Guild Wars 2

So the PoF elite specs are looking good, but it’s very apparent that Anet doesn’t want a bunker meta runing another expansion release which is good. Most of the new specs are high risk / high reward.

But then we have Dragonhunter and Daredevil.. both of these are just way too good at preying on anything that isn’t a bunker. The new elite specs do not need buffs – they are well designed. Instead Anet should nerf the low risk / high reward specs of Dragonhunter and Daredevil or else these two will just dominate all the new specs and kill build diversity.

I propose a few, simple countermeasures:

• Nerf Test of Faith
• Nerf Pulmonary Impact (maybe a 5s ICD?)
• Nerf Daredevil condi application (not necessarily the damage, just the amount of different conditions it can do with 2 buttons on S/D)
• Nerf Dash. Maybe only cleanse 1 or 2 of those conditions, not 3? Or reduce travel distance/swiftness duration?

These should have been butchered long ago, but now it’s a more pressing issue.

If these remain unchanged every new spec will either find the tankiest build they can (yay bunker meta) or won’t be played at all.

Nerfing another spec in order to try force a new, worse spec is not how it’s done.

SRR but let’s nerf necro and mesmer plz

ToF really dude? like really?

not like. bugfix firebrand. speed up casttimes. make the 33% cd trait effect virtues. and increase healing power scaling.

feel like that would be far better than nerfing ToF again lol. but I guess if it’s still killing u I get it lol. pretty embarrassing to be rolled by trapper these days.

Condi on S/D has literally nothing to do with Daredevil.

bluri.2653:

SRR but let’s nerf necro and mesmer plz

I dunno what’s going to happen to the meta but I saw a seriously good Deadeye build.

No it’s not the decap overdrive build that is DD, but you got SB & the ability to drop anyone at a whim.

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

SRR but let’s nerf necro and mesmer plz

I dunno what’s going to happen to the meta but I saw a seriously good Deadeye build.

No it’s not the decap overdrive build that is DD, but you got SB & the ability to drop anyone at a whim.

Pls no just no.. Believe what you want, but no.

It’s a higher chance hambow makes a return into top tier meta tbh

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

SRR but let’s nerf necro and mesmer plz

I dunno what’s going to happen to the meta but I saw a seriously good Deadeye build.

No it’s not the decap overdrive build that is DD, but you got SB & the ability to drop anyone at a whim.

DE in its current implementation cannot replace DD. No chance, whatsoever.

That includes hardcore PvE content too, like raids. DE will not replace DD. DE is a joke atm.

saerni.2584:

Condi on S/D has literally nothing to do with Daredevil.

Impaling Lotus adds 3 conditions to cover the poison stacks just by dodging, 4 with the vulnerability sigil. That’s the only reason condi thief is kinda broken, because cleanses can barely dig through all the cover condis.

choovanski.5462:

ToF really dude? like really?

not like. bugfix firebrand. speed up casttimes. make the 33% cd trait effect virtues. and increase healing power scaling.

feel like that would be far better than nerfing ToF again lol. but I guess if it’s still killing u I get it lol. pretty embarrassing to be rolled by trapper these days.

Then don’t nerf ToF, I don’t care, but something has to be done. No, I have no problem with DHs now, it’s a problem for the future. Have you played against any this weekend on new specs? It’s ridiculously effective for no real effort. Or Daredevil, which makes any future thief spec completely garbage because it outdoes them in every way AND counters them.

I for one do not want another HoT release. Season 1 turned a lot of players away from the game, I do not want another disaster. This is our last chance to make something out of PvP and these 2 cancer specs cannot stay as they are.

Let’s nerf what kills me, then I’ll be able to never die anymore!

I alsowould like to see the perma-dodge build nerfed a little, to be honest.

DH don’t need nerfs. If you know how to fight one there’s not so much ways he’ll be able to kill you. I’m able to kill them with a necro…

Different skills like 100Blades hit the DH by flanks even with the F3 active. AoE bombing can kill a DH pretty fast.
There’s different classes/builds that just kill DH easy, countering them.

At low-mid level the DH is really strong but higher you go lesser DH you see. They are perfect to kill low experienced players, but someone that know how to fight you will win every fight.

Different new elites perform bad if compared to the already existant one also because need to be fixed. There’s different bugs to be fixed, in every new elite.

For the FB I’m with “choovanski”. Fix bugs, reduce casting, reduce by a little the CD on Tomes (expecially Resolve and Courage) and rework some useless traits (or make them good like the others).

But that covers all condi builds. Confused why you specified S/D.

In any event just need to kite out of the Lotus Training range.

saerni.2584:

But that covers all condi builds. Confused why you specified S/D.

In any event just need to kite out of the Lotus Training range.

But that requires skill/playing semi competently and not just spamming buttons and relying on passive skills to win.

@OP
DH is not OP compared to how it was it’s relatively balanced you just have to bait out CDs then choose the right opening.

For Condi DrD which I see so many people say kills anything in a 1v1 which I proved to be false quite easily I might add when someone in the top 70 claimed this left and right saying how he beat top 20 players easily everytime with it. So again itisnt OP most classes Meta builds shut it down extremely easily it just takes knowing how to manage any cleanses you have and how to position and you know use the Dodge key appropriately, those Condis don’t magically appear on you.

NotASmurf.1725:

saerni.2584:

Condi on S/D has literally nothing to do with Daredevil.

Impaling Lotus adds 3 conditions to cover the poison stacks just by dodging, 4 with the vulnerability sigil. That’s the only reason condi thief is kinda broken, because cleanses can barely dig through all the cover condis.

choovanski.5462:

ToF really dude? like really?

not like. bugfix firebrand. speed up casttimes. make the 33% cd trait effect virtues. and increase healing power scaling.

feel like that would be far better than nerfing ToF again lol. but I guess if it’s still killing u I get it lol. pretty embarrassing to be rolled by trapper these days.

Then don’t nerf ToF, I don’t care, but something has to be done. No, I have no problem with DHs now, it’s a problem for the future. Have you played against any this weekend on new specs? It’s ridiculously effective for no real effort. Or Daredevil, which makes any future thief spec completely garbage because it outdoes them in every way AND counters them.

I for one do not want another HoT release. Season 1 turned a lot of players away from the game, I do not want another disaster. This is our last chance to make something out of PvP and these 2 cancer specs cannot stay as they are.

Idk I would have loved a sword/sword thief/blademaster type of gameplay and base it around 1v1 instead of some terrible sniper CoD wannabe, it’s so obvious it’s not gonna work in pvp it’s actually laughable. So of course you are gonna have daredevil outperform any thief build in pvp because no one can compete with the +1 role as they do, nerf that and you won’t have any thief in the top tiers, will be down there with what warrior is right now. Like don’t get me wrong I would love to be wrong and get to play something else. I am tired of seeing the same meta that’s why I’m so disappointed in rifle to begin with.

And tbh let them nerf drd to the ground if they want would just give me an excuse to play some other class LUL

NotASmurf.1725:

But then we have Dragonhunter and Daredevil.. both of these are just way too good at preying on anything that isn’t a bunker. The new elite specs do not need buffs – they are well designed. Instead Anet should nerf the low risk / high reward specs of Dragonhunter and Daredevil or else these two will just dominate all the new specs and kill build diversity.

Let me start saying that I currently I don’t play DH or DD. Then, let me say that DH’s longbow was nerfed several times, in terms of damage, cooldowns and mechanics; the F3 duration was (again) nerfed two times. The traps were nerfed in damage, in cc (daze remove), then nerfed again. The f2 was nerfed, the heal was nerfed, the f1 animation is now longer and more predictable…

If you still have problems vs DH is because you refuse to adapt your build and gameplay vs them. As long as I remember no DH won the 1 vs 1 tornaments from Jebro, neither DH were present in the winner teams in the recent tournaments.

Related to the thief, the only nerf I think they need is about stealth. Stealth in this game is utterly broken and op. Stealth is the strongest damage preventing tool in the game and also one of the main sinergies to burst damage, which makes it ultra convenient for all the classes that can spam it.

why the hevk anything needs to be done about DH is beyond me. it’s a deeply mediocre dualist build that falls off in higher play levels.

like. if you can dodge, both the pull, & ToF should be no issue. LB has been nerfed so much is no longer a big threat. so wow, all thats left are blocks & heals. so anyone w an unblockable skill (so common rn) who can also interrupt the trap heal can outplay to victory. easy bby.

so why nerf this really average build? it’s great at low skill, & subpar at high skill. seems to be in a good place.

i don’t think any nerfs to DH will make FB good regardless.

it’s as myself & @Silv said, FB needs a few tweaks & bugfixes to be great. like not average subpar side point pick. like must pick hyper bunker level. ithas unreal potential.

as i said before its only a few things that need to change
> fix RF so it works w books
> make 33% cd trait apply to books as well as book skills
> reduce cast times across the board
> buff healing power scaling

& if you really want to go crazy add this amulet
+1050 Condition Damage
+560 Toughness
+560 Vitality
+1050 Healing Power

those are the stats FB needs to be basically OP with the fixes i mentioned.

currently im very excited for FB potential, there is a lot there that’s good. it just really needs bugfixes & tweaks

OP can’t be for real because people have two days playing a brand new elite compared to people who’ve been playing an elite class for two years.

It’s truly astonishing the thought process of some people.

Wait until the new elites settle down with changes.

bluri.2653:

Azukas.1426:

bluri.2653:

SRR but let’s nerf necro and mesmer plz

I dunno what’s going to happen to the meta but I saw a seriously good Deadeye build.

No it’s not the decap overdrive build that is DD, but you got SB & the ability to drop anyone at a whim.

Pls no just no.. Believe what you want, but no.

It’s a higher chance hambow makes a return into top tier meta tbh

Again I said I dont know,what’s going to happen to the meta and the one build I had the displeasure of fighting against was VERY good coming from a mesmer/necro/warrior player (all I got too this weekend) oh and engineering.

From my perspective that build is scary. Will it supplant DD? I dunno nor do I care.

OP’s general idea is correct, though the details could use refinement.

Dragonhunter was incrementally nerfed a ton of times because ANet did a massive over-buff just before HoT launched in order to cover for the crappy mechanics. DH is as the OP stated: relatively easy to play for how well it performs. At the same time, that simplicity is stopping it from being strong at very high skill levels.

Daredevil’s main problem is that it’s a straight-up buff to thief.

NotASmurf.1725:

So the PoF elite specs are looking good, but it’s very apparent that Anet doesn’t want a bunker meta runing another expansion release which is good. Most of the new specs are high risk / high reward.

But then we have Dragonhunter and Daredevil.. both of these are just way too good at preying on anything that isn’t a bunker. The new elite specs do not need buffs – they are well designed. Instead Anet should nerf the low risk / high reward specs of Dragonhunter and Daredevil or else these two will just dominate all the new specs and kill build diversity.

I propose a few, simple countermeasures:

• Nerf Test of Faith
• Nerf Pulmonary Impact (maybe a 5s ICD?)
• Nerf Daredevil condi application (not necessarily the damage, just the amount of different conditions it can do with 2 buttons on S/D)
• Nerf Dash. Maybe only cleanse 1 or 2 of those conditions, not 3? Or reduce travel distance/swiftness duration?

These should have been butchered long ago, but now it’s a more pressing issue.

If these remain unchanged every new spec will either find the tankiest build they can (yay bunker meta) or won’t be played at all.

high risk? thats a joke? thief(the most movile an disengage capable class) oneshoting at 1500 range(300 units more than normal long range atacks) call you high risk?

100% agree with Smurf that, DH and DD builds from HoT are hard countering like every PoF build in 1v1 situations. This is due to PoF specs being highly offensive with little to no defensive/disengage methods offered. This also has to deal with the mass amount of boon removal being provided by PoF. Classes like DH and DD that can spam long range CCs will be very powerful in PoF. Maybe too powerful.

I do not however, feel that DH and DD need nerfing. They are balanced concerning HoT play. It’s the PoF specs and some of the other PoF content that needs attention. Again, I can say there is too much boon removal being provided with PoF content. This is allowing control classes way too much power due to the lack of stability and ability to keep stability during team fights. And of course the PoF content isn’t providing many defensive options vs. such offense.

I think a lot of the problems would be insta-solved if about 1/3rd of the new PoF boon removals were simply gutted out and replaced with some other effects.

~ Seriously though, PoF has way too much casual boon removal.

First off lets remember that the new elite specs are not meant to replace the older ones

Now…I dont play DH that often but the number of times it was nerfed is just hilarious!
would have mistook it for necro if it werent for the blue firey thingie skill colors
if people dont know how DH plays by now then they never will.

honestly though, lay off of the poor DH

DrD though…well they havent seen a real nerf bat in a while now

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

DrD though…well they havent seen a nerf in a while now

Lulz What?!

Let’s see the recent balance patches before the Trait shake up, yep zero Nefs to Thief not a a single one. Remember here Balance patches are approximately every 3 months.

June 20th

Choking Gas: The daze duration of this skill has been increased from 0.5 seconds to 1 second. Poison duration has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. Daze interval has been increased from 1 second to 4 seconds. All of these changes affect PvP only.

May 16th

Pulmonary Impact: The damage of this effect has been reduced by 15% in PvP only.
Channeled Vigor: Endurance per tick has been reduced from 20 to 15 in PvP only.
Endurance Thief: Endurance gained has been reduced from 50 to 25 in PvP only.
Vault: The initiative of this skill has been increased from 5 to 6 in PvP only.
Bound (PvP Only): The damage of this ability has been reduced by 24% in PvP only.
Panic Strike: Immobilize duration has been reduced from 2.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only.

February 22nd

Signet of Agility: The endurance gain from this skill has been reduced from 100 to 50 in PvP only.
Channeled Vigor: The endurance gain from this skill has been reduced from 25 to 20 per pulse in PvP only.
Hard to Catch: The internal cooldown on this trait has been increased from 30 seconds to 45 seconds in PvP only.
Upper Hand: The internal cooldown on this trait has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only.

But hey no Nerfs at all, recently not a single one on any of the Balance patches, don’t mind facts at all……

Bolded italics are Daredevil Spec specific, the rest are Thief overall.

Sure nerf daredevil, let’s take away all their mobility because we don’t like not getting free kills. But while you do that give me a thief spec that:
-Has invulns they can spam like everyone else
-Has consistent blocks to spam like everyone else
-Has stab like everyone else
-Has AoE damage to spam like everyone else
-Has bunker abilities that still do a ton of damage so I can be a super tanky damage dealer like everyone else
-Can win 1v1’s on point easily
-Has tons of regen (not the boon) like everyone else
-Has passives that save them from being cced and instead kitten over the person who cced them like everyone else
-Has consistent access to boons that doesn’t require me to take them from people like everyone else
-Doesn’t have to play a dodge spam build in order to not die in 2 hits like everyone else
-Has sustain that doesn’t sacrifice my point presence like everyone else.
-Doesn’t have to be a mobile decap +1 bot to be remotely relevant in the game like everyone else

See a trend? Literally the only reason thief exists in pvp atm is for 1 role and 1 role only. You nerf them out of that top performance spot and it’s bye bye thief forever. And it’s not like people won’t have a chance against daredevil, it’s fairly easy to beat on most if not all of the new especs (partially due to their obscene amounts of condi output, damage output, cc output, mobility to rival thief, etc.)

Also take into account people have had a very long time to practice with daredevil, people know what it does and so ofc it’s going to dominate people playing something new for the first time and having it not be as polished as the daredevil is. All of the specs will be getting changes and polishing to perform better, that’s part of the point of a beta weekend just for trying out the specs. Wait a bit before assuming who the top predators will be. After all, before the beta everyone said scourge and holo would be complete garbage and that weaver would be op… look how that turned out.

Sure nerf daredevil, let’s take away all their mobility because we don’t like not getting free kills. But while you do that give me a thief spec that:
-Has invulns they can spam like everyone else
-Has consistent blocks to spam like everyone else
-Has stab like everyone else
-Has AoE damage to spam like everyone else
-Has bunker abilities that still do a ton of damage so I can be a super tanky damage dealer like everyone else
-Can win 1v1’s on point easily
-Has tons of regen (not the boon) like everyone else
-Has passives that save them from being cced and instead kitten over the person who cced them like everyone else
-Has consistent access to boons that doesn’t require me to take them from people like everyone else
-Doesn’t have to play a dodge spam build in order to not die in 2 hits like everyone else
-Has sustain that doesn’t sacrifice my point presence like everyone else.
-Doesn’t have to be a mobile decap +1 bot to be remotely relevant in the game like everyone else

See a trend? Literally the only reason thief exists in pvp atm is for 1 role and 1 role only. You nerf them out of that top performance spot and it’s bye bye thief forever. And it’s not like people won’t have a chance against daredevil, it’s fairly easy to beat on most if not all of the new especs (partially due to their obscene amounts of condi output, damage output, cc output, mobility to rival thief, etc.)

Also take into account people have had a very long time to practice with daredevil, people know what it does and so ofc it’s going to dominate people playing something new for the first time and having it not be as polished as the daredevil is. All of the specs will be getting changes and polishing to perform better, that’s part of the point of a beta weekend just for trying out the specs. Wait a bit before assuming who the top predators will be. After all, before the beta everyone said scourge and holo would be complete garbage and that weaver would be op… look how that turned out.

bluri.2653:

NotASmurf.1725:

saerni.2584:

Condi on S/D has literally nothing to do with Daredevil.

Impaling Lotus adds 3 conditions to cover the poison stacks just by dodging, 4 with the vulnerability sigil. That’s the only reason condi thief is kinda broken, because cleanses can barely dig through all the cover condis.

choovanski.5462:

ToF really dude? like really?

not like. bugfix firebrand. speed up casttimes. make the 33% cd trait effect virtues. and increase healing power scaling.

feel like that would be far better than nerfing ToF again lol. but I guess if it’s still killing u I get it lol. pretty embarrassing to be rolled by trapper these days.

Then don’t nerf ToF, I don’t care, but something has to be done. No, I have no problem with DHs now, it’s a problem for the future. Have you played against any this weekend on new specs? It’s ridiculously effective for no real effort. Or Daredevil, which makes any future thief spec completely garbage because it outdoes them in every way AND counters them.

I for one do not want another HoT release. Season 1 turned a lot of players away from the game, I do not want another disaster. This is our last chance to make something out of PvP and these 2 cancer specs cannot stay as they are.

Idk I would have loved a sword/sword thief/blademaster type of gameplay and base it around 1v1 instead of some terrible sniper CoD wannabe, it’s so obvious it’s not gonna work in pvp it’s actually laughable. So of course you are gonna have daredevil outperform any thief build in pvp because no one can compete with the +1 role as they do, nerf that and you won’t have any thief in the top tiers, will be down there with what warrior is right now. Like don’t get me wrong I would love to be wrong and get to play something else. I am tired of seeing the same meta that’s why I’m so disappointed in rifle to begin with.

And tbh let them nerf drd to the ground if they want would just give me an excuse to play some other class LUL

Well tbh it wouldn’t be a bad thing if DD mobility was tuned down to be a bit more than core thief but not hugely but instead have better 1v1 capacity…you know how it was advertised. As you say nothing, absolutely nothing can beat DD mobility, I even remember seeing you manage to get to far maybe a second or two after someone who mistformed through a portal.

Lol 5 seconds for Pulm impact. If you keep attacking when one of us are spamming headshot, you need to learn to get beat and learn.

I have never seen more than 2 pulm impacts on 1 person (i dont spam HS but I do do a 1-2 interrupt combo that doesnt usually interrupt both times)

DH it’s hard to balance… its a spec ment to kill easilly when the power creep happens.

Best way would be remove traps

Dragonhunter healing and sustain is pretty ridiculous but you have to completely trait into that playstyle and you can actually see a mild difference in the damage. It still does a lot for how much sustain it has, but for a really great burst against more bunker types you have to time your abilities really well to burst.

Daredevil however, is not something that needs to be nerfed. It does if played as a condi thief, but I don’t really think of a condi thief as a daredevil aside from the condi dodge spam. Daredevil staff is what first comes to mind for me and it’s far from viable unless you just happen to be really skilled at it. I absolutely agree that condi thief is a braindead easy spec to play and is way overdue. But that’s been said for months now and all it seemingly got was more buffs to condi playstyle. So, I guess the lesson is to never complain about any condition-focused spec because condition damage is clearly where Arenanet wants this game to lean towards.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Lol 5 seconds for Pulm impact. If you keep attacking when one of us are spamming headshot, you need to learn to get beat and learn.

I have never seen more than 2 pulm impacts on 1 person (i dont spam HS but I do do a 1-2 interrupt combo that doesnt usually interrupt both times)

I think this may be geared towards choking gas and how rapidly you gain poison stacks before you even have time to move off of choking gas. Combined potential immobilizes from sword or poisons.

cptaylor.2670:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Lol 5 seconds for Pulm impact. If you keep attacking when one of us are spamming headshot, you need to learn to get beat and learn.

I have never seen more than 2 pulm impacts on 1 person (i dont spam HS but I do do a 1-2 interrupt combo that doesnt usually interrupt both times)

I think this may be geared towards choking gas and how rapidly you gain poison stacks before you even have time to move off of choking gas. Combined potential immobilizes from sword or poisons.

You mean the skill that dazes maybe once in it’s whole duration?

You ask Anet to nerf one of weakest classes in pvp (DH) …. The fact that ppl cant counter a DH in low MMR games dont mean that DH needs a nerf…actually needs a big boost to be viable in 5v5 comps

Emmrahil.1934:

You ask Anet to nerf one of weakest classes in pvp (DH) …. The fact that ppl cant counter a DH in low MMR games dont mean that DH needs a nerf…actually needs a big boost to be viable in 5v5 comps

You can’t balance solely for the very top. If something is too strong for a large amount of the playerbase, it needs adjusted. And if you don’t do those nerfs, it’s unlikely that DH will get buffs for more skilled players.

Yeah nerf one spec that has a decent skill cap and if in the hands of a not so good player basically makes you a 4 man team. No thanks. As for DH isn’t even top meta anymore, only good for lower ranks when people just throw themselves @ you.

You want elite options for POF, nerfing one to make everyone move to the next is the wrong way to go. You make both strong.

DH has been nerfed over and over as well, it’s fine where it is.

high risk? thats a joke? thief(the most movile an disengage capable class) oneshoting at 1500 range(300 units more than normal long range atacks) call you high risk?

Ranger says hi. Also, Deadeye doesn’t one shot. Don’t believe set up videos with best conditions possible.

Emmrahil.1934:

You ask Anet to nerf one of weakest classes in pvp (DH) …. The fact that ppl cant counter a DH in low MMR games dont mean that DH needs a nerf…actually needs a big boost to be viable in 5v5 comps

It’s not about low MMR kitten .. I’ll use Overwatch as an example. Blizzard released a new hero (Doomfist) but shortly before they nerfed Roadhog because it was too much of a hardcounter to it even if Roadhog was kinda fine.

Now Anet’s about to release 9 new elite specs and Dh beats the kitten out of about.. 7? of them while Daredevil basically destroys all without any real effort or investment. It’s not going to be healthy for the game but sure let’s just watch as Anet butchers another release and PvP dies, will be fun.

Or worse yet, they’ll buff all new elite specs instead of just nerfing/reworking these 2.

But ok, then let’s ignore DH. Can we at least agree on Daredevil needing a nerf?

I dought u would ever be able to become a smurf if you are asking for dh nerfs

Sly.9518:

cptaylor.2670:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Lol 5 seconds for Pulm impact. If you keep attacking when one of us are spamming headshot, you need to learn to get beat and learn.

I have never seen more than 2 pulm impacts on 1 person (i dont spam HS but I do do a 1-2 interrupt combo that doesnt usually interrupt both times)

I think this may be geared towards choking gas and how rapidly you gain poison stacks before you even have time to move off of choking gas. Combined potential immobilizes from sword or poisons.

You mean the skill that dazes maybe once in it’s whole duration?

If thats the case, then whoever stays in it long enough deserves to get pulm’d lol

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Sly.9518:

cptaylor.2670:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Lol 5 seconds for Pulm impact. If you keep attacking when one of us are spamming headshot, you need to learn to get beat and learn.

I have never seen more than 2 pulm impacts on 1 person (i dont spam HS but I do do a 1-2 interrupt combo that doesnt usually interrupt both times)

I think this may be geared towards choking gas and how rapidly you gain poison stacks before you even have time to move off of choking gas. Combined potential immobilizes from sword or poisons.

You mean the skill that dazes maybe once in it’s whole duration?

If thats the case, then whoever stays in it long enough deserves to get pulm’d lol

The daze can occur on any tick on choking gas including the very first tick.

Ario.8964:

Sure nerf daredevil, let’s take away all their mobility because we don’t like not getting free kills.

Right now there are only two things that can kill a thief in a realistic conquest match: Others thieves, and the thief’s own greed.

give people time to actually develop viable metas. if u nerf the hot builds now u just shift everybody on the PoF bandwagon, this is the chance to actually have improved build diversity. if hot classes are still massively overperforming compared to pof then u can nerf. the meta isn’t settled yet most average joes haven’t even masterd it yet even found a viable build yet.

Thief and warrior have always been the reason why other glass canon specs can’t exist. Both classes have way too many ways to avoid damage while staying offensive, on top of having the strongest, most frequent burst on top of best mobility.

Best fix you could do to thieves is to:

- nerf Shadowstep to only stunbreak on the first port
- Dash removes snares, but not immobilize
- 1/3 sec cast on steal
- Pulmonary Impact 10 sec icd
- Initiative cost of headshot increased
- Bandit’s Defense cd increased to 30 seconds. 15 sec cd on a block, stunbreak, knockdown all in one skill is so ridiculously dumb.

Thief needs to be vulnerable and not have infinite capability to disengage. There should be a point at which a thief pays for their mistakes with death instead of repeatedly disengaging and trying again shortly.

DE is ranged. This fact alone reduces the need for it to be objectively better than DD. DD can be killed with great timing and dmg mitigation or a wall skill and burst damage during the milisecond of vulnerability. Or a kittenton of pulsing AoE when they get close. DD needs this much evade to not just die instantly.
Pulm impact is worthless against good eyeballs or projectile hate.
DH on the other hand, >:(