Guild Wars 2

Consider hgh engi damage in team fight. Anet talked about nerfing aoe.. Same with Shatter mesmer.. Isn’t it too high?.. Buff single target classes or nerf aoe…Hgh is too high dmg 25 stack aoe 24/7 and high survivability…!!!!1 infraction points pls!!! anet.. u so good at it.. L—::!!! :——-)

Chukree.1756:

Consider hgh engi damage in team fight. Anet talked about nerfing aoe.. Same with Shatter mesmer.. Isn’t it too high?.. Buff single target classes or nerf aoe…Hgh is too high dmg 25 stack aoe 24/7 and high survivability…!!!!1 infraction points pls!!! anet.. u so good at it.. L—::!!! :——-)

I don’t think anyone is meant to be able to have decent sustain. ANET’s vision of great pvp is a game where all fights are over within 2 minutes and anything longer than that is because both are playing completely OP builds.

I don’t mind the damage as much. What irks me the most is the an Engineer can hand toss grenades further than a warrior can shoot a longbow. How does that make sense?

Spam grenades requires skill…it’s not that they are also bunkers….oh wait.

They did give several nerfs to engies. Both to our burn uptime, and to elixir s.

It’s thanks to a GM trait. also considering the long and slow flight times of granades. using them at max distance is usually very ineffective

while this is probably a troll thread, i feel that some things could be tweaked without killing the build

steel packed powder should have a short cd, maybe ~5-8s

shrapnel grenade should have its cd increased to 10s

hgh should lower the might gained from drinking an elixir to 1 instead of 2

base duration for hgh might should be ~10-15s

The nice thing about hgh is when there is a heavy bunker guardian in clocktower, you can stand on the window and just dps him down easily.

Theplayboy.6417:

I don’t mind the damage as much. What irks me the most is the an Engineer can hand toss grenades further than a warrior can shoot a longbow. How does that make sense?

Do you even lift?

hamsteak.1368:

while this is probably a troll thread, i feel that some things could be tweaked without killing the build

steel packed powder should have a short cd, maybe ~5-8s

shrapnel grenade should have its cd increased to 10s

hgh should lower the might gained from drinking an elixir to 1 instead of 2

base duration for hgh might should be ~10-15s

If you implement all these 4 changes together it is gonna be really huge nerf (once again) to engineer.

Engineer is not the only profession, which can do might stacking. E.g. many warriors can do that as well e.g. Signet of rage + For Great Justice and Forceful greatswords trait. That doesn’t even require a grandmaster trait, yet engineer needs to run multiple elixirs and grandmaster trait (very much limiting his build). Elementalist can do that as well.

Engineer has good long rang AoE condition damage if you equip the grenadier grandmaster trait + few other traits (but grenades are actually the most effective at melee range). That is in fact one the rare areas engineer shines against other professions. Take away that and then engineer really becomes master of none.

And if you want to increase the cooldown of some grenade kit skills, why not to first fix the trait related to it? Short fuse still doesn’t function underwater with the grenadier trait.

Supply crate doesn’t trigger any 6xrune triggered on elite effect (e.g. Lyssa).

I could go on.

I am afraid Arenanet will once again nerf the engineer profession, which still remains the rarest profession in pve and a rarity in WvWvW as well. Guild Wars 2 game balance shouldn’t be decided by tpvp alone. Now why would e.g. any engineer use Elixir S in pve after the recent “balance” changes (in fact why would it anyone still use it in pvp or WvWvW? the current form of elixir S is just a pro-longed death sentence and elixir R is a better choice). Are we seeing Lion’s Arch full of teams looking for engineers only for their dungeon run? No, but constantly people are looking only for warriors, guardians and mesmers. Yet guardians and warriors were buffed in pve in the latest “balancing” patch. Hits my head against the wall.

Please stop destroying the engineer profession so that it remains competitive in pve.

Deniara Devious.3948:

hamsteak.1368:

while this is probably a troll thread, i feel that some things could be tweaked without killing the build

steel packed powder should have a short cd, maybe ~5-8s

shrapnel grenade should have its cd increased to 10s

hgh should lower the might gained from drinking an elixir to 1 instead of 2

base duration for hgh might should be ~10-15s

If you implement all these 4 changes together it is gonna be really huge nerf (once again) to engineer.

Engineer is not the only profession, which can do might stacking. E.g. many warriors can do that as well e.g. Signet of rage + For Great Justice and Forceful greatswords trait. That doesn’t even require a grandmaster trait, yet engineer needs to run multiple elixirs and grandmaster trait (very much limiting his build). Elementalist can do that as well.

Engineer has good long rang AoE condition damage if you equip the grenadier grandmaster trait + few other traits (but grenades are actually the most effective at melee range). That is in fact one the rare areas engineer shines against other professions. Take away that and then engineer really becomes master of none.

And if you want to increase the cooldown of some grenade kit skills, why not to first fix the trait related to it? Short fuse still doesn’t function underwater with the grenadier trait.

Supply crate doesn’t trigger any 6xrune triggered on elite effect (e.g. Lyssa).

I could go on.

I am afraid Arenanet will once again nerf the engineer profession, which still remains the rarest profession in pve and a rarity in WvWvW as well. Guild Wars 2 game balance shouldn’t be decided by tpvp alone. Now why would e.g. any engineer use Elixir S in pve after the recent “balance” changes (in fact why would it anyone still use it in pvp or WvWvW? the current form of elixir S is just a pro-longed death sentence and elixir R is a better choice). Are we seeing Lion’s Arch full of teams looking for engineers only for their dungeon run? No, but constantly people are looking only for warriors, guardians and mesmers. Yet guardians and warriors were buffed in pve in the latest “balancing” patch. Hits my head against the wall.

Please stop destroying the engineer profession so that it remains competitive in pve.

yes, other classes can stack might

even thieves can stack might

the reason hgh is so powerful is because of the grenade kit, when’s the last time you heard “omg anet flamethrower hgh so op”

there’s an issue when an engineer can just sit back and spam grenades and actually kill people who are on a point (and don’t say throwing grenades takes ‘skill’ it’s stupidly easy)

the abilities i listed would not hurt engineers that much, steel packed powder in it’s current incarnation is ridiculous, reducing the base duration of hgh might would hardly even affect it seeing as they stack might duration runes

i don’t want hgh to be nerfed to ground, i actually want other builds to be buffed slightly along with a small nerf to hgh so most engineers actually decide to try out diferent specs

i see you mention pve, they could separate the traits for pvp/pve like they’ve done with other traits, but keeping hgh as it is is pretty silly

edit: oops i used the wrong word

hamsteak.1368:

the reason hgh is so powerful is because of the grenade kit, when’s the last time you heard “omg anet flamethrower hgh so op”

there’s an issue when an engineer can just sit back and spam grenades and actually kill people who are on a point (and don’t say throwing grenades takes ‘skill’ it’s stupidly easy)

the abilities i listed would not hurt engineers that much, steel packed powder in it’s current incarnation is ridiculous, reducing the base duration of hgh might would hardly even affect it seeing as they stack might duration runes

i don’t want hgh to be nerfed to ground, i actually want other builds to be buffed slightly along with a small nerf to hgh so most engineers actually decide to try out diferent specs

i see you mention pve, they could separate the traits for pvp/pve like they’ve done with other traits, but keeping hgh as it is is pretty silly

My pvp experience is weak, but with hundreds of hours of WvWvW fights, mostly solo roaming, I have of course fought against numerous engineers as an engineer. I agree that hitting a stationary target with the grenade kit is easy. But if you both you and the enemy are moving, it actually takes a lot of skill to land to grenades. I find it very easy to dodge the enemy grenades if I just move in a non-straight line, almost nothing hits me from distance.

You suggestion to steel-packed powder is actually gonna nerf that trait to ground and also hurt the bomb kit users: If it would have 5-8 s internal cooldown (like you suggested), it would allow engineers to put just one stack of vulnerability as the vulnerability from that trait lasts 5 seconds. One stack of vulnerability is very little, consider that many other skills and traits pack a lot of vulnerability:
e.g. brutal shot (warrior rifle #4) 8 stacks of vulnerability.
hunter’s shot (ranger longbow #3) 10 stacks of vulnerability
ice spike (elementalist staff #2) 5 stacks of vulnerability
And the vulnerability from these lasts from 8-12 seconds.
Not to mention autoattacks, which stack vulnerability e.g.
rending claws (necro axe #1), giving 2 stacks of vulnerability on a fast auto attack
greatsword swing & slice (warrior greatsword #1)
and so on…
See:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vulnerability

So for other professions it is okay to stack lots of vulnerability without the need for any trait. Yet you want that engineers can get just 1 stack of vulnerability which lasts 5 seconds on 5-8 second cooldown.

Stop balancing the game based on a game mode, where you need to be inside a circle to cap a point (spvp/tpvp). Has anybody been hearing complaints like oh, the engineers are too powerful in pve or in WvWvW? Or that grenade kit should be nerfed as it does more damage that 100 blades? Yet Arenanet has nerfed engineer with every single monthly update and the skill “balance” changes related to the engineer have affected WvWvW and pve in negative way. E.g. last update gave major or minor buffs to other professions, while engineers got: nerfed survivability traits, destroyed elixir S and 50% reduction to confusion damage in WvWvW. I actually think the latter was good. Confusion was too powerful in WvWvW and it should be kept that way. Same damage in WvWvW as in pvp.

For your information: I don’t play HGH engineer. I know for sure Anet is going to destroy that build as well, as it did with 100 nades (they just didn’t tone down the damage from kit refinement, they removed it completely… LOL, imagine 50% dmg nerf to backstab, 100blades, killshot, eviscerate… need I go on).

google.3709:

It’s thanks to a GM trait. also considering the long and slow flight times of granades. using them at max distance is usually very ineffective

And if you are on a fight with a d/d ele and a hgh engi spamming grenades from far… who do you try to dodge most? Honestly even double necros can’t dish out condis that well.

Deniara Devious.3948:

My pvp experience is weak, but with hundreds of hours of WvWvW fights, mostly solo roaming, I have of course fought against numerous engineers as an engineer. I agree that hitting a stationary target with the grenade kit is easy. But if you both you and the enemy are moving, it actually takes a lot of skill to land to grenades. I find it very easy to dodge the enemy grenades if I just move in a non-straight line, almost nothing hits me from distance.

You suggestion to steel-packed powder is actually gonna nerf that trait to ground and also hurt the bomb kit users: If it would have 5-8 s internal cooldown (like you suggested), it would allow engineers to put just one stack of vulnerability as the vulnerability from that trait lasts 5 seconds. One stack of vulnerability is very little, consider that many other skills and traits pack a lot of vulnerability:
e.g. brutal shot (warrior rifle #4) 8 stacks of vulnerability.
hunter’s shot (ranger longbow #3) 10 stacks of vulnerability
ice spike (elementalist staff #2) 5 stacks of vulnerability
And the vulnerability from these lasts from 8-12 seconds.
Not to mention autoattacks, which stack vulnerability e.g.
rending claws (necro axe #1), giving 2 stacks of vulnerability on a fast auto attack
greatsword swing & slice (warrior greatsword #1)
and so on…
See:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vulnerability

So for other professions it is okay to stack lots of vulnerability without the need for any trait. Yet you want that engineers can get just 1 stack of vulnerability which lasts 5 seconds on 5-8 second cooldown.

Stop balancing the game based on a game mode, where you need to be inside a circle to cap a point (spvp/tpvp). Has anybody been hearing complaints like oh, the engineers are too powerful in pve or in WvWvW? Or that grenade kit should be nerfed as it does more damage that 100 blades? Yet Arenanet has nerfed engineer with every single monthly update and the skill “balance” changes related to the engineer have affected WvWvW and pve in negative way. E.g. last update gave major or minor buffs to other professions, while engineers got: nerfed survivability traits, destroyed elixir S and 50% reduction to confusion damage in WvWvW. I actually think the latter was good. Confusion was too powerful in WvWvW and it should be kept that way. Same damage in WvWvW as in pvp.

For your information: I don’t play HGH engineer. I know for sure Anet is going to destroy that build as well, as it did with 100 nades (they just didn’t tone down the damage from kit refinement, they removed it completely… LOL, imagine 50% dmg nerf to backstab, 100blades, killshot, eviscerate… need I go on).

throwing grenades has never been difficult, i’ve never had an issue predicting where the enemy will move, i know every class thinks that they’re the hardest to play, or the weakest or whatever, but grenades just aren’t difficult to throw at all, seriously

i notice you’ve conveniently left out other traits and skills that engineers have that apply vuln

analyze – 10 stacks of vuln, lasts for 8 secs
precise sights – 50% chance on crit to apply 1 stack of vuln for 3 secs
sitting duck – applies 5 stacks of vuln on immob for 8 secs
etc

do you know why those 3 abilities aren’t op? do you know why the abilities you listed from other classes aren’t op?

sure you can keep up vuln with the necro axe… if you do nothing but auto attack… the point is, you can’t constantly maintain vuln on your target with any of those abilities, with steel packed powder you can, it doesn’t matter if the vuln gets cleansed, as it can easily be applied again

here’s my proposition on steel packed powder, since it is a gm trait, it should apply 3 stacks of vuln for 5 seconds on a 5 second cd, that’s 9 stacks with grenadier, assuming all 3 grenades hit

wvw’s balance is nonexistent, it just doesn’t exist at all, but that’s an entirely different conversation

backstab and killshot (maybe eviscerate too? i don’t play a warrior) are single target abilities, one of which is a class ability (i mean seriously the type of skill is called burst), and the other has a positional requirement that requires you to be in melee range

100b has such an obvious animation and is very easy to avoid (not to mention it roots the warrior)

i’ve already stated that i don’t think it should be nerfed in pve, balance should be separate

I would prefer if they swapped range of grenades and the rifle. I want the rifle to have 1200 base range(and up to 1500 with trait).

And grenades 1000(1200 with trait).

HGH is so powerful with grenades for multiple reasons, which all add together.
They can use Rabid amulet for condition damage and critrate. This should leave them at low direct damage levels. But with HGH they can maintain 20 stacks of might, which will not only add 700 condition damage, but also 700 power.
Suddenly they don’t sit on 2100 attack power, but 2800, which is close the level most powerbuild are, which is ~3000 without might.
With their critrate of 35%, which will then get buffed to 55% by Elixir B fury they suddenly become a quite good direct damage dealer aswell.
But it doesn’t stop here. They also add alot of vul stacks, which not only cover their damaging conditions, but it will also add another 20%+ damage to their direct attacks.

So, while they are wearing rabid, they are dealing alot of direct damage, and even more condition damage thanks to their mightstacking abilities.

hamsteak.1368:

throwing grenades has never been difficult, i’ve never had an issue predicting where the enemy will move, i know every class thinks that they’re the hardest to play, or the weakest or whatever, but grenades just aren’t difficult to throw at all, seriously

i notice you’ve conveniently left out other traits and skills that engineers have that apply vuln

analyze – 10 stacks of vuln, lasts for 8 secs
precise sights – 50% chance on crit to apply 1 stack of vuln for 3 secs
sitting duck – applies 5 stacks of vuln on immob for 8 secs
etc

do you know why those 3 abilities aren’t op? do you know why the abilities you listed from other classes aren’t op?

sure you can keep up vuln with the necro axe… if you do nothing but auto attack… the point is, you can’t constantly maintain vuln on your target with any of those abilities, with steel packed powder you can, it doesn’t matter if the vuln gets cleansed, as it can easily be applied again

here’s my proposition on steel packed powder, since it is a gm trait, it should apply 3 stacks of vuln for 5 seconds on a 5 second cd, that’s 9 stacks with grenadier, assuming all 3 grenades hit

---

wvw’s balance is nonexistent, it just doesn’t exist at all, but that’s an entirely different conversation

backstab and killshot (maybe eviscerate too? i don’t play a warrior) are single target abilities, one of which is a class ability

Steel-packed powders is good, but not overpowered, since it is a grandmaster level trait.

You are now comparing adept level traits (10 trait points) points with a grandmaster trait (25 points). So of course the grandmaster trait should be stronger. With your suggestion the grandmaster trait could pack in max 9 stacks of vulnerability assuming all those 3 grenades would hit the same target. But if e.g. just one hits, then it is mere 3 stacks. You do realize that ranger’s longbow’s hunter’s shot puts 10 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds at 1500 range (using eagle eye trait). So in other words you want a grandmaster trait to be weaker than ranger’s long bow. Or let’s compare with elementalist’s water staff #2: Ice Spike. It has mere 4 second cool down, 240 radius. Most grenades have 120 radius. plus blasting staff trait makes Ice Spike 360 radius and puts on 5 stacks of vulnerability which last 10 seconds. I know very well that staff ele’s are probably a joke in 1-vs-1, but I can assure they are common in WvWvW.

Please show me how your are gonna land all the 3 grenades at the same mobile target from long distance, let’s say >1200 range. In fact I would happy to show me how you can land the grenades at me from >1200 since it is so “easy”. Grenades are most effective at rather short range (<600). Then you get the damage multiplier + stacks of conditions on your enemies, but from far they are weaker than e.g. ranger’s 1500 range attacks. This synergizes very well with engineer’s pistol, which also packs a lot of conditions at similar range. Thus is the combination of conditions from grenades, pistol, traits and carefully selected equipment (e.g. superior sigil of battle). And pretty much turning the engineer into a one-trick pony, just like “versatile” profession should be.

I think it was perfectly valid for me to compare single target burst skills vs. 100 nades spike. In order to get the full effect from the old 100nades burst (which doesn’t exist anymore), you needed to immobilize the foe and be inside enemy character model. Are you telling that realistically it would one-shotting multiple targets? We can then as well speculate of a kill shot (1500 range) + crack shot trait one-shotting up to 5 targets as same time (crack shot trait causes rifle attacks to pierce). But we both know they are not very realistic scenarios.

wait im confused.

so in pvp

if an engie buffs up, stands around without any challenge, and is allowed to just throw grenades at people … she can kill them?

wow .. that’s like .. WAY OP.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Steel-packed powders is good, but not overpowered, since it is a grandmaster level trait.

You are now comparing adept level traits (10 trait points) points with a grandmaster trait (25 points). So of course the grandmaster trait should be stronger. With your suggestion the grandmaster trait could pack in max 9 stacks of vulnerability assuming all those 3 grenades would hit the same target. But if e.g. just one hits, then it is mere 3 stacks. You do realize that ranger’s longbow’s hunter’s shot puts 10 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds at 1500 range (using eagle eye trait). So in other words you want a grandmaster trait to be weaker than ranger’s long bow. Or let’s compare with elementalist’s water staff #2: Ice Spike. It has mere 4 second cool down, 240 radius. Most grenades have 120 radius. plus blasting staff trait makes Ice Spike 360 radius and puts on 5 stacks of vulnerability which last 10 seconds. I know very well that staff ele’s are probably a joke in 1-vs-1, but I can assure they are common in WvWvW.

Please show me how your are gonna land all the 3 grenades at the same mobile target from long distance, let’s say >1200 range. In fact I would happy to show me how you can land the grenades at me from >1200 since it is so “easy”. Grenades are most effective at rather short range (<600). Then you get the damage multiplier + stacks of conditions on your enemies, but from far they are weaker than e.g. ranger’s 1500 range attacks. This synergizes very well with engineer’s pistol, which also packs a lot of conditions at similar range. Thus is the combination of conditions from grenades, pistol and traits. And pretty much turning the engineer into a one-trick pony, just like “versatile” profession should be.

I think it was perfectly valid for me to compare single target burst skills vs. 100 nades spike. In order to get the full effect from the old 100nades burst (which doesn’t exist anymore), you needed to immobilize the foe and be inside enemy character model. Are you telling that realistically it would one-shotting multiple targets? We can then as well speculate of a kill shot (1500 range) + crack shot trait one-shotting up to 5 targets as same time (crack shot trait causes rifle attacks to pierce). But we both know they are not very realistic scenarios.

so that we can both get on with our lives i suggest we just agree to disagree

yes, just as you said: “But if e.g. just one hits, then it is mere 3 stacks.” the way the trait currently works if one hits then it’s 1 stack, the change i proposed is actually better, is it not?

yes, i have no problem with a grandmaster trait that passively allows you stack vuln just by attacking being weaker compared to a skill with a cd (it may be a grandmaster trait but it’s still a minor trait)

yes, i believe grenades are easy to land, and no, i would recommend using them from such a far range, but then again it wouldn’t make sense to be able to aoe with ease from 1500, would it?

when did i ever mention something one-shotting multiple targets? i never even mentioned 100 nades

Trade the Bombs 2-5 power dmg with the nades 2-5 dmg(the dmg with 3 nades) and add a unblockable bombs trait, doooeeeet

Here is my suggestion how to balance the HGH build. Bear in mind I was actually thinking how to do the balancing so that it wouldn’t destroy other engineer builds (Anet has track record of “balancing” stuff so that it actually affects the wrong things):

1. Keep the overall (direct + condition) damage the grenade kit as it is, but convert some of the damage multipliers related to condition damage into direct damage.
- engineers need a high damage weapon of choice (e.g. elixir gun is very low damage kit)
- after grenade kit would do more direct damage, but less condition damage it would synergize less with condition build and + condition damage duration (note that explosives trait line increases condition duration)
2. Reduce the duration of might stacks from HGH e.g. to 10-15 seconds
- just one stack of might per elixir is way way too low for a grandmaster trait (note most elixirs have very long cooldowns)
- Might duration multiplied as well because HGH trait line gives +30% boon duration. Combine that with runes and you can easily get +50% boon duration. E.g. previously 20 s duration*1.5 = 30 s duration. Now e.g. 10 s*1.5 = 15 second duration. Note that 15 second duration of might is little.

I think problem solved! HGH, grenades, not engineer pistol shouldn’t be nerfed to ground as bunkers need a counter.

I am afraid Arenenat will implement this differently and actually destroy other engineer builds as well and make it a no-go option in pve or WvWvW.

PS. And instead of just once again swinging the nerf bat at engineers, please consider the following:
1. Turret hit boxes are ridiculously large and hit point pool is way too small to make the viable in many dungeon, boss match settings or WvWvW. They literally get destroyed in 1 second or less. Currently only the healing turret makes sense (and even then you overcharge / explode it immediately). This should be a non-pvp change: increase the turret health to same level as ranger pets
2. Engineer underwater should be revisited: Currently grenade kit is the only viable choice underwater and if it gets nerfed, what engineers are supposed to use underwater? Harpoon gun is so slow attacking, it must be a bad joke. Short fuse trait is broken underwater. 4xLyssa runes don’t trigger the effect underwater. Elixir gun #5 blows its super elixir to max range. Logically it should create the super elixir around the engineer.

I think engi grenades are fine where they are, tbh.

I had a HGH nade engi talking smack to me in a game yesterday, because I wasn’t pro enough to be at the top of the points or whatever roll eyes. I then proceeded to destroy him in a 1v1 on side points, twice.. he couldn’t get me under 50% HP. ( 3 or 4 other times as well, but they were interrupted)

I play a rifle engi.

Those FoTM builds will always come and go, though… So it doesn’t really matter.

Earthmonkey.4326:

I think engi grenades are fine where they are, tbh.

I had a HGH nade engi talking smack to me in a game yesterday, because I wasn’t pro enough to be at the top of the points or whatever roll eyes. I then proceeded to destroy him in a 1v1 on side points, twice.. he couldn’t get me under 50% HP. ( 3 or 4 other times as well, but they were interrupted)

I play a rifle engi.

Those FoTM builds will always come and go, though… So it doesn’t really matter.

lol off topic but same thing happened to me back when 100 nades was fotm. I was playing around with an sd build and some engie starts getting all mad when I kill him, calling me a noob and not a real engie for not using 100 nades like he was. I was like….okay… lol silly asura