Guild Wars 2

So acrobatics traits got reworked into the new elite spec and it was imbalanced before.. does that mean the new spec has counterplay? Probably not. I would like to be first to welcome back the Dodge-spam 33333333333 thieves back with a more OP spec.

I was wondering when these kinds of threads were going to start….

Would you rather thieves reroll and kill you with your favorite profession instead? Because if the answer is yes, please continue complaining.

It’s a bit too early to complain.

It’s all in beta, every other specs are in beta, there will be a bwe2 and probably a bwe3.

Numbers and other stuff will change.

The old s/D was pretty cancerous, noone wants a a full evade immortal beast, we need to wait and test stuff, not only for dd but for other profs too.

Give Reaper Evade-Hate. The time has come!

FIRST thing I am doing next BWE is testing out the good old shortbow-shortbow max-evade build.

This isn’t complaining… it’s a question to a design choice: Why improve dodging on an elite spec? Is there going to be counterplay?

Anet seems to only consider how fun a class is to play, and not how fun it is to play against it seems…

SnowCow.5914:

Anet seems to only consider how fun a class is to play, and not how fun it is to play against it seems…

Oh yeah? Let’s see:

A D/D Ele – thats the kitten I don’t like
A Cele Necro – thats the kitten I don’t like
A Burn Guard – thats the kitten I don’t like
A Rampage Warrior – thats the kitten I don’t like
A SA Thief – thats the kitten I don’t like
A PU Mesmer – thats the kitten I don’t like
A Soldier Eng – thats the kitten I don’t like
A LB Ranger – thats the kitten I don’t like

yet I have to play against these comps constantly. Some people’s argumentation is just /facepalm

S/D thief is a spec that – unlike most of the aforementioned builds – actually takes skill to play on a competitive level.

the greatest weakness is hard CC because thiefs have no stabi!
And if you ever have played thief class and know when you can burst after evade, there no problem of counterplay.
And conditions, not every thief will run condi clear in stealth or condiclear with trickery skills or condiclear with evade….
sometimes ppl think a thief can use all traitlines and traits at same time ….yep

How to counter a thieves with high evade? Just hit them kittence between evades. Thieves aren’t magically getting a higher health pool, access to protection, or a viable build that uses an amulet with toughness with this change.

Besides, would you rather fight someone who mindlessly face tanks your hits or someone that has to actively dodge them to survive?

Love the evade spam…this is bad design so it will certainly be what will happen.

manysongsgw.2931:

So acrobatics traits got reworked into the new elite spec and it was imbalanced before.. does that mean the new spec has counterplay? Probably not. I would like to be first to welcome back the Dodge-spam 33333333333 thieves back with a more OP spec.

tldr: I have no idea if the spec will OP but I want to start the complaining now while pretending I am asking a valid question.

style.6173:

manysongsgw.2931:

So acrobatics traits got reworked into the new elite spec and it was imbalanced before.. does that mean the new spec has counterplay? Probably not. I would like to be first to welcome back the Dodge-spam 33333333333 thieves back with a more OP spec.

tldr: I have no idea if the spec will OP but I want to start the complaining now while pretending I am asking a valid question.

Again, not complaining. It’s sarcasm towards bad design imo. Dodging makes you invulnerable, so why improve it unless there is counterplay?

For those who say “just CC after the dodge”, you seem to forget that spamming dodges will also dodge the CC or use a stunbreak and wait for CDs. You don’t need stability when you can just dodge 4 times in a row and then reset.

Some people may be referencing S/D #3 where there is a minor frame in which they’re vulnerable, but that is negligible for a good thief or thieves with a stunbreak. I’m just talking about the dodge mechanic in general and improving it with giving more endurance or traits like “Feline Grace”.

Daredevil counterplay?

Probably some Marvel evil guy….

The Arrow counters Daredevil.

This is just plain sad.

Ladies and gentlemen of the gw2 forum. this is why every single ninja/thief/acro/ reaction based profession in every single online game get’s nerfed into oblivion.
let the idiocy start again.

I’m assuming your refering to 2/0/0/6/6/ s/d thief the one that could durge for days..
that spec was a joke. all it took to beat was a tiny fragment of knowledge about thief mechanics to kill. yet that was asking for to much right?

If your going to start up the anti thief cult again at least wait till they post the numbers on this upcoming spec…

dodge and interrupts, it’s not like old acrobat you just gain more dodge for dodging
you gain more dodge using pulsing heal, interrupting, stealing and stuff.

Is it even possible to cripple, chill or immob a daredevil?

Wilson Fisk OP.

Weakness. Yeah, it’s a thing.

BlackBeard.2873:

FIRST thing I am doing next BWE is testing out the good old shortbow-shortbow max-evade build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RwKNkwcEZo

Thank you for this. This video demonstrates how inconsistent devs are with their balance philosophy. For over a year now they have been nerfing to prevent dodge spamming. Now we have a totally unoriginal elite spec built around the premise of dodge spamming. I’m sorry it’s not dodge spamming it’s the ability to “press the fight forward to the end.”

And yes this has not been beta tested yet, but the entire spec is built around the premise of dodging more and more effectively.

I thought Mesmer can do a lot of things?

Same way you counter stealth, L2P noobs and hit fine air!!

Ok that’s a joke so don’t take it seriously. We’ll have to wait and see, I hope it doesn’t end up like SD used to be which was evade spam. Certainly too early to start crying OP and narf at all these stuff.

TLDR: Become an Indian and join the waitansee tribe.

Hard CC counter my kitten . They got a 10 second cooldown stunbreak that blocks and knocks down targets kitten .

Meanwhile ranger and necromancer stunbreaks are stil 45-60+ second cd’s.

Zenith.7301:

Hard CC counter my kitten . They got a 10 second cooldown stunbreak that blocks and knocks down targets kitten .

Meanwhile ranger and necromancer stunbreaks are stil 45-60+ second cd’s.

Everyone’s stun breaks have those CDs.

From the top of my head? Guard ring and Slick shoes are the most reliable ones I suppose. But ofc I don’t think any good Thief will go in a fight without shadow-step up in a real 5v5. That’s like asking for a death wish.

Weakness is a counter to dodges. However daredevil has many ways to gain endurance. I think weakness should also reduce endurance gain from their new healing skill for example.

I feel they found an interesting way to make a class have sustain, without giving them tons of heal and reliance on healing power.

Just like other sustainy classes though, the counter is probably spiked dmg with good CC.

Cuz this isn’t really a thing in random groups, I’m looking forward to all the whiney posts. ^^

yolo swaggins.2570:

Zenith.7301:

Hard CC counter my kitten . They got a 10 second cooldown stunbreak that blocks and knocks down targets kitten .

Meanwhile ranger and necromancer stunbreaks are stil 45-60+ second cd’s.

Everyone’s stun breaks have those CDs.

ACtually is going to be a 15s cd skill, while berserker have a 10s cd stunbreak

What counters a bunker spec?

Well-time burst. If they play staff they will be most vulnerable when trying to attack you. Its the same with any weapon set they use really. If they go full defensive mode I imagine it would be a bit hard to get them, but 1v1 on point should make for a fun fight.

persistet aoe, stuns, channeled skills, blinds, blocks, body blocks (pet, clones and co.), weakness…. just to name few

Cynz.9437:

persistet aoe, stuns, channeled skills, blinds, blocks, body blocks (pet, clones and co.), weakness…. just to name few

No use in telling them, they still believe S/D was even OP back then when it actually took skill compared to faceroll ©Ele, reigning over PvP for over a year now.

FrownyClown.8402:

Well-time burst. If they play staff they will be most vulnerable when trying to attack you. Its the same with any weapon set they use really. If they go full defensive mode I imagine it would be a bit hard to get them, but 1v1 on point should make for a fun fight.

Staff will be trash. S/D and D/P will be the problem…

Gabriell.4856:

FrownyClown.8402:

Well-time burst. If they play staff they will be most vulnerable when trying to attack you. Its the same with any weapon set they use really. If they go full defensive mode I imagine it would be a bit hard to get them, but 1v1 on point should make for a fun fight.

Staff will be trash. S/D and D/P will be the problem…

D/P wont be a problem at all, it has to drop Shadow Arts or Deadly Arts to use Daredevil as trickery cant be missed..

If they drop SA; bye bye D/P in teamfights due random condis. Because as D/P, u cant dodge and damage at the same time.

If they drop DA; bye bye D/P in support due low pressure and Improvisation.

S/D wont be a problem either since Flanking Strike got a hard hit. If you still struggle vs an S/D, despite the extra dodges, I have bad news for you.

It means ppl will have to l2p again vs thieves.

Thieves were already in a small spot, cornered and bullied by faceroll random condis in Conquest and 1v1’s.

Let us breathe for once.

I don’t want easy counterplay to daredevil….this is my last chance to keep my friend in game ^^, he has always been a s/d enthusiast and now he has a reason to log in more than once every 3-4 days!

yolo swaggins.2570:

Zenith.7301:

Hard CC counter my kitten . They got a 10 second cooldown stunbreak that blocks and knocks down targets kitten .

Meanwhile ranger and necromancer stunbreaks are stil 45-60+ second cd’s.

Everyone’s stun breaks have those CDs.

Yeah right lol.

Mesmer blink is 30 seconds, decoy is 32 sec cd. Stand Your ground is 24-30 sec cd. Shake it Off is 25 sec cd. Infiltrator’s Signet 30 sec cd. Ele’s air signet is 25 sec cd but most don’t use it and it’s not like ele suffers much for it.

Ranger and Necromancer have the worst stun breaks in the game. And quite frankly that doesn’t excuse a 10-15 sec cd stunbreak on a class with built in evades, teleports, and three built in dodges.

The literally took the least fun thing in the game and made it a elite specialisation. They are trolling everyone at this point.

Thieves had to get more sustain from somewhere so it was either evades or stealth. If they had mesmer-like stealth you’d all whine just as hard. Such babies.

@Lordrosicky evades are a defining trait of gw2, how are they the least fun thing?

Counter: Grab > Downthrow > side Arial > timed smash on edge

In all seriousness, DD does not have the passive endurance regen that acrobatics had. The weapon dodges have frames where you’re locked in the animation, but vulnerable. I would suggest using your short cast time skills once you start to see a dodge because a half second cast skill used in reaction to a weapon evade will usually land after the evade frames are over. Thieves that actually deal damage will be squishy enough that your autoattacks should be enough to force dodges.

Counter : wait till DD uses vault. hit him with immobilize, watch him curse the immobilize glitch before dieing.

Spurrlock.3219:

Thieves had to get more sustain from somewhere so it was either evades or stealth. If they had mesmer-like stealth you’d all whine just as hard. Such babies.

@Lordrosicky evades are a defining trait of gw2, how are they the least fun thing?

Or, they could just give stealth and their “evade” 50% baseline damage reduction instead, instead of complete damage avoidance while being defensive.

There are plenty of ways to buff thief sustain without adding more immunity frames to them. Give them more healing sources.

And you honestly can’t ask for warrior-like sustain without nerfing spike and mobility.

I have zero sympathy for people who cry “evade spam”. If a thief is dodging all your key skills and taking minimal damage while still killing you, that isn’t evade spam, you got outplayed hard. Maybe it’ll teach people not to just mindlessly chain skills together and expect it to work. D/D eles, hammer warriors, well necros, rifle engis and pretty much any build that requires CC/immob to reliably land their burst are the biggest offenders.

“Oh you dodged my opener? Guess I better continue with my burst anyway even though you’re now out of range, not stunned or immobilized, and are likely expecting me to do exactly that.” Anyone who has ever actually played S/D “evade spam” thief, knows that just chaining all your evades together is a great way to insure you either do no damage, or run out of initiative and endurance in the middle of a fight and basically disable your damage mitigation for the next 10 seconds.

Zenith.7301:

Spurrlock.3219:

Thieves had to get more sustain from somewhere so it was either evades or stealth. If they had mesmer-like stealth you’d all whine just as hard. Such babies.

@Lordrosicky evades are a defining trait of gw2, how are they the least fun thing?

Or, they could just give stealth and their “evade” 50% baseline damage reduction instead, instead of complete damage avoidance while being defensive.

There are plenty of ways to buff thief sustain without adding more immunity frames to them. Give them more healing sources.

And you honestly can’t ask for warrior-like sustain without nerfing spike and mobility.

More healing sources means squat when you have a mid tier health pool, no blocks/protection and are designed to quickly move in and out of combat to provide assists. See how well Assassin’s Reward worked out. If you’re gonna nerf thief’s 2 main sources of damage mitigation, might as well change all immunity/invulnerability/blocks/dodges to only have 50% effectiveness. That’s how crazy that suggestions sounds.

Not to mention warriors aren’t exactly lacking in the spike/mobility department either, especially when compared to things like necro/guard. GS brings great mobility while still being a useful damage source, as opposed to thief’s SB which is pretty much only used for mobility and maybe downed cleaving.

Thanks Necortize for using your mind brain.

This thread is ridiculous. As soon as thieves can do something besides decap a point, the tears start flowing.

laquito.5269:

A LB Ranger – thats the kitten I don’t like

This is quite possibly the easiest to over come out of the builds you listed and tons you didn’t. They are not that good… hardly at all.

Maugetarr.6823:

Counter: Grab > Downthrow > side Arial > timed smash on edge

In all seriousness, DD does not have the passive endurance regen that acrobatics had. The weapon dodges have frames where you’re locked in the animation, but vulnerable. I would suggest using your short cast time skills once you start to see a dodge because a half second cast skill used in reaction to a weapon evade will usually land after the evade frames are over. Thieves that actually deal damage will be squishy enough that your autoattacks should be enough to force dodges.

I play Ganon sir, I don’t use grab unless it is out of shield! >.>