Guild Wars 2

Honest question to the devs : why am I not allowed to play the profession I love in the way I want?

You tell me that I can play the way I want…but it appears that I can’t, you gave such distinct and obvious advantages to “some” professions that every fight against them becomes an uphill struggle for survival…let alone being able to be useful to your team.

Now I won’t be sitting here listing the professions I’m talking about or the advantages they hold respect to other for a given role, because I’m not interested in any inflammatory and biased comment.

Moving on, let’s consider your balance approach to this game, particularly the elementalist

You can’t keep balancing this profession asking the player to always invest 20-30 trait points in water to play the profession at all

Just why are you so hell bent in forcing specific traitlines on a profession?
-Water/arcana or get the hell out of pvp- This what it means to play an ele in gw2 and on top of that you gave them possibly the only burst ranged weapon in the entire game..without a single way to keep enemies at range

Now after this wall of text ( I needed it to vent my frustation ), allow me to “refine” my question:

Will ele get a decent burst role with the upcoming expansion?

I won’t play the same water/arcana build for another 2 years, simple as that; and if the datamined sword set proves to be true…then yes, in that case it’ll be time for me to go.

I was initially excited about the “sword leak”..then I realized that I’m sick of the battlemage concept and I simply want to play the gw2 ele like as it was in gw1: a ranged caster dealing with the elements.

I’d really love an answer from the devs and I hope my wall of text was not “too” much to digest, I’m really not trying to offend anybody, I’m just irritated at the state this profession has been reduced : a boring glorified healing bot, a far cry from the invoke air spike ele of GW1

S/F Fresh Air build

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_S/F_Fresh_Air

Taking in consideration the standards of viability in GW2, s/f fresh air is simply not viable

You will spend 3/4 of the time trying to stay alive, because all your defenses are linked to absurdly high CD skills/utilities, lack of reliable escapes, add the incapability to bypass the basic defenses of some professions in an effective and practical way.

I tried dozen of fresh air builds, none offer the same level of results displayed by other professions in the same role.

But ty for your suggestion

You mean how DoD almost won a place in WTS with an S/F ele? C’mon man, burst ele is viable. You can’t ask for buffs on this crap when you can just abuse z-axis teleport, an invuln every 45 seconds, and have the best burst in the game with the “apparent” phoenix bug where it hits 7 times.

That’s just not good mayne.

To answer the question in the title – why not?
If you go for team optimalization there are of course “ideal” picks, but these are not set in stone…

If you want to play Burst Ele, then adjust your comp to it!

Solo play is of course another story… Not too long ago I made a thread in which we deducted that playing it safe will just guarantee you more victories

I know someone who has literally been playing Burst Staff Ele for years… Despite it being far from the best builds out there and the advantages other spike classes have, he does an amazing job… If you catch someone, or multiple people too occupied to notice you, you can easily do some serious spike damage, with little room to recover for the enemy… Downside? Well, it relies on the surprise factor and extreme peeling from the team

So yea… It is possible, but you need to have people with a certain mindset to pull it off… In soloplay, there are a lot more builds that suffer aside from Spike Eles, though Fresh Air comes close to viable

BlackTruth.6813:

You mean how DoD almost won a place in WTS with an S/F ele? C’mon man, burst ele is viable. You can’t ask for buffs on this crap when you can just abuse z-axis teleport, an invuln every 45 seconds, and have the best burst in the game with the “apparent” phoenix bug where it hits 7 times.

That’s just not good mayne.

Pls do explain me how an invulnerability on 50s CD will help you to stay alive for any decent amount of time against any of the current meta build.
- when your target can access stealth every 2s or so
- can teleport safely behind a pillar, re-writing the game physic
- can block all dmg and heal at same time

…all accessible with skills sporting a far smaller CD

Then you mention that I can “abuse” a 40s Cd teleport which does not defy the game physic when other profession got the same thing at the same range ( but that can defy the game physic) ….at less than a 1/4 the CD

GoogleBrandon.5073:

To answer the question in the title – why not?
If you go for team optimalization there are of course “ideal” picks, but these are not set in stone…

If you want to play Burst Ele, then adjust your comp to it!

Solo play is of course another story… Not too long ago I made a thread in which we deducted that playing it safe will just guarantee you more victories

I know someone who has literally been playing Burst Staff Ele for years… Despite it being far from the best builds out there and the advantages other spike classes have, he does an amazing job… If you catch someone, or multiple people too occupied to notice you, you can easily do some serious spike damage, with little room to recover for the enemy… Downside? Well, it relies on the surprise factor and extreme peeling from the team

So yea… It is possible, but you need to have people with a certain mindset to pull it off… In soloplay, there are a lot more builds that suffer aside from Spike Eles, though Fresh Air comes close to viable

That’s the problem!
What if you haven’t got an ESL level team to play with? Then you simply can’t even try a fresh air ele as solo player.

You become a viability for your team, you get focused down by all enemy team and you have not a single reliable way to deal with focus fire, but hey “attention here”.
I’m not asking to face tank dmg and deal burst at the same time, I’m just asking for some decent way to stay alive like other professions in the same role.

-an aoe knockback?
-an aoe weakness?
-a retreat/roll back?

Anything that doesn’t sit at over 20s CD really; all other professions covering the same burst role have reliable defense skills sitting within the 20s CD treshold and this is what I call “standard of viability” as burst

In the end what i can possibly hope to achieve when i get camped by a stealthed thief,a a mesmer crippling, bursting from distance or an engi and its trillion conditions.

I have no stealth or portals, just a huge CD invulnerability and few dodges, teleporting at 900 range means nothing against a thief…‘cause he can chase you anywhere and mesmer can simply spawn a phantasm close to where you may try to escape…and let’s not forget med guardians or lb rangers hitting from over 1500 range…..it’s a nightmare

Supreme.3164:

Pls do explain me how an invulnerability on 50s CD will help you to stay alive for any decent amount of time against any of the current meta build.

exactly, they really need to buff endure pain and berserker stance, heh

Supreme.3164:

That’s the problem!
What if you haven’t got an ESL level team to play with?

Never hindered me when I played my Fresh Air Ele – and this was before last years’ April 15th Patch where Cele D/D came back

If you do not have an ESL team, chances are that you will not face them – and frankly, nearly everything works in mid-tier depending on how well you and your teammates understand one another

Can’t cope with it? Sorry, but the options to do else are there – but the designers of the game are not solely to blame for this, as certain individuals have and will always done well so far on niche specs

I clearly stated that it was my desire to avoid any unnecessary comment, other that warrant a report, trollish and childish comments contribute nothing to the thread.
I’d really appreciate if you can keep the thread clean, free from the clutter that you create.

I only wish to have calm and relaxed discussion with mature and intelligent people, I don’t need any flaming or trolling

Thank you for your understanding and have a nice day

S/F ele is 100% viable in all but the highest levels of play. You don’t see them in tourneys because: thief is more mobile by a LOT and a VERY WELL PLAYED thief can stomp you consistently.

Luckily, most thieves that aren’t at the top level are very bad. Thieves who are impatient are actually very easy to beat as fresh air, and if you learn the strategies to beat them you’ll think s/f actually has the advantage.

The survivability of s/f ele is actually VERY good when you rotate your cooldowns and position well. You can’t panic and hit your invuln, projectile reflects, projectile block (swirling), arcane shield, and trident heal all simultaneously. These things are meant to get you out of trouble or be applied in the right situation. You also want to stay at range (in a team fight) and keep up your air damage until you can close in for the kill. Count dodges so you won’t miss your phoenix. LOS when in a real fight, and use the ability to cast things like phoenix, shatterstone, and lightning strike/flash on enemies behind you. You can cast dragon’s tooth and comet without LOS completely.

Your role is NOT to 1v1. If someone squishy shows up, you can beat them, and have an advantage against any ranger, cele engie, necro, or non-bunker guard, but will can also lose if they land a good burst. If you get caught in a 1v1 with someone tanky, just leave (unless you are stalling for a few seconds while help arrives). If you DO choose to fight someone like that, give up the point (seriously, don’t just stand there tanking) and go kite around the available structures (take a high ground so you can easily LOS, hug the little lip on waterfall, etc) so they either leave the point (and stop getting progress) or stand there and eat tons of damage while help arrives. However, in most situations, you want to be a pseudo-thief and your goal is to +1 fights. Hop into any 1v1 and you should be able to finish it very quickly while also giving a few heals/support to your team-mate who was there.

Finally, you seem to insinuate that thieves make s/f irrelevant, which is only true for the best thieves (especially s/d thieves who know how to be patient). 90% of theives I have faced have run in head-first against me with full-cd’s and gotten rekt. Here is some advice: DON’T even try to avoid the backstab with dodges or utilities. Instead, have your hand primed and ready to hit arcane shield, signet of air (if you take this as stunbreak), stone flesh, or, if you are out of other CD’s, lightning flash away. After getting them out of stealth, hit tab (it will select the theif as target) and start bursting. Don’t try and defend yourself more. Your best defense against a thief is to unload your burst onto him making him run, or usually die. One single phoenix/air-swap is usually more than enough to kill a thief. Even more most are predictable and start trying to stealth even after eating just 1 air-swap. You will learn to get a feeling for when they will so you can start casting one of your cc’s (which is 100% death if you interrupt their black-powder—hearthseeker). If that isn’t available, just start your air auto sequence so they eat a full channel while in stealth.

I hope that helps.

Supreme.3164:

Taking in consideration the standards of viability in GW2, s/f fresh air is simply not viable

You will spend 3/4 of the time trying to stay alive, because all your defenses are linked to absurdly high CD skills/utilities, lack of reliable escapes, add the incapability to bypass the basic defenses of some professions in an effective and practical way.

I tried dozen of fresh air builds, none offer the same level of results displayed by other professions in the same role.

But ty for your suggestion

welcome to the life of a theif.

I play burst d/d, on a build most people don’t understand how to play. I literally spent weeks fine-crafting my build until it did everything I wanted. Point is you can craft a build that suits your style of playing, with some imagination.

I agree however that Anet nerfed the ele so bad (and in the wrong ways) they didn’t make our life easy.

Having an elite worth using would certainly help the class. Right now he ele has 8 “active” skills while the other classes have 9 because of our useless elites.

Most burst ele builds go 2 or 4 in water tops as what’s the point since you’re so glassy. Secondly arcana is generally 4 and rarely 6 because EA investment means you’re dodging into meele range which kills your kiting.

Sorry but after reading your complaints about “mandatory” point investment, I’m skeptical of your posts accuracy. When I run burst ele it can be ugly at times but that’s like any zerker builds. Adapt your build based on their team comp.

If you enjoy zerker ele keep playing and just realize sure you got one shot because your guard was down, but when he lets his guard down you get to repay the favor. This is just how zerker builds are. Volatile.

Michael.9517:

Supreme.3164:

Taking in consideration the standards of viability in GW2, s/f fresh air is simply not viable

You will spend 3/4 of the time trying to stay alive, because all your defenses are linked to absurdly high CD skills/utilities, lack of reliable escapes, add the incapability to bypass the basic defenses of some professions in an effective and practical way.

I tried dozen of fresh air builds, none offer the same level of results displayed by other professions in the same role.

But ty for your suggestion

welcome to the life of a theif.

What? Thieves still think they have it harder? Epic facepalm.

i played fresh air on and off for a long time, always going back to d/d celestial because nothing else is truly viable.

when i play fresh air i play it for a couple of days just to find out that i could simply play thief or guard (or even mesmer) and have it easier + i can do more for my team.
all that fresh air is is a 900 ranged, no boon removal shatter mesmer with laughable cooldowns and no portal/moa.

berserk balance is really bad atm, it’s either play guard or thief or go home (mesmer is okayish).

i made balance suggestions a couple of times but nothing was ever done (surprise) other than buffing water #2, the most useless skill of the weaponset, and the speed increase of earth #3.

what the build needs to be somewhat better is:

- overhaul of the auto attacks, they are slow, clunky and deal unreliable damage.
basically only air is good.

- dragon’s tooth should be a ground target cast.

- shatterstone should be replaced by something that is worth using.

- a good heal for a berserk build, signet is nice and stuff but it’s more of a HoT, bad for fast fights. other heals are crap too.

- a strong elite with a short cooldown, like basilisk venom

- cantrip mastery should make lightning flash 1200 range

- cd reductions on defensive skills would make it so much easier

- an immob please, water #2 maybe?

The fact that you need to go 6 into air to make scepter even work properly just shows the terrible design of the weapon. (No, those gimmicky earth #1 builds do not count.)

BlackBeard.2873:

S/F ele is 100% viable in all but the highest levels of play. You don’t see them in tourneys because: thief is more mobile by a LOT and a VERY WELL PLAYED thief can stomp you consistently.

Luckily, most thieves that aren’t at the top level are very bad. Thieves who are impatient are actually very easy to beat as fresh air, and if you learn the strategies to beat them you’ll think s/f actually has the advantage.

The survivability of s/f ele is actually VERY good when you rotate your cooldowns and position well. You can’t panic and hit your invuln, projectile reflects, projectile block (swirling), arcane shield, and trident heal all simultaneously. These things are meant to get you out of trouble or be applied in the right situation. You also want to stay at range (in a team fight) and keep up your air damage until you can close in for the kill. Count dodges so you won’t miss your phoenix. LOS when in a real fight, and use the ability to cast things like phoenix, shatterstone, and lightning strike/flash on enemies behind you. You can cast dragon’s tooth and comet without LOS completely.

Your role is NOT to 1v1. If someone squishy shows up, you can beat them, and have an advantage against any ranger, cele engie, necro, or non-bunker guard, but will can also lose if they land a good burst. If you get caught in a 1v1 with someone tanky, just leave (unless you are stalling for a few seconds while help arrives). If you DO choose to fight someone like that, give up the point (seriously, don’t just stand there tanking) and go kite around the available structures (take a high ground so you can easily LOS, hug the little lip on waterfall, etc) so they either leave the point (and stop getting progress) or stand there and eat tons of damage while help arrives. However, in most situations, you want to be a pseudo-thief and your goal is to +1 fights. Hop into any 1v1 and you should be able to finish it very quickly while also giving a few heals/support to your team-mate who was there.

Finally, you seem to insinuate that thieves make s/f irrelevant, which is only true for the best thieves (especially s/d thieves who know how to be patient). 90% of theives I have faced have run in head-first against me with full-cd’s and gotten rekt. Here is some advice: DON’T even try to avoid the backstab with dodges or utilities. Instead, have your hand primed and ready to hit arcane shield, signet of air (if you take this as stunbreak), stone flesh, or, if you are out of other CD’s, lightning flash away. After getting them out of stealth, hit tab (it will select the theif as target) and start bursting. Don’t try and defend yourself more. Your best defense against a thief is to unload your burst onto him making him run, or usually die. One single phoenix/air-swap is usually more than enough to kill a thief. Even more most are predictable and start trying to stealth even after eating just 1 air-swap. You will learn to get a feeling for when they will so you can start casting one of your cc’s (which is 100% death if you interrupt their black-powder—hearthseeker). If that isn’t available, just start your air auto sequence so they eat a full channel while in stealth.

I hope that helps.

+1

Well said. Much appreciated.

Jekkt.6045:

i played fresh air on and off for a long time, always going back to d/d celestial because nothing else is truly viable.

when i play fresh air i play it for a couple of days just to find out that i could simply play thief or guard (or even mesmer) and have it easier + i can do more for my team.
all that fresh air is is a 900 ranged, no boon removal shatter mesmer with laughable cooldowns and no portal/moa.

berserk balance is really bad atm, it’s either play guard or thief or go home (mesmer is okayish).

i made balance suggestions a couple of times but nothing was ever done (surprise) other than buffing water #2, the most useless skill of the weaponset, and the speed increase of earth #3.

what the build needs to be somewhat better is:

- overhaul of the auto attacks, they are slow, clunky and deal unreliable damage.
basically only air is good.

- dragon’s tooth should be a ground target cast.

- shatterstone should be replaced by something that is worth using.

- a good heal for a berserk build, signet is nice and stuff but it’s more of a HoT, bad for fast fights. other heals are crap too.

- a strong elite with a short cooldown, like basilisk venom

- cantrip mastery should make lightning flash 1200 range

- cd reductions on defensive skills would make it so much easier

- an immob please, water #2 maybe?

They’ll never buff the damage or speed of the ele. They’ve been nerfing it to the ground for the last 3 years. Remember the good old Divinity runes+Meteornado days that we could drop in the middle of a zerg and mistform-heal away? or when we could RTL freely across EB?

More and more the staff ele has been confined into a water-bot role as we warned anet, until they realized how they broke the class and gave us Lightning rod to compensate and re-buffed slightly our healing so that we could spend points elsewhere.

The might stacking d/d ele was just a workaround for having to spend all our points in water to stay alive.

Supreme.3164:

I clearly stated that it was my desire to avoid any unnecessary comment, other that warrant a report, trollish and childish comments contribute nothing to the thread.
I’d really appreciate if you can keep the thread clean, free from the clutter that you create.

I only wish to have calm and relaxed discussion with mature and intelligent people, I don’t need any flaming or trolling

Thank you for your understanding and have a nice day

I am so sorry you are amazing player so what you say must be truth I am sorry sorry sorry very sorry am sorry so sorry. you are best player so you know game best player sorry.