Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand why ANET gives EVERYTHING to this class.

They can take away (one or two of those)

1.) The teleport
2.) Blind on burn
3.) Evade on burning speed

And D/D will still be viable. I just don’t understand why you’re allowed to have so much BS. This class literally takes no skill.

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

Again, the only solution to balance and challenge is for a new design team and a new balance team who believe in balance and in challenge. Last: who will take serious action to make balance and challenge a dream come true’

Until than.

Save your time, mind, energy and hope for seriousness.

" Seriousness is the initiative for action "

That is all!

Make boon hate more common and introduce a condition that negates boons for it’s duration and we’re good to go.

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

Well, the things that really brought the DD Cele out of line was the fact that burning started stacking, elemental atunment baseline and the introduction of more passive mitigation. They also mega buffed the fire trait line.

While burning stacking is a good change overall as it opens up builds on a lot of classes in both PvP and PvE, the issue is that they did not really consider stacking so much of it on a might stacking and heavily sustainable build.

The proper course of action here is to pass over Ele fire skills and reduce burning duration and stacks.
- Cleansing fire reduced stacks from 3 to 2
- Ring of fire reduced stacks from 3 to 2
- Drakes breath reduced duration by 1-2 seconds

As far as the sustain goes, I think that starting off with an increased ICD on the ice aura proc and possibly reduced protection duration on the EA earth swap would go a long way as it would open up more of a timing for a spike on the ele.
Also, an interesting thing to consider would be removing the regeneration from the Cantrip mastery and replacing it with a different boon, because Ele is so stacked against conditions that it is virtually immune.

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

Problem is DD ele is neither rock, paper or scissors it’s a kittening terminator.

Nier.8741:

I don’t understand why ANET gives EVERYTHING to this class.

They can take away (one or two of those)

1.) The teleport
2.) Blind on burn
3.) Evade on burning speed

And D/D will still be viable. I just don’t understand why you’re allowed to have so much BS. This class literally takes no skill.

i hope they take away you from the game.

1) teleport on ele NEED a buff , they nerfed it already
2) no comment
3) it was one of the very rare buffs we got after april 13’ nerfed
4) l2p

Blinding ashes need to go, the class already has enough defensives mechanics. Burning also needs base dmg nerf. Those 2 changes already would bring dd eles bit in line with other classes.

I understand people want to faceroll but ele in current state is just too strong and too rewarding. It has close to no downside and fills all roles with 1 build. It is just wrong.

Cynz.9437:

Blinding ashes need to go, the class already has enough defensives mechanics. Burning also needs base dmg nerf. Those 2 changes already would bring dd eles bit in line with other classes.

I understand people want to faceroll but ele in current state is just too strong and too rewarding. It has close to no downside and fills all roles with 1 build. It is just wrong.

+1

I can generally deal with all the other Ele defenses because they have generally long CDs (although they still have a crazy amount of defensive options), but the Blind is basically the thing pushing it over the edge.

Ele’s are weakest if you hammer them hard while they’re in Water or just left Water. You only have a few seconds to really hammer on them in order to down them. That generally implies heaving hitting attacks with big telegraphs. However, with Blinding Ashes apply a fairly long lasting blind with a fairly low CD being able to time a blind to avoid a big hit is child’s play. You don’t even have to do it intentionally.

Combine that with the fact that Mesmers got Blinding Dissipation (did they REALLY need more free stomps?) and D/P still being the Thief meta and it feels like you’re being blinded constantly. If you’re on a fast attacking class that’s all well and dandy for you but if you’re a War, Guard, (in some cases) Engi, etc. this can make the game simply unfun to play.

I thought Blind was bad in GW1 but GW2 has taken things to a new level. Guardians are a good example of Blinds generally done right. They have obvious tells and long enough CDs that they don’t feel excessive generally.

Not EVERYONE is gonna play Warr + Guard just to counter a braindead spec like d/d ele. I don’t understand why this class has so many privileges when they are fine if they take away some of what they have.

And if they nerf D/D ele and then people go Cele Necro after that? Then Warrior and Guard comes back into the meta because those classes are really good vs. Necro.

Nerfing D/D will be a good decision for the game. It will bring SO MANY specs back it’s not even funny.

Chokolata.1870:

Well, the things that really brought the DD Cele out of line was the fact that burning started stacking, elemental atunment baseline and the introduction of more passive mitigation. They also mega buffed the fire trait line.

While burning stacking is a good change overall as it opens up builds on a lot of classes in both PvP and PvE, the issue is that they did not really consider stacking so much of it on a might stacking and heavily sustainable build.

The proper course of action here is to pass over Ele fire skills and reduce burning duration and stacks.
- Cleansing fire reduced stacks from 3 to 2
- Ring of fire reduced stacks from 3 to 2
- Drakes breath reduced duration by 1-2 seconds

As far as the sustain goes, I think that starting off with an increased ICD on the ice aura proc and possibly reduced protection duration on the EA earth swap would go a long way as it would open up more of a timing for a spike on the ele.
Also, an interesting thing to consider would be removing the regeneration from the Cantrip mastery and replacing it with a different boon, because Ele is so stacked against conditions that it is virtually immune.

Now we are talking. This guy knows the underlying problems. However drake’s breath was nerfed already so I think its better to remove evade on burning speed for 2 reasons. 1) Drake’s breath is a long channel so its interruptable etc. 2) Fire is ele’s offensive attunement so with damage should come risk. But you got a lot of evades and blinds so its so low risk while bursting. That needs to be toned down. (Same with imba stealth burst from xyz class). It’s fine that the class has the defensive options it needs due to the low health pool. But the damage shouldn’t be this high.

Ele is my 4th prof in terms of gameplay hours and I am by far best in pvp with her.Not even champion magus yet I frequently win against 1v2s while holding a point (warr thief , thief thief, ranger thief etc.). 1v1 I would only lose to a signet necro with +75% life force. And by losing I mean running away to help a different point. While I’m on an other class against an ele, there is no way I’ll beat him. You either have to 2v1 stunlock or just don’t bother.

akaCryptic.2389:

Chokolata.1870:

Well, the things that really brought the DD Cele out of line was the fact that burning started stacking, elemental atunment baseline and the introduction of more passive mitigation. They also mega buffed the fire trait line.

While burning stacking is a good change overall as it opens up builds on a lot of classes in both PvP and PvE, the issue is that they did not really consider stacking so much of it on a might stacking and heavily sustainable build.

The proper course of action here is to pass over Ele fire skills and reduce burning duration and stacks.
- Cleansing fire reduced stacks from 3 to 2
- Ring of fire reduced stacks from 3 to 2
- Drakes breath reduced duration by 1-2 seconds

As far as the sustain goes, I think that starting off with an increased ICD on the ice aura proc and possibly reduced protection duration on the EA earth swap would go a long way as it would open up more of a timing for a spike on the ele.
Also, an interesting thing to consider would be removing the regeneration from the Cantrip mastery and replacing it with a different boon, because Ele is so stacked against conditions that it is virtually immune.

Now we are talking. This guy knows the underlying problems. However drake’s breath was nerfed already so I think its better to remove evade on burning speed for 2 reasons. 1) Drake’s breath is a long channel so its interruptable etc. 2) Fire is ele’s offensive attunement so with damage should come risk. But you got a lot of evades and blinds so its so low risk while bursting. That needs to be toned down. (Same with imba stealth burst from xyz class). It’s fine that the class has the defensive options it needs due to the low health pool. But the damage shouldn’t be this high.

Ele is my 4th prof in terms of gameplay hours and I am by far best in pvp with her.Not even champion magus yet I frequently win against 1v2s while holding a point (warr thief , thief thief, ranger thief etc.). 1v1 I would only lose to a signet necro with +75% life force. And by losing I mean running away to help a different point. While I’m on an other class against an ele, there is no way I’ll beat him. You either have to 2v1 stunlock or just don’t bother.

The Evade on Burning Speed is excessive imo and I agree with removing it. It’s a skill that makes it very easy for Ele to set up the rest of the Fire chain. if you could interrupt it there would be much more chances for counterplay.

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

Name all those specs that can counter celestial d/d 1v1 on point then..85% wvsw player

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

D/D Ele is a nuke, though.
Anyone who defends the current state of D/D Ele is either oblivious or well aware of his lackluster skill that needs an OP class as a crutch.

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

Bad example my friend. D/D Cele Ele has no counter in the same way that other classes do. That is why the OP is writing a complaint about it.

Ele and Mesmer are both OP in their current states.

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

I’m sorry but the rubbish you just typed forced me to reply. Not sure what game you are playing but if its as easy as your rock paper scissors logic then why has a double d/d cele ele team just won WTS? Why has there been a million threads this last year about the state of this build? Why has this build defined the meta for a year? You think the pvp community (especially top tier players) are so stupid that in the last year they have not found a ‘counter’?? If it has such counter then why are they still god mode?

You say ele has more than 1 counter, what? What counters a cele d/d ele on point? The only possible thing is probably necro. Other than that you have to +1 or +2 or try to out rotate them (good luck). Ele is so strong it does not have a hard counter. I’m talking at high tier play/good players not some hotjoin ele who just spams skills yet still died to mesmer 2 shot burst. Sorry to sound condescending but you talked nonsense.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

Bad example my friend. D/D Cele Ele has no counter in the same way that other classes do. That is why the OP is writing a complaint about it.

Ele and Mesmer are both OP in their current states.

Aw come on people, you’re ruining all the fun >_<

i really wanted a wvsw hero to make a list of all those cele dd 1v1 counters…sunday is always good for some lols

Guess why most top players don’t even bother to read forums…lmao

Liam McColgan.7689:

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

I’m sorry but the rubbish you just typed forced me to reply. Not sure what game you are playing but if its as easy as your rock paper scissors logic then why has a double d/d cele ele team just won WTS? Why has there been a million threads this last year about the state of this build? Why has this build defined the meta for a year? You think the pvp community (especially top tier players) are so stupid that in the last year they have not found a ‘counter’?? If it has such counter then why are they still god mode?

You say ele has more than 1 counter, what? What counters a cele d/d ele on point? The only possible thing is probably necro. Other than that you have to +1 or +2 or try to out rotate them (good luck). Ele is so strong it does not have a hard counter. I’m talking at high tier play/good players not some hotjoin ele who just spams skills yet still died to mesmer 2 shot burst. Sorry to sound condescending but you talked nonsense.

He has a point where you haven’t got any and you actually agree with him. I always find it fascinating to read the forum, so many inconsistencies, hyperbole comments and loads of fanfare, all to hide the truth : people don’t want a counter…they want a counter accessible to their own level of skill, that’s to say that no matter what, you won’t consider counter anything too hard for you to use, this goes for the average forum warrior..who are basically the same 10 cats, been the same folks complaining since launch, so much that everybody knows their name…including the devs.

Back to the point, ele it said to have no counters at high play..when it has been provednotherwise, so what really people are asking is for a counter accessible at their level…which is not high level.

In the end @Sephirot is correct and what you really want is a counter you can personally use but here is the catch:

a class whose hardcounter is available at all level of skill, won’t be ever considered viable, let alone strong…rather it makes the class ready for deletion

If you die to a mesmer or thief..you’re considered a noob because you can’t dodge stealth burst, basically everybody is expected to L2P before facing a mesmer/thief, I don’t see why this “law” should be any different for ele, the devs will make sure that any hardcounter/nerf ele get won’t be of any use for a new player.

Supreme.3164:

Liam McColgan.7689:

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

I’m sorry but the rubbish you just typed forced me to reply. Not sure what game you are playing but if its as easy as your rock paper scissors logic then why has a double d/d cele ele team just won WTS? Why has there been a million threads this last year about the state of this build? Why has this build defined the meta for a year? You think the pvp community (especially top tier players) are so stupid that in the last year they have not found a ‘counter’?? If it has such counter then why are they still god mode?

You say ele has more than 1 counter, what? What counters a cele d/d ele on point? The only possible thing is probably necro. Other than that you have to +1 or +2 or try to out rotate them (good luck). Ele is so strong it does not have a hard counter. I’m talking at high tier play/good players not some hotjoin ele who just spams skills yet still died to mesmer 2 shot burst. Sorry to sound condescending but you talked nonsense.

He has a point where you haven’t got any and you actually agree with him. I always find it fascinating to read the forum, so many inconsistencies, hyperbole comments and loads of fanfare, all to hide the truth : people don’t want a counter…they want a counter accessible to their own level of skill, that’s to say that no matter what, you won’t consider counter anything too hard for you to use, this goes for the average forum warrior..who are basically the same 10 cats, been the same folks complaining since launch, so much that everybody knows their name…including the devs.

Back to the point, ele it said to have no counters at high play..when it has been provednotherwise, so what really people are asking is for a counter accessible at their level…which is not high level.

In the end @Sephirot is correct and what you really want is a counter you can personally use but here is the catch:

a class whose hardcounter is available at all level of skill, won’t be ever considered viable, let alone strong…rather it makes the class ready for deletion

If you die to a mesmer or thief..you’re considered a noob because you can’t dodge stealth burst, basically everybody is expected to L2P before facing a mesmer/thief, I don’t see why this “law” should be any different for ele, the devs will make sure that any hardcounter/nerf ele get won’t be of any use for a new player.

So thief d/p that has a hardcounter (D/d cele ele, burn guard) should be deleted? You keep repeating that “high level players” know how to deal with d/d ele when in WTS 2 eles can hold 4 players of the other team for 3 min in midpoint. d/d ele is not mindblowingly overpowered. They just have a bit too much sustain.

The Abjured didn’t win due to having 2 cele eles, they won because they rotated and knew where to not fight (as in, where their competition was strongest), along with the insane job Magic Toker did to back cap.

ViolentOyster.7534:

Supreme.3164:

Liam McColgan.7689:

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

I’m sorry but the rubbish you just typed forced me to reply. Not sure what game you are playing but if its as easy as your rock paper scissors logic then why has a double d/d cele ele team just won WTS? Why has there been a million threads this last year about the state of this build? Why has this build defined the meta for a year? You think the pvp community (especially top tier players) are so stupid that in the last year they have not found a ‘counter’?? If it has such counter then why are they still god mode?

You say ele has more than 1 counter, what? What counters a cele d/d ele on point? The only possible thing is probably necro. Other than that you have to +1 or +2 or try to out rotate them (good luck). Ele is so strong it does not have a hard counter. I’m talking at high tier play/good players not some hotjoin ele who just spams skills yet still died to mesmer 2 shot burst. Sorry to sound condescending but you talked nonsense.

He has a point where you haven’t got any and you actually agree with him. I always find it fascinating to read the forum, so many inconsistencies, hyperbole comments and loads of fanfare, all to hide the truth : people don’t want a counter…they want a counter accessible to their own level of skill, that’s to say that no matter what, you won’t consider counter anything too hard for you to use, this goes for the average forum warrior..who are basically the same 10 cats, been the same folks complaining since launch, so much that everybody knows their name…including the devs.

Back to the point, ele it said to have no counters at high play..when it has been provednotherwise, so what really people are asking is for a counter accessible at their level…which is not high level.

In the end @Sephirot is correct and what you really want is a counter you can personally use but here is the catch:

a class whose hardcounter is available at all level of skill, won’t be ever considered viable, let alone strong…rather it makes the class ready for deletion

If you die to a mesmer or thief..you’re considered a noob because you can’t dodge stealth burst, basically everybody is expected to L2P before facing a mesmer/thief, I don’t see why this “law” should be any different for ele, the devs will make sure that any hardcounter/nerf ele get won’t be of any use for a new player.

So thief d/p that has a hardcounter (D/d cele ele, burn guard) should be deleted? You keep repeating that “high level players” know how to deal with d/d ele when in WTS 2 eles can hold 4 players of the other team for 3 min in midpoint. d/d ele is not mindblowingly overpowered. They just have a bit too much sustain.

It has been stated that these thief “hardcounter” are not out of the box ready for new players am i right? Therefore any other hardcounters in game should follow the same principle, there is a difference between asking for legit hardcounter and asking to press one button and kill any player of any skill level on a given class. Majority of nerf request about eles would fall in the latter category, while very few sensible people suggested opportunes changes.

Check the forums and you’ll see people asking to remove healing, cleansing, damage, most boons from ele while few ask to reduce/remove there and there, no sane person would agree with the first group of people no?!

Trevor Boyer.6524:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

Bad example my friend. D/D Cele Ele has no counter in the same way that other classes do. That is why the OP is writing a complaint about it.

Ele and Mesmer are both OP in their current states.

Ele is OP in PVP! ok nerf that, kill them like april 13. its okey for me.
Not in WvW! DO NOT nerf that, its not op there.
But Anet nerfs in all game modes, thats why so many ppl are against any nerfs.

Despite all the hate coming from Ele players here, the OP and some others have suggested a couple of sensible changes to the class. The Elementalist is far to strong for the amount of effort you have to put in to master it. What people want is not for anet to break it but to make it fit in with the rest of the classes, as it has been among the 3 strongest classes for over a year now.
Unfortunately once or twice a year when Anet does listen to all the moaning on the forums and blesses us with a blance patch, they overreact to peoples demands and break entire classes. Which starts the moaning anew. However i still doubt that the Anet PvP staff will start working on another balance patch before heart of thorns comes out as they seem so very busy with the stronghold gamemode. So be prepared to face another five month of Elementalist dominance in PvP and bring two of them in your own team and you should hold out long enough for Anet to make the class completely useless

I was going to make an arguement that d/d ele isn’t all that amazing in higher tier play, but it would be pointless to argue since this is like the 100th post on d/d ele being op. Its good and does its job well but will lose 2v1s most of the time if the team doesn’t help rotate.

FrownyClown.8402:

I was going to make an arguement that d/d ele isn’t all that amazing in higher tier play, but it would be pointless to argue since this is like the 100th post on d/d ele being op. Its good and does its job well but will lose 2v1s most of the time if the team doesn’t help rotate.

While the posts are getting pretty annoying, I think we can still all agree the class is a little over the top. I don’t think Anet is going to be preparing any ele nerfs anytime soon though, HoT is on its way and any balance changes before the release of HoT will probably just be a waste of time.

Raif.9507:

The Abjured didn’t win due to having 2 cele eles, they won because they rotated and knew where to not fight (as in, where their competition was strongest), along with the insane job Magic Toker did to back cap.

Oh, and let’s say they didn’t play 2 cele eles. What do you think they could have run to still beat TCG and oRNG? None of them are elite at memser so that is out. Warrior is ok so maybe 1 could have run that. What about the other…. medi guard maybe? They would have gotten beat given their other 3 classes are engi, necro, and thief.

and actually cele ele directly won them the game. It allowed phanta to mess around on the enemy homepoint for long periods of time.

style.6173:

Raif.9507:

The Abjured didn’t win due to having 2 cele eles, they won because they rotated and knew where to not fight (as in, where their competition was strongest), along with the insane job Magic Toker did to back cap.

Oh, and let’s say they didn’t play 2 cele eles. What do you think they could have run to still beat TCG and oRNG? None of them are elite at memser so that is out. Warrior is ok so maybe 1 could have run that. What about the other…. medi guard maybe? They would have gotten beat given their other 3 classes are engi, necro, and thief.

and actually cele ele directly won them the game. It allowed phanta to mess around on the enemy homepoint for long periods of time.

Tbh oRNG had what it took to beat Abjured, but if oRNG didn’t have a d/d ele (such as Denshee on it) abjured would’ve beat them all day.

D/D ele just deletes the point of taking other classes into a team comp. Really pointless, there is no excuse for this bad balancing.

P.S I believe Abjured still would’ve took the game even if d/d ele wasn’t meta. They ARE the superior players.

Just here to say this because it keeps getting repeated: ELEMENTAL ATTUNEMENT IS NOT BASELINE.

The Ele only got Blasting Staff as baseline.
Also, Burning is to blame for the “OPness”. I believe that toning down Burn damage in general or the stacks Ele can put on you(and fixing Ring of Fire since it’s a little buggy) and Ele should be fine. Hard to kill, very, but then again, they’re stacking a ton of defense and taking 3x Cantrips. It’ll still win through attrition, but it can’t deal such crazy damage so fast.

Burn damage from eles is very easy to avoid. When they shoot forward strafe to the side and toward where they came from. When they breath fire, walk out of the way. When they put down ring of fire, don’t walk through it several times. And if you do get burning, cleanse it. That’s 90% of their damage mitigated right there.

Raif.9507:

The Abjured didn’t win due to having 2 cele eles, they won because they rotated and knew where to not fight (as in, where their competition was strongest), along with the insane job Magic Toker did to back cap.

And they were able to do that because … ?

Oh right, they had 2 extremely mobile dps bunker (aka D/D ele).

Supreme.3164:

Liam McColgan.7689:

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

I’m sorry but the rubbish you just typed forced me to reply. Not sure what game you are playing but if its as easy as your rock paper scissors logic then why has a double d/d cele ele team just won WTS? Why has there been a million threads this last year about the state of this build? Why has this build defined the meta for a year? You think the pvp community (especially top tier players) are so stupid that in the last year they have not found a ‘counter’?? If it has such counter then why are they still god mode?

You say ele has more than 1 counter, what? What counters a cele d/d ele on point? The only possible thing is probably necro. Other than that you have to +1 or +2 or try to out rotate them (good luck). Ele is so strong it does not have a hard counter. I’m talking at high tier play/good players not some hotjoin ele who just spams skills yet still died to mesmer 2 shot burst. Sorry to sound condescending but you talked nonsense.

He has a point where you haven’t got any and you actually agree with him. I always find it fascinating to read the forum, so many inconsistencies, hyperbole comments and loads of fanfare, all to hide the truth : people don’t want a counter…they want a counter accessible to their own level of skill, that’s to say that no matter what, you won’t consider counter anything too hard for you to use, this goes for the average forum warrior..who are basically the same 10 cats, been the same folks complaining since launch, so much that everybody knows their name…including the devs.

Back to the point, ele it said to have no counters at high play..when it has been provednotherwise, so what really people are asking is for a counter accessible at their level…which is not high level.

In the end @Sephirot is correct and what you really want is a counter you can personally use but here is the catch:

a class whose hardcounter is available at all level of skill, won’t be ever considered viable, let alone strong…rather it makes the class ready for deletion

If you die to a mesmer or thief..you’re considered a noob because you can’t dodge stealth burst, basically everybody is expected to L2P before facing a mesmer/thief, I don’t see why this “law” should be any different for ele, the devs will make sure that any hardcounter/nerf ele get won’t be of any use for a new player.

Sorry i’m gonna respectfully say, you talk as much dribble as he does. WTF do you mean, accessible to your skill level????! There is no hard counter to d/d ele at ANY skill level. IF both players are bad, ele wins, if both players are good, ele wins. HE said there are more than 1. I’m asking him to tell me JUST ONE.

He claims rock paper scissors logic, which simple doesnt exist for d/d ele.

And you do realise people are calling for nerfs NOT because you cant win a 1v1 or they cannot be bothered to find a counter to them (who 1v1s an ele unless you are a bunker and only then if you are contesting/defending a cap). They are a bunker, just like any other bunker, but they have amazing mobility, condi cleanse, sustain, peels, access to combo fields, might stacking etc etc. All this is too much. If you cannot see that or acknowledge it then thats your choice.

My suggestions:

Cleansing Fire: 1 stack of burning instead of 3 and duration increased to 6 seconds. Overall damage is halved as this could hit over 4k with celestial (requires 25 might stacks or burning duration runes/sigil). Which is just too high for an instant skill with great defensive utility.
Ring of fire: Same thing, 1 stack duration for 8 seconds (perhaps a small icd per target to prevent it bugging and giving multiple stacks instantly).
Reducing stacks and increasing duration makes the burning behave more like actual damage over time rather than burst damage. This also gives you more time to cleanse before taking much damage while taking substantially less damage even if you don’t cleanse. Increasing the duration also helps with uptime on the fire grandmaster minor which helps power eles which currently kind of suck.

Burning Fire: Might on cantrip reduced in duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds base. Gaining might from cantrips is much more passive with less counter play than comboing off of fields. Reduced duration of stacks rather than number of stacks as I believe that might should be something you stack before a big burst rather than something that is just always at high stacks all the time. Unfortunately A-net seems to think differently (see battle sigil change and duration of most might sources).

Start there, I think that will be plenty though I could be wrong.

FrownyClown.8402:

d/d ele isn’t all that amazing in higher tier play,

Many top teams run double ele comps.

Nier.8741:

I don’t understand why ANET gives EVERYTHING to this class.

They can take away (one or two of those)

1.) The teleport
2.) Blind on burn
3.) Evade on burning speed

And D/D will still be viable. I just don’t understand why you’re allowed to have so much BS. This class literally takes no skill.

look i was toyed with earlier today by an ele even made a post about it but i wasn’t screaming op.learn from it.i did it will make me a better pvp player imo

witcher.3197:

FrownyClown.8402:

d/d ele isn’t all that amazing in higher tier play,

Many top teams run double ele comps.

all top teams run double ele actually

Hm, the reason why Ele is running rampant is because there’s not enough condi in the competitive meta right now.

Engies don’t put out enough of it and there are no good Necros willing to play condi (apart from Djooce but he rarely plays).

Anyway, condi is the counter to the current meta of vamp runes and survivability but no one is willing to put together a team with “counter comping” in mind.

Dirame.8521:

Hm, the reason why Ele is running rampant is because there’s not enough condi in the competitive meta right now.

Engies don’t put out enough of it and there are no good Necros willing to play condi (apart from Djooce but he rarely plays).

Anyway, condi is the counter to the current meta of vamp runes and survivability but no one is willing to put together a team with “counter comping” in mind.

I think you mean boon hate instead of conditions.

Liam McColgan.7689:

Supreme.3164:

Liam McColgan.7689:

sephiroth.4217:

Novuake.2691:

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

This is the dumbest argument ever, if one class has more of everything from mitigation to dmg to support in one build than most classes have in their whole kit nd only has one counter, a soft counter at that, it should be adjusted.

Stop thinking of it as l2P or l2counterplay, one class just should not have so much going for it. Geez

It wasn’t an argument it was a statement….

Ele has more than 1 counter aswell, it really is a learn to play thing… And I don’t mean learn to play your class, I mean learn to play the game… The game design really hasn’t changed in 3 years, it’s ALWAYS been build and class reliant on who will win, skill is a minor factor at most rates as this game was built and designed for casuals.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just my perspective having 2-3 of every class made and geared around PvP and WvW only.

I’m sorry but the rubbish you just typed forced me to reply. Not sure what game you are playing but if its as easy as your rock paper scissors logic then why has a double d/d cele ele team just won WTS? Why has there been a million threads this last year about the state of this build? Why has this build defined the meta for a year? You think the pvp community (especially top tier players) are so stupid that in the last year they have not found a ‘counter’?? If it has such counter then why are they still god mode?

You say ele has more than 1 counter, what? What counters a cele d/d ele on point? The only possible thing is probably necro. Other than that you have to +1 or +2 or try to out rotate them (good luck). Ele is so strong it does not have a hard counter. I’m talking at high tier play/good players not some hotjoin ele who just spams skills yet still died to mesmer 2 shot burst. Sorry to sound condescending but you talked nonsense.

He has a point where you haven’t got any and you actually agree with him. I always find it fascinating to read the forum, so many inconsistencies, hyperbole comments and loads of fanfare, all to hide the truth : people don’t want a counter…they want a counter accessible to their own level of skill, that’s to say that no matter what, you won’t consider counter anything too hard for you to use, this goes for the average forum warrior..who are basically the same 10 cats, been the same folks complaining since launch, so much that everybody knows their name…including the devs.

Back to the point, ele it said to have no counters at high play..when it has been provednotherwise, so what really people are asking is for a counter accessible at their level…which is not high level.

In the end @Sephirot is correct and what you really want is a counter you can personally use but here is the catch:

a class whose hardcounter is available at all level of skill, won’t be ever considered viable, let alone strong…rather it makes the class ready for deletion

If you die to a mesmer or thief..you’re considered a noob because you can’t dodge stealth burst, basically everybody is expected to L2P before facing a mesmer/thief, I don’t see why this “law” should be any different for ele, the devs will make sure that any hardcounter/nerf ele get won’t be of any use for a new player.

Sorry i’m gonna respectfully say, you talk as much dribble as he does. WTF do you mean, accessible to your skill level????! There is no hard counter to d/d ele at ANY skill level. IF both players are bad, ele wins, if both players are good, ele wins. HE said there are more than 1. I’m asking him to tell me JUST ONE.

He claims rock paper scissors logic, which simple doesnt exist for d/d ele.

And you do realise people are calling for nerfs NOT because you cant win a 1v1 or they cannot be bothered to find a counter to them (who 1v1s an ele unless you are a bunker and only then if you are contesting/defending a cap). They are a bunker, just like any other bunker, but they have amazing mobility, condi cleanse, sustain, peels, access to combo fields, might stacking etc etc. All this is too much. If you cannot see that or acknowledge it then thats your choice.

The reason why you find opposition is because eles players are well aware of you what you state but the proposed solution while logical would also destroy the profession, if only ele sustain would be moved more from traits to weapon skills, then you would not find such fierce opposition.

Unfortunately the ele sustain is 100% trait based regardless of the way you play, this means that not matter how you play , there is little chance to recognize mechanical skill between an ele and another.

Any nerf on ele to be effective must hit obviously the traits and that would hit every ele player indiscriminately noobs and pro.

The best course of action would be to apply design changes on ele, nothing hard, just move most sustain coming from traits to weapon skill, simply add active defense to ele.
Then reduce/improve sustain coming from traits, simply push the ele sustain from being trait based to player based

Simply eles are asking for a couple builds that when played well, they become very strong but the kind of nerfs you normally see on the forum would make that impossible, so in the end you’d lose on ele no matter the level of skill.

Also by moving sustain from traits to weapon skill, would allow the devs to push a weapon set into one direction or another, they would be able to make so that a d/d ele can’t even think to bunker a point, only a staff ele should be able to do so

Then a team would have to choose between a staff ele and a shout guardian, between a tanky DPS roamer as d/d or burst roamer as thief; a nerf bombardment does nothing but infuriate players

I think that it would hardly be the end of the world if the Ele even fell out of the meta for a while, and by that I do not mean never used, but I mean not being a sure slot and sometimes two on every PvP team or dungeon run.

Them thief tiers about ele make me so happy.

I doubt that the majority of people care to see their favourite profession having a spot in every team, they simply want a competitive profession, but if we start talking about “sure spot” then there “some” other profession who had a sure spot in any team since launch, am I right?

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

Reference used in pvp forums for what? 10 years?

Sadly you miss the point of the never ending QQ train against D/D eles, they steam roll everyone and have access to everything. I’ve even rarely found D/D elemental a argue that they aren’t OP as hell, very rarely do you have one of the players that rely on the OP build as is to say that, no in fact they are good players and everyone else simply isn’t as good as them. Re roll something that can counter me (D/D ele)

“Please nerf shotgun,

Sincerely rock, paper and scissors."

Turns out I caused some drama lol…

I’ll be more specific, like I probably should have been in the first place.

Ele is not OP at all as a class, It’s burn stacking causing the distress to most people and the low CD on blinding ashes…. That doesn’t make the class OP, it makes burn OP…..

As for people laughing and wanting specs to beat a D/D ele, I’ll give you my celestial troll trap ranger build which WILL DESTROY any melee class that attempts to kill you

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAnY8fjEqQ7K2tCmrAXLGcEqP1P9SnDgJ/y7vNWrgT+VqeB-TZhAwAfeAAw2fAwRAozJBQcZAA

it’s stiff as all hell to work with, but guess what? It melts an ele, it melts thieves, it melts guardians (even sentinal), it melts wars…. Wanna know why it melts so hard? Because of burn, purely burn and 14+ stacks of it….

Other builds that I know I can beat an Ele with follows as such:

Celestial Signant Necro.
Condition Boon Corruption Necro
Kit engie with bombs
Celestial trap ranger
Condition ranger
Power longbow ranger
Celestial burn medi guard
S/D carrion ele
Zerker hammer/GS warrior with bulls charge
Power shatter mesmer
Condition shatter mes
Manipulation celestial mesmer
Condition boon ripping thief with caltrops on utility bar

Those builds I can beat a D/D ele with, some it’s harder than most but just like life, a little energy and effort into learning things will take you a long way, If you actually give it a go and put the effort into learning ways to counter other classes and builds and have the energy to keep trying until you succeed then you will start to reap the rewards of your hard work…

And yes it’s 10% PvP player, only phoenix after 7500 hours of the game.

Listing builds saying they can beat an Ele doesn’t make it true. What 1v1 video between 2 capable players would indicate that a power longbow ranger would even tickle a d/d ele in a 1v1?

Trap ranger that will destroy every class that attempts to kill you except anything that has potent condi remover or condi back at your face skills. Hok.

NutellaCrepe.6745:

Listing builds saying they can beat an Ele doesn’t make it true. What 1v1 video between 2 capable players would indicate that a power longbow ranger would even tickle a d/d ele in a 1v1?

Trap ranger that will destroy every class that attempts to kill you except anything that has potent condi remover or condi back at your face skills. Hok.

Like I said, those are builds that I can beat an ele with

no point in arguing the difference in our skill levels, if you’re not willing to put the energy and effort into learning ways to counter classes, then by all means keep screaming at the forums for nerfs.

sephiroth.4217:

Ele is not OP at all as a class, It’s burn stacking causing the distress to most people and the low CD on blinding ashes…. That doesn’t make the class OP, it makes burn OP…..

Not really. Burn is only really a considered an issue on DD ele and maybe on burn guardian (although that’s debatable). It would be silly to nerf burn across the board because of 1(or 2) profession(s). The burning damage is a big part of the DD ele problem IMO, but not the entire problem. DD elementalists can do just about anything and everything, and are top tier at most of it too. That should just never be the case.

Also, sorry man, but most of the builds you listed wouldn’t stand a chance against a well played DD ele 1v1. Unless your opponent just triggers all your traps and stands still in them or there’s a very large skill gap between the players, there’s no way your celestial trapper build is gonna win either.

sephiroth.4217:

NutellaCrepe.6745:

Listing builds saying they can beat an Ele doesn’t make it true. What 1v1 video between 2 capable players would indicate that a power longbow ranger would even tickle a d/d ele in a 1v1?

Trap ranger that will destroy every class that attempts to kill you except anything that has potent condi remover or condi back at your face skills. Hok.

Like I said, those are builds that I can beat an ele with

I beat an Ele while I was on the phone pressing 111111111 and didn’t move a single step, I’m not going to go out telling everyone Ele’s are fine because I beat an Ele who was most likely not playing their best.

Supreme.3164:

The best course of action would be to apply design changes on ele, nothing hard, just move most sustain coming from traits to weapon skill, simply add active defense to ele.
Then reduce/improve sustain coming from traits, simply push the ele sustain from being trait based to player based

This right here is the single biggest reason that holds ele balance back, and has done so since the release of the game. Ele is really the only class in the game where all of it’s defense comes from (very few specific) utilities and traits, instead of being spread around all over the class, especially some weapon skills.

Eles have the lowest health and lowest armor of all classes so they should have adequate defensive mechanics. So Mesmers have stealth and low cooldowns blocks and evades on their weapons, and invulnerability from their class mechanic. Thieves have plenty semi-spammable interrupts, blinds, stealth (combos), evades, teleports and movement abilities. Guardians have low health too, but the highest armor, and they have low-ish cooldown blocks, heals, protection and aegis on weapon and class skills, and low-ish cooldown leaps and teleports.

All of the listed defensive maneuvers are possible on those classes even without traits or specific utility skills.

And eles have… Auras. And some long cooldown hard CC moves that other classes have too though usually.

Without traits and specific utilities, eles as basically almost unplayable, especially compared to other classes in the same situation.

For eles to ever see some build variety, and therefore more overall balance (more sameish power builds with different strengths and weaknesses instead of a single all-dominating one), quite some defense must be switched from traits into the base class and then the whole package re-balanced around that new status quo. Until then eles will always spec into arcane+water and then cantrips because what else do you really have as defense.

We’ve already seen what happens to eles with the current class design when the devs make rather minor changes, eles go from dominating the meta to utter kittenkitten and back.