Guild Wars 2

You could tweak your build. Thieves are one of the strongest few professions at the moment, and they’re very resistant to cc.

Most teams will take one or maybe two tanky builds, and 3 or 4 roaming or teamfight dps.

a t s e.9614:

I play D\D btw

not many people play d/d anymore in tpvp, and for good reasons

Thief, ele, and mesmer start with lower overall armor and health than the other classes. In solo q, communication is nonexistent so you’re better off bringing a warrior, ranger, engineer, guardian, or necromancer because all those classes start with more survivability.

In team arena, it’s assumed you go in with VOIP and teammates you know and respect. You have more freedom there because you can peel for each other, call out when you go down so you can use res skills, etc. Obviously, Denial didn’t have a problem with a Thief and Mesmer on their team.

Point is – you want to use classes that are inherently harder to kill in solo Q

Yea but thats the thing , burst builds dont do enough damage for
having next to 0 survability while tanks still get the power
From soldier gear.

Damage dealers aren’t underpowered. They’re just all too gimmicky and die if their big burst falls through. In fact. They still do too much damage. If you as me this should happen:
- Give burst builds less burst.
- Increase the sustain a bit on burst builds so their damage isn’t packed into a 1-2 second long combo.
- Make bunker builds a little less tanky.

For this reason, and people hate me for saying it, but I think the game would work best if everyone was forced to use a Celestial amulet and have runes/sigils and build define your build, so overall stats would be more balanced but there’d still be great room for customization. That, and it’d open up way more builds because people wouldn’t be forced into all tank or all damage, hybrids would shine more. And where there’s hybrid there’s more variety. That’s just my 2 cents, but I know people would feel lost without their amulet

(And what I mean by this is that all accessories, including the amulet would go away, and just have Celestial stats on all armor, obviously more than pve, so that it would be the equivalent of having a Celestial amulet on when you’re fully armored.)

And then perhaps the weapon could still be chosen stats that would work just like the Traveler’s armor currently, by right clicking on it while its on you and just chosing a type. I’d love this. However, it’s not real likely that they’d ever consider this because people would THINK it lowers variety. People can’t take things past face value. :/

DPS builds in every PvP MMO lose to tanks. It’s by design.

You’re trading strong solo ability for the power to burst through healing and actually kill people. A tank sacrifices the damage output needed to kill a healer (bunkers in GW2), and in exchange they get the health and armor to outlast DPS.

I look at running heavy zerker builds on those three classes like this – you’re a closer not a dueler. If you’re trying to 1v1 people then you’re going to be at a disadvantage more often than not.

You gotta fight dirty as a high risk DPS

Caffynated.5713:

DPS builds in every PvP MMO lose to tanks. It’s by design.

You’re trading strong solo ability for the power to burst through healing and actually kill people. A tank sacrifices the damage output needed to kill a healer (bunkers in GW2), and in exchange they get the health and armor to outlast DPS.

This.

Rock / Paper / Scissors

No single class/build can win every 1v1 against everyone. As a thief, your counter is tank builds.

Problem is still the same, dps builds are not getting survivability while cond dmg specs do (Only exception would be d\p thief glass cannon with some survivability due to stealth, but since there’s still broken s\d pressure build aviable nobody is playing it anyway)…both from amulets and traits.

High dmg builds both condition and burst MUST have low survivability, if you spec for survivability as a bunker you should deal almost no dmg (Like bunker guardians) all i see are tanky-crazyregen-permastability-condition immune wars hitting like trains, permadodging rangers oneshotting glass eles (Yeah dat ostrich’s video) and so on….if you deal high damage, any sort of it from burning, to FEAR, to burst, to stacking bleeds spamming autoattack like a braindead you MUST NOT have decent survivability and any other dmg spec should be able to kill you if he plays better…you can’t just trishot a mesmer permastunning it and then tank up other 2 players for 30+ seconds…it’s stupid…and you know it

^
Condition builds are completely broken right now. They can spec to be bunkers while still bursting people down with 3k+ DPS from conditions.

Condition damage adds too much DPS for just one stat. The system itself is broken right now because power damage builds need to stack 3 stats to deal the damage of a condition spammer.

Archaon.6245:

Problem is still the same, dps builds are not getting survivability while cond dmg specs do (Only exception would be d\p thief glass cannon with some survivability due to stealth, but since there’s still broken s\d pressure build aviable nobody is playing it anyway)…both from amulets and traits.

High dmg builds both condition and burst MUST have low survivability, if you spec for survivability as a bunker you should deal almost no dmg (Like bunker guardians) all i see are tanky-crazyregen-permastability-condition immune wars hitting like trains, permadodging rangers oneshotting glass eles (Yeah dat ostrich’s video) and so on….if you deal high damage, any sort of it from burning, to FEAR, to burst, to stacking bleeds spamming autoattack like a braindead you MUST NOT have decent survivability and any other dmg spec should be able to kill you if he plays better…you can’t just trishot a mesmer permastunning it and then tank up other 2 players for 30+ seconds…it’s stupid…and you know it

This this and so this. But the problem is, aNet don’t see it as being an issue, if the leaked patch notes are correct they are not addressing this current meta. The proposed “fix” to warrior CC that’s being banded around is not a fix, it will only shave 0.1 second off applied CC, warriors will still be chain stunning, doing too much damage whilst still having tank like survivability. Heavy condition builds will still be tanky and still be able to out DPS actual DPS professions by just spamming a few abilities.

The whole risk/reward thing seems to have completely missed aNet and unfortunately the game has turned into Bunker Wars 2

Thoth Divine.8642:

Caffynated.5713:

DPS builds in every PvP MMO lose to tanks. It’s by design.

You’re trading strong solo ability for the power to burst through healing and actually kill people. A tank sacrifices the damage output needed to kill a healer (bunkers in GW2), and in exchange they get the health and armor to outlast DPS.

This.

Rock / Paper / Scissors

No single class/build can win every 1v1 against everyone. As a thief, your counter is tank builds.

So what’s a counter for a tank?? Burst?? You’ve just said it’s not a thief, so what is it? Another tank? Because that’s the only option left.

I am against Rock Paper Scissors. I think the game should have a relatively even chance against any other build. Maybe not strait 50/50 but 40/70 is a pretty fair ratio when a class or build is given an advantage.

But if you have to play Rock Paper Scissors I feel it should go:

Burst breaks Bunkers, Condis melt Burst, and Bunkers outlast condi.

But true Rock Paper Scissors is dumb and no point playing a game like this if it remains that way. Might as well go play WoW despite the loss in subs it still actually has a population.

Loco.4561:

So what’s a counter for a tank?? Burst?? You’ve just said it’s not a thief, so what is it? Another tank? Because that’s the only option left.

GW2 generally avoids hard counters because it avoids the trinity. However, in general sustained dps beats tank, and that is also true in GW2, in general.

In a traditional MMO, tanks are either killed by focus fire or by ignoring them until their healers/dps are dead. No one goes up and just duels a tank randomly in some corner of the map…GW2 is different in that a good player with a good build can find an appropriate time to duel a pure tank and win.

Too many people here expect their build to do everything…

If you build glass cannon you have to expect to die as fast as you kill.

If you think condi burst > zerker burst, (wtf? /facepalm /facekeyboard /headwall) cleanse?

If you get rekt by CC maybe carry stability/stunbreakers/invuln/relevant traits.

Caffynated.5713:

^
Condition builds are completely broken right now. They can spec to be bunkers while still bursting people down with 3k+ DPS from conditions.

Condition damage adds too much DPS for just one stat. The system itself is broken right now because power damage builds need to stack 3 stats to deal the damage of a condition spammer.

Completely agreed. After playing on the solo que ladder recently I realized that probably about half the player base is running bunker engineers and necromancers, sitting on points spamming aoe conditions. I play warrior main and i realize that warrior is really stronk right now. However, at the moment there exists no option for dealing with those bunker condi spammers other than HARD CC. It just so happens that warrior has pretty much all the practical hard CC at the moment.

Essentially Condi spam necros/engis and hammer/mace warriors are completely broken right now, but they balance each other. They both need to be looked at and toned down for other practical options to emerge.

Rarnark.5623:

Caffynated.5713:

^
Condition > broken

Completely agreed.

O.o

Skills/traits and runes that offer cleanse can be found here.

It’s already possible for many classes (especially warrior by the way bud) to have great control over incoming conditions which is why condition builds need to be tankier to sustain through all the cleanse.

‘Zerker wars can rip through ~18k health + protection in under 3 seconds (This is the build I’ve experienced). Not sure how anyone thinks conditions can do better “burst” than that…

Brew Pinch.5731:

Rarnark.5623:

Caffynated.5713:

^
Condition > broken

Completely agreed.

O.o

Skills/traits and runes that offer cleanse can be found here.

It’s already possible for many classes (especially warrior by the way bud) to have great control over incoming conditions which is why condition builds need to be tankier to sustain through all the cleanse.

‘Zerker wars can rip through ~18k health + protection in under 3 seconds (This is the build I’ve experienced). Not sure how anyone thinks conditions can do better “burst” than that…

Did you just try to compare 900-1200 range condi spam to melee range burst that requires CC to land?

Even then, the damage difference isn’t that much once the setup time is counted in. A necro can easily apply burning, poison, 15 stacks of bleed, 3 stacks of torment and terror to you in the space of 5 seconds. That’s close to 4k DPS from a build that can face tank 40k+ damage before he even needs to dodge or heal. It might not be S/D ele burst, but it will melt most builds in a few seconds, most of which they will spend CC’d.

Considering it ignores armor, is stupidly easy to land and can be done from a safe range, you have to be joking. You expect everyone to bring 3 stun breakers and be able to spam cleanse conditions (many of which will be cover spam like weakness, chill, cripple) while the condi spammers just keeps reapplying them faster than they come off. I’ve used ether renewal in a fight against a SB ranger, and his 1 spam just kept covering up all the other conditions faster than ether renewal could remove the bleed.

Don’t even get me started on the counters to power damage like weakness and protection that do nothing to conditions.

This is true. Condi/toughness builds completely overpower DPS. Simply because DPS classes are too squishy cant do much due to that.

No Mr.WoW there is no Rock / Paper / Scissors

we are here in gw2 and here we dont have such stupid design – in gw2 everyone is suppoused to do everything – heal tank or dps and everyone should can fight veryone others + have a real chance to win with skill

when there are classes which are hardcounter to others than this is cleary faildesign and “OP” and need to be nerfed/fixed

and for the thread
squishi classes like thief mesmer ele are not suppousted to facetank damage they have tools to migate the damage by not being there – when they fail at this THAN they are bad OR the tools are not good enough OR the damage they trie to migate is jsut overpowered BY damage BY no skillanimations to see it BY condi/aoe/whateverspam

this

Caffynated.5713:

Brew Pinch.5731:

Rarnark.5623:

Caffynated.5713:

^
Condition > broken

Completely agreed.

O.o

Skills/traits and runes that offer cleanse can be found here.

It’s already possible for many classes (especially warrior by the way bud) to have great control over incoming conditions which is why condition builds need to be tankier to sustain through all the cleanse.

‘Zerker wars can rip through ~18k health + protection in under 3 seconds (This is the build I’ve experienced). Not sure how anyone thinks conditions can do better “burst” than that…

Did you just try to compare 900-1200 range condi spam to melee range burst that requires CC to land?

Even then, the damage difference isn’t that much once the setup time is counted in. A necro can easily apply burning, poison, 15 stacks of bleed, 3 stacks of torment and terror to you in the space of 5 seconds. That’s close to 4k DPS from a build that can face tank 40k+ damage before he even needs to dodge or heal. It might not be S/D ele burst, but it will melt most builds in a few seconds, most of which they will spend CC’d.

Considering it ignores armor, is stupidly easy to land and can be done from a safe range, you have to be joking. You expect everyone to bring 3 stun breakers and be able to spam cleanse conditions (many of which will be cover spam like weakness, chill, cripple) while the condi spammers just keeps reapplying them faster than they come off. I’ve used ether renewal in a fight against a SB ranger, and his 1 spam just kept covering up all the other conditions faster than ether renewal could remove the bleed.

Don’t even get me started on the counters to power damage like weakness and protection that do nothing to conditions.

I feel like things have come full circle.

The unskilled players fought condition builds > OP.

They moved to condition builds and encountered CC/burst > OP!

They moved to CC/burst and now the old builds are OP!!

Hilarious.

Brew Pinch.5731:

Caffynated.5713:

Brew Pinch.5731:

Rarnark.5623:

Caffynated.5713:

^
Condition > broken

Completely agreed.

O.o

Skills/traits and runes that offer cleanse can be found here.

It’s already possible for many classes (especially warrior by the way bud) to have great control over incoming conditions which is why condition builds need to be tankier to sustain through all the cleanse.

‘Zerker wars can rip through ~18k health + protection in under 3 seconds (This is the build I’ve experienced). Not sure how anyone thinks conditions can do better “burst” than that…

Did you just try to compare 900-1200 range condi spam to melee range burst that requires CC to land?

Even then, the damage difference isn’t that much once the setup time is counted in. A necro can easily apply burning, poison, 15 stacks of bleed, 3 stacks of torment and terror to you in the space of 5 seconds. That’s close to 4k DPS from a build that can face tank 40k+ damage before he even needs to dodge or heal. It might not be S/D ele burst, but it will melt most builds in a few seconds, most of which they will spend CC’d.

Considering it ignores armor, is stupidly easy to land and can be done from a safe range, you have to be joking. You expect everyone to bring 3 stun breakers and be able to spam cleanse conditions (many of which will be cover spam like weakness, chill, cripple) while the condi spammers just keeps reapplying them faster than they come off. I’ve used ether renewal in a fight against a SB ranger, and his 1 spam just kept covering up all the other conditions faster than ether renewal could remove the bleed.

Don’t even get me started on the counters to power damage like weakness and protection that do nothing to conditions.

I feel like things have come full circle.

The unskilled players fought condition builds > OP.

They moved to condition builds and encountered CC/burst > OP!

They moved to CC/burst and now the old builds are OP!!

Hilarious.

Not really, condi/tank is the best spec right now. You can simply dodge a warriors only thing that actually makes him sem-lethal, his stun. I literally only have to dodge this 1 very noticeable attack, and the warrior will pretty much die.

I mained mesmer until realizing this after playing about 8 hours in hotjoin/soloq that bursty builds can be good, but in the end you are just gimping yourself.

I spoke to TWO of the best mesmers in the world, and they both rolled thief and pretty much stopped playing mesmer…I was hoping to hear cool advice from them and stuff, but was let down when even they abandoned their own class.

We will see what happens with tomorrows patch, but I think I have to sadly give up mesmer.

Warrior have like 30k hp, cleansing ire, 3 shout which remove conditions and you still die conditions and healing signet out heal most of condi dmg anyways.

a t s e.9614:

I play D\D btw

There’s your first problem.

a t s e.9614:

I play D\D btw

There’s your problem

a t s e.9614:

I play D\D btw

Emmmm . . . . in this condi meta no way to play it . . . i think this is your main problem.

a t s e.9614:

This meta.is a.nightmare for squishies aka.thieves\ele\mesmer.
I think precision needs a serious buff so it will
allow us to get other stats\utilities . And really
Tooooooo much Cc its like theres too much of it .
Im not asking stability while in stealth but at
Least some kind of thing that prevents warriors
And guardians to play ping pong with my character.

Your basically asking for what is in this suggestion thread. A 1s CC cool down so you don’t get bounced around between stun, kd, fear chains.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/stun-breakers-grant-temp-CC-immunity/first#post3021998