Guild Wars 2

glaphen.5230:

Zerker Engineers can do 10k in a Mine Field while removing 5 boons and 7k with a point blank Jump Shot which are easily castable in a 2 second stun.

This thread is about decap engineer, not zerker engineers!!!!

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

Bombs can take up the entire point so it isn’t exactly hard to hit unless your in WvW but this is the Spvp forums. I have no problem with BOB its a very balanced skill but Engineer has 4 instant CC skills and they have no counter play besides prediction or really long stability but its still impossible to get perma stability in Spvp.

Like I said before. Knockbacks can’t get you chain stunned/burst the way hammers can, so I think it’s fair that they’re instant cast. What are the other two instant CC skills are you talking about? The slicks shoes/mines thing? Those are VERY obvious tells. Pretty much in ANY case where an engi is trying to get near you is a sign to get away.

Overcharged shot is a 3 second knockdown and 450 knockback with an instant cast. Slick Shoes is an instant knock down, Magnetic Inversion is an instant knockback and Air Blast is an instant knockback.

Also to the other guy the reason I’m mentioning them is because he was talking about Engineer being unable to do good damage with those CC.

OK, but a decap engi is not going to be zerker. You can’t stay on point to decap it and knock people out when you are zerker.

glaphen.5230:

Overcharged shot is a 3 second knockdown and 450 knockback with an instant cast. Slick Shoes is an instant knock down, Magnetic Inversion is an instant knockback and Air Blast is an instant knockback.

Also to the other guy the reason I’m mentioning them is because he was talking about Engineer being unable to do good damage with those CC.

Yeah I already mentioned the shield and FT knockback. I forgot about rifle but my point still stands there because you also get knocked back so it’s not like you can really burst your target down after it and again there is distance between you and the target unlike with hammer knockdowns. Slicks Shoes is instant but like I said before, if an engi goes near you then it’s trouble. And if an engi gets you with slick shoes because you were meleeing him, is that not a fair defense?

You still havent explained how this is a real balance issue here. You can’t mess with engi CC to nerf bunker decap without hurting Engis overall. Or are you saying engi as a whole is imbalanced?

Lupanic.6502:

Divinity.8041:

what kind of build are you talking about? can someone link me?

are you talking about a bunker build?

0/0/20/30/20?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIq6Zn1yuF17IxoCdO0jCbf1K6R+tsjB-TgAgzCmIMSZkzIjRSjsGB

So, there’s no 3 secs block on 20/16 secs cooldown, no boon removal mines , and without Protection Injection, it’s easy to kill him with CC skills.

And if the engi bring [Bomb kit-flamethrower-Mine] or [Bomb-Flamethrower-Toolkit], he don’t get a break stun, and less heal, kill him with CC and win.
If he bring [Bomb kit- Tool kit- Elixir Gun], he only get one knockback on rifle, and BOB is easy to avoid it, so there’s no CC spam, but maybe heal/ block spam. So just like trying to kill a decap guard or a decap ranger(longbow knockback, greatsword knockback, or wolf fear), you should always need at least 2 ppl to kill a bunker.

I don’t know why ppl discuss like engi can bring 5 slot skills, a decap engi isn’t that strong unless you don’t know how to combat with him. There’s even one said a decap engi got 4 instant CC skills, how?

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

Overcharged shot is a 3 second knockdown and 450 knockback with an instant cast. Slick Shoes is an instant knock down, Magnetic Inversion is an instant knockback and Air Blast is an instant knockback.

Also to the other guy the reason I’m mentioning them is because he was talking about Engineer being unable to do good damage with those CC.

Yeah I already mentioned the shield and FT knockback. I forgot about rifle but my point still stands there because you also get knocked back so it’s not like you can really burst your target down after it and again there is distance between you and the target unlike with hammer knockdowns. Slicks Shoes is instant but like I said before, if an engi goes near you then it’s trouble. And if an engi gets you with slick shoes because you were meleeing him, is that not a fair defense?

You still havent explained how this is a real balance issue here. You can’t mess with engi CC to nerf bunker decap without hurting Engis overall. Or are you saying engi as a whole is imbalanced?

The self knockdown is only a second so you have 2 seconds of him being in knockdown while you aren’t. The problem is all those skills are instant and instant CC should not even exist in this game since there is 0 counter play. Engineer has no problems getting in melee range for Slick Shoes. Engineer as a whole is imbalanced with its instant CC/lack of animations and spammable AoE conditions with ridiculous survivability in the current two meta builds that every sheep is using.

Also they actually have more in the form of Accelerant-Packed Turrets giving instant CC per turret.

glaphen.5230:

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

Overcharged shot is a 3 second knockdown and 450 knockback with an instant cast. Slick Shoes is an instant knock down, Magnetic Inversion is an instant knockback and Air Blast is an instant knockback.

Also to the other guy the reason I’m mentioning them is because he was talking about Engineer being unable to do good damage with those CC.

Yeah I already mentioned the shield and FT knockback. I forgot about rifle but my point still stands there because you also get knocked back so it’s not like you can really burst your target down after it and again there is distance between you and the target unlike with hammer knockdowns. Slicks Shoes is instant but like I said before, if an engi goes near you then it’s trouble. And if an engi gets you with slick shoes because you were meleeing him, is that not a fair defense?

You still havent explained how this is a real balance issue here. You can’t mess with engi CC to nerf bunker decap without hurting Engis overall. Or are you saying engi as a whole is imbalanced?

The self knockdown is only a second so you have 2 seconds of him being in knockdown while you aren’t. The problem is all those skills are instant and instant CC should not even exist in this game since there is 0 counter play. Engineer has no problems getting in melee range for Slick Shoes. Engineer as a whole is imbalanced with its instant CC/lack of animations and spammable AoE conditions with ridiculous survivability in the current two meta builds that every sheep is using.

Also they actually have more in the form of Accelerant-Packed Turrets giving instant CC per turret.

Every sheep is using? Okay I see that you’re just mad.

glaphen.5230:

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

Overcharged shot is a 3 second knockdown and 450 knockback with an instant cast. Slick Shoes is an instant knock down, Magnetic Inversion is an instant knockback and Air Blast is an instant knockback.

Also to the other guy the reason I’m mentioning them is because he was talking about Engineer being unable to do good damage with those CC.

Yeah I already mentioned the shield and FT knockback. I forgot about rifle but my point still stands there because you also get knocked back so it’s not like you can really burst your target down after it and again there is distance between you and the target unlike with hammer knockdowns. Slicks Shoes is instant but like I said before, if an engi goes near you then it’s trouble. And if an engi gets you with slick shoes because you were meleeing him, is that not a fair defense?

You still havent explained how this is a real balance issue here. You can’t mess with engi CC to nerf bunker decap without hurting Engis overall. Or are you saying engi as a whole is imbalanced?

The self knockdown is only a second so you have 2 seconds of him being in knockdown while you aren’t. The problem is all those skills are instant and instant CC should not even exist in this game since there is 0 counter play. Engineer has no problems getting in melee range for Slick Shoes. Engineer as a whole is imbalanced with its instant CC/lack of animations and spammable AoE conditions with ridiculous survivability in the current two meta builds that every sheep is using.

Also they actually have more in the form of Accelerant-Packed Turrets giving instant CC per turret.

Well, what decap engi you are talking about? Engi can’t equip Rifle and Shield at tha same time. You can’t get Overcharged Shot and Magnetic Inversion together.

Review your post, you said engi can bring Bomb Kit, Flamethrower, Mine, Net Turret, Slick Shoes, what engi you met? Please define what engi you are talking about. Accelerant-Packed Turrets? What his traits? And it’s not worth to put it first and detonate it for just a knockback. You also just said zerker engi deals a lot of damage, is that a decap engi? That’s just a DPS build, but can easily be killed too.

Please stop complaining that you can’t kill engis easily, you don’t even know how engis play.

can someone please link build or stop talking

I want to understand game more, and troll more too.

No seriously, link me.

I never said they use them all together, the skills themselves are overpowered on their own for the fact they are instant with 0 counter play. Look at solo queue, 75% of Engineer are using bomb, grenade, and Tool Kit with a pistol/shield and spamming every skill possible. The other 23% is using Decap with rifle, flamethrower, bomb, and either Tool Kit or Throw Mine. 1.9% are using Accelerant-Packed Turrets and the other .1% must be non-existent since I just needed a percentage for the ones I haven’t seen. The age of Engineer taking any skill at all to play is over and now the spam and non-aggression play styles reigns supreme.

Haha. Considering that engis only have access to rifle or pistol is it any surprise that you’d see engis carry either one of those weapons? And then you go on to list pretty much every kit available. And that’s your argument that they’re OP?

Or maybe engis other skills like turrets and potions are not viable and so kits are pretty much the most used skills for ANY engi build?

Yeah the whole engi complaint has really gotten ridiculous. The bunker/de-cap build I can understand being problematic in the conquest game mode. But whining about engis in general? Ridiculous.

i didn’t see that much problem to counter a decap engy
i play decap engy when i run my engy seriously (and for fun i play other build XD) but when i play other character (necro MM or ranger or mesmer) its the same as play decap engy, push stun daze fear evade (i missed something?) just a L2P issue
u need to focus the right time to use ur skill/dodge to counter ur opponent (and hope ur connection dont obstacle u in that time)
i got some problem vs the evasive thief (evade evade evade evade how many evade can do) and bunker guardian (block block block wtf)
and ppl dont say a word on this 2 build, u see only engy who can swap fast theyr kits, but swap kist require skill and not only push 1 button for block/evade
u talk to animation, well look at the back of the engy (on topback on theyr head) and u can see the different bagpack, just knowing that u can predice what skill the engy can do
engy kit skills got 2-3 of cast time (not all skill got istacast), bomb skills got aoe mark, evading the first and stay not on the engy range, he must change kit for other counter
engy dont got stability push/stun him at 50% of life (he try to use HT for blastheal) and u counter the clean up conds, if the engy run EG he got only 1 stunbreak with 35s CD (more or less) fear chain, hammer chain can do the difference
decap engy make cond dmg and dindt hit to high just clean when u need and he never run u down of 60% of ur vital
2vs 1 decap engy its just a timing issue: 1 need to focus on dmg and the other 1 need to focus on CC the engy and when u see the engy drop life fast its time to go all 2 on dmg to finish him
at the end u can do the same thing on other decap class to (well thief if stealth cant cap a point)

How can people still fail to see how stupid that build is.

1. First off, there isn’t a single “decap engi” build. Each engineer has his own version with his own utilities and any of those builds have insane amounts of CCs: at least two knockbacks coming from Flamethrower, Big Bomb and Rifle/Shield on really low cooldown, along with high immob uptime and kittenload of survivability. Then there is a free slot and a couple of traits to play with to have further knockbacks.

2. You can’t burst an engineer down alone as long as he’s a bunker. If you haven’t stability on, it is the more time you’re CC’ed then the time you’re putting pressure on your enemy. Automated response is also a pain in the kitten because it makes pinning down the engineer impossible, so he is free to escape as long as he’s on low HP with, of course, perma swiftness. The issue is that while average bunkers are good only to defend nodes and to give buffs, that engineer is capable to run farpoint and contest it for the whole match even against 2 people. Now, have two engineers in your team camping the close node and the far node and you’ll realize that the match is won, unless the enemy team is made of 5 warriors, which isn’t usually the case.
3. The decap engi is pretty much the next FotM build. Run a couple of SoloQ matches and there are as much engies as there are warriors. That build is just insane and unhealthy for the meta, because it encourages people to play warrior for double stability even more, like they needed further encouragement to be played.
4. Other then CCs, the issue is that engineers can easily immobilize you offpoint with ease-to-access immobilization through rifle. Same applies to Supply Drop, which gives insane amount of immobilize thanks to net turret.

If you have no clue on how PvP works but you’re here just to defend your beloved profession, then just leave this topic.

glaphen.5230:

I never said they use them all together, the skills themselves are overpowered on their own for the fact they are instant with 0 counter play. Look at solo queue, 75% of Engineer are using bomb, grenade, and Tool Kit with a pistol/shield and spamming every skill possible. The other 23% is using Decap with rifle, flamethrower, bomb, and either Tool Kit or Throw Mine. 1.9% are using Accelerant-Packed Turrets and the other .1% must be non-existent since I just needed a percentage for the ones I haven’t seen. The age of Engineer taking any skill at all to play is over and now the spam and non-aggression play styles reigns supreme.

A [Bomb-Granade-Tool] 3 Kits engi is easy to counter, range weapon, condition(especially confusion), CC skill, and area retaliation, all of them works. It’s not that strong if he just spam skills. But that’s not important since this is a decap engi thread.

Those CC skills, you can dodge, evade, around-the-back, block, blind, stability, stay range, or CC the engi faster(if they don’t get BS skills), there’s a lot of way to counter play. Only if you don’t know what to do, just stay front of him and being controlled, then you feel there’s no counter play.
And the most important, there’s other class to do what decap engi could, like bunker ranger, get CC skills as much as engi, but with stronger condition removal and more protection by dodge, ranger even get more, 12 secs cooldown block from range, and Drakehound area immobilize every 16 secs with knockdown every 36 secs. Since the game mode makes us need to defend nodes, every bunker with decap skill should be involved.

Edited:
What decap ranger I said is just like this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJARTjEV91JWCWg2Bi2jMZJM9e0qY1eXhRVwmK-TgAgzCmIASBkDIDQyds7A

Greatsword is hard to counter, auto-attack got free evade. Counterattack (GS#4) is 12secs cooldown, if you attack in melee will being kicked out node, if you stay range, it will be a 3secs block, while pet keeps attacking you. Point Blink Shot (LB#4) is 15secs cooldown hard-to-see knockback skill. If he feels pressure, Ranger can use Hunter’s Shot(LB#3) to gain stealth and run. Krytan Drakehound area immobileze every 16 secs, Wolf area fear every 36 secs, and they both have knock down every 36 secs. This ranger clean a condition and trans 3 conditions to pet every 10 secs , hard to use condition to burn ranger’s HP. Trans CC skill to pet every 90 secs. Got passive heal and self-res, what more? You can gain protection from dodge and rune. It’s much harder to counter than a decap engi.

If you feel decap engi is ridiculously strong in conquest game mode, then every bunker with decap skill should be involved, not only decap engi.

This thread is really messy. It started out as a complaint thread about decap engis but starting to turn into a general “engi CC” is OP thread. It could be argued that decap engis are problematic in the current conquest game mode (I say it’s a more of a problem in the game mode itself and that the capture points should be bigger) but to argue that engi CC in general needs a nerf is ridiculous.

There IS counter play to the CC, it’s just not a simple dodge the CC when it’s telegraphed, it’s more about positioning yourself and anticipating when the CC will come, usually at critical moments such as before a burst or a defensive move. And stop acting like engis are the only profession with instant cast abilities.

Marsuew.8216:

glaphen.5230:

I never said they use them all together, the skills themselves are overpowered on their own for the fact they are instant with 0 counter play. Look at solo queue, 75% of Engineer are using bomb, grenade, and Tool Kit with a pistol/shield and spamming every skill possible. The other 23% is using Decap with rifle, flamethrower, bomb, and either Tool Kit or Throw Mine. 1.9% are using Accelerant-Packed Turrets and the other .1% must be non-existent since I just needed a percentage for the ones I haven’t seen. The age of Engineer taking any skill at all to play is over and now the spam and non-aggression play styles reigns supreme.

A [Bomb-Granade-Tool] 3 Kits engi is easy to counter, range weapon, condition(especially confusion), CC skill, and area retaliation, all of them works. It’s not that strong if he just spam skills. But that’s not important since this is a decap engi thread.

Those CC skills, you can dodge, evade, around-the-back, block, blind, stability, stay range, or CC the engi faster(if they don’t get BS skills), there’s a lot of way to counter play. Only if you don’t know what to do, just stay front of him and being controlled, then you feel there’s no counter play.
And the most important, there’s other class to do what decap engi could, like bunker ranger, get CC skills as much as engi, but with stronger condition removal and more protection by dodge, ranger even get more, 12 secs cooldown block from range, and Drakehound area immobilize every 16 secs with knockdown every 36 secs. Since the game mode makes us need to defend nodes, every bunker with decap skill should be involved.

Edited:
What decap ranger I said is just like this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJARTjEV91JWCWg2Bi2jMZJM9e0qY1eXhRVwmK-TgAgzCmIASBkDIDQyds7A

Greatsword is hard to counter, auto-attack got free evade. Counterattack (GS#4) is 12secs cooldown, if you attack in melee will being kicked out node, if you stay range, it will be a 3secs block, while pet keeps attacking you. Point Blink Shot (LB#4) is 15secs cooldown hard-to-see knockback skill. If he feels pressure, Ranger can use Hunter’s Shot(LB#3) to gain stealth and run. Krytan Drakehound area immobileze every 16 secs, Wolf area fear every 36 secs, and they both have knock down every 36 secs. This ranger clean a condition and trans 3 conditions to pet every 10 secs , hard to use condition to burn ranger’s HP. Trans CC skill to pet every 90 secs. Got passive heal and self-res, what more? You can gain protection from dodge and rune. It’s much harder to counter than a decap engi.

If you feel decap engi is ridiculously strong in conquest game mode, then every bunker with decap skill should be involved, not only decap engi.

lol @ decap ranger.
Have you at least tried what you’ve suggested or you’ve just came here, made up a build out of nowhere and claimed it is better than any meta decap engineer?

Made a new thread that should be more to the point and focussed on the real problem builds.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Decap-Engineer-In-Depth-Analysis/

I think you sentenced your thread to death before it was even conceived.

jebro.6370:

Bottom line is guys, why should it be taken out? is it because:

1, It has little to no use in team fights
2, Cant kill a kitten on its back waving a white flag
3, Its sole purpose is to decap

A guardian can bunker a point 1v2 for a matter of time, Isn’t that similar/the same?

Just because an engi has CC and knocks that make up for a use of utility or team support why should that get taken away? I have seen currently 1 team use it in streamed fights since its been around. Imho this is a spec which will slowly phase out but be changed here and there according to team makeup and personal fun/preference.

Whoever said this is similar to HamBow is also having a Giraffe. HamBow has sustained dps and survivability. Engi decapper has Survivability, CC and that’s it. If you die to this spec then your doing it wrong. Also if you run it in Skyhammer you’ve won, I understand that frustration all too well. Generally people don’t like a build they QQ until it goes away, personally id rather find a way to combat it and fight on, would a team bring in a decap engi over a more useful team player? i think no…

Hambow and Decap-Engineer are in the same boat skillwise. The problem of the decap-engineer doesn’t rely around high-tier-teams (because they know how to handle such a build good enough, or the opponent is too bad to take an advantage of it). It’s more about lower-tiered Teams. There a decap-engineer can cause advantage by taking out 2 players to kill it, while having a 3v4 teamfight on the mid-node.

The build doesn’t require much skill nor tactical knowledge, therefore is quite effective in the lower-tier. Also the build is not in any possible way fun to play against. Same goes for HamBow. Makes me sad that a shoutcaster doesn’t see any problem with this build.

isolatedchimp.2510:

There IS counter play to the CC, it’s just not a simple dodge the CC when it’s telegraphed, it’s more about positioning yourself and anticipating when the CC will come, usually at critical moments such as before a burst or a defensive move.

This reminds me “just dodge anticipate fear lel” from terror necros right after their ascension to meta.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jebro.6370:

Bottom line is guys, why should it be taken out? is it because:

1, It has little to no use in team fights
2, Cant kill a kitten on its back waving a white flag
3, Its sole purpose is to decap

A guardian can bunker a point 1v2 for a matter of time, Isn’t that similar/the same?

Just because an engi has CC and knocks that make up for a use of utility or team support why should that get taken away? I have seen currently 1 team use it in streamed fights since its been around. Imho this is a spec which will slowly phase out but be changed here and there according to team makeup and personal fun/preference.

Whoever said this is similar to HamBow is also having a Giraffe. HamBow has sustained dps and survivability. Engi decapper has Survivability, CC and that’s it. If you die to this spec then your doing it wrong. Also if you run it in Skyhammer you’ve won, I understand that frustration all too well. Generally people don’t like a build they QQ until it goes away, personally id rather find a way to combat it and fight on, would a team bring in a decap engi over a more useful team player? i think no…

Hambow and Decap-Engineer are in the same boat skillwise. The problem of the decap-engineer doesn’t rely around high-tier-teams (because they know how to handle such a build good enough, or the opponent is too bad to take an advantage of it). It’s more about lower-tiered Teams. There a decap-engineer can cause advantage by taking out 2 players to kill it, while having a 3v4 teamfight on the mid-node.

The build doesn’t require much skill nor tactical knowledge, therefore is quite effective in the lower-tier. Also the build is not in any possible way fun to play against. Same goes for HamBow. Makes me sad that a shoutcaster doesn’t see any problem with this build.

I had yesterday 2 decap engis in 2 games against me. I play soloQ with rank ~400 (EU).
I guess some people are jumping on a new build if they read it is very strong at the moment. It was no problem to kill them alone. It is like the ton of bad warriors or the solo DPS guardians after someone postet that he was #1 at soloQ.
The decap engi is a good weapon in a hand of a skilled engi player. But it is terrible in the hand of a warrior/thief/mesmer playing engi.

sorrow.2364:

If you have no clue on how PvP works but you’re here just to defend your beloved profession, then just leave this topic.

Comments like this are extremely non-constructive and make me wonder if you even know what you are talking about, especially after the comment about having more slots for more knockbacks after taking Flamethrower and Bomb Kit.

isolatedchimp.2510:

This thread is really messy. It started out as a complaint thread about decap engis but starting to turn into a general “engi CC” is OP thread.

Indeed. I’m glad someone made a new thread. Hopefully it can stay on topic better.

Rednik.3809:

This reminds me “just dodge anticipate fear lel” from terror necros right after their ascension to meta.

Except that’s not what I’m saying at all. In fact, the guy I’m replying to is saying that you can’t dodge those CC and I’m saying that dodging is NOT the counter but rather it is positioning that is the counter. Knockback has a very limited range so get the hell out of range during those crucial moments, such as getting a heal off. Time your bursts between knockbacks instead of blowing them all at once only to get CCed.

Engineer’s shtick, I think, revolves all around heavy, suppresive CC (IMO most of engie’s offensive power comes either from hybrid conditions, or CC conditions) and pretty okay support, kinda like counterpart to guardians (mid-high direct damage, and defensive capability). Changing AR to something else will return engies to their old regular roles. Also, increase node size as per said before.

At the extremes of building, the decap engineer can be obnoxious if not outright OP.
In most builds outside of PvP, you would never survive with such a build.
The premise is I can knock you off a point and have a huge number of immobilizes if that is how I want to spec. I won’t kill you easily of course, but I will decap.

Some of the largest offending traits are things like accelerant packed turrets, which is great for a new player in PvE and just fine in WvW, but is ripe for overkill in PvP.

On the other hand, the decap engineer has a critical weakness in that he can easily be “decapped” from a point by having almost certainly no stability. Just toss him off. Some classes can’t and that is frustrating for them. You play more Sumo style pushing off point than killing.

Some tweaks to taking EVERYTHING that can cc or knockback might be in order for this mode of play. Overall, it is about avoiding the cumulative effect. But, it isn’t game breaking nor is it unbalanced in any mode that is not PvP so gentle tweaking makes more sense.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Rednik.3809:

This reminds me “just dodge anticipate fear lel” from terror necros right after their ascension to meta.

Except that’s not what I’m saying at all. In fact, the guy I’m replying to is saying that you can’t dodge those CC and I’m saying that dodging is NOT the counter but rather it is positioning that is the counter. Knockback has a very limited range so get the hell out of range during those crucial moments, such as getting a heal off. Time your bursts between knockbacks instead of blowing them all at once only to get CCed.

You realize the points are all way less than 300 range and an Engineer standing in the middle will hit you either way so theres no actual way to position yourself in a way to avoid it besides standing outside of the point, you know, where they kittening are trying to get you to go in the first place.

Great tread

soloQ now full with idiots playing this bullkitten

seriously

glaphen.5230:

isolatedchimp.2510:

Rednik.3809:

This reminds me “just dodge anticipate fear lel” from terror necros right after their ascension to meta.

Except that’s not what I’m saying at all. In fact, the guy I’m replying to is saying that you can’t dodge those CC and I’m saying that dodging is NOT the counter but rather it is positioning that is the counter. Knockback has a very limited range so get the hell out of range during those crucial moments, such as getting a heal off. Time your bursts between knockbacks instead of blowing them all at once only to get CCed.

You realize the points are all way less than 300 range and an Engineer standing in the middle will hit you either way so theres no actual way to position yourself in a way to avoid it besides standing outside of the point, you know, where they kittening are trying to get you to go in the first place.

Oh for kitten’s sake. The same could be said for ANYTHING in the game then. Pretty much any skill or mechanic will destroy you if you insist on staying inside the point and within range of those skills and mechanics.

You realize that you should momentarily position yourself outside the point right? Other than facing a decap engi, this shouldn’t be problematic against any other build or profession. I mean I don’t see you crying about having to leave a point if any other profession puts an AOE on the point.

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

isolatedchimp.2510:

Rednik.3809:

This reminds me “just dodge anticipate fear lel” from terror necros right after their ascension to meta.

Except that’s not what I’m saying at all. In fact, the guy I’m replying to is saying that you can’t dodge those CC and I’m saying that dodging is NOT the counter but rather it is positioning that is the counter. Knockback has a very limited range so get the hell out of range during those crucial moments, such as getting a heal off. Time your bursts between knockbacks instead of blowing them all at once only to get CCed.

You realize the points are all way less than 300 range and an Engineer standing in the middle will hit you either way so theres no actual way to position yourself in a way to avoid it besides standing outside of the point, you know, where they kittening are trying to get you to go in the first place.

Oh for kitten’s sake. The same could be said for ANYTHING in the game then. Pretty much any skill or mechanic will destroy you if you insist on staying inside the point and within range of those skills and mechanics.

You realize that you should momentarily position yourself outside the point right? Other than facing a decap engi, this shouldn’t be problematic against any other build or profession. I mean I don’t see you crying about having to leave a point if any other profession puts an AOE on the point.

Because other AoE skills from other professions are more balanced with things like cooldowns or animations. The current bomb, grenade spam builds have endless AoE with no difference in appearance between abilities besides Poison Grenade and Freeze Grenade which are instant when thrown at your feet. Getting off the point to dodge bomb spam sure is fun when he could just be spamming normal bombs or maybe its Concussion Bomb, who the kitten knows till it goes off.

When do you momentarily leave the kittening point to dodge their instant knockbacks because it makes sense to get off the point yourself instead of letting them push you off it. Good job getting off the point and letting him decap it and let him keep his knockbacks off cooldown since your stupidity let you do his job for him.

All problems with Engineer or AoE in general currently could be solved with huge points like the middle point in Legacy of the Foefire so their brainless spam can be moved away from.

Endless AOE. Nice hyperbole since they all have cooldowns as well. And I thought you were complaining about CC? Poison is not CC.

I mean do you think a regular engi stays inside the point at ALL times when fighting something like a Hambow warror? No, he’s going to get out of the point at times momentarily. You act as if though getting out of the point at all is an act against humanity.

Again, I can see the problem with decap engis when it comes to capture points but you are complaining regular engis and their CC and you seem unwilling to use positioning to counter it. I wondered why so I checked your post history. Turns out you’re a warrior who probably is incapable of doing anything but stick to his target in melee range.

Anyway, it looks like you’re in the minority when it comes to complaints about non-decap engis. Most players here only have an issue with the decap bunker version. Good luck with your warrior, I think I’ll quit this discussion with you.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Endless AOE. Nice hyperbole since they all have cooldowns as well. And I thought you were complaining about CC? Poison is not CC.

I mean do you think a regular engi stays inside the point at ALL times when fighting something like a Hambow warror? No, he’s going to get out of the point at times momentarily. You act as if though getting out of the point at all is an act against humanity.

Again, I can see the problem with decap engis when it comes to capture points but you are complaining regular engis and their CC and you seem unwilling to use positioning to counter it. I wondered why so I checked your post history. Turns out you’re a warrior who probably is incapable of doing anything but stick to his target in melee range.

Anyway, it looks like you’re in the minority when it comes to complaints about non-decap engis. Most players here only have an issue with the decap bunker version. Good luck with your warrior, I think I’ll quit this discussion with you.

Actually you are wrong I play Thief in Spvp mainly and going outside of the point is an act against humanity in a game based around capturing and holding points. Leaving the point to get out of Combustive Shot and let him cap the point is a terrible move and Combustive Shot is pretty much a slower ticking Fire Bomb. You also seem to forget that they have their first skills that can be spammed endlessly and still apply bleeding and burning from traits possibly.

Please tell me your magical counter position that stops all Engineers instant CC besides staying 600+ range away which is actually the counter but giving him the point for it is pretty much as bad a being knockbacked and screws your team more than fighting on the point and dying to him if you don’t die in 5 seconds. As I said I would have no problem with Engineers if points were as big as the middle part of Foefire but as they are now their spam is as big as every other point and their instant CC give unstoppable decaps in 1 vs 1s.

hambows counter decap engi’s pretty hard core as they have plenty of cc (remember decap engi lacks stability and stun breaks) and they apply more damage pressure than a decap engi does. So that engi is going to die trying to hold that point against a hambow warrior who plays with any skill.

glaphen.5230:

isolatedchimp.2510:

Endless AOE. Nice hyperbole since they all have cooldowns as well. And I thought you were complaining about CC? Poison is not CC.

I mean do you think a regular engi stays inside the point at ALL times when fighting something like a Hambow warror? No, he’s going to get out of the point at times momentarily. You act as if though getting out of the point at all is an act against humanity.

Again, I can see the problem with decap engis when it comes to capture points but you are complaining regular engis and their CC and you seem unwilling to use positioning to counter it. I wondered why so I checked your post history. Turns out you’re a warrior who probably is incapable of doing anything but stick to his target in melee range.

Anyway, it looks like you’re in the minority when it comes to complaints about non-decap engis. Most players here only have an issue with the decap bunker version. Good luck with your warrior, I think I’ll quit this discussion with you.

Actually you are wrong I play Thief in Spvp mainly and going outside of the point is an act against humanity in a game based around capturing and holding points. Leaving the point to get out of Combustive Shot and let him cap the point is a terrible move and Combustive Shot is pretty much a slower ticking Fire Bomb. You also seem to forget that they have their first skills that can be spammed endlessly and still apply bleeding and burning from traits possibly.

Please tell me your magical counter position that stops all Engineers instant CC besides staying 600+ range away which is actually the counter but giving him the point for it is pretty much as bad a being knockbacked and screws your team more than fighting on the point and dying to him if you don’t die in 5 seconds. As I said I would have no problem with Engineers if points were as big as the middle part of Foefire but as they are now their spam is as big as every other point and their instant CC give unstoppable decaps in 1 vs 1s.

The fact that you can’t even go out of the point for even a second makes you a bad player. And you are supposed to make the engineer go out of the point as well. Only bad players think they just fight mindlessly inside a circle.

The reason why a decap engi is bad is not just because it has CC but because it has huge survivability which enables it to ignore opponent’s attempts at getting it off the point. Regular engis cannot ignore such attempts because they don’t have the survivability.

So you’re telling me that as a thief that you have no way to make ANY opponent get off a point? Seriously?

I mean everyone else’s complaints are about the decap engi because it cannot be unseated from the point. While your complaints are about ANY engi because you can’t just camp inside the point indefinitely against one. You see the irony here?

I just don’t know how one tries to make a point about balance with animations then mentions bombs, which have a delay in detonation, and follows with grenades, which decap engis do not use, in the same sentence and expects to be taken seriously.

glaphen.5230:

You also seem to forget that they have their first skills that can be spammed endlessly and still apply bleeding and burning from traits possibly.

Only more proof of why not to take you seriously. The traits that apply bleeding and burning are not going to be found on a decap engineer.

Not on 10/0/30/30/0, not on 0/0/30/30/10, not on even 10/0/30/20/10 or 10/0/20/30/10.

Alright I really don’t think either of you play anything but hot join and just don’t understand how conquest mode works so arguing is futile.

LOL. Good way to avoid discussion when you have nothing left.

Arguing with points you don’t understand doesn’t work unfortunately.

glaphen.5230:

Arguing with points you don’t understand doesn’t work unfortunately.

Irooooonnnnny.

You didn’t even understand that making my point that much more obvious.

As a thief, why are you even on your home point fighting a decap engi by yourself that you gotta stay in the point? Please tell me since I clearly do not understand conquest mode.

I speak for my allies who constantly need 3 people to take down one decap Engineer all game long besides the fact that I run a bunker Thief.

glaphen.5230:

I speak for my allies who constantly need 3 people to take down one decap Engineer all game long besides the fact that I run a bunker Thief.

I’m confused. Because you’ve been crying about engi CC in general this whole time but now you seem to be backtracking and talking about decap engis now.

And as others have pointed out, you keep making up builds that can’t possibly exist due to limitations in number of slots and traits and talking as though there are heavy damage dealing decapping bunker engis. One example is where you whine about slick shoes/mine engis hitting you for 10k damage.

You seriously can’t keep your stories straight here.

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

I speak for my allies who constantly need 3 people to take down one decap Engineer all game long besides the fact that I run a bunker Thief.

I’m confused. Because you’ve been crying about engi CC in general this whole time but now you seem to be backtracking and talking about decap engis now.

And as others have pointed out, you keep making up builds that can’t possibly exist due to limitations in number of slots and traits and talking as though there are heavy damage dealing decapping bunker engis. One example is where you whine about slick shoes/mine engis hitting you for 10k damage.

You seriously can’t keep your stories straight here.

Once again you don’t even read my posts as I already said I wasn’t complaining about that combo I was showing that they did have damage possibilities with that CC since its instant with no animations to you since you kittening said they didn’t like a Warrior/Guardian can. Tell me again where I mention a build besides grenade/bomb/Tool kit with pistol/shield and flamethrower/bomb/Tool Kit or Throw Mine with rifle. I’ve been complaining about the lack of animations and spamming of AoEs in those two meta builds that are the only thing played by Engineers.

glaphen.5230:

isolatedchimp.2510:

glaphen.5230:

I speak for my allies who constantly need 3 people to take down one decap Engineer all game long besides the fact that I run a bunker Thief.

I’m confused. Because you’ve been crying about engi CC in general this whole time but now you seem to be backtracking and talking about decap engis now.

And as others have pointed out, you keep making up builds that can’t possibly exist due to limitations in number of slots and traits and talking as though there are heavy damage dealing decapping bunker engis. One example is where you whine about slick shoes/mine engis hitting you for 10k damage.

You seriously can’t keep your stories straight here.

Once again you don’t even read my posts as I already said I wasn’t complaining about that combo I was showing that they did have damage possibilities with that CC since its instant with no animations to you since you kittening said they didn’t like a Warrior/Guardian can. Tell me again where I mention a build besides grenade/bomb/Tool kit with pistol/shield and flamethrower/bomb/Tool Kit or Throw Mine with rifle. I’ve been complaining about the lack of animations and spamming of AoEs in those two meta builds that are the only thing played by Engineers.

You weren’t complaining? Could have fooled me. But yeah I’m tired of this so I’ll just let it go.

Once again you prove you cannot read since I already said twice now and this makes a third time this thread that I have said I have no problem with Minefield. Just gonna copy paste the next part since I’m tired of writing it. I’ve been complaining about the lack of animations and spamming of AoEs in those two meta builds that are the only thing played by Engineers.

And I suggest that you go read the new thread and see why everything you’ve said is wrong. But please don’t go polluting that thread with your nonsense.

glaphen.5230:

isolatedchimp.2510:

Rednik.3809:

This reminds me “just dodge anticipate fear lel” from terror necros right after their ascension to meta.

Except that’s not what I’m saying at all. In fact, the guy I’m replying to is saying that you can’t dodge those CC and I’m saying that dodging is NOT the counter but rather it is positioning that is the counter. Knockback has a very limited range so get the hell out of range during those crucial moments, such as getting a heal off. Time your bursts between knockbacks instead of blowing them all at once only to get CCed.

You realize the points are all way less than 300 range and an Engineer standing in the middle will hit you either way so theres no actual way to position yourself in a way to avoid it besides standing outside of the point, you know, where they kittening are trying to get you to go in the first place.

o.O just run in the middle of a node and dodge (and if u got stability its a easy run)
with necro MM (no stability) work well the fear chain and golem kcnok but necro dont do dmg to kill the engy and same for engy who cant kill me, a friend help me to kill him (ele DD) just take some strategy and team work

Again…a decap engi with just an half brain (Not skilled just a bit aware about what his keys do) would decap pretty much everything (Expec at forest and temple) and looking at ppl suggesting to use ranged attacks (Yeah if you have to go outside point by yourself just leave that point already) or bringing another one to 2v1 him are just clueless about how tpvp works…if you’re decapped he already won, if you must go 2v1 every time in order to keep your point he already won (Since you’re going to loose 3v4 somewhere else) …if you want i can draw down a brief scheme since someone apparently can’t still get the point of this thread here…bunkers, like guardian, are made to hold capped points and support not to go far with cleric, perma-knockback someone and then trolling there forever forcing 2 ppl out of teamfights…that’s the point…that’s just stupid like it was during “troll mode rtl and back on contesting far point forever” eles long time ago…