Guild Wars 2

What bothers me the most is that if you have a guardian or warrior playing decap bunkers, no one bats an eye. But if an engi does it the whole world just flips out.

Also, this idea that “a build that is too effective with a low learning curve is broken” is bogus too. I guess if a brand new car is too easy to drive, we should add some extra wheels and buttons to make it harder to drive. This is a great way to improve accessibility.

Chesed.2890:

What bothers me the most is that if you have a guardian or warrior playing decap bunkers, no one bats an eye. But if an engi does it the whole world just flips out.

Also, this idea that “a build that is too effective with a low learning curve is broken” is bogus too. I guess if a brand new car is too easy to drive, we should add some extra wheels and buttons to make it harder to drive. This is a great way to improve accessibility.

because warrior and guardian don´t have anything like this

and build is not broken cause build is toooo effective

it is broken cause you can play it while watching tv
just run to far node and dodge around like idiot and spam all buttons for atleast 15 seconds

when die do it again

this build made me stop pvp now or i would get banned for raging^^

Last Match:

3 Engineers
1 Necro
1 Ranger

Map: Skyhammer

Result: The most kittening infuriating match I have ever played….I am sure the 1 year span it will take for the programmers to remove the map and fix the CC issues in the game, then it will still not be worth playing.

This has just been ignorance and incompetence on the side of whoever is in control of balance in this game, each patch, each day, each disappointment.

Basically engi bunker decap build is too good to decap a point and to hard to kill in 1vs1, so in a conquest mode this is a big problem.

What i’ll do (without change any CD):

Air Blast – improve animation (more readable) and add a little timecast
Net Shot -improve animation (more readable) and add a little timecast
Overcharged Shot – improve animation (more readable)

MarkPhilips.5169:

Basically engi bunker decap build is too good to decap a point and to hard to kill in 1vs1, so in a conquest mode this is a big problem.

What i’ll do (without change any CD):

Air Blast – improve animation (more readable) and add a little timecast
Net Shot -improve animation (more readable) and add a little timecast
Overcharged Shot – improve animation (more readable)

How can you improve animation for instant skill? He just pressing button and bam, you flying.

I love how there is such huge variation in decap engie that you can’t just nerf 3 skills and think its fixed. Engies will just move a different cc skill and yes we got a lot of em so you can’t just nerf em all. However you can just…make circles bigger.

I main engi since beta, got about 3500 games.

Haven’t played much decap engi tough. But the times i played i was nearly invincible.

Like said it’s hard to nerf decap engi without hurting the other engi builds, because you can play:

0 0 30 30 10 , 0 0 20 30 20, 10 0 15 30 15, 10 0 30 30 0 , 0 0 10 30 30 and probably more.

1. In my opinion one big problem is definitely Automated response in combination with the soldiers amulet (it triggers at about 6,5k HP). You can easily keep yourself alive with healing turret because you can heal in 2 steps.
→ Automated response otherwise is kittened and imo bad skill. Only helps vs necs and condi engis (without grenades). It only works well with soldiers, if you play it in a condition build good ppl will just condispike you before 25%.
→ Imo it should be removed or changed. Change should apply to all condition immunities. There shouldn’t be a condition immunity. I would like a 95% reduction of condition duration and immunity to condition damage. So that you can land a skilled blind or fear to get away or interrupt.

2. Automated medical response; In my opinion this is what makes decap engi so strong. It is the 15 trait in inventions and recharges your healskill at 25% all 90 seconds. It’s just too strong. I use it in my condition dmg build, but I think it should be changed. Decap engis would have alot lesss survive.

3. The meta; This is the biggest “problem”. Decap engi works so well because of this meta. You die really fast against a thief + mesmer, but can hold 2 warriors quite long. This is because of the many blocks and the ability to kite warriors also with knockbacks and immobilizes, also weakness on elixirgun kittens up most warriors making them unable to kill you. Most decap engis run protection injection and the trait which gives you 20% dmg reduction when knocked etc. So basically you get 45% less dmg when you are knocked or stunned which basically everyone does in this meta (pistolwhip, hambow in every comp).
—> remember not to stun or knock (or sink, float, fear) a decap engi or you will deal about half of your damage. Send classes with high dmg who dont need to stun (thief autoattack, mes, ele without using knocks, eviscerate warrior, etc.)

4. If you know how to counter it, it’s a bad specc; I recognized this while playing it. We where about top 70 with me playing decap engi. Watch quit vs votf ESl game on youtube. You will see votf struggle in the beginning, but as soon as they know how to deal with the decap engi he is just useless and gives them a free 5 point kill. Also depending on the map (khylo, waterfall on legacy) it’s really hard to decap good players (especially warriors) if they know their positioning.
But beneath this there are too many people who not know how to deal with decap engi and it’s just a kittened specc…

5. Killing it:

Remember,

- a decap engi has 2 dodges, an additional one with energy sigil, maybe he has vigor.
- most decap engis have 1 block (toolkit) 16 seconds recharge or 20, 3 seconds block
- almost every decap engi gets less dmg 33% at least or 45% if you knock, stun, fear, launch him.
- decap engis rely kitten knockbacks for their survive (and blind). So activate zerker and stability when he has about 70% hp, DONT knock him and DPS him down with another player. (wait for after the block)
- Know that most decap engis will have their heal recharged at 25% hp. This is the time where you’ll have to knock him. You’ll know as soon as you see “immune” that his heal should now be recharged (90 seconds cooldown remember)

CC skills aren’t the biggest problem, bunker builds are. Get rid of the bunker nonsense (including guardians) and the game will be a lot more fun than it currently is.
If you could melt the decap engie really fast in 2vs1 you wouldn’t mind the amount of cc that much.

Personally I never find it fun to either play bunkers or against bunkers, there should be some limit as to how much you can stay alive while being useless in pretty much every other way. Look at the standard guardian bunker build and tell me there isn’t a problem. You press a single key to cast something like stand your ground and you : heal yourself, gain stability, retaliation, convert a condition to a boon and remove another condition all at the same time, break stun, on a stupidly low cooldown. This isn’t the style of gameplay PVP should be about. Decap engie, bunker guard etc are just facerolling on the keyboard while being an eternal annoyance on a control point.

Keep the cc, it can be part of good gameplay (but maybe give a bit more visual cues to things like the flamethrower knock), what should be done is to get rid of all the bunker builds for good.

Also there is another question to ask or another thing people should be aware of;

This meta is so broken, that the only really viable build on engineer is a fullbunker, because every other thing kills you on a normal build. (you can win 1v1s against certain classes, but condi engi is not viable in top tier)

When my team played with me as “normal” engi we struggled hard, and I couldn’t be the closepoint defender I once was, because I couldn’t win 1v1s as reliably as before (and couldn’t hold 2v1s long enough anymore). All because of the meta changes and powercreep. I then started playing more tanky variants leading to a fullbunker in the end and after that to a decaper.

yeh, engi decapper is quite effective in this game mode, and gets super effective against players that dont know how to counter it. There are some good players that know how to position themselves to not have to worry about engi’s knockbacks.
This can be done on some side point in these maps:
khylo: there are boxes and a little parapet, on both points.
legacy: also here there are 2 structures that can be used to prevent knockbacks.

for other points, blinds, stability, and cc can quite counter the decapper. Actually since engis usually dont have stability the thing that could work better against a decapper is a decapper with access to stability and/or blinds

if a warrior is coming for close and kill the guy on the spot nobody gives a kitten. If an engi is coming for close and just decap everything is wrong

Lupanic.6502:

if a warrior is coming for close and kill the guy on the spot nobody gives a kitten. If an engi is coming for close and just decap everything is wrong

Warriors have their own set of issues that everyone already knows is a problem.

Rednik.3809:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Basically engi bunker decap build is too good to decap a point and to hard to kill in 1vs1, so in a conquest mode this is a big problem.

What i’ll do (without change any CD):

Air Blast – improve animation (more readable) and add a little timecast
Net Shot -improve animation (more readable) and add a little timecast
Overcharged Shot – improve animation (more readable)

How can you improve animation for instant skill? He just pressing button and bam, you flying.

Add a little timecast=skill no more instant

1/2s o 3/4s like the new pin down for wars (in the next balance patch)

And of course, change AR, it’s a very bad designed trait

Too many kbs with too short cd and ar..nerf those and decrap engi is done without hurting other engi’s specs…

Archaon.6245:

Too many kbs with too short cd and ar..nerf those and decrap engi is done without hurting other engi’s specs…

The knockbacks are pretty much needed for engis overall viability. Nerfing them is a terrible idea.

Just remove/completly redesign AR, that will be enough to get decap engis done.
Just try it and play a decap engi without AR, its pointless if build for decap + bunkering.

Basically, you can’t nerf the cc skills on a class that has poor access to stability without affecting it’s viability in all builds, which is why people who actually play engineer suggest changes to the AR trait.

I like the idea of increasing the radius of capture points. It’ll deter decap builds and require more focus on positioning. As it stands now, it appears simple to knock an enemy off a point from almost any region of the capture point. I like Legacy of Foefire’s middle point (The Graveyard), it allows for an interesting team fight or even small skirmishes. I don’t know if the increase should be that big, but it is a good example of a favored enlarged capture point.

solo Q is dead (difference in rewards to thank for that),
everyone just joins team Q solo now,
and when your rank rises you keep getting premades.
it kills your soul to repeatedly play against teams of clones with the exact same build and team composition as the last shameful idiots you played against.
1 decap engi cone,
2 hambow clones,
1 PW spamming clone,
and one extra of any of the above.
seriously, anyone who plays this is skill-less, shameful and straight up ruins the game.
it is also shameful for Anet, who have left these builds like this for longer than i can remember, at this point it feels like this vile filth meta has always been here…

OK anet we get your lovely little teases about some magical feature build in the distant future, but COME ON.
don’t make us wait until then, you’re losing players by the day due to this insanity.

I don’t see any difference between this or any other bunker build! just let him rot there and take his home point!

And i am really sick of ppl on this forum bunch off QQ cry baby f……

Duka.5864:

I don’t see any difference between this or any other bunker build! just let him rot there and take his home point!

Yes, I too am illiterate. Do you want to make a club? We’ll call it the “People who neither read the OP nor play the game but post anyway” club.

You’ll cowards don’t even stack stability.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Basically engi bunker decap build is too good to decap a point and to hard to kill in 1vs1, so in a conquest mode this is a big problem.

What i’ll do (without change any CD):

Air Blast – improve animation (more readable) and add a little timecast
Net Shot -improve animation (more readable) and add a little timecast
Overcharged Shot – improve animation (more readable)

Air Blast – I also use this to deflect projectiles. Adding a cast time will make this kittened.
Net Shot – You can SEE the net flying at you. Git gud.
Overcharged Shot – If you see an Engineer with a Rifle running up into your grill, THEY ARE GOING TO OCSHOT YOU.

In summation — Git gud.

Liewec.2896:

solo Q is dead (difference in rewards to thank for that),
everyone just joins team Q solo now,
and when your rank rises you keep getting premades.
it kills your soul to repeatedly play against teams of clones with the exact same build and team composition as the last shameful idiots you played against.
1 decap engi cone,
2 hambow clones,
1 PW spamming clone,
and one extra of any of the above.
seriously, anyone who plays this is skill-less, shameful and straight up ruins the game.
it is also shameful for Anet, who have left these builds like this for longer than i can remember, at this point it feels like this vile filth meta has always been here…

OK anet we get your lovely little teases about some magical feature build in the distant future, but COME ON.
don’t make us wait until then, you’re losing players by the day due to this insanity.

It would be nicer if at least we got better rewards for more difficult rank matches. But no….everyone gets the same. What’s the point of being more skillful then since everyone has the same 50% win ratio….

As others have pointed out, nerfing the engineer CC is not the right way to nerf decap engis since that will severely hurt any non decap engis unnecessarily. Without effective CC, any non bunker engi is going to be way too defenseless.

The problem is that the decap engi is more than the sum of all it’s parts. The CC, the toughness, health, condi immunity, and healing put together is a bit much. But I do think AR is one of the biggest culprits in this because it benefits builds with big health pools and pretty much useless with glassy builds since you can be condispiked or just plain outdamaged at 25% health when you have a small pool of health to begin with.