Guild Wars 2

Since Grouch closed the thread below and it seems as if Automated Response has been deemed the main culprit for why this build has been so problematic, I am going to repost this here, as I strongly feel it is a mistake. I was also editing my post back and forth as I wasn’t happy with the wording in my first draft(s).

Decap Engineer

Let’s try to identify what needs to be changed by actually looking at what makes the build so problematic:

1. It decaps nodes too quickly and thus gets around the whole concept of having to kill players who are actually controlling the map and defending their nodes in an adequate manner
2. It survives long enough to make it worthwhile in terms of net point gain

Now, as problematic as Automated Response is in itself, being able to survive for an extended amount of time is certainly nothing unique to the engineer class (other classes and builds can achieve similar levels of resilience against attackers), which is why you don’t see other classes circumvent the whole conquest mechanic and flip point generation in their favor almost at a whim.

The obvious answer to balancing the decap engineer build is to prevent it from decapping the node so much quicker than everyone else and as quickly as only they currently can.
How anyone would not see that as the first measure to be applied in order to rein in the build is beyond me.
Now guildwars 2 has opted for a system where CC has no diminishing returns. If I had a say in it, this would change immediately, because in my opinion there’s no room for prolonged CCs in a game as fast paced as guildwars 2. Especially since back to back CCs can very well hit you right as you used your stun break to break free out of the first, thus nullifying your stun break completely.

Since diminishing returns are probably not going to be considered, though, the next best option to address the issue at hand specifically would be to change the knockback and blowout skills, as node control is such an integral part of conquest.

The least intrusive suggestion I can come up with is to alter how knockbacks and blowouts work mechanically. These abilities are meant to push back foes, instead they act as a push back on top of a knockdown, making them clearly superior to knockdowns (a mechanic that is already present in this game) for no apparent reason.

TLDR: Blowouts and knockbacks should be changed to only push foes back without actually knocking them down as well, which is what allows this build to use abilities that keep the opponent off the node for an extended amount of time, because they are incapacitated.

Feel free to remove the thread, if you still think you have gathered enough feedback, however.

1) It decaps nodes really fast.

2) It easily takes 3x or 4x that time to kill them. It also requires 2 of your players.

3) Meanwhile the other team is outnumbering at mid and they are generating more points/second.

4) Once you lose mid there’s no hope. You cannot leave your home undefended since the decap engi will go again and again. You cannot outnumber mid/far and even if you get the kills the enemy team keeps respawning and you lose because of the time.

tldr;
Decap engi is not overpowered, but it abuses all the flaws of the conquest game mode and destroys the fun to everyone.

No, the least intrusive change would be to change/delete AR. Non decap engineers are not problematic in any meta so changing anything else other than AR is unnecessarily screwing with the profession. AR abuse is only unique to decap builds because of it’s 25% mechanic benefiting high health/toughness builds far more so than glassier builds. So it’s the logical choice to nerf without screwing up any non decap build. Besides, immunity to anything is stupid. It should be nerfed anyway.

Marcos.3690:

1) It decaps nodes really fast.

Agreed.

Marcos.3690:

2) It easily takes 3x or 4x that time to kill them. It also requires 2 of your players.

Did you ever try to bring some power damage in your setup, sir? Or you’re playing only faceroll condition specs? AR “counters” only stupid full-condi builds and braindead bunkers without stability or CC.

Lets say, I want to nerf all condi builds, because i think that they’re too strong and not involve any skill to play with. You will suggest me just to take more condition cleansing and be happy.
Now, when you want to nerf AR, i suggest you to bring power spec instead of condition spec (especially when you keep in mind that AR procs only when engi have less than 5-6k hp).
Your answer?

The idea is:
You take AR → it counters stupid players with condition builds which can’t even apply their most powerful conditions right before engi drops to his 25% and just mindlessly spam their skills.
You use condition build → it counters actually not that stupid players which are not using condition cleansing and they can rely mostly on surprise effect.

So, ANY NERFS TO ANTI-CONDITION TRAITS/SKILLS SHOULD ONLY APPEAR IN PAIR WITH NERFS TO CONDITION SPAM SPECS.

I’ll also quote Daishi:

Nerf AR and other passive hard counters, Evade spam, CC Spam, and sustained healing.

Nerf Condi duration

Majority of Balance achieved. → Things brought more in line, watch meta shift and then focus from there.

All these changes coming in one patch would be fine.

@OP

The reason why people (including me) are focusing on AR is because its a trait that is fundamental to the success of a decap engineer. You cant nerf cc on engineers for your will hurt a lot of builds.

I honestly wonder if you ever fought a decap engineer without AR. People seem to forget that every class uses conditions and the condition immunity prevents any class from applying them. For allot of power based classes there are conditions such as cripple and immobilize which are critical for hitting their targets consistently. AR prevents both power and condi builds to get a grip on the engineer when it drops below 25% hp.

From my point of view one could do great things with this trait. It could be changed in many ways to help engineers against conditions (which are their greatest weakness in all builds (except decap))

RaZaC.1963:

@OP

The reason why people (including me) are focusing on AR is because its a trait that is fundamental to the success of a decap engineer. You cant nerf cc on engineers for your will hurt a lot of builds.

I honestly wonder if you ever fought a decap engineer without AR. People seem to forget that every class uses conditions and the condition immunity prevents any class from applying them. For allot of power based classes there are conditions such as cripple and immobilize which are critical for hitting their targets consistently. AR prevents both power and condi builds to get a grip on the engineer when it drops below 25% hp.

From my point of view one could do great things with this trait. It could be changed in many ways to help engineers against conditions (which are their greatest weakness in all builds (except decap))

I still don’t see how nerfing AR is going to address the issue that decap engineers can “neut” the node so easily. Being hard to take down because of AR or other means is only an issue, because you are fighting on a node that generates no points.

We don’t see any other resilient builds waste their time on a enemy captured node, because they simply do not have the means to kill their opponents quickly or force a neut.

We can clearly identify the issue here (neutralizing a node, which is almost equivalent to generating points, because your opponent is not and most matches will go to 500), so why do we not address this issue head on rather than looking at another issue that is only presenting itself as a consequence?

The fact that engineers decap quickly in a 1v1 is not a problem. They have been able to do this from the start of the game it was not a problem then. But since people have started to adopt builds where they abuse broken traits such as AR it has become a problem.

RaZaC.1963:

The fact that engineers decap quickly in a 1v1 is not a problem. They have been able to do this from the start of the game it was not a problem then. But since people have started to adopt builds where they abuse broken traits such as AR it has become a problem.

And AR has been in the game for as long as we can remember as well. I get the issues with AR in itself, but why are people insisting on making this about AR?

Do we call them “AR Engis”? No, we call them “decap engis”.

Whether their survivability is a result of overperforming traits or not is inconsequential, because we all know that just surviving on a node is something that can be done by many different builds. It’s only a problem if they can take a node from you at will and then stall on it.

So I ask: How is decapping a node not a problem? These builds are not used to defend home nodes (and AR would certainly help with that just as much), they are used to strip away your far node.

Just because people were not using it effectively in the past (when AR has been the same it is now), doesn’t mean we need to look elsewhere for the problem.

Does AR itself warrant being changed? Most certainly in my opinion. But that’s a different topic and certainly not the reason why “decap engis” will decap your node in 10s flat.

Guys…. i sometimes play engi decapper, and i dont even need AR to be succesfull. Yeh a good condition burst paired with a stunlock will take me down, but thats pretty much what happens to anyone.
What i’m saying is that AR is not the only problem. If played well, with the right spec a decapper can stay alive for a decent amount of time even 3v1 without AR.

I agree that the trait has not a good design, but its not even the only one. What we need is the chance to counter play them. A good step could be to put a casting time on air blast, maybe a 1/2 second, and increase the cooldown by 5 seconds.
Then we’ll see with the new patch… we might come up with a spec able to hold close point and counter them, that would be the best thing.

Slim.3024:

RaZaC.1963:

The fact that engineers decap quickly in a 1v1 is not a problem. They have been able to do this from the start of the game it was not a problem then. But since people have started to adopt builds where they abuse broken traits such as AR it has become a problem.

And AR has been in the game for as long as we can remember as well. I get the issues with AR in itself, but why are people insisting on making this about AR?

Do we call them “AR Engis”? No, we call them “decap engis”.

Whether their survivability is a result of overperforming traits or not is inconsequential, because we all know that just surviving on a node is something that can be done by many different builds. It’s only a problem if they can take a node from you at will and then stall on it.

So I ask: How is decapping a node not a problem? These builds are not used to defend home nodes (and AR would certainly help with that just as much), they are used to strip away your far node.

Just because people were not using it effectively in the past (when AR has been the same it is now), doesn’t mean we need to look elsewhere for the problem.

Does AR itself warrant being changed? Most certainly in my opinion. But that’s a different topic and certainly not the reason why “decap engis” will decap your node in 10s flat.

Let met refer you to my thread since I invested allot of time in explaining the exact problem there.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Decap-Engineer-In-Depth-Analysis/first

cuge.5398:

Guys…. i sometimes play engi decapper, and i dont even need AR to be succesfull. Yeh a good condition burst paired with a stunlock will take me down, but thats pretty much what happens to anyone.
What i’m saying is that AR is not the only problem. If played well, with the right spec a decapper can stay alive for a decent amount of time even 3v1 without AR.

I agree that the trait has not a good design, but its not even the only one. What we need is the chance to counter play them. A good step could be to put a casting time on air blast, maybe a 1/2 second, and increase the cooldown by 5 seconds.
Then we’ll see with the new patch… we might come up with a spec able to hold close point and counter them, that would be the best thing.

Nope. Doesn’t matter how good your condition + stunlock spike is. Not a single build is able to kill me in 1vs1.

Without AR there is a lot of counter-play für decap engineers.

Stop trying to nerf other things which will hurt many other engineer builds as well because you don’t want to lose this kitten trait.

I highly suggest only removing AR (or at least nerf ist) from the game. You’ll see decap engineers to disappear from the game.

RaZaC.1963:

The fact that engineers decap quickly in a 1v1 is not a problem. They have been able to do this from the start of the game it was not a problem then. But since people have started to adopt builds where they abuse broken traits such as AR it has become a problem.

This 100 times.

Mouby.7096:

Stop trying to nerf other things which will hurt many other engineer builds as well because you don’t want to lose this kitten trait.

What a load of horse crap.

I have yet to see anyone defending AR when talking about decap engineers. In fact, it’s very apparent that it’s a number of engineers who are trying to shift the focus away from the actual issue with DECAP engineers towards AR, which coincidentally is a counter to condi engineers.

It takes no degree in rocket science to understand that the issue with DECAP engineers is the DECAPPING.

If it was anything else, we’d not see decap engineers push far node 24/7 and call it a good investment even if they die in less than 20 seconds.

If it was anything else, we’d see other builds who can survive a lot of punishment pushing far instead.

If it was anything else, we’d see these very same engineers actually hold their home node, as holding a node is much easier than conquering a node, when you play a class that deals very low damage.

None of this is happening. Why? Because the fact that they survive as well as they do, regardless of why, is not what makes them strong to begin with and in fact would be completely useless, if they couldn’t make sure they are able to fight on a node that is neutral

It’s pretty much impossible to argue my posts on the matter, unless you have a hidden agenda and are trying to purposely divert from the actual problem.

RaZaC.1963:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Decap-Engineer-In-Depth-Analysis/first

I have read it and it’s the same old story.

You guys are arguing that AR is the problem with decap engineers, but mathematically speaking all you have to do is to survive on a neutral node for all of 20 seconds to make decapping a profitable endeavor.

Would you die in less than 20 seconds without AR? Definitely not.

Any other build could fight for a minute and never get a decap unless they kill the defender. In that scenario we’d consider the very same efforts a “waste of time”.

I haven’t read all these posts in here, but i would like to my 2 cents.

I personally always hate when I see a decap engi on the other team, I’m always close point be it my mesmer or trap ranger, but the actual decap build is a build at the end of the day you can nerf it you can buff it, players will always surpass expectations and push that build to the limit, the only thing you can do is practice against them.

I have faced them so many times I can last a long time holding the point most times, enough for my mate to come and give a hand.

No one has the right to ask for nerfs on their actual decap skill ability’s.

The one thing I think needs to be addressed is the trait that gives them immunity under 25%, now yes I know this is also part of their build, but passive traits like those will only be a bad thing in this game, especially passive immunity’s.

Asking for the build it’s self or the skills to be nerfd is the worst possible thing to do, decap engi is now a solid part of this game.

The pure passive immunity really need to be addressed.

Like I said I didn’t read all the posts in here, just my 2 cents.

Edit/ I am not against immunity skills, only passive ones for example if you fall under a certain percentage or above a certain percentage. Immunity skills should be only available through active means, I’m sure that can still be done through the trait system, but hey I just play the game.

Slim.3024:

RaZaC.1963:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Decap-Engineer-In-Depth-Analysis/first

I have read it and it’s the same old story.

You guys are arguing that AR is the problem with decap engineers, but mathematically speaking all you have to do is to survive on a neutral node for all of 20 seconds to make decapping a profitable endeavor.

Would you die in less than 20 seconds without AR? Definitely not.

Any other build could fight for a minute and never get a decap unless they kill the defender. In that scenario we’d consider the very same efforts a “waste of time”.

You obv don’t understand our point. You’re right in terms of other bunker-professions. They can for sure stay alive for a similar amount of time (even tho i doubt any profession can stay alive in a 1vs1 as long as a decap engineer).

It’s not about the raw survival, it’s about the combination of beeing invincible in a 1vs1 and still be able to decap and actually cap the point as well.

So there are basically two problems. If you reset one of the problems to zero, the whole thing will turn into zero (easy maths).

You’re now about to decide which problem you’re going to reset. Either the knockbacks and the ability to decap/cap a point, or the raw survival skill which makes you invincible in a 1vs1.

If you reset the second option (the durability) decap-engineers are going to die in a 1vs1 even tho they can maybe decap the point. So you don’t have to spend more than 1 guy of your own team (which is the real problem —> you’re getting outnumbered in any other fight) to go and kill the invading decap-engineer.

If you reset the first option (ability to decap) you’re basically destroying a core-feature of engineers. You’re literally killing many other engineer builds even tho it’s not necessary in any way.

So obviously you’re going to nerf the one and only option to get rid of (effective) decap engineers.

Yo,
i dont understand the hate about decap engi’s.
there are classes to counter them, just need to adjust build (warrior,ranger can do it)
then also when a power build harash ure close the bunker will need help 2.. so why wont it need help with a decap engi?

and for the AR… maybe u should get some power in ure build, and not stay spamming ure conditions from far away? and get some skill into pvp?

i know a few tactics to counter decap engi’s (i play one myself)..
and there not so hard to understand u will just need a good team setup and not run with randoms PUGS..

Djazz.4786:

Yo,
(i play one myself)..

Explains why you’re trying to protect this build.

As well as the fact you obviously can’t play anything but decap-engineer (regarding your own post on the forums). I’m sorry if this may sounds rude tho.

In your opinion there are builds countering decap-engineers. That’s obviously because you’re a bad one i guess.

No ranger or warrior is ever going to kill me (nothing is basically going to kill me in a 1vs1 if i play decap-engineer) or any other decent decap engineer.

If there are 2 ppl and you want a teammate to help you, you probably didn’t even understand the point of running a decap-engineer.

It’s not about 100% winning this point. It’s about giving your team a advantage in the other fights because they have to at least send two ppl going to kill you.

Djazz.4786:

Yo,
i dont understand the hate about decap engi’s.
there are classes to counter them, just need to adjust build (warrior,ranger can do it)
then also when a power build harash ure close the bunker will need help 2.. so why wont it need help with a decap engi?

and for the AR… maybe u should get some power in ure build, and not stay spamming ure conditions from far away? and get some skill into pvp?

i know a few tactics to counter decap engi’s (i play one myself)..
and there not so hard to understand u will just need a good team setup and not run with randoms PUGS..

^^^
I don’t see the problem with the decap engi either. It is easily countered with the correct team set up. A stability bunker guardian easily counters this with no problem. Most of the time on soloq I rarely see an engineer, possibly 25% of the time. If you run a build that is heavily dependent on conditions, has no access to stun breakers/stability/blinds and do not know when to time you’re dodges then of course you are going to lose.

Personally, it’s getting played out to complain about classes being OP. Sooo, Bunker Guardian, Hambow Warrior, Condi/Zoo Necro, S/D Thief, Mesmer, Zoo Ranger and Decap Engineer are OP? Thats basically every class excluding ele and even they can be strong.

The real decap engi is hard to beat as we currently only have one game mode that greatly benefits this build. The second factor that helps this build is that for SoloQ (and partly even TeamQ), the groups are just thrown together and therefore evidently lack the required amount of coordination to take down an engi.

We will see changes some time after the feature patch.
In the end it all boils down to adjusting AR.

Hachiman.2470:

^^^
I don’t see the problem with the decap engi either. It is easily countered with the correct team set up. A stability bunker guardian easily counters this with no problem.

You have bunker guardian build with access to stunbreakers/stability every 7.5 sec? Maybe you share it?

Mouby.7096:

Djazz.4786:

Yo,
(i play one myself)..

Explains why you’re trying to protect this build.

As well as the fact you obviously can’t play anything but decap-engineer (regarding your own post on the forums). I’m sorry if this may sounds rude tho.

In your opinion there are builds countering decap-engineers. That’s obviously because you’re a bad one i guess.

No ranger or warrior is ever going to kill me (nothing is basically going to kill me in a 1vs1 if i play decap-engineer) or any other decent decap engineer.

If there are 2 ppl and you want a teammate to help you, you probably didn’t even understand the point of running a decap-engineer.

It’s not about 100% winning this point. It’s about giving your team a advantage in the other fights because they have to at least send two ppl going to kill you.

^^
awesome xD
i can play other builds/classes now dont worry about that..
and a ranger can kill u.. there just not many who know how..!!
and u wont die 1vs1 but a good team counters that..
lets see u fight thief+necro or hambow+thief

and u may think i’m a bad decap engi thats fine… but try to get a stability warrior off his point with knockbacks?(they run constant stability dude common xD)
u can only do it if he makes a mistake.. he cant kill u (it will take time to kill him) but u wont get him off of the point…

RaZaC.1963:

@OP

The reason why people (including me) are focusing on AR is because its a trait that is fundamental to the success of a decap engineer. You cant nerf cc on engineers for your will hurt a lot of builds.

I honestly wonder if you ever fought a decap engineer without AR. People seem to forget that every class uses conditions and the condition immunity prevents any class from applying them. For allot of power based classes there are conditions such as cripple and immobilize which are critical for hitting their targets consistently. AR prevents both power and condi builds to get a grip on the engineer when it drops below 25% hp.

From my point of view one could do great things with this trait. It could be changed in many ways to help engineers against conditions (which are their greatest weakness in all builds (except decap))

Yes exactly. I wish anet would listen to this. Even warrior/dps guard/ele/mesmer are massively hindered by AR. They can’t set up their burst (immob). They can’t stop the engi kiting (cripple). They cant put on conditions which enable them to do more damage (guardian). They cant put on damaging condis to help them pressure a target (ele, mesmer, warrior).

Mouby.7096:

You obv don’t understand our point. You’re right in terms of other bunker-professions. They can for sure stay alive for a similar amount of time (even tho i doubt any profession can stay alive in a 1vs1 as long as a decap engineer).

It’s not about the raw survival, it’s about the combination of beeing invincible in a 1vs1 and still be able to decap and actually cap the point as well.

So there are basically two problems. If you reset one of the problems to zero, the whole thing will turn into zero (easy maths).

You’re now about to decide which problem you’re going to reset. Either the knockbacks and the ability to decap/cap a point, or the raw survival skill which makes you invincible in a 1vs1.

If you reset the second option (the durability) decap-engineers are going to die in a 1vs1 even tho they can maybe decap the point. So you don’t have to spend more than 1 guy of your own team (which is the real problem —> you’re getting outnumbered in any other fight) to go and kill the invading decap-engineer.

If you reset the first option (ability to decap) you’re basically destroying a core-feature of engineers. You’re literally killing many other engineer builds even tho it’s not necessary in any way.

So obviously you’re going to nerf the one and only option to get rid of (effective) decap engineers.

This exactly I mean if you really still do not understand how important AR is to the validity of your brain dead decap engineers then I do not know what will convince you.

Djazz.4786:

Yo,
i dont understand the hate about decap engi’s.
there are classes to counter them, just need to adjust build (warrior,ranger can do it)
then also when a power build harash ure close the bunker will need help 2.. so why wont it need help with a decap engi?

and for the AR… maybe u should get some power in ure build, and not stay spamming ure conditions from far away? and get some skill into pvp?

i know a few tactics to counter decap engi’s (i play one myself)..
and there not so hard to understand u will just need a good team setup and not run with randoms PUGS..

“YO…” sorry you almighty decap engie for not changing our builds and team setups because you run a broken build.

Your argument is that we spam conditions so AR is a valid trait? Seriously please consider posting something with substance before you respond to this thread again.

Hachiman.2470:

I don’t see the problem with the decap engi either. It is easily countered with the correct team set up. A stability bunker guardian easily counters this with no problem. Most of the time on soloq I rarely see an engineer, possibly 25% of the time. If you run a build that is heavily dependent on conditions, has no access to stun breakers/stability/blinds and do not know when to time you’re dodges then of course you are going to lose.

Personally, it’s getting played out to complain about classes being OP. Sooo, Bunker Guardian, Hambow Warrior, Condi/Zoo Necro, S/D Thief, Mesmer, Zoo Ranger and Decap Engineer are OP? Thats basically every class excluding ele and even they can be strong.

Once again, teams are not supposed to change their team-setup because you run a broken spec. No one right in their minds is going to put their guard on close to bunker vs a decap engineer, Guardians are supposed to be in the teamfights.

On not knowing how to time dodges, please take a look at your skills and look at the cast time of your cc ability’s. Ye take a close look, oh wait is there no cast time on them 0,o? Oh my random dodge skills I suppose. And unless these day’s there is a bunker thief on close node spamming black powder there is no class in the game that is going to prevent a decap with blinds.

Djazz.4786:

but try to get a stability warrior off his point with knockbacks?(they run constant stability dude common xD)
u can only do it if he makes a mistake.. he cant kill u (it will take time to kill him) but u wont get him off of the point…

Psst… I have something for you!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Mine
Don’t tell anyone!

So much facepalm in this thread

Superhoops.8956:

Yes exactly. I wish anet would listen to this. Even warrior/dps guard/ele/mesmer are massively hindered by AR. They can’t set up their burst (immob). They can’t stop the engi kiting (cripple). They cant put on conditions which enable them to do more damage (guardian). They cant put on damaging condis to help them pressure a target (ele, mesmer, warrior).

Happy to see some people agree. People pretend that conditions are only used by engineers, necros and rangers, but power professions need them just as bad for controlling their target.

Once again, teams are not supposed to change their team-setup because you run a broken spec. No one right in their minds is going to put their guard on close to bunker vs a decap engineer, Guardians are supposed to be in the teamfights.

On not knowing how to time dodges, please take a look at your skills and look at the cast time of your cc ability’s. Ye take a close look, oh wait is there no cast time on them 0,o? Oh my random dodge skills I suppose. And unless these day’s there is a bunker thief on close node spamming black powder there is no class in the game that is going to prevent a decap with blinds.

That is exactly what teams are supposed to do. You change your team-setup when you know you see that you are going against a certain team makeup.

A bunker guardian can guard home if you are going against decap…probably won’t be able to kill them but you can prevent the decap with shields/blinds/stability/stunbreakers. I have and play every class. They all have their really strong specs but there is always another class that has a counter. You stated one yourself, a bunker spam black powder thief can null a decaps cc’s.

Hachiman.2470:

Once again, teams are not supposed to change their team-setup because you run a broken spec. No one right in their minds is going to put their guard on close to bunker vs a decap engineer, Guardians are supposed to be in the teamfights.

On not knowing how to time dodges, please take a look at your skills and look at the cast time of your cc ability’s. Ye take a close look, oh wait is there no cast time on them 0,o? Oh my random dodge skills I suppose. And unless these day’s there is a bunker thief on close node spamming black powder there is no class in the game that is going to prevent a decap with blinds.

That is exactly what teams are supposed to do. You change your team-setup when you know you see that you are going against a certain team makeup.

A bunker guardian can guard home if you are going against decap…probably won’t be able to kill them but you can prevent the decap with shields/blinds/stability/stunbreakers. I have and play every class. They all have their really strong specs but there is always another class that has a counter. You stated one yourself, a bunker spam black powder thief can null a decaps cc’s.

Are you trolling me or are you actually suggesting a thief to hold a close point? And you are suggesting your most important teamfighter the guardian to hold a tea-party at one of the side nodes. Also I do not remember a functionality whereby one can preview the builds of the opposite team in team/soloque. Also, when you create your team people specialize in the classes they play. As a team you should be able to adept to the other team with your own setup without having to change it completely. Otherwise this means we are all playing rock paper scissors which is becoming more and more a think unfortunately.

The ignorance in this thread… Are NON decap engis problematic in ANY meta? No? Then why suggest nerfs that have nothing to do with them? Why suggest nerfs to CC or healing or anything else that ISN’T AR?

The problem straight up is AR. Without AR decap engis will not survive as long as they do. AR only really benefits decapping bunker engi builds.

Slim.3024:

Do we call them “AR Engis”? No, we call them “decap engis”.

Wow, you’re going by this argument? Seriously? The popular nomenclature is your argument?!?

Also, AR on any engi that doesn’t have high health won’t get nearly as much benefit as one with high health/toughness. The 25% health limitation scales up with how much health you have. That’s obvious. So any engi that isn’t bunkerish won’t get much use out of AR because they can still get condispiked easily.

So THAT’S why not every build using AR is problematic, only the bunker builds. And that’s why you can’t say it’s all “AR engis” that are problematic". It’s the AR + Bunker engis = aka “decap engis” that are the problem. Got any more ridiculous arguments?

isolatedchimp.2510:

The ignorance in this thread… Are NON decap engis problematic in ANY meta? No? Then why suggest nerfs that have nothing to do with them? Why suggest nerfs to CC or healing or anything else that ISN’T AR?

The problem straight up is AR. Without AR decap engis will not survive as long as they do. AR only really benefits decapping bunker engi builds.

Slim.3024:

Do we call them “AR Engis”? No, we call them “decap engis”.

Wow, you’re going by this argument? Seriously? The popular nomenclature is your argument?!?

Also, AR on any engi that doesn’t have high health won’t get nearly as much benefit as one with high health/toughness. The 25% health limitation scales up with how much health you have. That’s obvious. So any engi that isn’t bunkerish won’t get much use out of AR because they can still get condispiked easily.

So THAT’S why not every build using AR is problematic, only the bunker builds. And that’s why you can’t say it’s all “AR engis” that are problematic". It’s the AR + Bunker engis = aka “decap engis” that are the problem. Got any more ridiculous arguments?

AR ist the only weapon the engi has against other condi classes. You say the engi has no Problem in the meta. The truth is engi has a very bad day against all other condi classes. Without AR a condi necro, warrior, mesmer vor condi engi is very very hard to beat in 1vs1. You should see the complete picture before you nerf engi. I do not like AR. But nerfing it without buffing the condition removal in engi is not a good way

Lupanic.6502:

isolatedchimp.2510:

The ignorance in this thread… Are NON decap engis problematic in ANY meta? No? Then why suggest nerfs that have nothing to do with them? Why suggest nerfs to CC or healing or anything else that ISN’T AR?

The problem straight up is AR. Without AR decap engis will not survive as long as they do. AR only really benefits decapping bunker engi builds.

Slim.3024:

Do we call them “AR Engis”? No, we call them “decap engis”.

Wow, you’re going by this argument? Seriously? The popular nomenclature is your argument?!?

Also, AR on any engi that doesn’t have high health won’t get nearly as much benefit as one with high health/toughness. The 25% health limitation scales up with how much health you have. That’s obvious. So any engi that isn’t bunkerish won’t get much use out of AR because they can still get condispiked easily.

So THAT’S why not every build using AR is problematic, only the bunker builds. And that’s why you can’t say it’s all “AR engis” that are problematic". It’s the AR + Bunker engis = aka “decap engis” that are the problem. Got any more ridiculous arguments?

AR ist the only weapon the engi has against other condi classes. You say the engi has no Problem in the meta. The truth is engi has a very bad day against all other condi classes. Without AR a condi necro, warrior, mesmer vor condi engi is very very hard to beat in 1vs1. You should see the complete picture before you nerf engi. I do not like AR. But nerfing it without buffing the condition removal in engi is not a good way

And that is why engineer is the class with the highest skillcap (besides elementalist). I do not run AR yet the past months I’ve played with my team in the top 100. It is very hard to beat the classes/builds you named, but do not pretend you are running AR to survive against those classes in order to win a 1v1. AR is worthless unless you have enough HP + HP/sec which you only find in X/X/30/30/X. Running AR with 30/0/0/30/10 for example if worthless because 25% translates in 4.1k HP with an upkeep of like 400 HP a sec (backpackregen + normalregen). And that is without being poisoned.

Broken traits will be broken and should be changed. AR could actually be changed in a positive way that involves skill or at least helps out a brother spectrum of engineers against pure condi burst builds without it being broken to the point that it ruins the game for people and the game mode itself.

running decap engi same as trolling just ignore them and cap their home instead :P