D/D Ele from a Ele player perspective

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

I slide my finger from 1 to 5 and press the next F key and repeat I win all duels cause enemies just face tank me and take the damage

Being ironic by the way, i would’t last 10 seconds in a fight playing like that

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Posted by: Ravenmoon.5318

Ravenmoon.5318

The only safe way to take out ele is to never stop pressuring them. And with all the burning that’s going on, that just ain’t happening. Unless you are necro and you mostly don’t give a $!@#%$ about condis.

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Posted by: Kai.1620

Kai.1620

As an dd ele main, with the current situation post patch, Ele is strong but I honestly don’t think it’s as godly as it used to be. Many many classes can out damage the healing on ele now, and most of the burn on ele isn’t nearly as scary compared to full condi builds like burn guards or condi engi (provided you’re not stupid enough to keep walking through ring of fire).

Here are some tips to beating dd ele.

Burn guards – burn stacks from a Carrion amulet carrying burn specced guard can deal up to 5k dmg PER TICK which is nothing compared to the short duration burn on ele (exception being ring of fire, that does hurt a bit)).

Thiefs – Eles are supposed to counter Thief right now but DD eles get destroyed the same you destroy a necro – cc the kitten out of us. This is why hammer warrior has always been a problem, since the only source of stability is armor of earth and that’s on a 65s cd. With Panic Strike, daze on steal, and two tics of bassi, it’s really not that hard to kill a dd ele. With stealth, it’s pretty easy to wait for shocking aura to disappear, and guys, thiefs, use your steal skill against ele!!! the increased cd and movement when chilled destroys ele like holy crap. You can argue that steal, stealth, bassi etc., are all on cd but guys, my armor of earth cd is waaaaaaaaaaaay longer…and if you chill me, that’s even worse. just saying. And from experience, it appears Cleansing Flame AND Armor of Earth does not break Bassi stone (I guess it’s not considered a stun or a clearable condi?) so the most I can do pop armor of earth to reduce burst dmg ASSUMING IT’S OFF CD.

Warriors – Zerk warrior gs/hammer+rampage is great against ele – cc chain with hammer and they also do a ton of dmg, gs does a ton of dmg and RAMPAGE. Just…pop it and we’re dead, especially with all the ranged cc’s to keep us from running away. the only way I managed to seriously get away is 1) warrior was stupid enough to stay on point to try to cap, so I wait for rampage to end and I go back or 2) I somehow miraculously had both ride the lightning and lightning flash off cd. Arguing that dd ele outputs dps the way zerk classes do is a joke – I’ve seen how mesmers destroy zerk warrior. and I’ve seen how long it takes dd ele to take down a zerk warrior. NOT equivalent.

Mesmers – still destroys every class straight out stealth.

Necro – Cele Signet passes condis back to me so fast even traiting auto cleansing fire on 3 condi AND cleansing with cleansing flame, I’m still getting destroyed. plus, access to chill. Also Minion Master – built like a tank and has cc’s via the minions. DD ele’s even with burn generally can’t deal enough dmg to take down a MM easily.

Engi – condi engi – see burn guard and cele signet necro

DD ele counters – bad thiefs, rangers in range and if I’m not getting 2v1’d, dps medi guards, bunker guards after wasting several minutes and only if we don’t get +1’d, kind of condi rangers mainly because they’re generally not specced to hit as hard with the condi? at least so far I haven’t any trouble with them though that taunt…

DD ele got great sustain but it’s not nearly as good as Bunker guard – we can really only tank up to 2 non-dps based classes (or 1v1 something that deals higher dmg). 3 is impossible. I’ve seen bunker guards manage to tanka 3v1.

I completely agree burn dmg should be nerfed. condi is kind of insane right now and not very many classes can cleanse 6 condis (that’s one thing ele does have, theoretically I THINK I can cleanse 11 condi at around the same time but that requires me to blow ALL my cd’s and that’s assuming there’s no icd for popping cantrips and abusing the cleansing water gm trait). If anet’s going to let condi be this strong, then they need to make it so that not just ele’s can cleanse more than one at a time!

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Posted by: Kai.1620

Kai.1620

Oh, and anyone who still think ele’s are insanely op and/or doesn’t require any skills to play, go roll an Ele. Especially if you’re already got high MMR and/or Dragon rank which matches you up with people who are already at your level when you’re not playing Ele (ie weed out n00b thiefs and other classes who don’t yet know how to use their class).

Come back and let us know your experience.

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Posted by: Archaon.9524

Archaon.9524

Oh, and anyone who still think ele’s are insanely op and/or doesn’t require any skills to play, go roll an Ele. Especially if you’re already got high MMR and/or Dragon rank which matches you up with people who are already at your level when you’re not playing Ele (ie weed out n00b thiefs and other classes who don’t yet know how to use their class).

Come back and let us know your experience.

if you talking about dragon ranks don’t expect ppl to really read what are you writing, any scrub in this game has dragon rank already lmao…on the other hand whoever thinks ele is fine (Or manage to loose 1v1 on point vs any class except maybe celestial nec) should go back to cof p1 as soon as possible cause there’s were he belongs to. Not even asking at what level do you play cause your worthless tryhard to defend celestial eles just speaks for itself i guess.

Not much of a surprise tho that most top players don’t even look at forums when you read stuff like this

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(edited by Archaon.9524)

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Posted by: Kai.1620

Kai.1620

I mean the dragon rank mainly as a way to weed out seriously terrible beginner players who you really can’t expect them to consistently beat anything, therefore you can’t use examples of “oh hey I dd ele’d and beat thiefs all the time” but you’re really only beating people who barely know how to play the class…

and that’s not necessarily true about dragon rank – it’s not that hard to get to but it does require a player to have pvped consistently for quite a while – not always true for new players (who are primarily the ones getting destroyed by classes they’re not familiar with).

but you know what, there’s no point to these forums, I remember why I never read these things now

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Posted by: Archaon.9524

Archaon.9524

I mean the dragon rank mainly as a way to weed out seriously terrible beginner players who you really can’t expect them to consistently beat anything, therefore you can’t use examples of “oh hey I dd ele’d and beat thiefs all the time” but you’re really only beating people who barely know how to play the class…

and that’s not necessarily true about dragon rank – it’s not that hard to get to but it does require a player to have pvped consistently for quite a while – not always true for new players (who are primarily the ones getting destroyed by classes they’re not familiar with).

but you know what, there’s no point to these forums, I remember why I never read these things now

oh you still anwering? cause i’m done with you and this worthless topic…not gonna waste anymore time on this

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

I mean the dragon rank mainly as a way to weed out seriously terrible beginner players who you really can’t expect them to consistently beat anything, therefore you can’t use examples of “oh hey I dd ele’d and beat thiefs all the time” but you’re really only beating people who barely know how to play the class…

and that’s not necessarily true about dragon rank – it’s not that hard to get to but it does require a player to have pvped consistently for quite a while – not always true for new players (who are primarily the ones getting destroyed by classes they’re not familiar with).

but you know what, there’s no point to these forums, I remember why I never read these things now

oh you still anwering? cause i’m done with you and this worthless topic…not gonna waste anymore time on this

Another example of salty brains…in this thread many ele players already sugested several ways to nerf eles…and all of us admit we are op right now.

What this thread is about is the salty attitude some players like you keep showing.

You won’t be missed on this thread.

Have fun

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Oh, and anyone who still think ele’s are insanely op and/or doesn’t require any skills to play, go roll an Ele. Especially if you’re already got high MMR and/or Dragon rank which matches you up with people who are already at your level when you’re not playing Ele (ie weed out n00b thiefs and other classes who don’t yet know how to use their class).

Come back and let us know your experience.

Rolled one. 6 hrs play time and I feel ridiculous in tpvp. It was mainly my peeling abilities while also having the ability to pressure well.

That said, I had an edge on the class considering i have been dueling them for 1800 hours as a Guardian, my main. Their rotation and play style isn’t exactly rocket science.

Not sure why you even listed burn guardian btw. Any class can get the best of another if they’re unaware, or they have 0 cooldowns. It’s pointless listing them otherwise. There’s only two potentials, mesmers and sig necros.

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Posted by: Mbelch.9028

Mbelch.9028

The moment you listed as berserker thieves as a counter to ele was the moment you lost your credibility as a good ele considering you hard counter them.

Wasn’t this you as an ele dueling Caed on a zerker thief? I think he won every fight. This was all pre-specialization patch, when ele sustain was higher but burns were less potent.

https://youtu.be/C_dxpfLm1LU?t=5040

Nope, that’s Mbelch aka Tormentum Nex. And he didn’t use celestial. I know him. He doesn’t like using cele ammy.

Well nex was probably one of if not the best d/d ele in na before cele ele became popular.

Thank you both.

I’ll have you know, Caed was using a direct counter build to me, and I was challenging myself with Berserkers Amulet to attempt to beat it.

I have no shame that I did not.

On this topic, I don’t play much any longer, but eles have always been one of the more skilled classes if you take away celestial amulets. I’ve always held that celestial amulets should be removed from the game.

Good luck everybody.

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

. I’ve always held that celestial amulets should be removed from the game.

Good luck everybody.

/thread


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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

. I’ve always held that celestial amulets should be removed from the game.

Good luck everybody.

/thread

Exactly what the game needs less build diversity…Remove celestial…whait I also dislike playing against conditions remove carrion…but there are also some players that don´t like to play with berzerker, REMOVE IT I SAY

Let´s be serious here, lots of proposals to bring ele in line have been presented. Crying remove this from the game is just salty.

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

Oh, and anyone who still think ele’s are insanely op and/or doesn’t require any skills to play, go roll an Ele. Especially if you’re already got high MMR and/or Dragon rank which matches you up with people who are already at your level when you’re not playing Ele (ie weed out n00b thiefs and other classes who don’t yet know how to use their class).

Come back and let us know your experience.

Rolled one. 6 hrs play time and I feel ridiculous in tpvp. It was mainly my peeling abilities while also having the ability to pressure well.

That said, I had an edge on the class considering i have been dueling them for 1800 hours as a Guardian, my main. Their rotation and play style isn’t exactly rocket science.

Not sure why you even listed burn guardian btw. Any class can get the best of another if they’re unaware, or they have 0 cooldowns. It’s pointless listing them otherwise. There’s only two potentials, mesmers and sig necros.

You’re more than welcome to face a more experienced elementalist and see how those six hours serve you If you think you learned everything you needed, I dare say you can go into duel arenas and lose against lots of comps.

Let´s try to not exaggerate and extrapolate, today you’re doing it to ele tomorrow someone may do it to your profession.

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Posted by: apocom.3172

apocom.3172

. I’ve always held that celestial amulets should be removed from the game.

Good luck everybody.

/thread

Exactly what the game needs less build diversity…Remove celestial…whait I also dislike playing against conditions remove carrion…but there are also some players that don´t like to play with berzerker, REMOVE IT I SAY

If one thing renders everything else useless than removing it can increase build diversity (but maybe Ele is in need of some buffs than)

You’re more than welcome to face a more experienced elementalist and see how those six hours serve you If you think you learned everything you needed, I dare say you can go into duel arenas and lose against lots of comps.

Ofc in a ele vs ele 1vs1 the better ele wins. But I’ve won duells with a few hours on my ele against thieves with a few thousend hours (they were using d/d).

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Posted by: RevanCorana.8942

RevanCorana.8942

I find it hilarious that Cele D/D Ele’s sustains are comparable to a Bunker Guardian, or any bunker class for that matter. The Guard is using a tank amulet, two sustain trees (0 dmg trees mind you) and is 100% spec’d to be a Bunker class.

Exactly, don’t nerf the damage its not really the problem
Nerf the healing signet and remove healing on whip and remove the evade from burning speed.

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

. I’ve always held that celestial amulets should be removed from the game.

Good luck everybody.

/thread

Exactly what the game needs less build diversity…Remove celestial…whait I also dislike playing against conditions remove carrion…but there are also some players that don´t like to play with berzerker, REMOVE IT I SAY

If one thing renders everything else useless than removing it can increase build diversity (but maybe Ele is in need of some buffs than)

Celestial renders everything useless? Exageration at it’s best eles are op right now but there are other classes in meta, this by definition means there are more viable classes and compositions. Cele hate isn´t objective and won´t get you anywhere…try bringing concrete nerfs to the table, we already suggested a few to eles that should be more than enough to bring them in line.

You’re more than welcome to face a more experienced elementalist and see how those six hours serve you If you think you learned everything you needed, I dare say you can go into duel arenas and lose against lots of comps.

Ofc in a ele vs ele 1vs1 the better ele wins. But I’ve won duells with a few hours on my ele against thieves with a few thousend hours (they were using d/d).

Agree that thiefs at this moment are particularly affected by the excessive effectiveness of burning, the solution is not to eliminate celestial, it’s to nerf what makes eles counter pressure thiefs so efficiently, number of burn stacks and increase the cooldown on blind on burn. Doesn´t this seem more reasonable than erppp kitten pp ELIMINATE CELESTIAL!!!!!

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(edited by Talyn Sneider.1825)

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

I find it hilarious that Cele D/D Ele’s sustains are comparable to a Bunker Guardian, or any bunker class for that matter. The Guard is using a tank amulet, two sustain trees (0 dmg trees mind you) and is 100% spec’d to be a Bunker class.

Exactly, don’t nerf the damage its not really the problem
Nerf the healing signet and remove healing on whip and remove the evade from burning speed.

Ele sustain is NOT comparable to bunker guardian as Ele dps is NOT comparable to berzerker classes…exageration as a tool to bring over the top nerfs isn’t a good thing to this game.

Trying to insist on this point is nonsense. Even though i could agree on the removal on evade on burning speed. The other sugestions seem to me exagerated, by doing that you would guarantee that eles no longer can fit their role as team support on team fights.

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Posted by: RevanCorana.8942

RevanCorana.8942

Well to go from godmode to balanced you need to nerf a lot that’s how it works.
The burning stacks hurts but the real issue is the survivability.
They already have constant stability and vigor that’s enough.

(edited by RevanCorana.8942)

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

I already suggested 8 ele nerfs that I feel are highly reasonable. Just go through my post history and you’ll find them. Burning is indeed one of them but everyone knows that one. The other is soothing ice, the icd needs to be raised to 40s or have the regen removed from it to prevent less rng cleanses with soothing disruption. Diamond skin needs a skillful rework in the sense that it procs 4 secs of resistance every time you enter earth above 75% hp. Blinding ashes needs an icd raise to 10 secs but PER target instead of just 1 target icd. Etc. Some things like that I suggested that would bring eles down to a reasonable level. But with how chronomancer looked in the beta…We might need the op ele version to fight them if they don’t rework chronomancers…

Let me sum up all the nerfs suggested:

-Reduce burn stacks on fire skills
-Remove evasion on burning speed
-See quoted post for more suggestions

So instead of saying catchy phrases like eles are Gods do you agree with the nerfs or want to suggest more nerfs, if so, why do you think these nerfs aren’t enough.

Try to avoid salt and lets bring reason into this discussion.

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Posted by: RevanCorana.8942

RevanCorana.8942

lmao let’s say ele is 10% less durable than bunker guard ok? (which is not true, a bunker guard that used his cooldown just die in seconds an ele can kite away and regen)
Still the eles deal 200-300% more damage and ,
AND they have the mobility to disengage and decap.
Explain to me why elementalist would not need heavy nerf granted it is heavily op?

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

lmao let’s say ele is 10% less durable than bunker guard ok? (which is not true, a bunker guard that used his cooldown just die in seconds an ele can kite away and regen)
Still the eles deal 200-300% more damage and ,
AND they have the mobility to disengage and decap.
Explain to me why elementalist would not need heavy nerf granted it is heavily op?

Doesn’t matter what you say.
I am still trying to wrap my head around the build for a mesmer and a thief that can somehow hardcounter an ele. So far, the only class I have seen that can actually hard counter and contest a point with an ele is a necro.

The ele’s are going to be here to defend there class as much as possible.
But what needs to be nerfed has been said and beaten dead.
Sustain and burning for an ele need to be toned down. Unfortunately given anet’s track record the ele will be like this for 6 months.


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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

Let me retry:

Let me sum up all the nerfs suggested:
-Reduce burn stacks on fire skills
-Remove evasion on burning speed
-See quoted post for more suggestions
So instead of saying catchy phrases like eles are Gods do you agree with the nerfs or want to suggest more nerfs, if so, why do you think these nerfs aren’t enough.
Try to avoid salt and lets bring reason into this discussion.

Are u gonna keep being salty or suggest something? if not then I can´t take you seriously

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

lmao let’s say ele is 10% less durable than bunker guard ok? (which is not true, a bunker guard that used his cooldown just die in seconds an ele can kite away and regen)
Still the eles deal 200-300% more damage and ,
AND they have the mobility to disengage and decap.
Explain to me why elementalist would not need heavy nerf granted it is heavily op?

Bunker guardians are supposed in conquest mode to work in tandem with eles in defending nodes, bunker guardians swap with eles and are healed by them and vice versa.

If you nerf ele defensive abilities you are also nerfing bunker guardian roles…way to go if bunker guardian have less support do you think they alone will keep up with this high dps meta? Or do you want this meta to be even more dps oriented? conquest without no kind of holding on points will be a mode where who shoots first wins.

Now can you discuss the nerfs we suggested or are you head strong on salty discussion?

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

. I’ve always held that celestial amulets should be removed from the game.

Good luck everybody.

/thread

Exactly what the game needs less build diversity…Remove celestial…whait I also dislike playing against conditions remove carrion…but there are also some players that don´t like to play with berzerker, REMOVE IT I SAY

If one thing renders everything else useless than removing it can increase build diversity (but maybe Ele is in need of some buffs than)

Celestial renders everything useless? Exageration at it’s best eles are op right now but there are other classes in meta, this by definition means there are more viable classes and compositions. Cele hate isn´t objective and won´t get you anywhere…try bringing concrete nerfs to the table, we already suggested a few to eles that should be more than enough to bring them in line.

You’re more than welcome to face a more experienced elementalist and see how those six hours serve you If you think you learned everything you needed, I dare say you can go into duel arenas and lose against lots of comps.

Ofc in a ele vs ele 1vs1 the better ele wins. But I’ve won duells with a few hours on my ele against thieves with a few thousend hours (they were using d/d).

Agree that thiefs at this moment are particularly affected by the excessive effectiveness of burning, the solution is not to eliminate celestial, it’s to nerf what makes eles counter pressure thiefs so efficiently, number of burn stacks and increase the cooldown on blind on burn. Doesn´t this seem more reasonable than erppp kitten pp ELIMINATE CELESTIAL!!!!!

apocom.3172 beat me to it. For the record, I can beat experienced guards and i’ve even beaten ele’s who had more experience than me. Like apcom said, the more experienced ele will win. I still stand by my original post that Ele’s "Feel ridiculous in tpvp. It was mainly my peeling abilities while also having the ability to pressure well.

Cele was never the culprit per say, it was the Ele’s d/d mechanics that sync’d incredibly well on the amulet. People have suggested numerous nerfs but not all these nerfs are needed. At the moment, most nerfs revolved around the dps potential of the Ele in relation to it’s great sustains, of which, has already been comparable to a bunker class.

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

I know remove cantrips from the game, cele amulet from the game, turn dagger dagger into confetti and replace ele skills with music notes…are you happy now?

To some of you we would still be op as hell

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Posted by: Lettuce.2945

Lettuce.2945

I know remove cantrips from the game, cele amulet from the game, turn dagger dagger into confetti and replace ele skills with music notes…are you happy now?

To some of you we would still be op as hell

Can you kind of like…Stop posting? And stop making troll threads? You’re now coming across as a troll and someone who wants attention. You’re starting to lose your credibility. Not really helping your case right now.

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Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

They already have constant stability and vigor that’s enough.

What did I just read?

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

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Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

I know remove cantrips from the game, cele amulet from the game, turn dagger dagger into confetti and replace ele skills with music notes…are you happy now?

To some of you we would still be op as hell

Can you kind of like…Stop posting? And stop making troll threads? You’re now coming across as a troll and someone who wants attention. You’re starting to lose your credibility. Not really helping your case right now.

Ah sorry didn´t want to pass that impression…just wanted to show what kind of exageration happens regarding op classes. The troll posts were more in the line of
Castigat ridendo mores (laughing corrects morals).

But enough is enough, thanks for being helpfull.

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