Guild Wars 2

Please try to discuss this in a constructive matter.

Remember that this are just my opinions and not facts.

Warning, this will be a somewhat large wall of text.
TLDR version: tPvP needs alot of work and urgently.

Issue 1.
Game mode(conquest):
- Cap Mechanism making bunker builds a necessity.
This pigeonholes alot of classes into bunker builds and completely negates the fact that the other builds need work from arena.net.

Proposed Solution:
- Change the point holding mechanism and/or add more game modes.

Issue 2:
- Downed State in PvP:
Glaring imbalances in classes and makes this game more about numbers then skill, this can easily be the one issue that will break GW2 as an esport.

Proposed solution:
- Rework downstate in sPvP,making it the same for all classes.
Or at least less hp, less damage, easier to interrupt reviving and faster stomping would help.

Issue 3:
- Class swapping:
While this somewhat promotes skill(mastering alot of classes) it also promotes a sense that classes will only be good in some situations.
It leads to unbalanced team compositions in many of the maps.

Solution: Lock the teams on class and not user.

Issue 4:
- Class imbalance:
This point always needs work in all games, at this point tPvP is preety much a 3 class game and it’s devolving from a somewhat balanced state to a fixed meta in alot of maps.

Solution: Push class balancing as a top priority.

Issue 5:
- sPvP lacks a sense of accomplishment:
Again, this is a personal opinion, but sPvP rewards could use a rework, glory is gained in all modes, skins are somewhat random and there’s little to no reward.

Solution: Integrate either a ranking system and/or rewards that can be used in other areas of the game(skins, titles).

There’s quite a few more issues, but i do believe this are the top5.

Thank you for reading.

Bump.

Looking for some feedback.

I don’t tPvP much and have pretty much stopped sPvP for most part because there’s simply no point to it aside from testing new builds.

Yes, that’s preety much point 5.

While doing it for fun is fine (that’s what i do), in a MMO having a part of the game that doesn’t translate to the rest is an issue to lots of people.

Cosmetic rewards and titles that can be used on wvwvw and pve would help quite a bit.

1: Bunkers are terribly boring to play and play against. Imo this is game breaking for balance and fun. No idea how to fix. Different game modes would probably cause problems with class swapping. in matches and balancing classes/compositions for each game mode.

2: While I don’t necessarily like using/dealing with the downed state, I think it works with PvP. Having more people should matter, and it helps a great deal with bursty builds one shoting people, leaving , then trying to 1 shot the second person. You need combat sustain to stomp someone.

3. Don’t like this either. Should be an easy fix. Don’t like ability swapping in match either.

4. I think this is the result of #1. This is kind of the “effect” of the “cause”.

5. They do give you titles for pvp’ing. Don’t know if you can use them elsewhere. I enjoy getting glory to collect the cosmetic rewards. Wasn’t there talk of a matchmaking sometime? aka you’re ranking system?

Imo #1 >>>>>> any other number, because it’s almost as if we’re playing a version of the game that not close to how it’s supposed to be? How can we have a valid opinion on how it’s supposed to be or feedback on classes?

At first, i was about to agree with some points, but then i realized how the game changed for me in last week.

Yes, i have seen something you describe in FREE tournaments, but what worked well in FREE doesnt really work that good in PAID tournaments.

Therefore i realized the levels of the game. Hot-join = full zerging easy mode pew pew. No strategy, just pew pew and glory farming.
FREE – anything could happend. Its like you play starcraft 2 bronze league. you see teams but they mostly do what they consider easy and good and thats where bunkers are comming in.
then next level PAID. best defense is a sucessfull offense. Good players will kill your bunker in few seconds. I see still double guards in PAID bud not anymore both bunkers. The strategy totaly evolve on different level.

so what im trying to say.. we still need time. I think Anet should now balance the PAID tournaments and then we see..

Good post OP. I think you hit the nail pretty much on the head with this list.

Bump for further discussion.

Updating:
Payed meta is preety much the same as Free meta at this point.

3/4/5 bunker build teams, Mesmer for Trebuchet, include random extra depending on setups.

The only change is that some teams are now using Necro bunkers and roamer Mesmers in order to counter boon heavy guardian teams.

I’d like to add that bunker heavy setups also make the downed state issue worse, the fact that bunker builds are the best rezzers adds to the issue.

Thank you for the constructive feedback.

Hotjoin: No real rank/rating system, no match making, no incentive to win, mindless zerg is not fun.
Free Tourney: No real rank/rating system, no match making, PUG vs Premade, not fun.
Paid Tourney: Why I need to PAY to play in a PvP game is beyond my understanding. Still no real rank/rating system, no match making, not fun.

Those are the major issues that makes sPvP not fun. All other bugs and balance issues are minor.

Op is much too melodramatic. In my view from many hours of tpvp, the only real issues are mesmer portals and prof switching.

All profs are well represented in paid and free tourney, except for the ranger maybe. Burst and direct damage still have a place, despite the condition/bunker meta. Bunkers can be brought down by organized condition heavy teams, but they could use a nerf. Whether you build for burst or conditions you must have more sustain, compared to spvp let’s say. Every prof can build for sustain and something else.

Roaming is another highly viable role.

Do we need more game modes? Sure. But balance is far from messy. Expect many problems to get resolved on the 15th

@ShRNA

You need to PAY to play in a PvP game because everyone gets rewarded for their efforts. It’s beyond MY understanding as to why people cannot understand the concept that paid tournaments are for those that actually work at PvP day in and day out to get better. Paids are for the best teams, not for pugs. That’s why there are free tournaments.

nerva, not melodramatic at all.

Just raising some issues.

I’ve played alot of tpvp and i cannot agree with you when you disregard issues like the downstate, pigeonholing of classes and mainly the lack of a reason to do tournaments and structured pvp.

If you’re talking about 8vs8 and to a minor degree free tournaments, yes you’ll see most classes.

If you’re talking tournament winners and payed tournaments you won’t, and that’s the issue with class balancing at the moments, also you’ll see the exact same builds, not classes, which just enhances the problem.

Can’t say I agree with these being at the top of the issues list, but there are some good points…

For me personally I’d love to see changes/tweaks made so that every comp isnt Mesmer/Guardian/X/X/X namely portal and some survivability changes with compensations coming in where needed. After that I’d hope they take a look at some runes that are causing problems(Svanir/Air) come to mind.

I also hope when they said they’re going to tone down spike damage they weren’t only talking about thieves and were looking at the game as a whole, I think if you’re going for making your game fun to play/watch you need to find a balance between people dying instantly and never dying.

That being said for a new game the balance really is pretty good, there’s ways to work around many of the current issues though not all of them. I just feel like they need to change a few things to make the game more fun for all levels of play and better overall at a competitive level.

Issue 0.
Free tournaments:
- Pugs matched against premades.

Proposed Solution:
- Have different queues, and let solo players enjoy the game instead of feeding them to premades.

tichorum.2415:

@ShRNA

You need to PAY to play in a PvP game because everyone gets rewarded for their efforts. It’s beyond MY understanding as to why people cannot understand the concept that paid tournaments are for those that actually work at PvP day in and day out to get better. Paids are for the best teams, not for pugs. That’s why there are free tournaments.

Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in PvE dungeons and they dont need to PAY to start it.
Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in PvE events and they dont need to PAY to start it.
Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in WvW and they dont need to PAY to start it.
Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in GW1 GvG and they dont need to PAY to start it.
Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in WoW arenas and they dont need to PAY to start it.
The best teams are defined by their rating and ranking, not by PAY.

Hey guys, some of the complaints in this thread have lead me to voice a counter argument to the OP.

I main and play arguably the most under powered profession currently, the ranger, and I find that these imbalances are not so great they cannot be overcome. I’ve acquired 3 qualifier points while only playing ranger on all 3 maps. And no I don’t play bunker either I play roaming burst conditions.

Also with the recent ele down state buffs i found that every single profession’s downstate is effective in one manner or another. I think it adds another element into the game which promotes skill through knowledge and action.

I’ll agree I do wish there was some sort of acknowledgement of my PvP achievements in PvE but I dont see that as a major deal breaker or something even worth acknowledgement in light of other issues.

Speaking of issues I will agree that Paid tournaments are a little weird in the sense they promote competition to the extreme, but they are extremely hard to get into. I’ve got a feeling that the PvP developers are old time e-sports players and will have a hard time devoting time and features toward the casual playerbase… which probably should get more attention than anything else.

But aside from that I find that tPvP is extremely fun and even entertaining to watch. The strategies most teams play with are extremely dynamic and there isnt anything that is glaringly OP or UP that breaks the game (beta jax style if you ever played LoL).

P.S. I cant say things arnt really messed up in 8v8 hotjoins though because i rarely play those :/

HappinessFactory; You are awesome and saved me about 10 minutes of writing.

Tpvp is not broken, just lacks a little bit of polish.

Darnis.4056:

HappinessFactory; You are awesome and saved me about 10 minutes of writing.

Tpvp is not broken, just lacks a little bit of polish.

you’re welcome!

and thanks for the compliment! XD

Buffs to ranger utility skills is going to get them plenty of tournament play. Healing spring is already a bit over the top, and natures renewal is nearly as good as time warp. When their utilities are brought on par, rangers will be doing fine.

i really hope to see some serious portal nerfs on the 15th.

ShRNA.4376:

Why I need to PAY to play in a PvP game is beyond my understanding.

It says paid, but tbh without paying any gems, gold or even that much time… i have like 20 tickets sitting in my bank from the occasional free tournament with friends so it’s actually possible, nay easy, to play paid for free if you think about it…. and it’s to support very competitive teams and deter pug’s after all that’s why it’s separated into paid an free and further to include the non tournaments for trying new builds against random people playing all manner of builds…… it actually makes A LOT of sense

Well besides some balancing and class mechanic bugs, Necromancers have been shafted beyond hope and all viable specs are either crit or condition builds, mostly condition builds which makes speccing dull for the most part. The largest problem keeping GW2 out of any real Esport status is the stupid downed state abilities, and not all downed state abilities are created equal, Warriors have what I refer to as the “do over” resurection bs button , then thieves and mesmers with their endless BS then all the other abilities are not so bad. Some specs are better at finishing off downed players usually heavy armored melee characters with high stability. Which basically means all downed state is, is a way for people to get kill steals off you in pvp matches and screws ranged characters who basically have to try and dps they prey down before he is staked.

I cant figure out why the even implemented it.

Rhydian.5412:

Well besides some balancing and class mechanic bugs, Necromancers have been shafted beyond hope and all viable specs are either crit or condition builds, mostly condition builds which makes speccing dull for the most part. The largest problem keeping GW2 out of any real Esport status is the stupid downed state abilities, and not all downed state abilities are created equal, Warriors have what I refer to as the “do over” resurection bs button , then thieves and mesmers with their endless BS then all the other abilities are not so bad. Some specs are better at finishing off downed players usually heavy armored melee characters with high stability. Which basically means all downed state is, is a way for people to get kill steals off you in pvp matches and screws ranged characters who basically have to try and dps they prey down before he is staked.

I cant figure out why the even implemented it.

I like the downed mechanic it’s annoying but adds a whole level of strategy… also lol necro’s have the MM builds which will own any other class hands down which do not use condition or crit damage and are OP as kitten and I’m more than willing to demonstrate if u so desire

HatoraDe.9582:

I think if you’re going for making your game fun to play/watch you need to find a balance between people dying instantly and never dying.

I believe this is the main issue with tPvP right now. Anet really needs to tune down bunker builds as well as giving burst DPS builds a bit more survivality (in detriment of their damage ofc).

Am I the only one who has seen numerous bunker builds running around with no armor just to rub it in everyones face?

ShRNA.4376:

Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in GW1 GvG and they dont need to PAY to start it.

idd.
but
NOT everyone can do the monthly tournament if they don’t have the qualifying points (?)

the main issue is the meta. you run 2-3-4 bunkers (at least 2) with a thief and mesmer (because thief is broken right now and mesmer is the best all round class) sometimes you run double thief.

double thief and 3 bunkers on the khylo is an instant win. all you need to do is put your two worst ppl on thief and they still get kills because its the easiest class in the game. and yes i have rolled thief and tried it for a while. its too easy.

so what happens is their team will never die because of the huge bunker presence, meaning you wont be able to neutralize before a thief comes back with their broken mobility and pops your health bar like it was a joke. because it is.
the meta is the problem right now

Rhydian.5412:

Am I the only one who has seen numerous bunker builds running around with no armor just to rub it in everyones face?

no. you see this in hotjoin all the time. people who play tournies join up, know they’re proface compared to all these low rank fodders, and play entire games with no armor and just weapons. course, they could be wearing helm/shoulders but still – their point is being made lol.

Theres much more wrong with gw2 pvp system in general… I will refer to my post rather than writing another 7 pages

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Guild-Wars-2-Competitive-Game-Analysis/first#post516198

well seems tpvp is already ruined. thx to streamers i have already seen a lot of copy/paste of their build.
rip originality

Shukran.4851:

well seems tpvp is already ruined. thx to streamers i have already seen a lot of copy/paste of their build.
rip originality

yeah not even a gear advantage how are you supposed to win against better players this way?

RaGe.9834:

Rhydian.5412:

Well besides some balancing and class mechanic bugs, Necromancers have been shafted beyond hope and all viable specs are either crit or condition builds, mostly condition builds which makes speccing dull for the most part. The largest problem keeping GW2 out of any real Esport status is the stupid downed state abilities, and not all downed state abilities are created equal, Warriors have what I refer to as the “do over” resurection bs button , then thieves and mesmers with their endless BS then all the other abilities are not so bad. Some specs are better at finishing off downed players usually heavy armored melee characters with high stability. Which basically means all downed state is, is a way for people to get kill steals off you in pvp matches and screws ranged characters who basically have to try and dps they prey down before he is staked.

I cant figure out why the even implemented it.

I like the downed mechanic it’s annoying but adds a whole level of strategy… also lol necro’s have the MM builds which will own any other class hands down which do not use condition or crit damage and are OP as kitten and I’m more than willing to demonstrate if u so desire

Are you a troll? Because if you`re not then you just full of crap mate. Your “op MM necro” will get stomped by any decent player regardless of class.
If you`re so “willing to demonstrate” as you said, please make a video so we can all see the wonders you perform on your buggy pos MM necro.

RaGe.9834:

Rhydian.5412:

Well besides some balancing and class mechanic bugs, Necromancers have been shafted beyond hope and all viable specs are either crit or condition builds, mostly condition builds which makes speccing dull for the most part. The largest problem keeping GW2 out of any real Esport status is the stupid downed state abilities, and not all downed state abilities are created equal, Warriors have what I refer to as the “do over” resurection bs button , then thieves and mesmers with their endless BS then all the other abilities are not so bad. Some specs are better at finishing off downed players usually heavy armored melee characters with high stability. Which basically means all downed state is, is a way for people to get kill steals off you in pvp matches and screws ranged characters who basically have to try and dps they prey down before he is staked.

I cant figure out why the even implemented it.

I like the downed mechanic it’s annoying but adds a whole level of strategy… also lol necro’s have the MM builds which will own any other class hands down which do not use condition or crit damage and are OP as kitten and I’m more than willing to demonstrate if u so desire

I’d like to see this.

Minion master is like the most prohibitive build a necro can have, as it forces you to devote most of your points into traits you totally can’t run without. Not to mention it leaves you with zero utility skills, and having spent so many points into minions that will disappear as soon as you get Moa’d, makes you, the necro itself, useful like a dirty sock.
Minions themselves will attack whatever they want, IF they attack, so good luck making some use out of it when you’re facing more than one enemy, or a Mesmer.

So yeah, if you’re able to make a Minion master build work in tPVP, by all means, let me see how.