Guild Wars 2

Jon,

As an avid Warrior fan I was wondering what your thoughts (your opinion) are in terms of the profession?

I find there’s a silver lining of how good a Warrior can be compared to the other Professions. We bring a couple of things to the table, yet many people consider those abilities to be worth less than other professions.

So, in your opinion (since you have all the data), where do we stand?

Do we need a little help? Or are we just fine?
How’s our build diversity?
What’s our tPvP representation among teams that come in 1st place?

Today, for the first time since the game released I played a Mesmer. I was amazed at how many of their abilities do multiple things at once. After toying around I realized that the Warrior class, in MY opinion needs attack diversity as well.

So I sat down and pondered. Hmmmmmm, what is there available in the gaming universe for me to pull an idea from.

And then it hit me!

Attack combinations!

What if instead of lets say Mace #1 (attacks three times, and on the third attack it applies Weakness)

We changed it to something like: (I’m a programmer so bear with my logic)

Mace #1

- Gain a Combo strike (create a combo strike bar on the right side of the Warrior).
If(Combo Strike == True && Attack != Mace #1) AKA we already have a combo strike
{
//A weapon can’t combo into itself
Attack places Weakness on your enemy and grants the Warrior Vigor.
}

Mace #2

-Gains a Combo Strike
If(Combo Strike == True && Attack != Mace #2) ’Aka we already have a combo strike
{
Attack Stuns the enemy, and leaves churning earth under their feat.
}

TLDR:
-Weapon attacks combo into each other to perform boons / conditions on the enemy as well as place ‘warrior’ like attacks on them. Single weapon attacks cannot combo into themselves, forcing the Warrior to use attack diversity.
-Grant additional bonus’s if the Warrior does a weapon combo across weapon swaps.

Thoughts?

Thank you for your time,
-Defektive

Warriors have the highest base health and armor so naturally they are going to offer a more no frills play style. A lot of the features that make playing an elementalist, for example, enjoyable simply wouldn’t be balanced if you added them to a warrior.

Perhaps you are just tired of playing warrior. I myself played warrior exclusively and gave it up to play dual dagger elemenatlist. I can’t really get into any other professions though because I need the 5 second weapon swap/attunement swapping or else I get bored.

The grass is not greener on the other side. Stay a warrior. Stay away from the light! Once you discover just how warriors are outclassed you might never come back, and we need you to take a stand with your fellow warrior brethren! I pray you don’t try making a thief…

I don’t think we need more attack diversity, although it would be nice. What I think warriors need are cool gimmicks to increase survivability. Yes we have heavy armor, but it still doesn’t mitigate damage nearly as good as stealth or clones. To play a warrior effectively as a other classes you have to have a very low margin of error.

Defektive.7283:

Today, for the first time since the game released I played a Mesmer. I was amazed at how many of their abilities do multiple things at once. After toying around I realized that the Warrior class, in MY opinion need attack diversity as well.

Just popping in to up-vote your statement/opinion here. In my opinion I believe this is the underlying issue that causes much of the ruckus in the warrior forums and in-game. The overall vanilla “meh” feeling of the class once you start playing other classes and realize what they’re capable of, the synergy inherent in their design and the benefits it can provide a tourney team in competitive play.

I do also like the concept of warrior “combos” as it seems to fit the thematic concept of the warrior being a “master of arms”. Unsure if that’s the way ANet would go but at least it’s a jumping off point for brainstorming.

In my opinion I believe much of it comes down to a lack of secondary utility in much of what a warrior does, some weapon ability design characteristics I don’t fully understand the reasoning behind…
*The self root on hammer 4 and perhaps even 3 when it’s as slow as it is already

*HB being the 2 attack instead of the burst ability and some other attack going in it’s spot – surely you’ve noticed nobody wastes adrenaline on the GS burst ability

*1h sword being…. well, pretty much used for a gap closer only as the bleeds stack so slow and “auto attack” being the only fall-back. Ideally the cripple from 3 would be tied to 2 and a new attack put in the 3 position. Perhaps like the ranger evade attack or thief’s sword/dagger evade attack.

*Shield abilities being very bland with 5 only functioning as a stall unless traited into in order to get a basic secondary effect – reflect missles

*Why do banners disappear? Why don’t they function like engineer kits? Choose to grab it, use the abilities (charge, haste buff for the team, knockback or stability, etc) when it’s beneficial to the team and then plant that sucker when you need your weapon attacks, pick it up again when you move to another location. It would make actually make them engaging and might even have a purpose on the utility bar. Also it be visually appealing to charge a node with your banner held high on the initial push.

Also unless running EP>traited EP>traited shield block the warrior’s damage mitigation seems to be fairly bottom end. Again it’s going to seem like class envy I’m sure but thieves (I’ve run one yes) get called out as squishy, except evasion is the games primary damage mitigation which thieves have tied to their attacks and dodge ability out the butt with nigh perma-vigor. On my engi I have perma-vigor, my mesmer has evasion abilities on demand, etc. Only the necro really seems to “face-tank” like warriors but at least on my necro I have 2 HP bars (though I’m in no way saying necros are “fine” or anything, just bringing them up).

Also most every serious warrior tied to tourney streams runs frenzy… most of us hate it, but it’s the one thing that seems to give us the burst required to get that kill and seem threatening. It’s also the only one with such a severe penalty, and usually is tied to the most easily used countermeasures (dodge). Can’t say I’m a fan of frenzy but it’s almost like the warrior class was built AROUND it.

I’ll stop my ranting here, I hope it doesn’t come off too harsh as I do really enjoy the game overall and I do really want to enjoy my warrior more but currently as with most of the top tier teams (and I am pretty sure you’ve heard their comments on this issue as well) I just don’t see any reason where a warrior is deserving of a place on a tourney team when other classes fill the same function on the team and better.

Personally I think our survivability is fine if you bring in enough toughness / vit. The problem I’m finding is that our attacks most of the time, are just for damage. Where as other classes, their attacks do comparable damage, but also add multiple effects.

I would like to bridge that gap and offer some versatility and more importantly: incentive to weapon swap and be conscious of the attacks you’re using.

I tried out a mesmer today too in sPvP. First time ever playing one. Spent 5 minutes finding a decent build on the forum (20/25/20/0/0 staff + sword/pistol), 5 minutes testing attack combos on robots in mists with said build, and then I proceeded to join sPvP games and completely faceroll every class I came across except other mesmers. This was 10 minutes after my first ever having played a mesmer. Clearly we’ve made a mistake about the easy to play easy to master class, it’s definitely not the warrior. Jon said mesmers are being looked at, I’ll be anxiously awaiting to see what (if anything) happens to them and to warriors.

Forgot to mention for full disclosure, until I rolled this mesmer today I played a warrior exclusively, lvl 80 and very active in spvp /wvw.

So, you rolled an high health, low skill cap class to own noobs with two buttons and now want utility and whatsnot. Do you know that means you woud have to lose the two buttons properties to be given that utility?

I use more than use two buttons, I generally use 16 buttons.

I run Hammer / Axe-Mace.

@ Vaerah

Yes, it means illusions, invisibility, incentive and overall more effective unique class mechanics. Warriors are far from a low skill cap class to own noobs. (Unless you’re a frenzy+100 blades minute warrior.) I’d argue that they are the highest skill cap class because in order to win as a warrior you have to time your cool downs almost perfectly compared to the top classes in order to win. Wait, I take that back, I think Elementalists are the highest skill cap class due to attunement swapping, but warriors are up there believe it or not.

Defektive.7283:

I use more than use two buttons, I generally use 16 buttons.

I run Hammer / Axe-Mace.

Oh well I run the default GS build and I only need to press 3, 2 / 2,3 and sometimes 4 and 5. Boring and ******** spec? Sure but it works against 90% of the playerbase.

PeteyPen.7136:

@ Vaerah

Yes, it means illusions, invisibility, incentive and overall more effective unique class mechanics. Warriors are far from a low skill cap class to own noobs. (Unless you’re a frenzy+100 blades minute warrior.) I’d argue that they are the highest skill cap class because in order to win as a warrior you have to time your cool downs almost perfectly compared to the top classes in order to win. Wait, I take that back, I think Elementalists are the highest skill cap class due to attunement swapping, but warriors are up there believe it or not.

Yes I play ele, necro and warrior the most (ranger too), warrior was meant to be my weaponsmith alt (to make stuff for ele and necro) so I cobbled a basic GS set together for it, but when I found out it was so effective, I started to actually play it everywhere.
It’s a refreshing change being able to swap from 400 crits and basic survival achieved with 10 button presses to 6k crits and basic survival granted by dodging and moving in and out.

Vaerah.4907:

So, you rolled an high health, low skill cap class to own noobs with two buttons and now want utility and whatsnot.

Actually I rolled a warrior because I like warriors. I tend to roll one in every game given the opportunity. I don’t like the “paladin” who uses some divine power to fight for him, I don’t really like the “stealthy” guy that uses invis and stunlocking to fight dirty and gank people, I don’t like dress wearing finger wagglers (spellchuckers). I like the concept of the guy that has only himself to do the job. Has nothing to do with “owning noobs with two buttons”, which btw I can do on a thief with 1, but with the style preference I have. There’s no reason it has to be some bland vanilla concept.

Believe it or not I actually prefer as much complexity as I can get with my warrior. I like “stance dancing” I like weapon swapping, I like chains/combos, I like setting up for that perfect moment where you get in the opponents face and lock him down while you beat him to a pulp with some random slab of metal. If you could give me ele/engi versatility (kit engi mind you) along with their same utility, damage and whatnot on a warrior class I’d be totally happy.

Vaerah.4907:

Do you know that means you woud have to lose the two buttons properties to be given that utility?

And that would be a happy day and welcome trade indeed. If you notice from the warrior forum, VERY VERY few of us actually like/enjoy that whole gimmicky BR>FZ>HB minute-warrior thing. It’s tacky, it’s boring, it’s just “meh”.

Well, the attitude here is actually better than the attitude in the Warrior forums, where the opposition’s stance is that everything is just fine and everyone but them is an idiot.

Obviously, long term this will be a problem. It’s cute to have a profession be the jack of all trades, master of none in PvE, but in PvP, where people need to perform roles, this just doesn’t work. You need defined classes. You can’t lazily poop one out and call it Mister Average. Otherwise, there’s no reason to bring it other than not having access to the professions that are better at that role; in this game, you can role a max level whatever-you-need in seconds, so that’s not going to be a legitimate method of balancing in GW2.

If you want to look at the profession objectively, consider the roles performed in sPvP (whether current or potential), then look at which professions meet those criteria, how they overlap, why one is chosen over the others in what situation, and in what niche the Warrior should fall amongst those roles. Is it disruption? Burst damage? Sustained? Bunkering?

Any way you view the Warrior, it will eventually need to settle into at least one niche where it can prove itself superior to every other profession, in some way. Otherwise, it’ll always be the bench warmer, regardless of how close it comes to being 2nd best at something.

^ I personally believe the Profession should be considered Disruption / Survivability / High Sustained (not burst).

Adding Combos in to promote higher damage attacks or utility from attacks would go a long way to promoting cross weapon combos and awareness of attacks.

I don’t know about the combo, I don’t feel it will change something.

I’m not sure of it’s what you said, but basically, instead of say, doing 1-2-3-4-5 skills, that would be 1-2-1-3-1-4-1-5 ? (ofc, it’s a bit random, but that would just mean to put a basic attack aka #1 between each skills ?). I don’t really see where that would improve the warrior about the “vanilla”. Especially that if we still have cooldown on our skills, there will be a point where we couldn’t use anymore our combo (all skills minus one (probably the #1) are in cd). Or then swap weapon to make combo with the other set ? Then, that would be 1-2-1-3-1-4-1-5-1-swap-2-1-3-1-4-5 etc.
The only point I can see here is that would provide the third attack of #1 faster using the other skills to combo it.

I think there’s more to search about adrenaline, which currently is just a bar to fill in and then use a more powerful attack (or not, with GS).

^ Well the idea isn’t to just use the different abilities in different orders and obtain the same results.

It’s more to use different abilities in different orders to provide group wide boons, or AoE conditions or other special effects.

So instead of Mace #1 just applying weakness to an enemy. If you combo INTO Mace #1 it’ll apply weakness to an enemy as well as give the warrior Vigor.

Then couple in Weapon Swap combos and they provide even larger incentives such as.

Weapon Swap (combo) into Hammer #5 (usually a 1 person stun) now it does the stun as well as places churning earth below that persons feet causing any enemy who enters it to take damage.

Essentially combos give larger gains than what weapon attacks do now.

I wouldn’t mind seeing something with the f2-f4 keys to do with either some kind of stance dancing (similar to ele attunement, different attacks for the weapon we’re using based off what stance we’re in) or perhaps like the engi’s belt kit with say our physical moves (taking ‘stomp’ gives you the 20 second ‘kick’ on the f2 key, instead of that being it’s own ability, for example).

Though i would really like to see some kind of stance dancing personally. Something simple like:
f2= defensive stance: Abilities are more evasion/block/weakness condi in nature
f3= balanced stance: Abilities are about what we have now with cripple condi’s and gap closers
F4= offensive stance: Abilities are reckless and agressive in nature perhaps with on-crit effects and more bleeding/vunerability condi’s

Give them a swap timer like ele attunements and it becomes a tactical/strategic decision. Might give certain weapon setups some actual viability as well (sword’n’shield for instance, which I admit I really wish I could run).

I know it’d be a lot of animation/new abilities to come up with but it would definately add some dynamics/complexity to the class.

Just an idea.

More F1 skills that would bring dynamic changes to abilities would be a great thing too, and the functionality is already there with the Ele Profession.

I would just like to keep the discussion open and have as many people give out their thoughts and ideas on the subject. The goal of the discussion however is how we can improve the Warrior Profession in such a way that 100B isn’t a go-to build for many players, as well as increase the incentive to bring a Warrior to tPvP.

I think banners would be cool if you would get another skill when the banner was out. Something to boost banner effect, like healing or knockback on banner area.

Maybe replace your F1 skill with a new one depending on what banner is out?

If you use different abilities in different orders to obtain group boons, Aoe, etc, why not simply put them in the base skills ? The only difference being that the “bonus” will only apply 1/2 skill.
Honestly, I’m not really a fan of combo (well, at least as what you propose), I feel that’s something cool right now, on the paper, but in the end, I fear that’ll be some more vanilla meh, that force the player to alternate his skills. The improvement needed is more in terms of gameplay, something that’s not already in another class. Something unique, that’ll really make a difference between a warrior and another class (even and especially when they do the same role, e.g. support, dps, etc).

About banner, too, the thing is, the banner pops on the ground, and i’m generally in a fight. In that case, my weapon is more useful than go picking the banner (animation) plus buffing my allies (new animation). Personally, I would feel the banner more useful if we could hold it when we pop it. Instead of designating some place, get it in my hands.
That case, I could pop it, buff my allies, plant in on the ground, and continue fighting.

I like the idea of trying to spice up regular weapon abilities, and some re-working is probably in order. However, I was also thinking about banners, because I feel like they are one of the unique things about the Warrior class, but they just seem to be more clunky than anything else.

What if a banner was more like an Engineer kit. Bear with me, because I know the numbers don’t shake out, but if you put a banner on your utility bar, then it pops over onto a profession button. When you press the button, you grab the banner that is otherwise riding on your back (so you’re radiating buffs). You can then use the banner abilities, and either slam it into the ground for the blast effect, or put it back onto your back. If you have multiple banners, you could have multiple buffs radiating, as well as the ability to swap between banners to apply the different buffs.

As previously mentioned, you can have 4 banners at once, and there are only 3 profession slots remaining, so I know it isn’t completely realistic. However, I feel like it would make me really think about using a banner, which would add an extra dynamic to my play. Pulling it out, buffing everyone a few times, maybe charging forward, putting it back, etc.

I have tried banners a few times, and although I think they can be useful for teams, they seem too clunky to really use in a fast-paced fight.

Otherwise, I’ve thought about ideas similar to Braxxus’s above, where stances affect the abilities and allow for more dynamic play. I would love to be able to press more buttons and have a more dynamic experience, even if I already love the class.

The Warrior’s main problems lie with its traits, not necessarily its skills (although its skills are dull and two dimensional). Think about most of the builds you can make. What do they need? A way to remain mobile in melee, close distance and maintain pressure with the potential of a short spike, right? Or, if you’re ranged, a way to keep distance, keep up evasion, maintain condition pressure, etc. There are other examples. Feel free to imagine more.

Now, whatever example you have in your head, HOW do you make that a possibility? Odds are, the answer is one or two traits that almost all builds use, including one or two secondary skills that all builds use. Build stagnation is a problem for Warriors. We need things to help us stay in the fight, because our weapon skills don’t do this for us. Most other professions don’t need to worry about staying in melee, because they have innate mechanics that help them out. Warriors have to trait specifically to fix these problems, and use secondary skills to supplement them. As a result, you see a lot of posts declaring that someone has a brand new, unique build, and it looks 85% just like everyone else’s build, because the core limitations of the class always have to be addressed with the same tiny half-handful of skills.

The real solution is to change at least one or two traits in every line to help with mobility, closing and overall build viability. The Warrior has a lot of options that aren’t being explored because they can’t be explored.

Defektive.7283:

Maybe replace your F1 skill with a new one depending on what banner is out?

I was more like thinking replacing the actual banner skill. And if the skill was powerful enough while consuming the banner, it might actually be interesting!

I hope this is in regards to pve….

In tournaments I do very very well, at first I was getting my butt handed to me, but with some practice and a couple of routine combo’s you eventually figure out, if done properly and you have a good sense of your surroundings you should be one if not the top players in whatever team you are in, I have no problem what so ever with any other class other than another warrior….

^I would be interested in seeing your build, if you’d be kind enough to post it (I’m sure others wouldn’t mind seeing it either)

I have a few builds I run depending on the team build up I have and the map, if you are really interested pm me, I can tell you what my build is and combo cycles.

Go play a Necro if you want more effort invlved in just being average and skills always doing3 or 4 things at once. Warrior will feel like child’s play soon enough.

I think Warriors were designed as simple to play. An effective but shallow class because everyone wants to be a weapon swinging warrior. By design folks. You want depth, go pick classes that offer it. The fact certain classes can be very effective with very little learning involved is what makes the warrioropen of the better classes. Go be a Necro and learn that you can’t even trust the tool tips on your skills and traits because they’re simply not accurate.

“I hope this is in regards to pve….
In tournaments I do very very well, at first I was getting my butt handed to me, but with some practice and a couple of routine combo’s you eventually figure out, if done properly and you have a good sense of your surroundings you should be one if not the top players in whatever team you are in, I have no problem what so ever with any other class other than another warrior….”

No this is in regards to tPvP.

I do well in tPvP on my Warrior as well. But there have been MANY times that my team has wished I brought more to the table in the scheme of total group buffs or enemy debuffs.

I think we have enough survivability, I also think we definitly do enough damage.

However I don’t think we bring enough interesting utility to tPvP that would warrant us being picked over say a Mesmer / Guardian / Necro / Engineer.

So that’s the problem – alot of teams are running say 2 necros or 2 Guardians in place of having a Warrior. This is because alot of OTHER teams are running 2 Guardians, thus making the presence of removing Boons extremely important.

Essentially the tPvP Meta is revolving around Bunkers, dealing with Bunkers and Mitigating Bunkers. None of these areas Warriors really excel at.

Take Frenzy completely away and add that you can use 100B while moving. I use Frenzy + 100B because if you go without Frenzy you are lucky to hit more than 2 times with 100B against your opponent.

Essentially the tPvP Meta is revolving around Bunkers, dealing with Bunkers and Mitigating Bunkers. None of these areas Warriors really excel at.

One thing to keep in mind is about meta in general. From my minimal experience watching competitive scenes develop, meta leans one way, then someone has to figure out how to beat it. For example, if 2 guard comps are part of the bunker meta, perhaps an anti-boon comp will develop to counter it.

How do warriors fare against this anti-boon comp? Would they then be “meta’d” into the competitive game? I’d be hard pressed to think that ANet should jump the gun and do any Warrior balancing before more complex meta develops.

I would personally just like to see a bit more dynamic play involved.

Axe + Shield/GS and Bulls Charge + Frenzy is out-dated. Find a better build. And guess what? There are better builds.

Considering Warrior is most likely going to get buffed anyways since ANET bases their decisions on “data”, might as well learn to play a Warrior right now so then you get rewarded for being good later on.

schwahrheit

Axe + Shield/GS and Bulls Charge + Frenzy is out-dated. Find a better build. And guess what? There are better builds.

Meh… yeah kinda. That’s not really the point of the thread though if you actually read it. It’s about finding something to make the warrior more dynamic and complex, with strategic group utility to contribute.

Like.. what? Giving Warrior an F2 F3 F4?

Schwahrheit.4203:

Like.. what? Giving Warrior an F2 F3 F4?

That would be one way yes. There’s been a few ideas, and I’m sure other people have more.

Someone suggested doing more with the “combo” concept for warrior weapon attacks.
I suggested having “stances” to use with f2-3-4 that change the weapon abilities on our bar (Kind of like ele attunements).

Someone else mentioned perhaps having our utility abilities adding a “kit” function like engi’s to f2-3-4

Of course the most basic solution is to just make the weapons DO something other than “Deal x damage”. Perhaps adding combo fields for our teammates to make use of.

Etc.

It’s just idea spitballing here, chances are none of it will come to pass, but at least it gets warrior fans communicating civilly (ideally) with each other about why the class seems to be lacking and potential ways to make it more engaging without just straight ‘nerf x, buff y’.

Two ways that’s going to work. At least to me without people crying for a nerf after Warrior gets buffed.

1.) If they gave F2 F3 and F4 shouts while having some effects (Maybe even healing) of the shouts cut by half, that wouldn’t be really be over-buffed.

2.) Give F2 Bulls Charge. And that’s it.

The combo idea is nice and all, just that it might be time consuming for them because there’s still “balance issues” and programming in there. I presented two simple fixes that would be a nice buff and wouldn’t really make Warrior too good.

Personally though, I believe Fast Hands (Where when you switch for the first time in combat, your weapon switching is still at a 10 second cool down) and Adrenaline depletion needs to be fixed first-hand. All I really want right now.

I don’t understand people that come here to say “n build is outdated, here’s my build, it’s better”. The way GS works currently is … bad. Because there’s the combo : Bull, Frenzy, 100B. Which is easily avoidable, and with a glass cannon build.

Nonetheless, this post is about the gameplay of the warrior, which is “vanilla”. There’s nothing special about the warrior, and so nothing that can make him better than another class in the same role.
The warrior is not very good at condition, he’s not very good at being “tanky”, he’s not very good at support, and so one. And as with build, you cannot be a bit of damage and a bit of support (without sacrificing efficiency), there’s no reason the warrior should exist.
Currently, adrenaline is exactly the same as a cooldown, but the cd starts at the beginning of the fight. I remember there was more interesting things to do with, in Gw.

@Josher : So, if we want to play something interesting, there’s Necro, and that’s all ?
The warrior is not “effective with little effort”. He’s effective against people who don’t know how do deal with him, that’s all. I’ll understand your post as “Go play a necro, noob”.

Globally, the warrior skills are inferior to others. They do maybe a bit more damage, but have no other effects.

And about bugs, Schwarhrheit, there’s also lots of others traits and skills that need to be fixed. Though it’s not the point of the thread.

PanH.1957:

I don’t understand people that come here to say “n build is outdated, here’s my build, it’s better”. The way GS works currently is … bad. Because there’s the combo : Bull, Frenzy, 100B. Which is easily avoidable, and with a glass cannon build.

Nonetheless, this post is about the gameplay of the warrior, which is “vanilla”. There’s nothing special about the warrior, and so nothing that can make him better than another class in the same role.
The warrior is not very good at condition, he’s not very good at being “tanky”, he’s not very good at support, and so one. And as with build, you cannot be a bit of damage and a bit of support (without sacrificing efficiency), there’s no reason the warrior should exist.
Currently, adrenaline is exactly the same as a cooldown, but the cd starts at the beginning of the fight. I remember there was more interesting things to do with, in Gw.

@Josher : So, if we want to play something interesting, there’s Necro, and that’s all ?
The warrior is not “effective with little effort”. He’s effective against people who don’t know how do deal with him, that’s all. I’ll understand your post as “Go play a necro, noob”.

Globally, the warrior skills are inferior to others. They do maybe a bit more damage, but have no other effects.

And about bugs, Schwarhrheit, there’s also lots of others traits and skills that need to be fixed. Though it’s not the point of the thread.

Then don’t be a simple minded unskilled player and do Bulls Charge > Frenzy > Hundred Blades? Seriously you think that’s the only build that’s viable? Kid clearly does not play Warrior NOR does he have the decency to actually learn the class.

I’ve said this before, bad players can’t adapt and good ones won’t have anything to complain about. And hopefully you are really NOT the former.

There’s Flurry > Hundred Blades and Skull Crack > Hundred Blades. Don’t even need Bulls Charge anymore. Get these things down and you get to have Balanced Stance, Endure Pain, and Frenzy on your 7-8-9.

Calling Warrior under-powered because I’m a simple minded player who uses Bulls Charge > Frenzy > HB > Hurr Durr. Kinda cracking up a little bit on this part.

I don’t use GS, but i’m talking about the use that most warriors are doing of it. No need to be so contemptuous. That was about people (a lot) which often come on the warrior forum whining about HB.

Edit : And EP is bugged, 3s instead of 5, and still damage from condition. Works more like the Shield Stance.

Yeah so Warrior being under-powered is a “player skill” issue. Glad we both agree on something. I take that back.

Well, for now, the warrior is fine, but in the long run, the fact that we can multiple things without excelling at one won’t make the warrior viable.

Endure Pain taking no damage from conditions? I don’t know, sounds over-powered to me. If they do “fix” that then I won’t be against it but that does sound legit over-powered if you’re saying Endure Pain is supposed to mitigate conditions.

“Take no damage from attacks”
Yeah, I probably mixed up, the Ep in Gw was about everything. Although the duration is a bug.

Scwahr you blissfully ignore what the thread is talking about. It has nothing to do with GS gimmick builds, which most of us dislike anyways, and are acting pretty kittening kitten in general for no apparent reason.

Schwahrheit

Get these things down and you get to have Balanced Stance, Endure Pain, and Frenzy on your 7-8-9.

lol so your huge fix to the blandness and lack of reason to bring a warrior to a tourney team is dropping BR so you can take EP or BS. Of course I notice you still keep Frenzy. Could that be because Frenzy is what gives warriors the illusion of viability? Methinketh so.

@Pan: I don’t really think having audio/text excerpts of the top tier tourney teams referring to wars as a waste of a comp spot the same as “wars are fine currently”. They’re fine in SPvP and WvWvW sure, but that’s all follow the zerg anyways and frankly you can go into it with a random class and no trait points, lay down some AoE and do fine in those modes. They don’t really matter at all.

I would like to see Schwahr’s top tier team, stream, war guide/build that shows war’s filling a role on a team equal to or better than another class though. Sounds like he has it ALL figured out and AC/TP etc are all noobs right?

Considering the state of the game, the fix needed first, etc, the warrior is fine. The game has been out for 5 weeks, that’s few. That’s why I added “in the long run”. You can’t have a game with perfect balance so early.

I’m still wondering if the current meta will eventually shift to favor Warriors within a few levels before any balance changes are even made. However, it’s hard to tell when the meta has such a hard time developing on account of no private servers/tournaments.

Ah well. I think we have some good ideas here to make Warriors more dynamic, and I’ve enjoyed reading them. My current favorite is to turn banners into kits, as I would be very, very tempted to use one if that were the case. As it stands, I like them in something like WvWvW or potentially PvE, but they’re too “clunky” in my opinion. I’d be fine with stances too.

Something I would really like to see is more Warrior abilities that grant vigor, essentially solving some survivability problems as well as giving us actual boons for attacking.

Here’s a list (top of my head) that I’d like to see.

MACE

Mace #1 -
First attack – Places Weakness on Enemy
Second Attack – Grants Warrior Vigor
Third Attack – Combo Field – Grants those around you Vigor

SWORD

Sword #1 -
First Attack – Bleed
Second Attack – Cripple (2sec)

Sword #2 - Leap + 1sec immobolize

Sword #3 - Cripple(2 sec) + Appled 3 stacks of bleeds.

Sword #4/5 I think is fine as is.

HAMMER
Hammer #1 -
Attack #1 – Remove a boon from TARGETED enemy (since it has a long attack time and is an AOE)
Attack #2 – Grant 1 stack of Might for 3-5 seconds.
Attack #3 – (which is an AOE infront of the target) Apple a 2-3 second Cripple on enemies.

Hammer #2 - Applies Weakness to your enemy & Grant the Warrior Vigor

Hammer #3 - Replaced because Attack #3 of Hammer now apples Cripple
Attack – Throw your hammer and pull your target to you. Applies Knockdown 1second.
(20 sec cd)

Hammer #4 - Leave as is but remove the self root.

Hammer #5 - Leave as is (2 sec knockdown is already pretty good)

AXE

Axe #1 - Leave as is EXCEPT (already does good damage)
Attack #2 – Grant 2 seconds of fury.

Axe #2 - Leave as is except – Throw now pierces, applying cripple to all those in its path

Axe #3 - Leave as is (its quick and applies vulnerabiliy imo balanced)

Axe #4 - Leave as is (good damage, grants fury)

Axe #5 – Leave as is except – Grants the Warrior Vigor, Increase damage by 15% (right now auto attack does more damage by a long shot).

SHIELD

Shield #4 - Leave as is except – Apply Weakness to enemies surrounding the target (small AOE)

Shield #5 - Roll in the Missiles Reflect trait so that it now Blocks and Reflects Missiles.

WARHORN - IMO balanced just fine. MAYBE:

Warhorn #4 - In addition to its removers, apply cripple to enemies in range (3 seconds).

GREATSWORD - Jesus where to begin

GS F1 – This is now where Hundred Blades is. Damage is reduces by 15%, you can now attack while Mobile. Damage is increased by 5% for each level of Adren (at full Adren you’ll do the same amount of damage)

GS #1 - Leave as is (applies vulnerability on swing I believe? If it doesn’t then add that)

GS #2 - Strike your Foe for (1100 ish) Dmg and Grant yourself Fury for 4 seconds. – 15 sec CD

GS #3 - Leave as it, great skill

GS #4 - Leave as is except
First strike applies Immobolize (2 seconds)
Return strikes pulls the foe to the Warrior. (Sudo gap closer)

GS #5 - NEW: Block foes INFRONT of the Warrior for 3 seconds. Each attack blocked grants the Warriors 1 stack of Might for 3-5 seconds. (#4 is now useable as the gap closer).

LONGBOW - This needs SPECIAL attention
Increase projectile speed across the board.
Minimum attack range is 1200 – no longer traited.

F1 – Revamped
-F1 Lasts 5 seconds per Bar of Adren.
-Apply Burning in the AoE Field.
-Enemies within the Field now suffer from Weakness
-Remove 1 boon per enemy every 5 seconds (3 boons per enemy at full Adren, if they stand in it for 15 seconds)

Longbow #1 - Damage increased by 25% (it current hits like a wet noodle)
Apply Cripple (1sec)

Longbow #2 - Fire a TARGETED AoE Burning region (there needs to be more ways to apply burning, so the AoE spread imo isn’t very good).

Longbow #3 - Leave as is except
Foes hit have Immobilize Applied for 1.5 seconds.

Longbow #4 - Leave as is except lower the CD by 2 seconds.

Attack #5 - Immobolize your foe & Grant the Warrior Swiftness for 3 seconds.

I’ll do Rifle later but here are just some ideas that I dont think are that over powered it also add some pizaz.

There’s some good ideas into that, Def, but probably overpowering the warrior (you still have to consider there’s traits, runes, sigils too).

Although, that doesn’t seem really to orient the warrior into a role. There’s a lot more way to keep your enemies closer to you (immobilize, cripple, hammer) which is good, so the warrior would be sort of a cc specialist ?

And longbow damage #1 is worst than wet noodles. I have the feeling i’m throwing 2 sticks rather than using a bow.

I REALLY like the idea of making the Warrior more of an AoE team buffer in the sense of Vigor / Might / Fury, and Debuffer of Weakness. I think that would really add some team benefit and incentive for tPvP

I think there are some interesting ideas, but a few necessary aesthetic concerns:

1. For the Mace #1 Attack 3, what is the combo field made of? I understand the desire for a combo field, but you’re wielding a blunt object in one hand. I have no idea what it could really be that would make any sort of sense.

2. For Hammer #3, I get the idea, but we aren’t Thor, or Wulfgar. Having a greatsword boomerang is already a bit of a stretch, but throwing a hammer at someone and having it somehow pull them back just seems aesthetically silly. I’d also personally rather have the conal cripple, but if they could make the movement more like Mighty Blow for Guardians (where the character leaps forward and slams down, providing movement but still making sense from an animation perspective), then it would be less of a mobility liability.

3. I use Greatsword all the time, and I would be heavily bummed by those changes. To be honest, moving 100B just frees up another ability slot that I would use more frequently, and then I’d probably almost never, ever use 100B. The bummer lies in 4/5. Bladetrail already doesn’t seem to do a very good job of being a predictive projectile when targeting an enemy, so when I hit someone on the way out, I feel good. If that turned into my only means of gap closing, I’d be horrified. Not only that, Rush is incredible. I know you’re looking at tPvP, but the consequences of WvWvW and even PvE and I’d venture sPvP/tPvP mobility give me a sad. The fact that it doesn’t often hit is almost a non-issue. It’s the long range dash that is the key that adds really good mobility for the weapon. A block would be nice I suppose, but the weapon seems geared more towards mobility, and blocking is in stark opposition to that design philosophy.

4. For Hammer #4, I think I’m the only one in the world who isn’t bothered by the self-root. I use it to follow up after an Earthshaker for clearing people away from the area, or for predicting when someone will be attacking and having the knockback already swinging when they get to me. It has its place, but if they wanted to make it so you could move while knocking back, they’d have to change the animation completely, and maybe reduce the AoE as well (even though it already isn’t very big).

5. For the Longbow F1, when is the boon removal applied? Is it ticked immediately, then every 5 seconds? Or is the first tick of removal after 5 seconds of being down? If it’s the former, I’d be concerned that it would almost be too good, and if it’s the latter, I’d be concerned that it would almost be a nonfactor.

6. For Longbow #1, I feel like there are already infinite ways to cripple. Putting it on something spammable in any class feels lame. I’m not sure what the answer is to spice this one up, but I’d personally prefer just about anything else. Maybe they can apply 1 second of burning or something to tie the weapon into a condition damage/burn theme.