Guild Wars 2

Hello,

Now I’ve been playing since release. I’ve played just about each class and I spectate a lot, especially in the fight club. I’ve been doing pvping in games for years. I was heavy into the pvp in gw1 and WoW to name the more popular ones.

Now the main point of this post is to point out why some defensive mechanics that this game has fail for the most part and why they may have been the cause of pvp in this game not looked upon in the gaming community as competitive or popular. Now as many of the pvpers from other games that I talk to have said, this ship has sailed. Much of this game is designed around these things and I don’t fully expect them to change much of it. I also understand that many people wont agree with me. I’m not saying I’m right and everyone else is wrong, but I can’t help but there is a reason this game’s pvp fell on its face and I tried to compile the common complaints I hear.

1. Blinds- Blinds only way to remove is condi and wasting an attack. Condi removal is on long cooldowns for the most part, applying blinds usually isn’t. Wasting attack= spamming. Lowers skill floor and ceiling because of this. Hard to counter, easy to apply.

2. Aegis- Only way to remove is stripping boons and wasting an attack. Boon stripping is not very widely used in the current meta and is usually on a long CD or has a large skill punishment. Very few skills are unblockable and in the meta.

3. Blocking- same as aegis but with the only counter being unlockable skills.

4. Evading- Probably the worst of the bunch. No counter to evade skills. Character model promote advantage. Personally I think Vigor is a horrific boon that does nothing for this game. I also don’t think any weapons should be able to evade while attacking. Any class that relies on evades to survive is poorly designed in my eyes because the evade system lowers entertainment value, skill floor, and skill ceiling.

5. Stealth- No counter, easy to apply, easy to spam. Again lowers entertainment value, skill floor, and skill ceiling. Stealth system in this game is one of the worst I’ve seen in all my years of gaming. Planetside 2, Teamfortress, WoW, every MMO, they all have counters to stealth and no class relies on stealth to surviving in fights. I understand how heavily some classes do rely on it and I think they should be reworked. The whole combofield for smoke being rework would be a step in the right direction. Smoke fields are way too strong currently.

6. AoE- AoE is way too strong in this game, especially for conquest. Classes apply it way too easily. It lowers the skill floor tremendously, lowers the skill ceiling, and clutters up the UI causing a lower in entertainment value.

7. AI. AI is good, if theres micro managing involved. MM is something that is requried for games that utilize AI because they raise skill floor, ceiling, and entertainment value. Games like MOBAs who contain AI often required a good amount of micromanagment. This game doesn’t have a lot. They follow you around and are one button wonders.

Those six points are often ones brought up by the PvPers I know from other games on why they can’t get into Gw2. Like I said in the first paragrahp I really don’t expect these things to change, I just hope that they work towards making them less…prevalent.

I don’t really agree with all the things you say, how is a combat system where every attack hits its target more skill-based? O.o And those “wasted attacks” you talk about, you can just use your #1 weapon skill to get rid of aegis and blind, usually at least :P

The Kurt.2518:

I don’t really agree with all the things you say, how is a combat system where every attack hits its target more skill-based? O.o And those “wasted attacks” you talk about, you can just use your #1 weapon skill to get rid of aegis and blind, usually at least :P

It’s not just every attack that hits your target. Here are some things I’ve noted from looking at competitive gaming.

1. Counters. Usually everything has a counter in some way.

2. Skill shots. Skill shots are very popular. They required a higher skill floor which in term makes the game a bit more competitve and entertaining to watch. Seeing somebody land an amazing skill shot is always awesome.

3. AoEs that aren’t just circles. Very few games have an abundance of AoEs. Not saying they don’t have any, however they have a lot less than Gw2 does.

4. Adaption. Players needing to adapt based on whats going on in the game provides a higher skill floor, ceiling, and entertainment value. Gw2 has some adaption, but it is not a lot. not nearly close to what is needed for it to be successful as a PvP game. Watch the combos and skill rotations of players, especially in duels. It is mostly the same each time, they don’t really change it up too much.

Deified.7520:

the evade system lowers entertainment value, skill floor, and skill ceiling.

lololol

I’m pretty sure this is a troll. Worse than my troll attempts.

If this is not a troll, it should be evident to every person ever why nothing constructive happens in this section.

So you play MM necro and say that you hate thieves. Nice block of text to hide it. :P

DanyK.3842:

So you play MM necro and say that you hate thieves. Nice block of text to hide it. :P

MM=micromanagement sorry. Not minion master.

1.&2. Single blinds and blocks that only have a noticeable effect if they are well timed are good design and require skill to be used efficently imo. I agree tho that spammable blinds/aegis (pu mesmer, blind fields fe) can be too effective when used randomly in many situations.

4. The ability to dodge important attacks is great basically but i think that vigor áccess and and evades on skills are too much in many situations. Id rather have them towned down to a point where you only have the option to dodge less often than now and at the same time passive procs, autoattacks and cooldowns on strong skills adjusted in a way that you do not have to randomdodge permanently to avoid dmg. So using your fewer evades well would greatly increase your survivability still but randomdodging would lead to not being able to evade the important stuff anymore.

6. Agree, spamming aoe onto a point has a too great effect and is probably one of the reason we have acces to enough evades and blinds to use them randomly.

7. Agree, having AI following you around and killing people for you on their own isnt great in pve, their focus should be more moved towards micromanaging and using their active abilities.

DoYourBestBear.6810:

I’m pretty sure this is a troll. Worse than my troll attempts.

If this is not a troll, it should be evident to every person ever why nothing constructive happens in this section.

It is more complicated than that. It is not about those mechanics existing, it is about the accessibility of those mechanics relative to the cast time and number of high impact skills. At least in regards to block, blind and dodging. This ratio is seriously F’d up on both sides which devolves the game into spamming.

Stealth I agree, Gw2 has the worst iteration of stealth I have ever seen.

Deified.7520:

Hello,

Now I’ve been playing since release. I’ve played just about each class and I spectate a lot, especially in the fight club. I’ve been doing pvping in games for years. I was heavy into the pvp in gw1 and WoW to name the more popular ones.

Now the main point of this post is to point out why some defensive mechanics that this game has fail for the most part and why they may have been the cause of pvp in this game not looked upon in the gaming community as competitive or popular. Now as many of the pvpers from other games that I talk to have said, this ship has sailed. Much of this game is designed around these things and I don’t fully expect them to change much of it. I also understand that many people wont agree with me. I’m not saying I’m right and everyone else is wrong, but I can’t help but there is a reason this game’s pvp fell on its face and I tried to compile the common complaints I hear.

1. Blinds- Blinds only way to remove is condi and wasting an attack. Condi removal is on long cooldowns for the most part, applying blinds usually isn’t. Wasting attack= spamming. Lowers skill floor and ceiling because of this. Hard to counter, easy to apply.

2. Aegis- Only way to remove is stripping boons and wasting an attack. Boon stripping is not very widely used in the current meta and is usually on a long CD or has a large skill punishment. Very few skills are unblockable and in the meta.

3. Blocking- same as aegis but with the only counter being unlockable skills.

4. Evading- Probably the worst of the bunch. No counter to evade skills. Character model promote advantage. Personally I think Vigor is a horrific boon that does nothing for this game. I also don’t think any weapons should be able to evade while attacking. Any class that relies on evades to survive is poorly designed in my eyes because the evade system lowers entertainment value, skill floor, and skill ceiling.

5. Stealth- No counter, easy to apply, easy to spam. Again lowers entertainment value, skill floor, and skill ceiling. Stealth system in this game is one of the worst I’ve seen in all my years of gaming. Planetside 2, Teamfortress, WoW, every MMO, they all have counters to stealth and no class relies on stealth to surviving in fights. I understand how heavily some classes do rely on it and I think they should be reworked. The whole combofield for smoke being rework would be a step in the right direction. Smoke fields are way too strong currently.

6. AoE- AoE is way too strong in this game, especially for conquest. Classes apply it way too easily. It lowers the skill floor tremendously, lowers the skill ceiling, and clutters up the UI causing a lower in entertainment value.

7. AI. AI is good, if theres micro managing involved. MM is something that is requried for games that utilize AI because they raise skill floor, ceiling, and entertainment value. Games like MOBAs who contain AI often required a good amount of micromanagment. This game doesn’t have a lot. They follow you around and are one button wonders.

Those six points are often ones brought up by the PvPers I know from other games on why they can’t get into Gw2. Like I said in the first paragrahp I really don’t expect these things to change, I just hope that they work towards making them less…prevalent.

Personally i disagree with all points except 6, and maybe 5.

1 – Blind, “wasting” your skill 1 instead of some really important skills isnt really lowering the skillcap, its actually doing the opposite. Its not hard to counter at all.

2 – same

3 – just wait 2,3 seconds and attack again

4 – evading is a really cool idea imo, the problem is how it was implemented in the whole system. Having its own resource bar that its just used for dodging and being able to refil it through vigor / traits and sigils isnt much good.

5 – Oh well, i agree that thieves shouldnt be relying so much around stealthing, and that stealth should be a group utility / positioning tool, but in such a dynamic combat i think it can hardly be different, thieves can choose to spam evades to survive or use stealth, otherwise they are just squishy warriors.

6 – agree, totally. Having like 90% of skills AoE or cleaving is just bad and promotes spam on point. Maybe could be less a problem in a team deathmatch.

7 – AI is not good, at all, it doesnt raise skill floor, it just add more mess to the fight and promote passive play.

I know they wont remove these mechanics and they’re fun mechanics. However, I would like to see them spammed less. Personally I think that classes should only get the ability to evade through dodges, no weapon skills. Then vigor should be 1/4th of its application rate of what it is now. Many of these mechanics like blinds, aegis, and blocks can be fine if only they weren’t so prevalent in the meta. Blocking is not as bad, but I think blinds and aegis are applied way too much. Thieves, engineers, guardians, etc. All classes do it to too much of an extent.

Vigor needs to go, so does perma evasion from skills (thief sword and shortbow, ranger gs 1).

Spammable perma evasion takes so much skill out of the game, it makes my eyes cry.

If you wanna complain about defensive abilities then complain about the brainless traits that procc invulnerability at a certain player health.

Deified.7520:

Hello,

Now I’ve been playing since release. I’ve played just about each class and I spectate a lot, especially in the fight club. I’ve been doing pvping in games for years. I was heavy into the pvp in gw1 and WoW to name the more popular ones.

1. Blinds- Blinds only way to remove is condi and wasting an attack. Condi removal is on long cooldowns for the most part, applying blinds usually isn’t. Wasting attack= spamming. Lowers skill floor and ceiling because of this. Hard to counter, easy to apply.

2. Aegis- Only way to remove is stripping boons and wasting an attack. Boon stripping is not very widely used in the current meta and is usually on a long CD or has a large skill punishment. Very few skills are unblockable and in the meta.

3. Blocking- same as aegis but with the only counter being unlockable skills.

4. Evading- Probably the worst of the bunch. No counter to evade skills. Character model promote advantage. Personally I think Vigor is a horrific boon that does nothing for this game. I also don’t think any weapons should be able to evade while attacking. Any class that relies on evades to survive is poorly designed in my eyes because the evade system lowers entertainment value, skill floor, and skill ceiling.

So instead lets jus give our selves a block % parry % dodge% like other games…
no go back to warcraft lol

the defense mechanics are active, raising skill cap.. u see someone using a move u want to block (like earthshaker or something) and u throw out an aegis or a blind while their mid cast