Guild Wars 2

Daecollo.9578:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Thanks for the feedback. We intend to watch things in the meta and make small adjustments accordingly for ALL classes, including the Necro.

Yes, that is why I quit the game for RIFT mostly. Warriors are not garbage there.

Haha lol Rift pvp. That was even more unbalanced than Age of Conan…

Kuull.3147:

Just to say, I did NOT read the entire thread…

But just reading the first line of the OP, has made me make this post. “They’ve just became viable” – viable as in kittening overpowered? Yup sure, viable indeed for the person playing one. The amount of damage the conditions is doing at the moment is simply kittened. Even with my Condi remove build I lost a massive amount of health in mere seconds.

That does not mean it’s balanced, it’s completely the other way around. And I play an Elementalist, with somewhat moderate amounts (as some may know) of abilities to remove conditions.

You’re fighting a glass cannon…

Of course you’re going to lose chunks of health. If you can just hit a button and erase 7+ cooldowns worth of conditions before they do any damage, how is a glass cannon necro going to kill you?

Condi removal is your toughness against conditions. It’s not supposed to make you immune, it’s supposed to lower the damage you take as you stack more. How much health do you lose in mere seconds when a 30 30 0 0 10 D/D thief spikes you? You’ll take more damage in that half second than you will in 6+ of being caught in a necro fear chain.

Caffynated.5713:

Kuull.3147:

Just to say, I did NOT read the entire thread…

But just reading the first line of the OP, has made me make this post. “They’ve just became viable” – viable as in kittening overpowered? Yup sure, viable indeed for the person playing one. The amount of damage the conditions is doing at the moment is simply kittened. Even with my Condi remove build I lost a massive amount of health in mere seconds.

That does not mean it’s balanced, it’s completely the other way around. And I play an Elementalist, with somewhat moderate amounts (as some may know) of abilities to remove conditions.

You’re fighting a glass cannon…

Of course you’re going to lose chunks of health. If you can just hit a button and erase 7+ cooldowns worth of conditions before they do any damage, how is a glass cannon necro going to kill you?

Condi removal is your toughness against conditions. It’s not supposed to make you immune, it’s supposed to lower the damage you take as you stack more. How much health do you lose in mere seconds when a 30 30 0 0 10 D/D thief spikes you? You’ll take more damage in that half second than you will in 6+ of being caught in a necro fear chain.

Yes, but a thief chunking your health in 2 seconds is apparently more balanced than necromancers doing the same thing, but in 6 seconds instead.

Kravick.4906:

Sabre.1275:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Thanks for the feedback. We intend to watch things in the meta and make small adjustments accordingly for ALL classes, including the Necro.

Warriors dont need small changes. They need drastic changes: The class feels extremely unresponsive, slow, cumbersome. Its like I am playing underwater with an extremely poor connection when I play a warrior.

I dont think improving their traits alone or their “health” is going to be a good fix. Instead of tinkering with things that could make them overpowered in PVE, why not just speed up their animations, pre-cast time, and more so that they can actually do something in pvp besides telegraphing slow and unresponsive moves with a huge windup.

Even if you bring warriors to the level of other classes by improving their traits and abilities, they are still going to be awkward and frustrating to play as long as their slow animations, cast time, and weird mechanics (self rooting melee attacks) are left in the game. Warriors need an overhaul

When I push blink on my mesmer, i blink instantly. When I hit decoy, I vanish instantly. When hit throw bolas on my warrior, I wind up a throw and throw it half a second later, when I hit bulls charge I get ready to charge and then charge a half second later. This kind of discrepency in fluidity between the classes is unacceptable.

Now you know how necromancers feel. Everything we have has either a ridiculous after cast delay (enfeebling blood especially) or a long cast time.

Because spamming wells / marks, swapping sets, and spamming more instant cast is really really hard to faceroll with when a glass can walk into that and break from that alone. Necro isn’t even comparable to warrior in terms of “being bad” even pre-patch.

Can someone explain to me why people explain away the current necro meta as being a result of the fact that no one has ever played against a necro before?

Freecasting necros have been a team-fight ending force since khalifa and powerr started running power necros that would sit on ledges and bomb points, then shift into lich and timewarp or precast their sig of undeath for when allies would go down.

Players know what necros do if you leave them alone to corrupt boon and epi an entire team.

sry main necs,

but necro is totaly out of controll.
i just start playing again with next patch :P

buff was need, but not like this we have now

Ofcource necro needed a buff, but arena.net gave us complilty diffrent one – mb they one to keep this unbalance class (if you remember, necro was OP→UP→OP…what do you think will follow next?! xD)

I still get controlled into oblivion while on my Necro. The advantage is that now I can do damage while not controlled.

The necro nerf is inevitable. Just make sure that you nerf them where they are over performing at, which is Spvp. Nothing in that patch effected WvW very much, so be sure to leave WvW necros alone.

timidobserver.7925:

The necro nerf is inevitable. Just make sure that you nerf them where they are over performing at, which is Spvp. Nothing in that patch effected WvW very much, so be sure to leave WvW necros alone.

Thats going to be impossible, since WvW necros are running now (mostly) same build xD

terror was there for ages then burn comes and terror becomes OP ?

necro is fine out of spvp so pls no nerfs that will affect 2/3 of the game

Batlav: according to this posts, every skill of necro is OP!

What i learned from this forum past several months is – if U can’t deal with some class/build just go forum, open a tread and start yelling for nerf. “XXX is soooo OP nerf pliiiis”, “omg omg its out of control its stupid nerfff”, “XXX skill is op nerfff!!” and in most cases Devs listen to it and nerf particular class.
Now it’s happening with necro. More and more treads to nerf something about it – nerf/throw out Dhuumfire, nerf Terror (which hasn’t even changed lol but no1 noticed coz who played necro be4 y?), nerf Putrid Mark (srsly? its alrdy enrfed to not transfer all conditions as it did before), nerf Spec Wall… Nerf everything to the ground coz I can’t deal with it, and if I can’t it has to be OP coz I’m da best, rite? Now every necro skill is OP, why not?
Necro should be the main condimancer in this game, not engie.
Many ppl rolled necro to see how it works now so we see more necros, 2-4each game, but 50-70% of them will abandon necr and go back to other classes. 303010 is a glass. Focused by 2ppl it dies in seconds and U can’t stop them with 2 fears. But on temafights ppl don’t focuse necro, they let them stand somwhere up and bomb the whole teamfight with marks, then they say OMG NECRO SO OP, but every1 is to lazy to send ele or thief to kill that necro above, y better let him support his team, loose, and then Q_Q.

Changes to necro I’d sugest to tone down Q_Qer’s :
-Dhuumfire – Burn on crits every 12sec
-Remove fear from Spectral Wall, give it criple + 2/3 stacks of Torment instead
-Remove aditional fear duration from DS 3 fear
-Remove the effect of sigil of paralyzation affectin fear duration

Also give some access to regeneration n vigor on skills/traits.

And no, necro is not my main, Mesmer is and alwayse will be.

no michael there wasnt so many nerf threads before – you should scroll a bit before you write something like this

atm situation is just bad and its normal so many ppl are frustrated and rage about

Romek: it is no wounder that ppl are frustrated, because most of them are running sam old build – when necro was not part of tpvp scene.

Oh there was Romek example – Phant Mesmers, BM Rangers, Eles, S/D Thiefs..
Like emon sayin, ppl DON’T wana adapt, change build a bit to condi meta so they cry, i changed runes, utilites, sigil on mesmer and im completly fine. Ppl don’t like changes.

They r also frustrated coz class stacking is bad – it’s always like this – it was gr8/normal to have 2 eles pre rtl nerf. Now ppl like to have 2necros.
Necro isn’t a class U have to babysit with thief or mes anymore. They can go solo and kill something, def point 1v1. They r not a freefrag anymore, U need to use ur fingers and brain to kill it (obv if necro is good, coz 80% of “new” necros are simply trash).
Ppl are used to prepatch necro – when there is one somehow u simpky go and kill it with no much effort, but that changed and ppl can’t accept this and moan on forum.

The necromancer class should have a stability effect on Spectral Armor, it would be nice if it were 6 seconds just like the protection buff.

Changing the sigil that is effecting fear should be the fix. Leave the rest of the stuff the way it is because Dhuumfire just made hybrid builds a bit more viable.

As far as the warrior and ranger goes…I don’t know what to do with them because I’ve only played the Necro since start.

Axe damage is still LAWL because of it’s terribly slow hit rate on #1; do the math vs dagger if you don’t believe me… MH Dagger is a PITA because there are no AOE attacks for it and the range is 130…while I don’t have trouble pwning people w/ dagger it would be nice if Life Siphon was AOE just like Life Transfer; hitting everything, not just 5 targets.

Having those things would help a Necro fit in better with the classes that can fight 3+ people all at one time and live; we all know what classes those are.

In terms of damage, burning would have been enough to fullfill their collection of conditions they have access to. Also the problem with necro was his survivability and defense/stun-breakers in general. His damage before patch was allrdy fine.
But that’s happening when developers try to balance a class, without an idea of its state.

Oidmetala.8426:

sry main necs,

but necro is totaly out of controll.
i just start playing again with next patch :P

buff was need, but not like this we have now

I am sorry Oidmetala, you don’t get a vote, you haven’t been playing a Necro since the start of the game.

Your opinion is like that wet plastic bag that just happens to blow by you in the wind…worthless pollution.

Kravick.4906:

Flumek.9043:

And it should be toned down as a condi itself. Its meant as a bonus to power users, therefore its hould have bad scaling with cond dmg/even fixed amount ~400dps. And its TOO EASY and CONSTANT to apply.

What? Are you serious? Its on a 40 second cool down, applies one stack per second for a grand total of 3 stacks, and only if you stay within 600 range of the necromancer when activated. Big green lines jump out and attach themselves to you. The only possible way to make this indicator any more loud and obvious would be to have big red letters that are half the size of the screen start flashing in front of you saying, “DODGE NOW DODGE NOW DODGE NOW DODGE NOW DODGE NOW!”

The damage itself is also quite bad. It does 50% damage of a bleed tick when you don’t move. Thats half the damage of a single bleed, and individual bleeds tick for diddly squat and are only dangerous in stacks of 10 or higher. If you move with torment on, it only ticks twice per second instead of once. Taking twice of diddly squat is still diddly squat!

Next time you’re in tPvP and you die to a necromancer, look at where your damage sources are coming from. Bleeding will be at the top, followed by either fear or burning damage (they sometimes switch places), with torment dead last. Torment doesn’t even make up 1/4th of the total over all damage that you will have taken.

Thats a missunderstanding. I meant burning to be toned down, not torment.

Both we and engies have it our power tree. Yet condi builds abuse it. What i suggested was to maybe even remove Condi.Dmg. scaling for burning, and make it harder to re-apply. So when u cleanse the “long-burn” u are safe for a while.

Direct Dmg = INSTANT
Conditions = Damage OVER TIME

Burning is curently closer to direct dmg, its a way of BURST, even though its not a intensity but a DURATION stacking condition.

Sorry, forgot to copy so now its in 2 posts….

1) This would also bring down the burning engies which started the condi burst. Conditioners dont need burst.

2) I would like the burn——>Torment trade to be able to actualy force some1 to stand still for a second.
Not kill, but like " just stand there still, so i can attack u better"
Alternative use = a short disengage/timeout

emon.1863:

timidobserver.7925:

The necro nerf is inevitable. Just make sure that you nerf them where they are over performing at, which is Spvp. Nothing in that patch effected WvW very much, so be sure to leave WvW necros alone.

Thats going to be impossible, since WvW necros are running now (mostly) same build xD

They do have the ability to make changes that only apply if the player if in SPVP. I don’t Spvp much, but I do it enough to know that Necros are overperforming slightly in SPVP. Hopefully the nerf is limted to that.

Chase.8415:

Kravick.4906:

Terror hasn’t changed. Its always done the same damage it has now since forever. Necros were considered weak and not viable before. Then ANet adds burning (nothing else changed, torment is frankly useless and has next to no up time to matter) and suddenly necromancers need to be nerfed, starting with terror? kitten? Doesn’t even make any sense.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2pyondu.jpg
I’ve always found them overpowered.

One Necro being a top player on one match at once instance in time = Necros being overpowered?

M’kay.

Chase.8415:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2pyondu.jpg
I’ve always found them overpowered.

I don’t believe it’s fair to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion from a single screenshot, especially one that was from a PuG sPvP match.

Are necromancers overpowered at the moment in:
PVE – not at all, warriors are still king there
WvW large group – no, but they bring as much pressure as guardians and elementalists bring utility
WvW solo/roaming – no, thieves are OP/broken, and elementalists and mesmers are still superior at roaming
tPvP – hard to state at the moment. The change in condition pressure is forcing a meta change, but we haven’t had enough time to see how that plays out

That being said, I think Jonathan Sharp effectively stated that it was not their intent to give Terror builds that additional tick via the Sigil of Paralyzation (SoP).

Removing 1 tick of Terror will reduce about 1k of damage to a target, which is a lot.

Burning, when combined with other conditions and spread with epidemic, really puts a lot of pressure on teams. Perhaps too much so.

The change to the sigil of paralyzation will help reduce necro ‘burst’ damage. Right now a high-crit necromancer build can get 50%+ uptime on burning which may be a bit much (5+ ticks).
When timed well, a necro can spread at least 4 seconds of burning, around 10 stacks of bleeds, Torment, Chill and Weakness to an entire team. That’s a lot of pressure, and AoE cleanses will be pretty much required.

Personally, I view the AoE weakness to be a great way to counter-comp burst teams, which still seems trendy based upon what I have observed watching tournaments and the like. I’d be inclined to keep that in Epidemic, even though I think Jonathan Sharp is considering removing that from what Epidemic can spread (based upon the SOTG).

If ArenaNet reduced Dhuumfire in tPvP to a proc 3 seconds of Burning, I believe it would make a substantial difference. A 30/x/x/x/x/ necro build would then be able to only spread, at best, 2 ticks of burning unless they specced into additional condition duration.

Changing burn from a 4 second base to a 3 second base will remove 2 ticks of burning, as 30 points in Spite gives you a 30% increase in condition duration (burning is actually 5 seconds long). 3*1.30 = 3.9 which will not guarantee 4 ticks of burning.

With that subtle change the amount of team pressure is substantially reduced. At best a necro will only be able to spread 2 ticks of burning instead of 4 (I am assuming 1 second to get Epidemic off). Assuming burning ticks at 550 damage per tick (guesstimate), that’s 1100 damage x #players – upwards of 4400 damage reduced.

A corollary to this effect, condition removal becomes somewhat less challenging. The uptime of a Burning spread by epidemic will be cut in half, so cleansing other conditions such as weakness and bleeds will be more viable.

If I were the developer, this is where I would start, but I’d restrict the Dhuumfire change for tPvP/sPvP only. Dhuumfire is definitely not overpowered in PVE, and most players that run a hybrid build in PvE will opt for “Close to Death” (20% damage to enemies with < 50% health) anyway.

In WvW there is a LOT of condition cleansing and players running around with food which reduces condition duration by 40%, so I think changing the duration of Dhuumfire there will do more harm than good to the viability of builds that utilize it.

Ya’ll realize that the necro in the screenshot was myself right?

I would go in PvP matches and get 350+ a game, furthermore one of those players in the screenshot is RANK 1 in a PvP team at this moment.

I never saw a reason to have them buffed in the first place, and now that they have they’re even more overpowered.

Chase.8415:

Ya’ll realize that the necro in the screenshot was myself right?

I would go in PvP matches and get 350+ a game, furthermore one of those players in the screenshot is RANK 1 in a PvP team at this moment.

I never saw a reason to have them buffed in the first place, and now that they have they’re even more overpowered.

You realize that

I don’t believe it’s fair to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion from a single screenshot, especially one that was from a PuG sPvP match.

I’m disgusted by how you are managing the pvp and the changes of the various classes …. the necro has become from zero to hero ….

Poplolita.2638:

Chase.8415:

Ya’ll realize that the necro in the screenshot was myself right?

I would go in PvP matches and get 350+ a game, furthermore one of those players in the screenshot is RANK 1 in a PvP team at this moment.

I never saw a reason to have them buffed in the first place, and now that they have they’re even more overpowered.

You realize that

I don’t believe it’s fair to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion from a single screenshot, especially one that was from a PuG sPvP match.

Except for the fact that very few people even bothered playing Necromancers in general with PvP. I always found them fine in terms of balance, a well time fear could break a match.

They didn’t need buffs.

Sieg.8439:

Chase.8415:

Kravick.4906:

Terror hasn’t changed. Its always done the same damage it has now since forever. Necros were considered weak and not viable before. Then ANet adds burning (nothing else changed, torment is frankly useless and has next to no up time to matter) and suddenly necromancers need to be nerfed, starting with terror? kitten? Doesn’t even make any sense.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2pyondu.jpg
I’ve always found them overpowered.

One Necro being a top player on one match at once instance in time = Necros being overpowered?

M’kay.

This guy lost the match. Doesn’t matter how many points you got if you lose the game. Only means that the guy run around killing noobs and didn’t care about the team