or vs other 5 man team!
Footballers have a 11+ “premade” and have individual value.
Unranked>Ranked

and what if they dont?
some people want to play with the skills of their character not their voice
and footballers cannot chat from one side of the pitch to the other
they dont use headsets and microphones

It’s because they act like a team, like you say, without having headset and microphones.
Cause they are a team, not a bunch of sheeps.
They always play together and they known their role.
Also, playing without character’s skill.. well, could be problematic.

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

Vitali.5039:

jihm.2315:

go try wow pvp and you will see that gw2 is fine
i went back for legion and also played some wod
i was nothing but a free kill for German and Russian premades
there was nothing you could do since those guys always play with voice chat
you where always getting steamrolled without mercy and blizzard does nothing about it

jihm.2315:

free kill for German and Russian premades

jihm.2315:

blizzard does nothing about it

Should they set the queue limit to 2 or ban who use TS?

they should leave it as it is i dont care any more
2 man q is better than 10-40 man premades
also Russians team up only with Russians there and same goes for Germans
wow pvp is atrocious

Nono, i can tell you that when i was playing WoW i’ve done better game when playing with my guild mates
If you are saying that 2 man queue is more.. fair.. than a premade..
if anyone can group, log TS and play as a team it’s a fair match.

Vitali.5039:

I’m against solo-only or N-only, but why not allow to join as a team?
If someone want to win must chose his teams.. duo que is like playing football with your best friend and the first passing, but you can have way more fun playing with 5 friends vs 5 other random.. or vs other 5 man team!
Footballers have a 11+ “premade” and have individual value.
Unranked>Ranked

and what if they dont?
some people want to play with the skills of their character not their voice
and footballers cannot chat from one side of the pitch to the other
they dont use headsets and microphones

It’s because they act like a team, like you say, without having headset and microphones.
Cause they are a team, not a bunch of sheeps.
They always play together and they known their role.
Also, playing without character’s skill.. well, could be problematic.

thats what people do play as a team except few exceptions
when they give football players headsets we discuss this again

i dont understand what you say the only thing that a know it is that is MMO game and they dont let you play with your friend with your guild , if i want to play alone i will play call of duty not an MMO game

aggelos r.5387:

i dont understand what you say the only thing that a know it is that is MMO game and they dont let you play with your friend with your guild , if i want to play alone i will play call of duty not an MMO game

Jesus mate you are in the wrong forum

I can see the value and attraction of teams. The problem is that teams got placed against solos and abused it heavily.

Now, “pre-made” is a term of insult. This is the fault of the teams who steamrolled solos and often verbally abused them in the process.

Ithilwen.1529:

I can see the value and attraction of teams. The problem is that teams got placed against solos and abused it heavily.

Now, “pre-made” is a term of insult. This is the fault of the teams who steamrolled solos and often verbally abused them in the process.

C’mon Ithilwen, I’ve been in games with you and you are no stranger to the trash talk. This isn’t something that only applies to teams.

True enough. I am a bad sport when I get hammered. That’s beside the point though.

The point is that teams used it to “farm” solos. That’s a major reason population is the way it is now.

Three straight losses in unranked this evening, all to premades.