Guild Wars 2

Forum bug, forum bug, does whatever a forum bug does.

meow one twenty.4376:

sephiroth.4217:

NutellaCrepe.6745:

Listing builds saying they can beat an Ele doesn’t make it true. What 1v1 video between 2 capable players would indicate that a power longbow ranger would even tickle a d/d ele in a 1v1?

Trap ranger that will destroy every class that attempts to kill you except anything that has potent condi remover or condi back at your face skills. Hok.

Like I said, those are builds that I can beat an ele with
no point in arguing the difference in our skill levels, if you’re not willing to put the energy and effort into learning ways to counter classes, then by all means keep screaming at the forums for nerfs.

I beat an Ele while I was on the phone pressing 111111111 and didn’t move a single step, I’m not going to go out telling everyone Ele’s are fine because I beat an Ele who was most likely not playing their best.

I put the rest of the context in there for you mate, if you’re able to do what you said then congrats, I won’t argue with that as that is what you’re capable of and what you have put the effort into achieving…

It’s futile to argue individual skill levels and experience with class, I for one know I will never be able to achieve Banditos or Second childs skill level with weaponless builds on thief which essentially makes the class look completely Overpowered, but doesnt mean it is. It just means they put the energy and effort into learning those specs.

My necro eats eles alive. I have no issue with eles.

The traits and the properties you mentioned are old dinosaurs.

When we were not able to take 3 full GM lines, if you were going to fire line in D/D ele (or any ele spec) actually that mean you were going full glass cannon and you were without any defense without water or arcana, it was so bad that if anybody look your direction you will die.

To encourage the build diversity, ANet placed some defensive traits to glass cannon lines, like auto cleansing fire, evade on burning speed or blind on burning. They are totally necessary for glass cannon builds but they are completely OP for D/D Ele.

So the problem is, how can you nerf them without completely destroying glass cannon specs.

My proposal is glass cannon trait line should support each other. If anybody wants to play glass cannon Ele, it should take Fire and Air together, for ex make ICD of blinding ashes 10s if you only take fire line and put a trait that make ICD 3s if you take Air trait line also.

Same for auto cleansing fire, let that cleanse 1 condi and burn for 1s only Fire trait line is there but if also Air picked up then make 3 condi clear and 3s burn.

ANet didn’t do anything like that before but I think they really have to do it for D/D Ele.

I personally feel like nothing really counters my d/d ele. There are a couple builds that stand a chance in 1v1 but I dont consider them counters. I actually find Cele signet necros pretty non-threatening unless they’re +1ing a fight, not sure why people think theyre a counter to d/d… Perhaps it seems that way if you waste potential condition clears.

I think people proposing nerfs to ele weapon skills/utility among all things do not have a valid understanding of the elementalist’s class functionality. Its been said a million times by now but ill say it again, if anything its the potential passive utility coming from traits…

Anet, I’d really appriciate it if you could make the offensive and defensive capabilities on meta d/d a little more interesting and challenging. I really feel like the ele class probably needs a huge overhaul in order to break free from the arcana/water meta.

Sincerely, a very bored ele.

So someone in this thread mentioned multiple counters to a D/D ele.

Has he(or she) listed the builds that can hardcounter an ele yet?
Or was that just a lie?

Solori.6025:

So someone in this thread mentioned multiple counters to a D/D ele.

Has he(or she) listed the builds that can hardcounter an ele yet?
Or was that just a lie?

That list is a joke. More than half of those builds are useless and couldn’t even beat a bad DD ele. There is no counter to DD ele, fighting on even terms itself is a miracle.

With cele nec maybe you can take the point, but the ele can always just decide to disengage and reset the fight or use its mobility to outrotate you.

witcher.3197:

Solori.6025:

So someone in this thread mentioned multiple counters to a D/D ele.

Has he(or she) listed the builds that can hardcounter an ele yet?
Or was that just a lie?

That list is a joke. More than half of those builds are useless and couldn’t even beat a bad DD ele. There is no counter to DD ele, fighting on even terms itself is a miracle.

With cele nec maybe you can take the point, but the ele can always just decide to disengage and reset the fight or use its mobility to outrotate you.

That depends how ballsy Signet Necro is, if he start start crossing the Ring of Fire intentionally loads the 18 stacks burning and transfer it, plus corrupting and covering that burning, it can cook the Ele.

I try to do that with my Necro, it is extremely effective if you can time it when Ele is out of water and Necro can drop on top of burning chilling also.

DD cele ele is purely un-killable in 1vs1 (except Signet necro, that is also op class as well) when you two are equally skilled player in each profession. Firstly, they won’t get that much damage. Even though they get much damaged, you will see how fast they can recover their full hp back. Of course, 1v1 situation i mean.

Nier.8741:

Not EVERYONE is gonna play Warr + Guard + Cele Necro + Mesmer just to counter a braindead spec like d/d ele. I don’t understand why this class has so many privileges when they are fine if they take away some of what they have.

Here, I fixed that for you.

Sunshine.5014:

Nier.8741:

Not EVERYONE is gonna play Warr + Guard + Cele Necro + Mesmer just to counter a braindead spec like d/d ele. I don’t understand why this class has so many privileges when they are fine if they take away some of what they have.

Here, I fixed that for you.

Except good ele can beat all those classes/builds (even if they are played by good players).

Cynz.9437:

Sunshine.5014:

Nier.8741:

Not EVERYONE is gonna play Warr + Guard + Cele Necro + Mesmer just to counter a braindead spec like d/d ele. I don’t understand why this class has so many privileges when they are fine if they take away some of what they have.

Here, I fixed that for you.

Except good ele can beat all those classes/builds (even if they are played by good players).

Give him the benefit of the doubt, it would be accurate if he meant a 4v1 with those classes specifically.

Solori.6025:

So someone in this thread mentioned multiple counters to a D/D ele.

Has he(or she) listed the builds that can hardcounter an ele yet?
Or was that just a lie?

Signet Necro hardcounters DD ele. And good burst mesmers still softcounter them.

Sagat.3285:

Dirame.8521:

Hm, the reason why Ele is running rampant is because there’s not enough condi in the competitive meta right now.

Engies don’t put out enough of it and there are no good Necros willing to play condi (apart from Djooce but he rarely plays).

Anyway, condi is the counter to the current meta of vamp runes and survivability but no one is willing to put together a team with “counter comping” in mind.

I think you mean boon hate instead of conditions.

It’s both. Condis reduce the effect of boons. Like poison vs regen or vuln vs protection. More condis, less sustain effectiveness.

Dirame.8521:

Sagat.3285:

Dirame.8521:

Hm, the reason why Ele is running rampant is because there’s not enough condi in the competitive meta right now.

Engies don’t put out enough of it and there are no good Necros willing to play condi (apart from Djooce but he rarely plays).

Anyway, condi is the counter to the current meta of vamp runes and survivability but no one is willing to put together a team with “counter comping” in mind.

I think you mean boon hate instead of conditions.

It’s both. Condis reduce the effect of boons. Like poison vs regen or vuln vs protection. More condis, less sustain effectiveness.

To be honest as an ele player what makes me win most duels is the ability to blind easily. Most duels I play go something like this:

1) engagement → start in air close gap, switch to fire apply burn
2) pressure → keep dodging in fire or air into opponent so i can blind him, apply damage using fire or air, cc important skills with earth and air
3) disengagement → keep teleport for quick escapes and safe heals
4) anti kite → keep teleport so you can port and apply pressure as seen on step 2

What makes me win is the ability to apply in your face fire breaths and burning speeds while you are blinded, we wouldn’t be able to apply that much pressure with our small health pool without you missing your attacks.

At this moment i can stay in the face of berzerker thiefs and warriors applying burns…that isn’t something i like as an ele, before patch we had to take greater care when we decided to pressure an opponent I really miss that.

…Can’t people just post in one of the fifty other threads on this topic and stop cluttering everything up?
D/D ele is the best bruiser in a metagame that is by necessity dominated by bruisers, for the following reasons:
1) Complete lack of a ban/pick phase in matchmaking. In more competitive games, it’s possible to pick counters and build responsive teamcomps to counter the enemy’s picks, like picking a cele sig necro into d/d eles (whatever you might say, this is a solid counter and if you can’t use it that says a lot about your ability to play). This makes bruisers stronger, because they are by definition generalists.

2) Point capture modes benefit bruisers especially well. Bruisers are moderately tanky and have the ability to deal acceptable damage (if you try to argue it’s at berserker level, do an actual comparison) while sustaining, and have good mobility. These are exactly what conquest demands, and nothing else. This has always been and will continue to be the case until the chosen mode of the majority of players changes.

3) Close-quarters small-scale fights. Conquest forces small fights on a number of points, and strong sustain like what celementalist has is really strong in smaller fights, where there isn’t enough damage most of the time to burst them down properly. Not to mention that any bruiser is by definition strong in 1v1s, where they can outsustain their opponent while gradually killing them.

4) History. If you look back, the most problematic build in conquest for the entire history of the game has been whatever bruiser was strongest, from hambow to spirit ranger (for those who can’t remember, there were a few months where somebody decided to make autoattacking with spirits up the optimal playing method of ranger…) to d/d ele. It doesn’t take a whole lot of brain power to figure out that ele is just the strongest bruiser in a game that rewards bruisers more than anything else.

The one thing that pushed d/d ele over the edge was the burning changes. It used to be strong, but not overpowering, until suddenly burning, which eles have always had a ton of, became the single strongest condition in the game.

But really, if you nerf ele you’re only treating a symptom of the larger problem, which is that conquest rewards one and only one playstyle, and whatever bruiser is next in line will suddenly be the most obnoxious thing in the world.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Snip

A build that duels really well because it is a “bruiser” should not be able to have an easy time dealing with a gank. THAT is the whole point, d/d ele has everything.

You play shoutbow instead of D/D ele? You get bursted and is easy to gank and chain cc.
You play back point guardian instead of D/D ele? You have no escapes and you have no mobility.
You play ranger back point instead of D/D ele? Well ranger is just an inferior version of ele anyways, whats the point? Oh and at least ranger doesn’t blind you when you hit it during fire aura. And if you go “bruiser condi ranger” then you’re useless on team fights, unless you go trap in which case you’re easy to burst.

But if you play D/D ele, then you have NONE of those problems that the other “bruisers” have.

P.S Backpoint and Bruiser are interchange-able.

YES people DUELS MATTER. MOST classes will have such a bad match-up with d/d ele it’s ridiculous, most of the time you will need help killing this easy mode class. Sure, you can say “this is a team game, learn to gank D/D ele” but D/D ele can delay 1v2s so easy compared to other “bruisers” causing your team to outnumber a different point SO EASY.

This is why nerfing D/D will help the game right now. You can’t say “don’t nerf D/D ele because it’s only a small fraction of a larger problem,” considering D/D ele’s role as a POINT HOLDER deletes competition from OTHER point holders. In Conquest YOU NEED point holders, it’s not a “bruiser problem” it’s more like this one class deletes the purpose of other classes.

Do you understand now why your “larger problem” logic is beyond flawed and is a point that isn’t worthy? Bruisers are NECESSARY in conquest, but D/D ele deletes the point of other bruisers.

Sunshine.5014:

Nier.8741:

Not EVERYONE is gonna play Warr + Guard + Cele Necro + Mesmer just to counter a braindead spec like d/d ele. I don’t understand why this class has so many privileges when they are fine if they take away some of what they have.

Here, I fixed that for you.

4v1 is not a good counter.

Otherwise I really hope you weren’t serious about war, mes and guard. Cause that is hilariously wrong.

But lets say you are serious

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

prove it. I’ll wait for the builds that don’t exist.

Hey you guys asked what I could beat a D/D ele on, if you don’t like the answer, don’t ask the question

The key word being what I could do it on, I didn’t list any builds or professions I’ve seen other people do it on, although I’m sure there are plenty more if you stop playing meta focused builds, because my experience is, any build I have used off Metabuild besides cele necro has been completely destoyed by the ele.

Maybe that’s the real issue, there are no metabuilds for people to use that beats an Ele.

Anyway, most likely not checking this thread again, seems a few jimmies were rustled, back on topic and to my reason why Ele is not OP to help get this thread back on track.

Ele is fine, Burn is not.

D/D ele slack in team fight all ok and mesmers 1 vs 1 beat them easy

sephiroth.4217:

Hey you guys asked what I could beat a D/D ele on, if you don’t like the answer, don’t ask the question

The key word being what I could do it on, I didn’t list any builds or professions I’ve seen other people do it on, although I’m sure there are plenty more if you stop playing meta focused builds, because my experience is, any build I have used off Metabuild besides cele necro has been completely destoyed by the ele.

Maybe that’s the real issue, there are no metabuilds for people to use that beats an Ele.

Anyway, most likely not checking this thread again, seems a few jimmies were rustled, back on topic and to my reason why Ele is not OP to help get this thread back on track.

Ele is fine, Burn is not.

Even if the ele meta is considered fine after a burn nerf, which may be true… I still wish more of the passive trait design would be moved to an active role instead. Swapping into water for example doing an auto heal, auto frost aurab regen upon being crit, suto cleansing 3 conditions and gaining 3might regen and vigor afterwards, stuff like this is kind of lame. Why cant we just manually control when this stuff happens and somehow make it a little challenging to pull off so it’s more interesting…

I really feel like d/d should have never been about bunkering, it should have been a glassy role that was about high risk for reward. Just my opinion anyway, marauder d/d is pretty close to being how I feel like d/d ele was meant to be.

Yes ele is OP but only when you paly in high level and to play ele in that level is very hard, and averege ele is for laugh.

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

lol

Anet should not even bother with number-crunching and analysis to determine which profs are currently UP and OP. All they need to do is some player profiling. Once Anet knows which players are most likely to play the current OP fotm, they should just watch them and see what it is that prof can do that is giving them an unfair advantage. Anet, player behavior is telling you WHAT prof(s) are OP, now you just need to figure out WHY.

aggelos r.5387:

Yes ele is OP but only when you paly in high level and to play ele in that level is very hard, and averege ele is for laugh.

Kinda like every other class.

Osu.6307:

Anet should not even bother with number-crunching and analysis to determine which profs are currently UP and OP. All they need to do is some player profiling. Once Anet knows which players are most likely to play the current OP fotm, they should just watch them and see what it is that prof can do that is giving them an unfair advantage. Anet, player behavior is telling you WHAT prof(s) are OP, now you just need to figure out WHY.

like when you see many many many good players leaving their mains to reroll ele right? Apparently not for anet

sephiroth.4217:

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Scissors, rock is fine though.

Love, Paper.

(seriously though, roll a different class and build that counters it and stop yelling for nerfs on classes that beat yours, before you know it class skills will hit like a fly vs a human)

Where were u when all the nerfs to Mesmers took place?

D/D Celestial Ele is way too good, just like PU Mesmer (I seriously think Mesmer having almost all boons and condis is a stupid idea…), I’m playing as a Thief and Guard, and while I can stomp the mesmer, doing the same with Ele is just not possible most of the time, no matter what build I’m using, maybe it’s a l2p issue, maybe it’s not, but it’s not fun to play against…

Nier.8741:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Snip

A build that duels really well because it is a “bruiser” should not be able to have an easy time dealing with a gank. THAT is the whole point, d/d ele has everything.

You play shoutbow instead of D/D ele? You get bursted and is easy to gank and chain cc.
You play back point guardian instead of D/D ele? You have no escapes and you have no mobility.
You play ranger back point instead of D/D ele? Well ranger is just an inferior version of ele anyways, whats the point? Oh and at least ranger doesn’t blind you when you hit it during fire aura. And if you go “bruiser condi ranger” then you’re useless on team fights, unless you go trap in which case you’re easy to burst.

But if you play D/D ele, then you have NONE of those problems that the other “bruisers” have.

P.S Backpoint and Bruiser are interchange-able.

YES people DUELS MATTER. MOST classes will have such a bad match-up with d/d ele it’s ridiculous, most of the time you will need help killing this easy mode class. Sure, you can say “this is a team game, learn to gank D/D ele” but D/D ele can delay 1v2s so easy compared to other “bruisers” causing your team to outnumber a different point SO EASY.

This is why nerfing D/D will help the game right now. You can’t say “don’t nerf D/D ele because it’s only a small fraction of a larger problem,” considering D/D ele’s role as a POINT HOLDER deletes competition from OTHER point holders. In Conquest YOU NEED point holders, it’s not a “bruiser problem” it’s more like this one class deletes the purpose of other classes.

Do you understand now why your “larger problem” logic is beyond flawed and is a point that isn’t worthy? Bruisers are NECESSARY in conquest, but D/D ele deletes the point of other bruisers.

…You miss the entire point of the post. It’s not about bruisers in particular, it’s that so long as a mode doesn’t reward other build types, there will always be a single build that is best at that. This should be obvious to anyone who has seen more than two patches in this game; the strongest, most dominant build in conquest is literally always a bruiser, because conquest doesn’t reward any other build type enough.

It’s not that they excel at any one particular task or adhere to a single strategy; they use a mix of nearly everything. Look at literally any other competitive game with solid all-rounders. Their point is to be moderately strong at everything, but lacking in focus.
The problem is that conquest DOES NOT reward focused builds, because the nature of conquest punishes anyone who doesn’t do at least moderately well at everything.

The meta is entirely stagnant, and that’s where a lot of the problems people are having is coming from. The classes change periodically, but their function doesn’t (well, except for guardian; meta guardian has stayed in exactly the same role since launch, with an assured spot). It’s always been two tanks, two bruisers and a roamer, where the tanks and roamer pretty much exist to supplement the bruisers.

It’s not like nerfing ele will actually solve anything. Two days later there will be another slew of forum posts proclaiming that some other class (probably warriors again, or possibly engies; they tend to be the ones in that role the most) are OP at everything and need to be nerfed, and it will stay that way until people have a reason to use another strategy.

The exact same complaints you have against D/D ele have been true for every single top tier bruiser since the start of the game (strong duelist with solid mobility and sustaining in small-scale fights), because burst isn’t desirable, real tanking isn’t desirable, support isn’t desirable, hell, even map control isn’t desirable (as in vision or movement control). No form of specialization actually helps your team more than a bruiser does, outside of the single roamer who tries to make the bruiser win faster and the tanks who sit on a point all day so that the bruisers can run around capping.

If you don’t think that’s a problem then there’s no point in arguing with you.