Guild Wars 2

DH is often cried about about being too strong and too easy to use. People also cry about dying to traps and true shots and blah blah blah. DH is a trash class for 1 reason, it’s too simple. I got on my s/f ele after the patch and consistently won 1v1s against many DHs. S/f was designed with intricacy that DH lacks. Just like how people said Rampage was op (when it wasn’t), people say DH is op because you don’t know how to beat it. As the community gets better in play, when the community learns how to play their class to its fullest potential, DH will become meaningless. It needs the cheese it has while it has it because it’d be rendered useless without it.

DH has two problems:
1. The skill ceiling is too low. If you’re skilled, you can easily beat it.
2. The skill floor is too low. At low and mid skill levels, you can spam buttons and perform exceptionally well as a DH.

The complaints are coming from #2. It’s not a problem that should be ignored. The same can be said about warrior to a slightly lesser extent.

Exedore.6320:

DH has two problems:
1. The skill ceiling is too low. If you’re skilled, you can easily beat it.
2. The skill floor is too low. At low and mid skill levels, you can spam buttons and perform exceptionally well as a DH.

The complaints are coming from #2. It’s not a problem that should be ignored. The same can be said about warrior to a slightly lesser extent.

If you’re bad, embrace death and think of it as a learning opportunity. If you still die to Rampage, it is your fault because it’s so easily beaten. Just as warriors in wvw when it released were free farms and now even the ones without HoT are a problem, the skill of the average player will increase over time.

i have never understood the issue with easy to play classes/characters that are easily counterable at a certain skill level.

i feel like they just grind people’s gears because they feel that they have more skill so they somehow deserve to win, even though they are losing. honestly, as far as im concerned you don’t have enough skill to win if you lose, so it’s not unfair. it’s just bruised ego.

Gwaihir.1745:

Poelala.2830:

Gwaihir.1745:

So you got stomped by a DH but are denying it? I see no other reason to be posting this.

Have you read the actual post? I farmed dragonhunters and realized that their design is too simple to provide any outplay to beat me. Please read next time, thank you.

Besides the fact ive fought you in wvw and you eat traps like no tomorrow. Troll thread.

I haven’t played WvW competitively in months, and when I do these days it’s more of a chill session with friends. We can 1v1 and it can be recorded, hun.

choovanski.5462:

i have never understood the issue with easy to play classes/characters that are easily counterable at a certain skill level.

i feel like they just grind people’s gears because they feel that they have more skill so they somehow deserve to win, even though they are losing. honestly, as far as im concerned you don’t have enough skill to win if you lose, so it’s not unfair. it’s just bruised ego.

+1, you reiterated the message of this post in a way I couldn’t.

choovanski.5462:

i have never understood the issue with easy to play classes/characters that are easily counterable at a certain skill level.

i feel like they just grind people’s gears because they feel that they have more skill so they somehow deserve to win, even though they are losing. honestly, as far as im concerned you don’t have enough skill to win if you lose, so it’s not unfair. it’s just bruised ego.

If developers had attitudes like that, all PvP games would die in a couple months.

At all skill levels, winning or losing needs to be primarily driven by skill; a handful of easy to play builds can’t be allowed to dominate. If low and moderate skill players are up against a brick wall, it’s hard for them to improve. They get frustrated and quit, or they play the ez-mode build, and get bored.

Also remember that many casual players don’t have hours to devote to playing the game; improvement will be gradual. And some will never be top tier.

Poelala.2830:

DH is often cried about about being too strong and too easy to use. People also cry about dying to traps and true shots and blah blah blah. DH is a trash class for 1 reason, it’s too simple. I got on my s/f ele after the patch and consistently won 1v1s against many DHs. S/f was designed with intricacy that DH lacks. Just like how people said Rampage was op (when it wasn’t), people say DH is op because you don’t know how to beat it. As the community gets better in play, when the community learns how to play their class to its fullest potential, DH will become meaningless. It needs the cheese it has while it has it because it’d be rendered useless without it.

Honestly…nobody cares that people win their 1v1 in unranked ..in the middle of nowhere. If you’d bother to look over your own misconception, you’d see that people complain about stacking traps on the point.

Winning a random 1v1…means nothing and never meant anything other than fuel pointless “balance” debates

- You’re playing off season against unskilled opponents, full traps lemmings who run mid, spam all traps and die after

- You have no idea what a skilled player is capable of while using a DH…..absolutely no idea, seen a legendary dh holding off 3 people mid ( my team ) with people of or more less the same rating ; he was a mender bunker running some crazy kitten

- It’s one thing playing against dh spamming blocks off CD followed by random swap to bow…and it’s another playing against dh players with tons of patience…it’s like day and night

Supreme.3164:

Poelala.2830:

DH is often cried about about being too strong and too easy to use. People also cry about dying to traps and true shots and blah blah blah. DH is a trash class for 1 reason, it’s too simple. I got on my s/f ele after the patch and consistently won 1v1s against many DHs. S/f was designed with intricacy that DH lacks. Just like how people said Rampage was op (when it wasn’t), people say DH is op because you don’t know how to beat it. As the community gets better in play, when the community learns how to play their class to its fullest potential, DH will become meaningless. It needs the cheese it has while it has it because it’d be rendered useless without it.

Honestly…nobody cares that people win their 1v1 in unranked ..in the middle of nowhere. If you’d bother to look over your own misconception, you’d see that people complain about stacking traps on the point.

Winning a random 1v1…means nothing and never meant anything other than fuel pointless “balance” debates

- You’re playing off season against unskilled opponents, full traps lemmings who run mid, spam all traps and die after

- You have no idea what a skilled player is capable of while using a DH…..absolutely no idea, seen a legendary dh holding off 3 people mid ( my team ) with people of or more less the same rating ; he was a mender bunker running some crazy kitten

- It’s one thing playing against dh spamming blocks off CD followed by random swap to bow…and it’s another playing against dh players with tons of patience…it’s like day and night

I have no idea where you got this idea that I was talking about 1v1s in the middle of nowhere in unranked. No??? I dueled very experienced DHs in 1v1 arenas and won consistently well. It was easy. Among skilled players, as a DH you cannot stand a chance. Even Sindrener and Min Scherzo (thieves) can take on dragonhunters and win and DH is supposed to be their hard counter! When I say that I can beat a DH as an s/f ele, which isn’t yet a good build, I’m saying that when you reach a certain skill level DH is an easy fight. No, I’m not saying that all builds can beat a DH, I’m saying that most power builds have the potential to. Also, this isn’t a balance debate. This is a statement that as you get better, beating DH gets easier. Please try reading what I say instead of insinuating mountains of claims.

yeah this “argument” is invalid.

GW2 is not based around 1v1’s. Some professions are going to be better at 1v1’s while others are better roamers, while others are better in teamfights etc.

If your statement was valid then add necromancer to that trash tier list.

If you’re saying GW2 is doing a bad job at balancing around 1v1’s then I agree. However, they’re not trying to balance around 1v1’s.

DH also has a higher skill ceiling than people think but are still not the best 1v1 class. They have plenty of tools and maybe if you showed some footage of beating some pro DH’s 1v1 then you might earn a bit more merit.

*cough cough

The Chef

*cough cough

just started dh yesterday, already winning 1v1s

I’ve seen Sindrenerr talk about DH on stream and he said that DH is a bad class, as it always has a better replacement in the composition, when it comes to high tiers of ranked play.
It’s not underpowered tho, buffing it with more numbers wouldn’t make sense. It doesn’t need more damage or healing, what it needs is utility. The problem is, that if you keep its numbers the same and also give them extra utility, then you just made them OP.
Reduce numbers, increase utility. Always works.

poe, beating a dh on an s/f ele isn’t very surprising considering how much projectile defense the spec has.
its actually counter productive to what youre trying to say.

I can’t complain. I love playing my DH. You should all have fun with it.

TheDevice.2751:

yeah this “argument” is invalid.

GW2 is not based around 1v1’s. Some professions are going to be better at 1v1’s while others are better roamers, while others are better in teamfights etc.

If your statement was valid then add necromancer to that trash tier list.

If you’re saying GW2 is doing a bad job at balancing around 1v1’s then I agree. However, they’re not trying to balance around 1v1’s.

DH also has a higher skill ceiling than people think but are still not the best 1v1 class. They have plenty of tools and maybe if you showed some footage of beating some pro DH’s 1v1 then you might earn a bit more merit.

DH is also subpar in the conquest environment. Let me ask you this: what is its role and how is its role better than all of the other classes? Also I was saying that DH is mechanically simple thus will not last long in the meta.

What’s obnoxious to me is warrior has always been labeled as the starter class, easy to use utilities, easy to pick up and is strong. Even as a warrior main I can agree with that.

but then everyone who plays Dragonhunter will say “It takes real skill UNLIKE WARRIOR” when they just spam traps and kill people with very little thought. It’s so easy to pick up and play and do a lot of damage. I don’t even really play guardian in general but I made one and sometimes I kill people I don’t even focus on. Like they’ll step on my traps or I’ll shoot them with the longbow and then “oh cool, they’re down.”

The matchups are just way too forgiving, outside of tempest DH can really handle most 1v1s and such effectively, there isn’t really class that makes a DH say “Oh no I definitely can’t handle that it’s too strong”

DrDivine.5378:

What’s obnoxious to me is warrior has always been labeled as the starter class, easy to use utilities, easy to pick up and is strong. Even as a warrior main I can agree with that.

but then everyone who plays Dragonhunter will say “It takes real skill UNLIKE WARRIOR” when they just spam traps and kill people with very little thought. It’s so easy to pick up and play and do a lot of damage. I don’t even really play guardian in general but I made one and sometimes I kill people I don’t even focus on. Like they’ll step on my traps or I’ll shoot them with the longbow and then “oh cool, they’re down.”

The matchups are just way too forgiving, outside of tempest DH can really handle most 1v1s and such effectively, there isn’t really class that makes a DH say “Oh no I definitely can’t handle that it’s too strong”

Not true, druids that don’t play bad, as well as Scrappers are things that I say I can’t handle. Warriors that know how to use SoM are very scary, but as said before it could go either way. While both DH and Warrior are easy to play, Warrior is easier just for the fact once they get Berserker mode they can just run into your face without a care in the world since pulsing stability, with other buffs ,and a spammable burst skill that rewards them tier 3 usage of AH and CI. Also I have to admit 6k Headbutts are very Lulzy.

Not true, druids that don’t play bad, as well as Scrappers are things that I say I can’t handle. Warriors that know how to use SoM are very scary, but as said before it could go either way. While both DH and Warrior are easy to play, Warrior is easier just for the fact once they get Berserker mode they can just run into your face without a care in the world since pulsing stability, with other buffs ,and a spammable burst skill that rewards them tier 3 usage of AH and CI. Also I have to admit 6k Headbutts are very Lulzy.

I don’t really consider druids or scrappers to be a huge threat to DH, there’s a chance it can go either way. I’d say a DH’s worst enemy is a gunflame warrior. GS warrior vs DH is probably one of my favorite fights to watch currently, but gunflame warrior does almost everything they hate. Extremely strong ranged attack so they can’t bait you into traps, unblockable burst via SoM, they have to come to you which can be a huge mistake.

I consider DH to be the easier to play of the two though, they’re close, but it’s much easier to punish a meta warrior than a meta DH. They have to know how to time that signet of might and not step into traps. If they can’t use those six seconds properly, not only are they going to have a drop in power from the signet pop, but it’s back to block block heal heal spam traps with much lower cooldowns. This doesn’t mean warrior has a high skill level, but if I really had to choose which was the easier to use, definitely DH.

I feel like i am a spam bot at this point: 1 DH isn’t issue for half-decent player, stacked DHs are due to absurd amount of pressure on the point and sheer amount of team support (nearly perma stab, blocks, constant healing and instant rezzes if they hug each other on point).

For example, i would argue that in 1v1 warrior is probably most superior class atm and offer way more than DH in such context, HOWEVER, the moment we get in team environment DHs are by far superior to stacked wars because wars can’t support each other unlike DHs. Pretty much anything DH farts is AoE, often instant.

Cynz.9437:

I feel like i am a spam bot at this point: 1 DH isn’t issue for half-decent player, stacked DHs are due to absurd amount of pressure on the point and sheer amount of team support (nearly perma stab, blocks, constant healing and instant rezzes if they hug each other on point).

For example, i would argue that in 1v1 warrior is probably most superior class atm and offer way more than DH in such context, HOWEVER, the moment we get in team environment DHs are by far superior to stacked wars because wars can’t support each other unlike DHs. Pretty much anything DH farts is AoE, often instant.

nice :-)
someone else who understands.
but tbh, i would argue stacked druids are as bad if not worse.

like, 3 druid, warrior, necro is hell on earth if the players are good.

Yes, meta DH is simple garbage a kitten could play. I probably has 5k pvp games on guardian across mulitple accounts and I can honestly say I have played 0 ranked games on anything close to the meta DH spec. Before I gave up on the bunker playstyle with the removal of Clerics the closest I got was using the DH trait line for condition removal on block and fragment of faiths and heal trap and the over powered DH virtues but that was it. I can’t honestly see why so many people play it besides its fairly strong at lower levels of play. It boring ill designed crap.

DrDivine.5378:

….outside of tempest DH can really handle most 1v1s and such effectively, there isn’t really a class that can make a DH say, “Oh, no I definitely can’t handle that. He’s too strong”

Then you haven’t played in high tier PvP…. but you’re right, DH is easy in everything below Platinum Tier 1 Division.

DH is fine because the casuals are calling it “2 ez” in Gold while the real DH players are incapable of carrying teams like how an Ele, Ranger, or Mesmer would in high Plat/Legendary.

I’m not a “high tier” player by any means but i’m at least able to see exactly where DH is at and right now, we’re “in a [ugly] spot”.

I mainly play mesmer and DH stacked game is still the hardest for me to perform in.

Traps after traps cleave make it incredibly difficult to do any damage on them.

Remember once I thought I baited out the test of faith only to found out it is the trap laid by the other DH.

Exciton.8942:

I mainly play mesmer and DH stacked game is still the hardest for me to perform in.

Traps after traps cleave make it incredibly difficult to do any damage on them.

Remember once I thought I baited out the test of faith only to found out it is the trap laid by the other DH.

…and that is one of examples why 1 DH is managable, but stacked DHs are an issue.

Hello Poelala, I was that charr warr you dueled a few days ago. You are beast with arcane sf ele!

Just want to make a few points as I was a guard exclusive player up to HoT.

The effectiveness of guardian in Spvp depends on the matchup imo. What made them redundant for a long period of time was celestial elementalist and bunker engies highly countered their cookie cutter burst playstyle. Too much projectile hate and far too much aoe sustain meant useless guard in fights, especially once the virtues and utilities have been exhausted.

I believe guard is “bad” upper tier due to the presence of good bunker/mender ele and scrapper. Two of them in a team make the matchup especially hard for guards to play against. The nightmare combination is really Ele, Scrap and necro with a +1 thief or druid in play, classes which will be played to their limit the higher up the tier.

As a guard in lower tiers, I could simply laugh my way through 1v1 v2s against people who walk in and out of tof by themselves but the difficulty gets noticeable upon hitting Diamond or I presume something like Gold 3 plat 1 scale where there is noticeable co-ordination between players. The most noticeable is how poorly a guard fairs against unblockable focus, power spikes from skills like Call of wild/ barrage, necromancer corrupt and marks, warrior signet of might force you to pop renewed focus and dodge spam or die.

I personally don’t think guard is ‘bad class’ by any means, meta team comps and excess of unblockables simply work against them.

I think OP is just saying that once you become experienced enough with a class then a DH becomes quite easy to deal with….

S/F Ele was a bad choice for an example as even a D/D ele could easily beat a DH or even a staff ele…. Latest build I’ve been using to beat most classes has been Marauder Staff Ele with Surging Runes and Lightning Rod traits and so far the only counter I’ve come across is Thieves who can focus.

Of course, this is Unranked, where I can farm up 20+ kills and 1-3 deaths… Seems most of the skilled players aren’t really playing anymore….

sephiroth.4217:

Of course, this is Unranked, where I can farm up 20+ kills and 1-3 deaths… Seems most of the skilled players aren’t really playing anymore….

That’s why this entire thread is bogus and utterly ridiculous …beating a dh in unranked makes the class bad and easy to beat…-_- yeah right.
I faced dh who just run on the point and spam all traps on themselves..with me being several meter away..then I just shoot them down from safe distance….pls..using unranked matches off season is the most absurd argument and it always comes out every off season…only to disappear when ranked starts again and real players come back

Isn’t ele considered a counter to DH? You may have to take that into consideration.

Solstace.2514:

Isn’t ele considered a counter to DH? You may have to take that into consideration.

More or less depending on the build and what you understand by counter.

Ele (healbot meta build) has no damage so he might kill really bad thief in 1v1.

Depending on dh build ele can make him useless giving reflects to whole team or make his sad trap burst disappear by pure heal) or just annoying denying any kills from condi.

Funny fact: overpopulation of dh in queues and his return to meta tier was thanks to removal cleric amulet used only by ele^^.

Mr Godlike.6098:

Solstace.2514:

Isn’t ele considered a counter to DH? You may have to take that into consideration.

More or less depending on the build and what you understand by counter.

Ele (healbot meta build) has no damage so he might kill really bad thief in 1v1.

Depending on dh build ele can make him useless giving reflects to whole team or make his sad trap burst disappear by pure heal) or just annoying denying any kills from condi.

Funny fact: overpopulation of dh in queues and his return to meta tier was thanks to removal cleric amulet used only by ele^^.

Ele does Counter Guardian, mostly the healer support variation of ele, making them very ineffective in teamfights not to mention the DH has 0 chance of even killing you unless you’re just kitten ing like a idle bot for excessive amounts of time. Burst DHs will eventually get forced off the point, unless they’re symbolic point holders.

Fun Facts: Much needed QoL changes on Sword and Scepter also pushed DH/Guardian back into the meta(Symbols on weapons so they better synergize with Zeal and WoP in Honor, and no more dumb reflectable AA chain.). Along with the removal of Merc and Cleric amulets.

I never understood the concept of claiming a class is op because you use it to mow down lower ranks.

I can get on fresh air ele or condi engi and wreck people in gold and unranked too. Doesn’t mean fresh air ele or condi engi is meta or op. The only thing about the number of dh players says is that the class is easy to learn and use.

Kuya.6495:

I never understood the concept of claiming a class is op because you use it to mow down lower ranks.

I can get on fresh air ele or condi engi and wreck people in gold and unranked too. Doesn’t mean fresh air ele or condi engi is meta or op. The only thing about the number of dh players says is that the class is easy to learn and use.

Except plat/legend was also flooded with DHs (but somehow all DH mains would always ignore my posts when i posted screenshots of 4-5 DH teams from plat/legend queues) and the trend was that teams with most DHs usually won the match. If anything, i don’t understand people that continue to spread fairy tale that DH is OP only in low ranks – DH is broken in high ranks as well due to how profitable it is to stack the said spec, higher ranks also don’t change the fact that DH spec is too rewarding for little to no effort. And once again, there is issue that this very spec carries really bad players from low ranks in high ranks where they actually have to rotate and look at map once in a while but since they don’t belong at those rating they just do a lot of stupid mistakes and drag teams down – have seen it way too many times.

Cynz.9437:

Kuya.6495:

I never understood the concept of claiming a class is op because you use it to mow down lower ranks.

I can get on fresh air ele or condi engi and wreck people in gold and unranked too. Doesn’t mean fresh air ele or condi engi is meta or op. The only thing about the number of dh players says is that the class is easy to learn and use.

Except plat/legend was also flooded with DHs (but somehow all DH mains would always ignore my posts when i posted screenshots of 4-5 DH teams from plat/legend queues) and the trend was that teams with most DHs usually won the match. If anything, i don’t understand people that continue to spread fairy tale that DH is OP only in low ranks – DH is broken in high ranks as well due to how profitable it is to stack the said spec, higher ranks also don’t change the fact that DH spec is too rewarding for little to no effort. And once again, there is issue that this very spec carries really bad players from low ranks in high ranks where they actually have to rotate and look at map once in a while but since they don’t belong at those rating they just do a lot of stupid mistakes and drag teams down – have seen it way too many times.

No it wasn’t, it was rare to get stacked DH on a single team, it happens but rarely., my experience from playing in Plat range, a appropriate team comp will beat out a DH stacked comp easy. Especially when you have a support ele and players that aren’t trying to kill themselves by throwing themselves into awful positions. Also you didn’t specify what spec, DH has multiple specs to play from, Symbolic Point Holder, Support, and Medi trapper, Burn DH/Guardian and braindead full Trapper.

Weo weo.6378:

Hello Poelala, I was that charr warr you dueled a few days ago. You are beast with arcane sf ele!

Just want to make a few points as I was a guard exclusive player up to HoT.

The effectiveness of guardian in Spvp depends on the matchup imo. What made them redundant for a long period of time was celestial elementalist and bunker engies highly countered their cookie cutter burst playstyle. Too much projectile hate and far too much aoe sustain meant useless guard in fights, especially once the virtues and utilities have been exhausted.

I believe guard is “bad” upper tier due to the presence of good bunker/mender ele and scrapper. Two of them in a team make the matchup especially hard for guards to play against. The nightmare combination is really Ele, Scrap and necro with a +1 thief or druid in play, classes which will be played to their limit the higher up the tier.

As a guard in lower tiers, I could simply laugh my way through 1v1 v2s against people who walk in and out of tof by themselves but the difficulty gets noticeable upon hitting Diamond or I presume something like Gold 3 plat 1 scale where there is noticeable co-ordination between players. The most noticeable is how poorly a guard fairs against unblockable focus, power spikes from skills like Call of wild/ barrage, necromancer corrupt and marks, warrior signet of might force you to pop renewed focus and dodge spam or die.

I personally don’t think guard is ‘bad class’ by any means, meta team comps and excess of unblockables simply work against them.

Thank you for the compliments but I was referring to mainly how mechanically simple DH is and how that will eventually lead to its downfall because players will inevitably get better. I was not referring to its place currently because it’s in a good, yet unstable spot.

Poelala.2830:

Thank you for the compliments but I was referring to mainly how mechanically simple DH is and how that will eventually lead to its downfall because players will inevitably get better. I was not referring to its place currently because it’s in a good, yet unstable spot.

Nah new season will start and again we will have tons of posts proving that avoiding traps is to hard…after five seasons in row dealing with the same build.

Lucentfir.7430:

Cynz.9437:

Kuya.6495:

I never understood the concept of claiming a class is op because you use it to mow down lower ranks.

I can get on fresh air ele or condi engi and wreck people in gold and unranked too. Doesn’t mean fresh air ele or condi engi is meta or op. The only thing about the number of dh players says is that the class is easy to learn and use.

Except plat/legend was also flooded with DHs (but somehow all DH mains would always ignore my posts when i posted screenshots of 4-5 DH teams from plat/legend queues) and the trend was that teams with most DHs usually won the match. If anything, i don’t understand people that continue to spread fairy tale that DH is OP only in low ranks – DH is broken in high ranks as well due to how profitable it is to stack the said spec, higher ranks also don’t change the fact that DH spec is too rewarding for little to no effort. And once again, there is issue that this very spec carries really bad players from low ranks in high ranks where they actually have to rotate and look at map once in a while but since they don’t belong at those rating they just do a lot of stupid mistakes and drag teams down – have seen it way too many times.

No it wasn’t, it was rare to get stacked DH on a single team, it happens but rarely., my experience from playing in Plat range, a appropriate team comp will beat out a DH stacked comp easy. Especially when you have a support ele and players that aren’t trying to kill themselves by throwing themselves into awful positions. Also you didn’t specify what spec, DH has multiple specs to play from, Symbolic Point Holder, Support, and Medi trapper, Burn DH/Guardian and braindead full Trapper.

Happened a lot to me, was whole reason why i started to play scrapper this season so much. I have been qing a lot with mesmer friend and had to listen pretty much every match his moaning about yet another DH murdering his AI on point.

As far as specs go, it really varies. Full trappers are rare though. I would argue i saw more burn guards than full trappers. Generally majority in my matches were symbols and medi trappers.

Mr Godlike.6098:

Poelala.2830:

Thank you for the compliments but I was referring to mainly how mechanically simple DH is and how that will eventually lead to its downfall because players will inevitably get better. I was not referring to its place currently because it’s in a good, yet unstable spot.

Nah new season will start and again we will have tons of posts proving that avoiding traps is to hard…after five seasons in row dealing with the same build.

GL avoiding layers of invisible traps left on a point by couple DHs, meanwhile while you try to focus one of them in team fight, he rides on group heals, group stab, group protection, group aegis and worst case worst, gets instantly rezzed by buddy DHs.

I really wish DH traps would be designed like thief/ranger traps and DHs wouldn’t have support range of core guardian – maybe then they would realize issue with the spec.

Cynz.9437:

Lucentfir.7430:

Cynz.9437:

Kuya.6495:

-Snip-

-snip-

-snip-

Happened a lot to me, was whole reason why i started to play scrapper this season so much. I have been qing a lot with mesmer friend and had to listen pretty much every match his moaning about yet another DH murdering his AI on point.

As far as specs go, it really varies. Full trappers are rare though. I would argue i saw more burn guards than full trappers. Generally majority in my matches were symbols and medi trappers.

Mr Godlike.6098:

Poelala.2830:

Thank you for the compliments but I was referring to mainly how mechanically simple DH is and how that will eventually lead to its downfall because players will inevitably get better. I was not referring to its place currently because it’s in a good, yet unstable spot.

Nah new season will start and again we will have tons of posts proving that avoiding traps is to hard…after five seasons in row dealing with the same build.

GL avoiding layers of invisible traps left on a point by couple DHs, meanwhile while you try to focus one of them in team fight, he rides on group heals, group stab, group protection, group aegis and worst case worst, gets instantly rezzed by buddy DHs.

I really wish DH traps would be designed like thief/ranger traps and DHs wouldn’t have support range of core guardian – maybe then they would realize issue with the spec.

1:) And it happened to me a few times, and i swapped to ele and made their team comp ineffective when i came across it assuming we didn’t have a ele already, good to see you’re picking up something else to help deal with your problem now. Also killing clones is a way to lessen damage output unless he’s thinking DH specifically shouldn’t be able to kill clones on point?

2:) Full trappers are rare but they still appear, it’s a braindead play style like D/D Thief or Ghost thief in WvW except you’re not dealing with perma stealth with DH, you’re dealing with burst AoE.

It varies because DH/Guardian has multiple build paths, and not just one unlike other professions. Unless you’re saying that in every match every DH runs the same build because it’s bork af?

3) Normally you would think this is how it all plays out as you describe but it actually doesn’t, DHs are really squishy without blocks, necromancers ,warriors, and people with unblockables can make minced meat out of a DH trying to Rez. It’s not like revenant where I have infused light on Rezing or just glint heal itself, DH can get sacked by cleave and DPS, and they’re even easier targets when they’re ressing with shield up because you can go behind them and still cleave downed and the DH. I’ve been in that situation before, thinking I could probably get the guy up, but no the other team was smart enough to pop me with CCs and damage and still got the kill while I wasted survival tools trying to get the person up.

Everything else you described can be done by a ele , and done better outside of Aegis and group stab. Group stab is tied to F3 using virtues line, that’s blowing a big CD, unless you’re talking SYG, then you’re probably describing a support shout DH.

4) You actually say that when WvW has ghost thieves even being complained about how bs it is? Rangers don’t use their traps anymore because they used to be throwable from a range, now you have to awkwardly get into melee range as ranged condi class to output low condi damage? If you ask me they should probably make them throwable again and bump up the stacks per pulse. What you say about wishing DH didn’t have access to guard support range doesn’t make sense. If it didn’t it would be a stand alone traitline and weapon just like how if you removed Thief from Daredevil you’d just have daredevil as one traitline, set of skills and staff. Unless you’re willing to clarify what you mean?

1) point was, there were stacked dhs pretty much every match
2) someone asked what specs they were running, i answered, simple as it is
3) the problem, once again, is stacked DHs…. they amount of damage and support they bring is just not balanced. Yes, single DH has weakness, the stacked ones not so much. I will just bring warriors as example (which are arguably best bruisers atm), if i stack warriors, not much changes because while they bring great dps and great survival they actually don’t bring no where near as much team support as DHs do and this what i have issue with. If DHs want to dps, let them, but they shouldn’t bring so much team support with them. If they want support, sure, but at costs of damage/point pressure. And as side note, they still have by far better mobility than said warriors on top of it. The lack of trade off is what has been killing pvp since HoT came out.
As far as ele goes, ele doesn’t bring nowhere near as much damage/on point pressure like DH…. i don’t understand how can you even compare.
4) WvW is irrelevant because of food/runes/gear/lack of objectives. Ghost thief is useless in pvp for a reason. My point is, i wish devs would treat traps equally. Because right now DHs traps are by far superior to traps of other classes. And as my point above – there needs to be a trade off. Too much dmg, on point pressure, support and mobility in one spec is never a good combo, not to mention in case of DH a very easy combo to play on top of it, turret engi level easy. There needs to be a trade off, the skill floor needs to be raised. There are 10000 ways to do it, e.g. traps rework.

Cynz.9437:

1) point was, there were stacked dhs pretty much every match
2) someone asked what specs they were running, i answered, simple as it is
3) the problem, once again, is stacked DHs…. they amount of damage and support they bring is just not balanced. Yes, single DH has weakness, the stacked ones not so much. I will just bring warriors as example (which are arguably best bruisers atm), if i stack warriors, not much changes because while they bring great dps and great survival they actually don’t bring no where near as much team support as DHs do and this what i have issue with. If DHs want to dps, let them, but they shouldn’t bring so much team support with them. If they want support, sure, but at costs of damage/point pressure. And as side note, they still have by far better mobility than said warriors on top of it. The lack of trade off is what has been killing pvp since HoT came out.
As far as ele goes, ele doesn’t bring nowhere near as much damage/on point pressure like DH…. i don’t understand how can you even compare.
4) WvW is irrelevant because of food/runes/gear/lack of objectives. Ghost thief is useless in pvp for a reason. My point is, i wish devs would treat traps equally. Because right now DHs traps are by far superior to traps of other classes. And as my point above – there needs to be a trade off. Too much dmg, on point pressure, support and mobility in one spec is never a good combo, not to mention in case of DH a very easy combo to play on top of it, turret engi level easy. There needs to be a trade off, the skill floor needs to be raised. There are 10000 ways to do it, e.g. traps rework.

1)Stacked DHs yet are they all the same build, or is it a result of build variety? Your argument for stacked DH trying to throw the entire profession under the bus as being OP because it’s stacked. In case you didn’t know stacked means more than 2 on one team at a time. So again is it stacked because it’s OP or is it because of build variety?

2)You didn’t answer it simply, you gave me a answer saying rarely full trappers, but burn guard more often than trapper DH, but the regular for you would be between symbolic(point holder) and Medi trapper(DPS). So a variety of 4 different specs possible specs combination, excluding the rare support guard variant I didn’t even bring up.

3)Same as 1, though honestly, I think you’re really over estimating the effectiveness of the support a DH actually brings even when stacked. Outside of a frontal 4s block on high CD with the possibility for traited stab, a ground targeted leap heal with possible 3 condi removal for teammates that you hit(traited) and a few aegis(1 block)? Will these keep my necro from being plowed by the other team’s focus, can this support really replace a ele support?Can you not counter guard blocks with unblockables and SoC with positioning?

Your example with Warrior is poor too, considering that while warriors don’t bring the team support a guardian brings since they’re more of a selfish class by design outside of shouts and banners they bring better lockdown capabilities, compared to DH (Shield Bash, Headbutt, Skullcrack/Skullgrinder, Pommel Bash.)

Your argument is the support DH brings while damage they do is isn’t balanced. The best support is ele, while it very minimal damage, it’s a class that can single handedly keep a entire team alive, while the amounts of DHs stacked as DPS specs is nothing compared to what a single ele can give in support, Ele lacks the damage but essentially can be a immovable object especially against Guardians/Dhs.

The trade off system is moreso just revamped now, considering E-specs are in the system . Tradeoffs will be when there are more E-specs present, if you balance around core and nerf E-specs to core level, when they release another E-spec we’re going to be back to square one, where the new released E-Spec would be the best in slot. Core specs need something else to make them competative against E-specs rather than just trait changes, since that affects Especs too.

4) It is actually relevant considering that WvW is a form of PVP, and in WvW thief traps are far from useless and even considered cheese out there. If stealth did contribute to capture point you’d see more thieves abusing traps. Your scope is really narrow since DH traps aren’t the only ones victim of E-spec skills being better compared to other professions baseline counter part utilities, look at DD Physical utilites compared to Warrior’s. Druid’s Glyphs compared to Eles, Necro and ele shouts compared to Guardian and Warrior shouts, Scrapper gyros to Spirit weapons?

DH has nice damage, good point pressure, okay support, and general mobility is meh but good combat mobility with sword. Your thief bias is showing, the only spec that’s turret engi level of easy to play on DH would be the full trapper build but you decide to throw the whole profession on the same level.