Guild Wars 2

Saw an ANet person in Mists today, asked them if they are going to nerf DD eles and burns. Their reply was go to the website, go to forums. Finally I bugged this person long enough to get a response other than the usual. This person said that they are not in talks about any nerfs to burns or DD eles. Now I’m not sure if this is true, maybe this person just wanted me to shut up, but if this is true, then there goes our hopes…

welp, that almost makes me want to pick up ele after almost 3 years of never touching them.

people yell “cleanse the burn”, yeah but it’s reapplied like seconds later =\ It’s on the absurd side honestly.

Also doesn’t help with the ring of fire terrain bug that’s been happening

The fear-mongering is real.

I also like to run through ring of fire repeatedly.

Going through it once on certain terrain can give 6 stacks of burn due to some weird terrain pathing thing that makes the game register as you running through 2 times. In extremely rare cases it can go up to 12 stacks. Though if you’re complaining because you run through it multiple times and don’t cleanse then pay attention to what you’re doing and make better choices.

Ario.8964:

Going through it once on certain terrain can give 6 stacks of burn due to some weird terrain pathing thing that makes the game register as you running through 2 times. In extremely rare cases it can go up to 12 stacks. Though if you’re complaining because you run through it multiple times and don’t cleanse then pay attention to what you’re doing and make better choices.

Or just dodge. Especially when you know there is a bug.

Laraley.7695:

Or just dodge. Especially when you know there is a bug.

Used Whirlwind Attack with 3/4 evade to get out of Ring of Fire – ended up with +6 stacks of burning.

Looks legit.

I do think Ring of Fire could use an adjustment, but its really not THAT strong. Because I have enough experience, I know that I can just stand inside the ring and the dps is almost laughable. Seriously, that little ring should scare you more than all the lightning whips he can throw at you.

BlackBeard.2873:

I do think Ring of Fire could use an adjustment, but its really not THAT strong. Because I have enough experience, I know that I can just stand inside the ring and the dps is almost laughable. Seriously, that little ring should scare you more than all the lightning whips he can throw at you.

Why would the elementalist stay inside the circle with you? Is it brainded? <o> What’s your MMR ? Just started?

Tao.1234:

Laraley.7695:

Or just dodge. Especially when you know there is a bug.

Used Whirlwind Attack with 3/4 evade to get out of Ring of Fire – ended up with +6 stacks of burning.

Looks legit.

U have to whirl while REALLY close to the ring to make your way out of it without getting burn stacks…if you whirl from the centre you gonna get it

But at the end of the day you shouldn’t even 1v1 cele dd eles on war since it’s pretty much asking for suicide

Archaon.9524:

Tao.1234:

Laraley.7695:

Or just dodge. Especially when you know there is a bug.

Used Whirlwind Attack with 3/4 evade to get out of Ring of Fire – ended up with +6 stacks of burning.

Looks legit.

U have to whirl while REALLY close to the ring to make your way out of it without getting burn stacks…if you whirl from the centre you gonna get it

But at the end of the day you shouldn’t even 1v1 cele dd eles on war since it’s pretty much asking for suicide

Nah, I win a lot vs celeddeles on my war.
But thing is, that Whirlwind Attack is a skill which has an evasion through almost whole animation, and despite that it did put Burn effect on. I’ll skip the fact how many I got, but the thing I just did is simply silly.

Turns out that the only way to not get the burning effect is to waste your Dodge Roll.

aaaaand, it’s not like Anet cares and is gonna do anything about it

u.u

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath → fire grab → burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

@OP:

You are surprised that ANET isn’t thinking about balance? They just did a patch 2 months ago. That means the next balance patch is 4 months away.

Working on the balance team must be a dream job.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

if only your answer is stupid, how do you intend to beat an attrition build when attrition is it’s speciality…

my post is intended to help people stay alive long enough for their teammates to arrive and 2v1 the ele or to put something equally strong on the point.

Jekkt.6045:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

if only your answer is stupid, how do you intend to beat an attrition build when attrition is it’s speciality…

my post is intended to help people stay alive long enough for their teammates to arrive and 2v1 the ele or to put something equally strong on the point.

(In case there is confusion)

I was agreeing with you. I wasnt calling your -post- stupid, but rather the fact that an attrition build that never runs out of steam is stupid for existing.

The fact that a build exists that is just plain unkillable 1v1 is destructive to pvp balance. Its not even gimmicky, it heals by nature of rotation.

And thus it is sad that our strategies for dealing it amount to “Die slowly.”

Don’t argue about cheap stuff.

In all games – wizards, sorcerers, warlocks, witches, force masters, elementalists – all kind of magic casters that could deal great damage and had firework like animations are squishy like no tomorrow.

Anet showed that they can make a mage into something that will out best any Tank that ever existed.

Should congratulate on succeeding~

I don’t think anyone minds that eles never die. The problem is that they can kill you while doing it.

With great sustain comes great loss of DPS.

At least that’s how it should work. Tough or impossible to kill? No problem! Just remember that you won’t do much damage. Wanna be able to apply huge stacks of burning constantly for super high DPS? Hey, no issues – just realize that you’re going to be easy to kill.

The problem with eles is that they can do both of these. Either one is fine. Both together is not fine.

bhagwad.4281:

I don’t think anyone minds that eles never die. The problem is that they can kill you while doing it.

With great sustain comes great loss of DPS.

At least that’s how it should work. Tough or impossible to kill? No problem! Just remember that you won’t do much damage. Wanna be able to apply huge stacks of burning constantly for super high DPS? Hey, no issues – just realize that you’re going to be easy to kill.

The problem with eles is that they can do both of these. Either one is fine. Both together is not fine.

They can die. Their weakness is limited access to stability (just armor of earth really)
stunlock them and power/condi burst them the second they leave water attunement.
Its hard but to say its impossible to beat a dd ele is laughable. Ya really high skilled players like the ones you see in tourneys are tough to beat 1v1… but they could be tough to beat with ANY CLASS…

It’s a matter of indivual skill. Yes the DD Cele ele is a very strong build, one of the strongest, but I’ve downed SOO MANY bad DD cele eles because its not as easy as it looks.
It does require a bit of a skill to master and get good at.

btw, cele signet necro beats dd ele 1v1 pretty handidly

SkiTz.4590:

bhagwad.4281:

I don’t think anyone minds that eles never die. The problem is that they can kill you while doing it.

With great sustain comes great loss of DPS.

At least that’s how it should work. Tough or impossible to kill? No problem! Just remember that you won’t do much damage. Wanna be able to apply huge stacks of burning constantly for super high DPS? Hey, no issues – just realize that you’re going to be easy to kill.

The problem with eles is that they can do both of these. Either one is fine. Both together is not fine.

They can die. Their weakness is limited access to stability (just armor of earth really)
stunlock them and power/condi burst them the second they leave water attunement.
Its hard but to say its impossible to beat a dd ele is laughable. Ya really high skilled players like the ones you see in tourneys are tough to beat 1v1… but they could be tough to beat with ANY CLASS…

It’s a matter of indivual skill. Yes the DD Cele ele is a very strong build, one of the strongest, but I’ve downed SOO MANY bad DD cele eles because its not as easy as it looks.
It does require a bit of a skill to master and get good at.

btw, cele signet necro beats dd ele 1v1 pretty handidly

It’s a question of degree. Obviously every build can be killed. The question is about whether or not the survival power is too high for the possible DPS. Or is the DPS too high for the survival capability.

There is a ratio. Now just because the DD can die doesn’t mean the ratio is balanced.

Hey guys, just to add what people have said….a simple counter to d/d ele burns is also power cele cantrip ele with the diamond skin trait on earth . I do not think any nerf is needed really.

Jekkt.6045:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

if only your answer is stupid, how do you intend to beat an attrition build when attrition is it’s speciality…

my post is intended to help people stay alive long enough for their teammates to arrive and 2v1 the ele or to put something equally strong on the point.

with “equally strong” you mean another cele d/d i suppose xD

Dutchy.2056:

Hey guys, just to add what people have said….a simple counter to d/d ele burns is also power cele cantrip ele with the diamond skin trait on earth . I do not think any nerf is needed really.

The only thing that can beat an ele is an ele.

(and also a specifically built necro that is borderline useless in other situations)

Ele is therefore fine.

No game would survive if the developers would bend to the constant requests of small vocal minority, if things would get nerfed/buffed every time someone throw a tantrum on the forums…the game would die before long as people just leave for other games

Archaon.9524:

Jekkt.6045:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

if only your answer is stupid, how do you intend to beat an attrition build when attrition is it’s speciality…

my post is intended to help people stay alive long enough for their teammates to arrive and 2v1 the ele or to put something equally strong on the point.

with “equally strong” you mean another cele d/d i suppose xD

or a bunker guard, rifle engi, another dd or a shoutbow, a clestial necro.

Supreme.3164:

No game would survive if the developers would bend to the constant requests of small vocal minority, if things would get nerfed/buffed every time someone throw a tantrum on the forums…the game would die before long as people just leave for other games

This isn’t a tantrum.

We’re talking about a specific build for a specific class that outperforms most other generally effective class and build loadouts in the game. And the reason for this isn’t ‘waah it killed me’, if I can speak for myself, because I have had my kitten handed to me by decent players in far worse ways. The reason is that, where power and sustain should have a tradeoff, C[ele] has none, and thus performs better than anyone that is leaning to either end of the balance.

When a strategy for fighting a class becomes “Don’t fight it”, “die slow” or “+1 it”, then it needs to be looked at, whether people that play it think that it is fair or not.

Supreme.3164:

No game would survive if the developers would bend to the constant requests of small vocal minority, if things would get nerfed/buffed every time someone throw a tantrum on the forums…the game would die before long as people just leave for other games

But apparently it’s ok to bend over to the whining of the LARGE vocal majority of scrubs because, just as an example, “teef op, nerfit coz cant kill it while afk!!1one”.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Supreme.3164:

No game would survive if the developers would bend to the constant requests of small vocal minority, if things would get nerfed/buffed every time someone throw a tantrum on the forums…the game would die before long as people just leave for other games

This isn’t a tantrum.

We’re talking about a specific build for a specific class that outperforms most other generally effective class and build loadouts in the game. And the reason for this isn’t ‘waah it killed me’, if I can speak for myself, because I have had my kitten handed to me by decent players in far worse ways. The reason is that, where power and sustain should have a tradeoff, C[ele] has none, and thus performs better than anyone that is leaning to either end of the balance.

When a strategy for fighting a class becomes “Don’t fight it”, “die slow” or “+1 it”, then it needs to be looked at, whether people that play it think that it is fair or not.

No! You’re not talking about a class but rather a build with 90% investment in sustain, in that regard there is no difference between an ele and other professions specced for defense, I know quite few builds that will require a +1 (PU mesmer, MM necro, shout warrior – as proven in the last WTS, and there are more…), “don’t fight it” and “die slow”.

The build does not outperform anything more than other professions outperforming in other section of the gameplay, in this regard mesmer and thief outperform everybody from the burst point of view…still that is considered fine because..why?

Ofc the most unscrupulous complainers will use the Abjured as an example to support their so called arguments, still the Abj got sent to the losing brackets by the same team they defeated later.

When ele is specced for offense…it doesn’t stand a chance against any other profession even when played poorly or equally specced in offense, that should tell you a lot about the design conditions of the ele …

The bigger issue is DD Cele Ele is literally the only viable competitive build for the entire Ele profession in sPvP…..

Supreme.3164:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Supreme.3164:

No game would survive if the developers would bend to the constant requests of small vocal minority, if things would get nerfed/buffed every time someone throw a tantrum on the forums…the game would die before long as people just leave for other games

This isn’t a tantrum.

We’re talking about a specific build for a specific class that outperforms most other generally effective class and build loadouts in the game. And the reason for this isn’t ‘waah it killed me’, if I can speak for myself, because I have had my kitten handed to me by decent players in far worse ways. The reason is that, where power and sustain should have a tradeoff, C[ele] has none, and thus performs better than anyone that is leaning to either end of the balance.

When a strategy for fighting a class becomes “Don’t fight it”, “die slow” or “+1 it”, then it needs to be looked at, whether people that play it think that it is fair or not.

No! You’re not talking about a class but rather a build with 90% investment in sustain, in that regard there is no difference between an ele and other professions specced for defense, I know quite few builds that will require a +1 (PU mesmer, MM necro, shout warrior – as proven in the last WTS, and there are more…), “don’t fight it” and “die slow”.

The build does not outperform anything more than other professions outperforming in other section of the gameplay, in this regard mesmer and thief outperform everybody from the burst point of view…still that is considered fine because..why?

Ofc the most unscrupulous complainers will use the Abjured as an example to support their so called arguments, still the Abj got sent to the losing brackets by the same team they defeated later.

When ele is specced for offense…it doesn’t stand a chance against any other profession even when played poorly or equally specced in offense, that should tell you a lot about the design conditions of the ele …

Apologies, I actually did mean build. When it comes to the class itself, I am completely fine with buffs to, say, staff in compensation for restructuring of that single build.

[Quick break, retort incoming]

Yes! Pleasenerf the tanky D/D bruiser build slightly, and then figure out a way to buff scepter and staff builds so that ele has other competitive roles!