Guild Wars 2

First off, thank you for the buffs to core guard in this patch. It is a step in the right direction. But it’s not enough.

I believe core guard can be improved without buffing DH. The way to do this is to focus on traitlines and weapons that DH does not use and will not use because it would have to sacrifice essential traitlines such as valor and virtues to get it, or lose an already powerful weapon such as sword shield or longbow. I will furthermore try and place some of the weapon improvements in traits to further limit the benefit to dh.

Zeal:

Zealot’s Speed: Change the symbol of wrath it uses to the one on the gs and have its cooldown be affected by gs trait.

Zealous Scepter: Remain as is but add 20% cooldown reduction for scepter.

Symbolic Exposure: Currently this is a really weak trait. One of the main issues with symbols is keeping people in them. I suggest this does cripple instead of vuln.

Binding Jeopardy: Delete this trait. Instead move glacial heart from virtues to this spot. Rename Glacial Smoke, add 3 sec blind to the effect. Replace glacial heart in virtues with virtuous protection, boons you apply to allies reduce damage by 1%.

Zealous Blade: Keep the 5% damage buff and cooldown reduction. Remove the heal on attack. Cause whirling wrath to lose it’s movement penalty or drastically reduce it. Whirling Wrath heals the guard for around 300 health with each hit, but cap the num of heals at 7. This would allow whirling wrath to be a more reliable attack that cant just be walked out of. It would also buff core guard sustain which is needed. Wouldn’t buff DH because they don’t take gs and even if they did they would have to give up virtues or valor to get it.

Kindled Zeal: Dumb trait. Condi trait in power line. If you are running condi you take radiance and don’t have room for zeal anyway. Change to Zealot’s Defense. 10% less damage taken while in symbols. Gives trait option for those not running gs or hammer.

Symbolic Power: Weak trait. 10% damage buff only on a certain type of skill, which does damage over time and can be walked out of. Burning also out of place in a power trait line. Remove burning. Keep 10% buff. Add one sec of quickness on symbol creation.

Symbolic Avenger: 10% damage buff is good. 10% situational damage buff is meh. People immediately leave symbols. I suggest keep current buff but also add a 1.5 sec immob on symbols when in melee range with a 15 sec icd to help keep people in symbols.

Shattered Aegis: Keep current effect. Add 3 sec aegis on symbol creation. 10 sec icd. Trades the utility and potential damage of Symbolic Avenger for defense and immediate damage.

Radiance

Healer’s Retribution: Keep current effect. Add a small heal to retaliation.

Perfect Inscriptions: Keep current effects. Light Aura now blinds attacker on a 2 sec icd.

Greatsword

The changes we got recently are a huge step in the right direction. However more needs to be added. Currently this weapon is severely lacking in sustain as well as reliability, with a few lack luster skills.

Auto Chain: Vuln on first, might on second, short cripple on third.

Whirling Wrath: Remove the projectiles. Place half of projectiles damage into the base 7 attacks. Fix bug where only 12 hits are done instead of 14 when using a character besides human male.

Leap of Faith: GS currently lack sustain. Add an evade frame. Perhaps remove blind to compensate.

Symbol of Wrath: Decrease the duration to 3 sec. Keep the damage the same. Pulses 2 stacks of might with a 5 sec duration instead of retaliation.

Binding Blade: Improve the travel speed and reliability of the projectiles. Make the tick damage scale off of power instead of condi.

Hammer

Auto Chain: Reduce the cast time of the third chain skill.

Mighty Blow: Slightly increase damage.

Zealot’s Embrace: No change.

Banish: Increase number of targets to 3.

Ring of Warding: Allies within ring take 33% less damage.

Virtues F1 to F3

The active affects of Core Guards virtues are much weaker than DH. To compensate the passives should be stronger.

Virtue of Justice: Attacks to trigger from 5 to 4.

Virtue of Resolve: Improve the passive healing.

Virtue of Courage: Aegis refresh down from 40 sec to 30 sec. When traited in virtues down to 20 sec. And in pvp only, 10% reduced damage as an added passive to help up sustain.

Conclusion

Let me know what you guys think. My goal was to increase the viability of core guard without buffing DH. Do you think these changes would accomplish that? The main issue is the survivability of core guard. That was my central focus. However I did add some changes to increase the damage to keep up with the crazy damage of DH, as well as some changes to skills to make them more reliable. Looking forward to hearing from you all! I would especially love an Anet Dev to tell me what they think.

I don’t call for nerf, but the GM trait that all DH used to get some sustain versus condies should be available for guard. (switch that GM trait into a core line with a core gm trait into the DH line)

Virtues are not balanced, it’s real. But that GM trait is the bread and butter of DH survivability.

It’s what make the difference between the pure medi guard dps and the new DH medi guard dps.

Changing weapon that are common to DH and to Guard will not help because… you know, DH can use them.

really should be in the guardian forum tbh.

still these seem like some sensible changes. staff could use a buff too i feel, would be nice for two-handed weapons to be in vogue again.

Ya they can but longbow is still better than gs unless it is traited and to trait them u have to give up a traitline dh uses.

so thats why i chose weapons that arent meta for dh, because for dh to gain them they have to give something up

choovanski.5462:

really should be in the guardian forum tbh.

still these seem like some sensible changes. staff could use a buff too i feel, would be nice for two-handed weapons to be in vogue again.

Ya i don’t know enough about bunker guard to be suggesting buffs for it. I put this in pvp forums, because I made these changes because of pvp, and they are now able to seperate pvp and pve balance.

Edit: On second thought i think i would get more feedback in guard forums. If anet dev sees this pls move to guard forums.

Zuko.7132:

choovanski.5462:

really should be in the guardian forum tbh.

still these seem like some sensible changes. staff could use a buff too i feel, would be nice for two-handed weapons to be in vogue again.

Ya i don’t know enough about bunker guard to be suggesting buffs for it. I put this in pvp forums, because I made these changes because of pvp, and they are now able to seperate pvp and pve balance.

you’d get better feedback there. im honestly surprised noone has come into this thread to spew vitriol at you for using ‘buff’ & ‘guardian’ in the same sentence.

cant say much for bunk staff, i only ever played medi. still it’s something i think might be able to work w memders, but im unsure what the build is really lacking.

Listen to this man ANet

Pls tell me what you think guys. Looking for feedback. Especially you Anet Devs

You realize that if you make a core spec really strong, the elite specs will find a way to incorporate it. Either all core specs have to be the same level as elites, which leads to immense power increases, or – the easier and cleaner option – the elite specs have to be brought down to the core spec level. A third option is to take 1 or 2 of the more powerful core specs and make them elite specs. That mutual exclusion indirectly nerfs elite specs.

You specific changes favor brain-dead power creep – like what elite specs are – instead of fixing what’s actually wrong.

Using greatsword as an example:

• Whirling Wrath’s damage is fine with the buff and the speed reduction means you can’t spam it and win. The problem with Whirling Wrath is the miniscule projectile damage which destroys you on retaliation and other similar effects. Just remove that aspect.
• Leap of Faith is fine. The game doesn’t need more evade, especially on a profession which has good sustain. It already has a blind on the end.
• Symbol of Wrath is not fine. The first problem is that it’s static and really easy to avoid. The second problem is that retaliation is only situationally useful.
• Binding Blades is fine. The cast time allows for it to be dodged, so you have to be careful not to spam it.

The big problem with the Zeal trait line is that it focuses heavily on symbols, but the key trait to make symbols even partly viable in PvP, Writ of Persistence (particularly for the larger symbols), is in another line and overshadowed by better choices. To make zeal fully viable in PvP, you need a trait that makes symbols snare or root opponents or re-work the line to make symbol traits optional (major trait choices).

Exedore.6320:

You realize that if you make a core spec really strong, the elite specs will find a way to incorporate it. Either all core specs have to be the same level as elites, which leads to immense power increases, or – the easier and cleaner option – the elite specs have to be brought down to the core spec level. A third option is to take 1 or 2 of the more powerful core specs and make them elite specs. That mutual exclusion indirectly nerfs elite specs.

You specific changes favor brain-dead power creep – like what elite specs are – instead of fixing what’s actually wrong.

Using greatsword as an example:

• Whirling Wrath’s damage is fine with the buff and the speed reduction means you can’t spam it and win. The problem with Whirling Wrath is the miniscule projectile damage which destroys you on retaliation and other similar effects. Just remove that aspect.
• Leap of Faith is fine. The game doesn’t need more evade, especially on a profession which has good sustain. It already has a blind on the end.
• Symbol of Wrath is not fine. The first problem is that it’s static and really easy to avoid. The second problem is that retaliation is only situationally useful.
• Binding Blades is fine. The cast time allows for it to be dodged, so you have to be careful not to spam it.

The big problem with the Zeal trait line is that it focuses heavily on symbols, but the key trait to make symbols even partly viable in PvP, Writ of Persistence (particularly for the larger symbols), is in another line and overshadowed by better choices. To make zeal fully viable in PvP, you need a trait that makes symbols snare or root opponents or re-work the line to make symbol traits optional (major trait choices).

I did nothing to buff the actual damage of whirling wrath. I agree that damage is fine, however it is much too dificult to land it compared to other comparable skills. Furthermore the cast time of binding blades isn’t the main issue. It’s the way the projectiles travel. They are too slow and unreliable. Leap of faith needs an evade because core guard sustain isnt enough against elite specs. This would help. Dh wouldn’t use gs without zeal traits, because longbow is better for dh. Also symbol of wrath is a symbol. It has to be static by it’s nature. But I agree upon a second look it could use some buffs. Perhaps reduce the symbol duration to 3 sec but keep the same damage. Make it useable while moving, and grant 2 stacks of 7 sec might each sec for 6 total.

U have to remember that buffing core skills and traits that are not used by the elite specialization will not buff it. And to gain these buffs, dh would have to give up something it currently has. So it would not buff existing dh, and if dh used it they would lose some of the advantages they currently have, mainly sustain from virtues and valor if they take zeal. And if they take one of the buffed weapons they lose longbow, massive ranged damage with cc, or sword shield, which they need for mobility, cc, and defense. I’m also fine with making some of the weapon buffs trait dependent so dh can’t benefit at all.

Furthermore with the changes to mechanics with elite specs, they are inherently stronger as they gain more or improved skills over the existing core builds. Unless they remove the buffs to profession mechanics, it is impossible to nerf elite specs down to core level. DH virtues are much stronger than core guard virtues. As such unless, anet guts DH and all the other elite specs by removing the new mechanics they sold them on, which they have shown no intention of doing, the only way to balance core specs is to buff them in ways which do not help the elite specialization builds.

Yes it is power creep. I’m not denying it. But since elite specs are powercreeped by their very nature, the new mechanics they give, they can’t be brought down to core spec level without a total redesign. Anet isn’t going to do that. Core specs need power creep to compete. It just has to be done in a way that the elite specs won’t benefit from it. I believe my changes do that.

Also core guard does not have enough sustain to defend against the new elite specs. Hence why I’m adding all these buffs. My goal is to do it in a way that dh doesn’t benefit, without sacrificing existing strengths. I believe these changes do that.

You can’t fix power creep with more power creep. Just because DH doesn’t use it now doesn’t mean it won’t use it once it’s buffed.

Using political memes like that is going to stop my attention instantly. I presume that at least some ANET staff may feel the same.

Ithilwen.1529:

Using political memes like that is going to stop my attention instantly. I presume that at least some ANET staff may feel the same.

Funny cause before u opened the post, the only thing u saw was the political meme and you clicked on it. Looks like it drew ur attention. I renamed the title in this way specifically to make more people click on it and read the contents. And I have had drastic increased viewings since doing so. That’s all I care about. The title has nothing to do with my political views, nor should they matter in a videogame.

Exedore.6320:

You can’t fix power creep with more power creep. Just because DH doesn’t use it now doesn’t mean it won’t use it once it’s buffed.

Perhaps they would use it for the extra damage, but they would have to give up something they already have to gain it. They would have to give up sustain from virtues to gain it. Would be more susceptible to cc and condi. Also to really benefit from the zeal traitline they would have to take something other than longbow. So they would lose the ranged damage. Furthermore because of the lack of stab and condi clear from losing virtues they might need to compensate by dropping a trap for another stunbreak and condi clear. Overall I don’t think the tradeoff is worth it for dh.

Which brings us back to: damage is not the problem in PvP – it’s utility.

If you increase the damage on Zeal, it’s still not worth it. In order to compete, it needs utility like snares, CC, survival, etc. And if it gets that strong, DH’s will swap Valor for it.

Yes, zeal needs work, but dragonhunter needs toned down at the same time.

I added utility in the zeal line such as cripple on symbols and an immob when traited, reduced cooldowns on weapons so their skills that offer utility are up more often, survivivability buffs with gs heal and hammer blind and aegis on symbol when traited. These help makes zeal better. However while these changes buff zeals utility, it does not do it to such a degree that it can replace valor. So DH can’t swap valor for it. Therefore only core guard can really take advantage as it has a free traitline that is not taken up by DH elite specialization.

DH as well as other elite specs could all use some tuning down. I don’t deny that. But this buff would only help core guard, as it would be suboptimal for dh to give up one of it’s current traitlines to take zeal.